A rant: victim blaming/criticizing -- CO shootings

[thefragile7393]

:iagree:

 

:iagree::iagree: My beef is not with the fact that they took two children to a midnight showing of a movie regardless of my feelings about it (which may very well stem from the fact that my kids would freak out at such a violent movie and there is no one I could leave them with so I could go by myself). My beef is with the cowardly way the father handled the situation. Yes, I know unless presented in a fight or flight situation we would never know what we'd do but I do know I'd never leave my children behind (I was at a hotel on vacation once when the fire alarms went off in the middle of the night. I grabbed my then four and two year old sleeping children and got out. I didn't think to save myself, the only thing going through my mind was "get them out, get them out, GET THEM OUT!!" I didn't even wait to see if my husband was following me. I saw that he was awake and that was good enough for me. He is a big boy and could carry his own butt down the stairs, my babies needed me).

 

The mother took a piece of shrapnel to the leg getting her daughter out of the way, she felt a bit of comfort (IMO) at the fact that she knew her son was with his father and she assumed he was taking care of him. Meanwhile the father has a crying baby in his arms and is worried that the crying is going to draw attention to him and get him shot so he puts the infant down on the floor, jumps the balcony, gets out of the theater, into his car, and drives away (whether to a store or to his house, I don't know) and doesn't come back until after all the victims are out of the theater and the mom finds a phone to call him. At some point in between getting out of the theater and driving away he should've thought about his family and at least stayed nearby.

 

I do think the news article about them should've read "father gets castrated when mom finds out he abandoned his child to save his sorry butt." At least, that's how it would've read had it been my child on the ground.

:iagree: I know fear makes us do horrible things sometimes. But....no. just no.

[lionfamily1999]

I feel for all of the victims and their families, but yes the 6 year old strikes me a bit more, as I can see my sweet nephews (6 and 7) being all googly eyed over getting to go to a midnight showing of a movie they were excited about.

DH has a theory that most men have at one time or another sat around in a bank or similar setting and thought "How would I stop an armed robbery here?" when reliving their childhood superhero fantasy days.

Of course, he also thinks a fair number of men have also planned out a similar robbery while sitting there reliving their childhood cops and robbers/Jesse James fantasies.

 

I didn't mean those that fantasize, I mean those that disparaged these victims, because if they had been there they would have saved the planet.

 

I think most people fantasize about heroics to some extent.

 

And yes, my sons would have been awed by the idea of a midnight premier. I just can't imagine the impact of this.

[Murphy101]

I think the moronic impact will be some hysterical people claiming we now need metal detectors to enter the movies. :/

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I didn't mean those that fantasize, I mean those that disparaged these victims, because if they had been there they would have saved the planet.

 

I think most people fantasize about heroics to some extent.

 

And yes, my sons would have been awed by the idea of a midnight premier. I just can't imagine the impact of this.

 

I think the little fantasies some people concoct is why they start disparaging others. "Well, *I* would have _____________!" Because , ya know, they have thought it out and all.:tongue_smilie:

[lionfamily1999]

I think the little fantasies some people concoct is why they start disparaging others. "Well, *I* would have _____________!" Because , ya know, they have thought it out and all.:tongue_smilie:

 

I agree. Perhaps it is delusions of grandeur or a loss of reality. I would love to be a hero and I have fantasies, but if people just escaped death I withold my what my epic response in my little world would have been, ya know?

[Audrey]

If anyone/anything is to blame it is the gun culture that only serves to perpetuate such vileness despite their many ridiculous protests to the contrary.

 

The murderer bought everything legally.

 

I find it very hard to muster sympathy when the natural consequence of a gunlusting culture occurs and yet people still rush to defend their "right" to own as many guns as they please.

 

I used to live in a state where one of the most commonly sighted bumper stickers was: "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hand."

 

Well quite. :glare:

[misidawnrn]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?" Or, "what kind of mother would bring a baby to a movie at midnight?"

 

A woman was raped in her apartment near here last week. She was studying in her own home with her window open on a stuffy summer night. I was sickened by the number of critical comments in our papers: "doesn't she know she shouldn't keep her window open at night?" or "why didn't she own a gun if she wants to live alone?"

 

These are people who have been terrorized and traumatized by violent criminals. Save the cold criticism for a later time, please.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Jenny in Florida]

yes - and as the mother of a six year old, and a three year old, you have lots of experience in that dept.

 

Does it matter that I agree with her? And mine are 17 and 14?

[Jenny in Florida]

If anyone/anything is to blame it is the gun culture that only serves to perpetuate such vileness despite their many ridiculous protests to the contrary.

 

The murderer bought everything legally.

 

Agreed, except that I think the lion's share of the blame still has to go to the actual shooter.

 

I do have sympathy for the victims, though, knowing that many of them are probably just as mystified and saddened by our violent culture as I am. And I have sympathy for anyone grieving a loved one, even if that loved one was lost due to questionable choices and maybe some less-than-stellar judgement.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

If anyone/anything is to blame it is the gun culture that only serves to perpetuate such vileness despite their many ridiculous protests to the contrary.

 

The murderer bought everything legally.

 

I find it very hard to muster sympathy when the natural consequence of a gunlusting culture occurs and yet people still rush to defend their "right" to own as many guns as they please.

 

I used to live in a state where one of the most commonly sighted bumper stickers was: "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hand."

 

Well quite. :glare:

 

Yeah, I mean this never happens in countries with tighter gun control laws. Well, other than Canada. Or Norway. Or the Netherlands. Shall I go on?

[sewingmama]

Here in Utah a 100 year old tombstone fell over in a cemetery and crushed a 4 year old to death a few weeks ago. With his parents less than 3 feet away. It was nothing more than a horrible accident with an old piece of stone collapsing. Nobody even touched the darn thing. Your child is at risk every day....no matter what you do.

 

Yeah - and I remember reading the comments after the article and they were very similar to the shooting comments - "What kind of parents let their 4yo play in a graveyard?" "Why did the dad let the kid run wild?" and "That would never happen to my kid because I taught them to respect graves by not playing on them"..

 

Nevermind that the Dad was there taking photos of another family and his son was not running wild - just simply standing behind the tombstone that fell on him when he leaned on it. :glare:

 

 

IMO -I wish that all children in this world should have such a wonderful life that the worst thing that ever happened to them was their parents kept them up late to watch a Batman movie :glare:

[Lisa R.]

 

I find it very hard to muster sympathy when the natural consequence of a gunlusting culture occurs and yet people still rush to defend their "right" to own as many guns as they please.

 

:

 

To clarify: You seem to be saying you do not have sympathy for the Colorado victims and their families because they live in a country where people can buy guns.

 

While I disagree that this is a natural consequence of a country whose citizens own guns, I don't wish to debate that here.

 

I'm shocked at your comment and hope you were misunderstood.

[kalanamak]

 

It's basic psychology though--blaming the victim. If you think you can find a reason it happened to someone else and that they brought it on themselves, it makes you feel like you are more in control and it can't happen to you.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[kalanamak]

I don't believe in blaming the victim either. BUT have you read the story of the parents that had the young child and baby with them? The dad somehow put the baby on the floor by the stairs and ran out of the theater, leaving his fiancée, daughter and baby son to fend for themselves. He actually drove away according to his story.

 

People do panic. When I had a gun pointed at me I tried to climb the wall of a room, leaping up helplessly, the way a cat might in a panic when a dog is let in the room. It wasn't one of my finest moments.

[clarkacademy]

All this is causing is another thing to use against gun owners. That isn't fair. I do not own a gun but if I wanted too I should be able too. It is not responsible peoples faults that this guy was an idiot. By saying people shouldn't be able to buy a gun goes against alot of things. That statement could be said for anything.

 

The lady down the street had a dog who bit a kid should their be no dogs?

[lionfamily1999]

Passing laws in the hope of preventing criminals from performing criminal acts is self-defeating. Sure he bought the stuff legally. He murdered twenty people. I don't see how tougher laws would have prevented him. He was plotting to break a multitude of laws.

[kalanamak]

To clarify: You seem to be saying you do not have sympathy for the Colorado victims and their families because they live in a country where people can buy guns.

 

 

I didn't read that at all.

[Mrs Mungo]

Passing laws in the hope of preventing criminals from performing criminal acts is self-defeating. Sure he bought the stuff legally. He murdered twenty people. I don't see how tougher laws would have prevented him. He was plotting to break a multitude of laws.

 

If assault weapons and tear gas were illegal (and they are in some states, so that is *not* actually a constitutional issue), then where would a troubled white academian go to get it? Could they be obtained? Sure. Would it be more difficult? Yes. Would it give a reason to the FBI or DHS to track those weapons and/or people? Yes.

 

Do I believe all guns should be illegal? Nope, we own guns. Do I think some gun control is reasonable? Yes, I do.

[lionfamily1999]

If assault weapons and tear gas were illegal (and they are in some states, so that is *not* actually a constitutional issue), then where would a troubled white academian go to get it? Could they be obtained? Sure. Would it be more difficult? Yes. Would it give a reason to the FBI or DHS to track those weapons and/or people? Yes.

 

Do I believe all guns should be illegal? Nope, we own guns. Do I think some gun control is reasonable? Yes, I do.

 

I don't know where they could get it, because I am not a criminal interested in getting guns on the low down. I do not know where to get meth, heroine, or snuff p**n either, but I am aware that regardless of how illegal they are criminals still get them. I don't know how to find an assassin, but it seems like people intending to break the law do.

 

All the same, the FBI and DHS have had some woopsies lately in their handling of illegal weapons. I'm not sure I believe that they would be able to keep those weapons out of the hands of criminals or to keep the law abiding citizens safe while they manage to get the weapons back.

[funschooler5]

If assault weapons and tear gas were illegal (and they are in some states, so that is *not* actually a constitutional issue), then where would a troubled white academian go to get it? Could they be obtained? Sure. Would it be more difficult? Yes. Would it give a reason to the FBI or DHS to track those weapons and/or people? Yes.

 

Do I believe all guns should be illegal? Nope, we own guns. Do I think some gun control is reasonable? Yes, I do.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't understand why we need to protect an individual's right to carry military-grade weapons. IMO they should be in the hands of military and police officers only. What is the reasoning behind keeping them legal? (I'm talking about assault weapons only). Is it because people are afraid that they'll have to give up *all* of their guns if these types of weapons are restricted?

[lionfamily1999]

 

I don't understand why we need to protect an individual's right to carry military-grade weapons. IMO they should be in the hands of military and police officers only. What is the reasoning behind keeping them legal? (I'm talking about assault weapons only). Is it because people are afraid that they'll have to give up *all* of their guns if these types of weapons are restricted?

From my pov you should never hand over your rights. Those we know who do own military-grade weapons have them for a few different reasons, none of which include attacking fellow citizens. Some collect them. One person has an incredible arsenal of weapons in good working order that he keeps and cares for as a hobby, his collection is bigger than anyone else among our friends. Some keep them in case of war or invasion. Laugh if you want, but after 2001 many of our friends "geared up" just in case. Some keep them, because they believe that our right to bear arms was couched in the idea that our government should never be powerful enough to subjugate us like the monarchy did. They have their weapons, because they feel it is our responsibilty to have those weapons. And then there are those that like to shoot them. They enjoy the guns recreationally.

 

After what has happened we are looking into getting a gun. I am interested in classes to get a concealed carry license. No machine guns here, but I believe the new year will find us armed.

[Mom2Es]

and considering the guy was wearing riot gear, gas mask, and a bullet proof vest - don't know that someone with a cc would have done much.

 

For what it's worth, those reports were not correct (which is not uncommon for news reports in the first few hours after an event like this). The company he ordered the gear from said that what he bought was a vest designed for carrying lots of items rather than for protection. It was not bullet-proof.