JenniferB Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 A common saying in my church is that the church is a "hospital," which means it's there to aid the healing of our souls. It sounds like these activities, and the interactions with this elder are having the opposite effect. I don't really have any advice, maybe just a word of encouragement to take care of yourself, body and soul, even if it means finding a new "hospital." :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Jo Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Have you tried being VERY blunt? Some people need it in black & white, no doubts allowed. And no, I've never been pressured like that in church. If my "no" was ignored and I was being pressured, I would quietly leave the church and find a closer one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 No way. Spending time at home with your family and your sanity is WAY more important than silly church activities. Don't feel guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphabetika Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Stop trying to reason with him; your reasons are not important to him. What I would do is go over his head in church leadership and let someone know they need to tell him to back off, they are going to lose your family if he keeps it up, and you are doing all you can to participate. :iagree:Don't put up with it. Participation in activities should always be optional, even if you lived next door to the church and were in perfect health. I'm sorry this is happening to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I hate that kind of stuff. :-p You gotta look that guy right in the eyeball and say "NO." No explanations, because it doesnt' matter why you aren't going, and when you give him more information, he just has more stuff to argue you with you about. Just say NO, and walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Some people give off the vibe that they are unsure, when they really are trying to be polite. But it sounds like you are being very direct. After the first follow asking 'if we are sure', I would be blunt and say 'Guilt is not going to make me change my mind'. Also I might use 'there is a line between wanting people to feel included and pressure and I am starting to feel pressure." Is there any activity that you can organize on your own turf and make them come to you. Then if it is too much work for them, you could say "are you sure you won't change your mind?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphabetika Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Sometimes the parents in the other homeschooling family make comments that reveal they feel pressured too, but they will never say anything for fear of hurting this elders' feelings. Like us, they don't attend a lot of the activities. When we agree to attend or have our Dc play the piano at a church event, I have heard this man use our attendance to pressure them. I was shocked when they agreed to this entire weekend. They also commit to VBS for the entire 2 weeks every year. :glare: Hmmm.....reading this part of your situation makes me wonder....is it possible he has some issues with homeschooling? I ask this because we had a bad situation in our former church in which the two leaders of children's ministry (married couple) were very opposed to homeschooling and weren't afraid to show it. But rather than talking to us directly (most of the time), they'd do things like, Call dd over to them (she was 7/8 at the time) and say, loudly enough so we could hear, "When are your parents going to LET YOU start coming on Wednesday nights? It's really fun and you could be around other kids...blah, blah, blah......" When I confronted one of them and explained that dd didn't WANT to come on Wednesday nights, I was met with much skepticism. Just a thought - even if it's subconscious, maybe he has a teensy little bit of wrong thinking about how many homeschoolers are satisfied and content in their own families, and when they do extra activities it's truly by choice, not because they're seeking social contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Wow. "No." is a complete sentence. :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoamiracle Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 You owe no explanation. "I am sorry, but we won't be able to attend". Repeat, repeat, repeat. I have these issues too, and am learning that when you tire out the family, the spiritual value is lost. We drive to church, we spend great effort to go to church, we make no excuses to miss church... Extra (non-service) events for the church? Nope! :D We only go when we all want to. :iagree: If it's not worship it's extra and who can have the energy for all of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I would be wary. A church that expected that much of my family's time would seem, to me, to be about controlling my family. It may be nothing but I was just feeling a little icky reading your post. :iagree: At first I thought maybe this person was trying to be friendly, but if he keeps inviting after you have explained why it does not work for you then there must be something else going on. If it were me, I would find a new church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I hate that kind of stuff. :-p You gotta look that guy right in the eyeball and say "NO." No explanations, because it doesnt' matter why you aren't going, and when you give him more information, he just has more stuff to argue you with you about. Just say NO, and walk away. :iagree: If the guy still persists in trying to recruit the OP, then socially he is dim-witted or dense. Not the OP's issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 His pressure may come from a good place. He enjoys spending time with your family and with a small congregation, the more kids the more fun they'll all have. I wouldnt quit, church-hop, or go over his head without explaining to him how tense his constant pressure makes you feel. I don't know him, but he might think of his pushiness as being a welcoming host. He might want you to feel wanted there. KWIM? If he's a single man, he has no clue about family pressure and HE has tons of time to dream up activities. HE doesn't understand early bedtimes or the stress of shuttling kids to and fro. If your own son was in this position, how would you want an older woman to spell it out for him? If nobody explains it, he won't get it until he has kids of his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 We're back from the youth event at church. I appreciate the responses. It's late so I'll post an update tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrigg Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Unfortunately, I'm very familiar with exactly that situation it seems. Happened all through my teen years until I was married. I would be practically killing myself to be doing everything above and beyond sunday service. I finally just had to stop cold turkey and I mean everything. I'm not saying you have to do this by any means but it's want ended up happening with me. Unfortunately, some people no matter how direct you are with them will not change the way they approach things. You could try: Having your DH talk to him or My hubby and I learned a new trick resently that makes the "pushers" in our lives take a step back use the phrase...."Are you trying to make me feel guilty?" in a calm matter of fact voice. It makes people stoy and think about how they are coming across and wording things. or Finding a new church maybe closer to home if it's what your family wants. Whatever you do, good luck and don't let the pushers get to you. Maybe even do morning services in your own home just as a peaceful calming study before approaching the situation just to put a little space and a cooling off period before you do anything. Sounds like you really love your home church especially to drive so far one way with gas prices soo high in rush hour traffice with lots of kids.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsJewelsRae Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I don't think it is right or healthy for the church or a family to have such an emphasis on youth group and business. I would not bend to the pressure, would not tolerate it and would be looking for a new church if it continued. Honestly, I wonder how long before the youth pastor or elder starts to pressure your kids, going behind your back for your kids to pressure you. They may also make your kids feel alienated and persecuted for not attending every little thing- I would be on the watch for this, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 From a pastor's wife who has spent the past 12 years being a minister's wife of some sort (dh has done youth ministry, family/children's ministry, etc)... Just say no. That is all you tell the elder. Then speak with the Senior Pastor. I know my dh would want to know about this kind of thing and would put a quick stop to it. Don't assume this is "church policy" iykwim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Have you said, "No. Please stop asking me." Some people really need it spelled out bluntly. I agree with having your DH talk to him and/or talking to the next person up the totem pole if that doesn't work. From your description it sounds like he is just clueless and an "ask-er"/salesman type personality. He probably just needs a very clear boundary drawn and an occassional reminder that he is crossing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbt1294 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have not read anyones post. I'm just responding to the OP. THIS WOULD DRIVE ME CRAZY!!!! And I'm a pastor's wife. I was giving my dh grief this afternoon about the church scheduling a churchwide cookout on the 4th of July! That has always been a fun family time with my sister's and their kids and the lake and I'm NOT going to the church function. I'm sorry this guys is pressuring you like this. It reminds me of a lady that stalks me at our church. She is about my age and she basically said that she wanted to be my best friend as soon as we got the the chruch 4 years ago. RED FLAG!!!! CRAZY PERSON!!!! It drives her crazy that I don't want to hang out with her all of the time. I Have 7 kids and I homeschool them. I don't live in the "same"world that she does. It sounds like this dude doesn't have a CLUE either!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 I wanted to add to what I posted yesterday. I should have mentioned that Dh has been handling the elder for the most part. A while ago we decided that I would just send him to Dh every time he starts to pressure. Dh has told him that I suffer greatly if I do too much b/c of my health and also that I help other family members besides homeschooling. The problem is this elder pressures me when I take the kids to choir which starts while Dh is still at work. Last night we ended up staying until 10:30 b/c they decided to wait until later to have the kids practice the round our youth choir has been working on. Our kids wanted to stay. Dh, Dc and I thought the message given was very good, but to be honest it is nothing our Dc haven't heard during our own Bible study at home. The activity ended up being kick ball and there really wasn't much of an opportunity for the kids to mingle with kids from other churches. The point of this weekend was supposed to be fellowship with other Christian kids who share similar beliefs. Also confusing to me were the repeated salvation messages. It made me wonder if the other churches made it an outreach and brought a lot of kids who aren't truly a part of their church. I don't know, I just found it confusing---is the purpose for outreach and salvation or is fellow-shipping with other believers? Anyway that's just a side issue, but if my kids aren't even meeting the other kids and are already getting the religious instruction at home I guess I just don't see the point. We arrived home at 11pm and had to let the dogs out, give them some attention since they were just in crates for 5 hrs, and then get ready for bed. Kids went to bed at 11:45, Dh and I were awake until about 12:45. Oh, and we got pressure from the other homeschooling family as soon as we stepped out of the car. "Are you staying over?" Me- "What? Why do you keep asking me that when I already told you no?" And, hello, how would we stay over with nothing packed?!! Ughh! As anticipated we were repeatedly asked if we would be attending today's activities. My Dc would like to go to some part of the activites for today, but Dh and I are tired and I don't think it's happening. I hate disappointing my kids and I love that they are so responsive to the Bible messages and want to attend, but I hate being put in this position and I have a lot to get done today to help my mom before we attend our family BBQ after church tomorrow. I probably shouldn't be posting, but it feels good to sit down! Later today Dh and I are going to talk about how we are going to handle this, because you are all right, something further has to be said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 His pressure may come from a good place. He enjoys spending time with your family and with a small congregation, the more kids the more fun they'll all have. I wouldnt quit, church-hop, or go over his head without explaining to him how tense his constant pressure makes you feel. I don't know him, but he might think of his pushiness as being a welcoming host. He might want you to feel wanted there. KWIM? If he's a single man, he has no clue about family pressure and HE has tons of time to dream up activities. HE doesn't understand early bedtimes or the stress of shuttling kids to and fro. If your own son was in this position, how would you want an older woman to spell it out for him? If nobody explains it, he won't get it until he has kids of his own. Yes, this is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. I just can't quite figure out how to get the message across to him without being absolutely blunt and rude, though I think some of the suggestions in this thread might be worth a try. BTW, there is very little hope for this man ever understanding family pressures. He is well into his 50's, possibly even 60, (I'm not good at judging ages) and has never married. He is certainly quite a bit older than I. Part of me thinks he's been around long enough that he should have some wisdom about family obligations. The other part of me thinks he needs it explained, though I feel like I've already explained our situation quite clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Yes, this is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. I just can't quite figure out how to get the message across to him without being absolutely blunt and rude, though I think some of the suggestions in this thread might be worth a try. BTW, there is very little hope for this man ever understanding family pressures. He is well into his 50's, possibly even 60, (I'm not good at judging ages) and has never married. He is certainly quite a bit older than I. Part of me thinks he's been around long enough that he should have some wisdom about family obligations. The other part of me thinks he needs it explained, though I feel like I've already explained our situation quite clearly. There is a place for gently explaining to someone but there is a bigger place for that person respecting your decisions even if they don't understand them. I'm sorry that you are getting such pressure. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Martin Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think I would stop explaining. A lot of people interpret explaining as "maybe." I would try leaving it at a polite but very firm "no" for a while and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think I would stop explaining. A lot of people interpret explaining as "maybe." I would try leaving it at a polite but very firm "no" for a while and see what happens. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 I don't really see how he could interpret the fact that I have health problems and cannot attend everything and that being out late affects me far more than it would other people as a 'maybe'. This explanation which has been accompanied by 'no' and even a talk from my Dh has been given repeatedly. And, for a while we have even tried the firm 'no' without explanations b/c I got tired of explaining and, as others have mentioned, I know I don't owe him one. Still, we may go back to the firm 'no'. Dh is thinking he is going to have a more stern discussion with this elder after the weekend is over, possibly next Sun. I don't think there will be time this week, though we will have to decide if and how to respond to his usual "We missed you yesterday. We had a great time...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 though we will have to decide if and how to respond to his usual "We missed you yesterday. We had a great time...." "I'm glad that you had a great time. We had a good time regrouping as a family and taking care of family obligations too." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 :grouphug: i would ask for a meeting with the senior pastor and the pressuring elder, and you and your dh. then, i would ask to be permitted to say what i need to say without being interrupted, and then to have a discussion after you have spoken. pray together, and then lay it out clearly, but simply... a) this is what has happened. state in one sentence with no emotional language. it may take a while to get to that point. eg. yesterday, pressuring elder asked me if we were staying over. b) how i felt. journal all the emotions, and then choose to share four or five of them, including frustrated, disrespected, harrassed.... c) why i think it happened. this is the place to say that maybe it happens because pressuring elder is single, and hasn't had the experience, because he knows it is a good program and wants your children to have the experience, because its a small church and there won't be programs if most folks don't participate etc, etc (this is the place to attribute potentially positive reasons for his behavior, and any critical negative ones, too). and why i felt the way i did (this has happened frequently, mentioning the number of times in the past few weeks specifically) d) what you need. (eg. i need my prayerful decisions to be respected, i need to feel i can come to church without being harrassed, etc). specifically for the summer, i need the pressuring elder to greet us cheerfully, and have a discussion which doesn't involve the programming or trying to get us to come or telling us we were missed. all those things may be true, but the wound is raw enough now that it will all feel like salt.... and i'm pretty sure that is not the kind of salt Jesus had in mind. e) what i'm going to do next. i'm going to listen to what you have to say and see if we can't come to a place where we can feel comfortable continuing to come to church here. and then listen. and then decide. :grouphug::grouphug: ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Is there a chance that Elder thinks that more time at church will cure your chronic condition? That you'll be surrounded by prayer and everything? It's possible he has no idea about the very real difference between "getting a little uncomfortable sitting in a church pew" (which is usually resolved by position-switching, standing up and moving, etc) and Fibromyalgia. And it's really not his business to know your medical history, but it may be hard for him to understand. My definition of "won't sleep well in a sleeping bag on a gym floor" is WAY different from yours because I'm not dealing with chronic pain. Of course, he may also just be a boundary-violating jerk. I agree with most of what elfgivas said, except that I don't think it's worth explaining why YOU think Elder is being aggressive. I sort of fear that if you don't name his reason, he may think you're putting words in his mouth, or jumping to conclusions or whatever. It may create an extra wall that you don't need in the discussion. I would start by speaking with JUST the head pastor, explaining that you're having some issues with Elder and you need his support/input/whatever. AT that meeting you can explain that you're willing to meet with Pastor and Elder (with Pastor mediating?), but Pastor shouldn't go into a 3 way meeting without knowing the basics of the situation first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beccad777 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 His pressure may come from a good place. He enjoys spending time with your family and with a small congregation, the more kids the more fun they'll all have. I wouldnt quit, church-hop, or go over his head without explaining to him how tense his constant pressure makes you feel. I don't know him, but he might think of his pushiness as being a welcoming host. He might want you to feel wanted there. KWIM? If he's a single man, he has no clue about family pressure and HE has tons of time to dream up activities. HE doesn't understand early bedtimes or the stress of shuttling kids to and fro. If your own son was in this position, how would you want an older woman to spell it out for him? If nobody explains it, he won't get it until he has kids of his own. I agree with this. I also think that he simply doesn't understand the reality of fibromyalgia. My mother has this, and people who don't have it or have never lived with someone who has it just don't get it. They really have no clue. I don't think he is trying to be a jerk, he just doesn't understand. I also think that if I had 2 kids who were the ages of your kids, the activities that he planned seem like a lot of fun. My kids would be begging to go to these things, and I would personally be grateful for these opportunities for my kids, especially since I homeschool and they aren't around other kids every day. (But that is just my opinion. If this is not your thing, that is obviously, totally fine!) I remember how much fun similar activities were when I was in youth group. I don't think his plans are out of line. I do think his pressuring you to be there is out of line. He needs to learn to take no for an answer. I would be using strong wording to make him leave me alone. When I was growing up we lived about 25-30 minutes away from our church. We had a very active youth group and we always wanted to go to the activities. We also had a lot of lock ins (over-nighters) with other churches. Many times my parents said that we could go to the events if we could get a ride, so we did a lot of bumming of rides. But, it was worth it to us because we wanted to go. My mom had fibromyalgia and couldn't always take us, and my dad worked long hours. So, if we wanted to go, we got a ride until my sister got her license. Do your kids want to go to these things? Is there any one who lives near you that could give your kids a ride? Is there an adult who would be responsible for them that you trust so you don't have to go yourself? Just some options. But, he really needs to back off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 Do your kids want to go to these things? Is there any one who lives near you that could give your kids a ride? Is there an adult who would be responsible for them that you trust so you don't have to go yourself? Just some options. But, he really needs to back off! Yes, my Dc enjoy these activities. If they were at a decent hour, we would attend more of them. They have no interest in staying overnight. I agree with much of what you posted but, I have already said I will not leave my Dc overnight without either my presence or my Dh's. Aside from the fact that no background checks have been done and I do not personally know the people from the other churches (or the kids for that matter), my Dd has many serious food allergies. I have learned the hard way that many adults do not understand how serious food allergies can be. Dh and I also want to hear what is being taught spiritually at these youth events. Ds often catches some things that are said that aren't we aren't quite in agreement with, so I'm not as concerned with him, but Dd is more easily led. We also do not allow our children to ride with just anyone. Dh and I have to know the adult well and trust their driving. There are way too many people answering phones, texting, etc. while driving today. My Dc are very active in 4H, sewing club, figure skating and have plenty of opportunities around other children--none of them require us to be out until 11pm like last night. So, that's not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischerl Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 My plate is full. This is all he really needs to know. Too bad he doesn't respect your "No". Can you just tell him something like "we like doing things with our church body, but sometimes we have other obligations or just need to rest. We'd really rather you not pressure us to attend these things. We'll come when we can!" :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama2cntrykids Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have a question, does he do this to other families, or just yours? If it's just yours, that's creepy. If it's other families too, it's annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 If this guy isn't the minister I'd take it to the minister. If that doesn't stop it I'd change churches. That kind of constant pressure is uncalled for. Oh, and I'd make sure the minister knows that if the harassment (that is what this is at its most basic) doesn't stop I'd be changing churches. If the guy makes it ugly for you after the minister has spoken to him I'd change churches. Life is too short to put up with a lot of BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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