Kids harassing woman on bus- is our society on the wrong track?

[teamturner]

It is one of the reasons I want to try to keep going through high school, too. I admit I have many concerns, many doubts about that, but the one thing I don't doubt is that my son won't be left emotionally scarred by homeschooling.

 

 

That is an excellent point! Thank you for that pearl! I'm going to use it the next time someone mentions "socialization" to me.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Another vote for "it's nothing new."

 

My high school bus, early 1980s, was a den of iniquity, brutality, and dangerous behavior. They never bullied the bus driver (no aide) to any extreme, because he pretty much let them do whatever they wanted to.

 

Cussing and routine bullying of other students was so typical that no one batted an eye. Punches were thrown, blood was shed, drugs were sold, fires were set.

 

There were only 3 girls on the bus (we went to a school out of our zone), or I'm sure there would have been other types of misbehavior as well. As there were so few of us, we could all sit in the front seats, and were quite smart enough to do so. You had the girls, then a few rows of 'good' boys, then a few rows of rowdy boys, and then Helltown.

 

Yep, same experience all those years ago. Personally, I had kids hitting me on the head with heavy backpacks and teasing me because my dad died. There were often rumors of a couple kids engaging in a planned fight at a particular stop and everyone would get off the bus there to watch.

 

I think a big difference now is that so many people have smartphones ready to document what they see and society can no longer be blind to what's happening.

 

I hate when people want to point the finger at how kids are being raised "these days." Give me a break. Selective memory at its finest.

[ErinE]

I was wondering why it is that not even ONE child on the bus tried to defend the lady. Surely some of the children who saw what was happening and didn't participate knew it was wrong and didn't want it to happen. Yet, not even ONE was brave enough to stand up for her and tell the others to stop. As I told my 2 youngers yesterday when we were discussing it, one child probably couldn't have made the others stop, but one child standing up for her could still have made her feel better. It also occurs to me now that if one child had been brave enough to say something, maybe others who felt the same but were afraid to speak might have joined in.

 

Saying something can leave you getting pounded on by a 6', 200-pound boy/man who beats you up as a favor to his friend. I know this from personal experience...

[Guest submarines]

I was wondering why it is that not even ONE child on the bus tried to defend the lady. Surely some of the children who saw what was happening and didn't participate knew it was wrong and didn't want it to happen. Yet, not even ONE was brave enough to stand up for her and tell the others to stop.

 

 

If the bus driver, an adult, didn't interfere, I can only imagine how unsafe other children must have felt.

 

Something else I've been thinking about as well. I do feel for the lady, I do. What they did to her was horrible. But what about her not standing up for herself? It wasn't just about her. She was at least somewhat responsible for the children on the bus, and her utter lack of action made the situation worse for everyone. When one is in charge of children one really needs to work hard to overcome such things as meek personality and shyness, and fear (or whatever stopped her from taking control of the situation).

 

She's an adult for a reason. Even if she's a meek person by nature, it was not the time to be meek.

 

I really don't like when everyone is vilifying children and leaving the adults out of it, as though they weren't there at all.

[clarkacademy]

If the bus driver, an adult, didn't interfere, I can only imagine how unsafe other children must have felt.

 

Something else I've been thinking about as well. I do feel for the lady, I do. What they did to her was horrible. But what about her not standing up for herself? It wasn't just about her. She was at least somewhat responsible for the children on the bus, and her utter lack of action made the situation worse for everyone. When one is in charge of children one really needs to work hard to overcome such things as meek personality and shyness, and fear (or whatever stopped her from taking control of the situation).

 

She's an adult for a reason. Even if she's a meek person by nature, it was not the time to be meek.

 

I really don't like when everyone is vilifying children and leaving the adults out of it, as though they weren't there at all.

 

I see your point but please remember this is 2012. Adults cannot say much, they certainly cannot get physical or mommy and daddy will sue sue sue the schools! When it comes to school they have their hands tied the majority of the time. They do or say anything well then that is bad. It may hurt that special childs self esteem. Sarcasm drip drip.

 

Kids act like that because they can.

[clarkacademy]

But see this is ridiculous in another direction. I don't think every parent out there is sue happy. Parents can't win. They are either too involved, not involved enough, too concerned, not concerned enough, etc. When my kid makes a kid mistake it's because I'm a bad parent and don't parent them. People practically jump down your throat over the dumbest things so yeah I get why some parents are defensive sometimes.

 

This society has become a pass the buck kind of thing. Kids are not blamed. They got a bad grade teachers fault. They behaved badly well it must be parent, caregiver etc fault. Schools hands are tied. I just read yesterday about children being hospitalized over a sunburn because the school couldn't let them have sunscreen without a doc note.

 

No matter how you go about it public school is a nightmare and the kids know that nothing will be done to them.

[FaithManor]

I see your point but please remember this is 2012. Adults cannot say much, they certainly cannot get physical or mommy and daddy will sue sue sue the schools! When it comes to school they have their hands tied the majority of the time. They do or say anything well then that is bad. It may hurt that special childs self esteem. Sarcasm drip drip.

 

Kids act like that because they can.

 

 

In our school district, there would be very little she could say or do and not get fired for it. We need tort reform where these kinds of frivolous lawsuits are thrown out and judges reem people for bringing them in the first place, fines, etc.

 

My friend who teaches algebra 2 has kids who throw things at him each day in class. He is not allowed to remove them from class and he has to have a witness (another teacher or aide) in the room if he admonishes him so his "tone of voice" is documented because children shouldn't be yelled at. :glare: Another teacher just biding his time to retirement and having once been in the job because he really, really wanted to teach math and inspire kids, he's now just hanging on.

 

Without another adult within hearing range and undistracted to verify her response fit the very limited list of verbal admonishments our district allows and in the low tone and volume that the administration has demanded, she'd be fired.instantly.escorted.off.the.premesis.

 

Personally, I think many of these policies absolutely guarantee that stuff like this will happen because the kids know there is no recourse against him. Kids who don't seem to operate with a conscience need a healthy dose of fear of unpleasant consequences to keep them in line. Being suspended from school, the bus, or being given afternoon detention does not provide a consequence of meaning to them. The school, by default, has created a Lord of the Flies environment. Therefore, it is not shocking to me at all that she didn't say a thing. She has been preprogrammed to believe she has to take it because she needs the job.

 

Faith

[OH_Homeschooler]

This society has become a pass the buck kind of thing. Kids are not blamed. They got a bad grade teachers fault. They behaved badly well it must be parent, caregiver etc fault. Schools hands are tied. I just read yesterday about children being hospitalized over a sunburn because the school couldn't let them have sunscreen without a doc note.

 

No matter how you go about it public school is a nightmare and the kids know that nothing will be done to them.

 

These are all gross overgeneralizations. Stupid stuff happens and that's what makes the news. The real story is far less interesting, so it doesn't make the news. Most parents, teachers, and schools are doing the best they can and are doing a pretty good job. That's boring, that's what doesn't make the news.

[Guest submarines]

In our school district, there would be very little she could say or do and not get fired for it. We need tort reform where these kinds of frivolous lawsuits are thrown out and judges reem people for bringing them in the first place, fines, etc.

 

My friend who teaches algebra 2 has kids who throw things at him each day in class. He is not allowed to remove them from class and he has to have a witness (another teacher or aide) in the room if he admonishes him so his "tone of voice" is documented because children shouldn't be yelled at. :glare: Another teacher just biding his time to retirement and having once been in the job because he really, really wanted to teach math and inspire kids, he's now just hanging on.

 

Without another adult within hearing range and undistracted to verify her response fit the very limited list of verbal admonishments our district allows and in the low tone and volume that the administration has demanded, she'd be fired.instantly.escorted.off.the.premesis.

 

Personally, I think many of these policies absolutely guarantee that stuff like this will happen because the kids know there is no recourse against him. Kids who don't seem to operate with a conscience need a healthy dose of fear of unpleasant consequences to keep them in line. Being suspended from school, the bus, or being given afternoon detention does not provide a consequence of meaning to them. The school, by default, has created a Lord of the Flies environment. Therefore, it is not shocking to me at all that she didn't say a thing. She has been preprogrammed to believe she has to take it because she needs the job.

 

Faith

 

So the media focus shouldn't be "sweet grandma bullied" but "bus monitor not allowed to stand up for herself due to board regulations."

[Bluegoat]

But when are many kids actually being parented? If they are in school most of the time and in after school care and in before school care and in day care centers for 12 hours a day being raised by people who say parenting is not their job, then when is the parenting happening? For a few hours on the weekend (that are taken up by all the other stuff we gotta get done in life)?

 

A lot of kids spend a lot of time in groups where they are treated a lot like cattle.

 

Yeah, I think this is so sad. Even with pretty good quality group care there is no way they can provide the kind of modeling and socialization and just being there that kids need.

[teamturner]

These are all gross overgeneralizations. Stupid stuff happens and that's what makes the news. The real story is far less interesting, so it doesn't make the news. Most parents, teachers, and schools are doing the best they can and are doing a pretty good job. That's boring, that's what doesn't make the news.

 

I don't agree. More bad stuff does make the news than in the past thanks to our technology, but it really does seem to be escalating. Do you really think that bullying in general has not gotten worse in recent decades? I think bullying is a significant factor in the rise of homeschooling, although I know it's not the only reason people homeschool, of course.

 

And what is up with bad kids recording their bad behavior for all the world to see? Not only do they lack common decency, but any brains as well!

[FaithManor]

So the media focus shouldn't be "sweet grandma bullied" but "bus monitor not allowed to stand up for herself due to board regulations."

 

 

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

 

Makes me disgusted. The little brutes need a serious lesson and the adult shouldn't have to take it. In our district, neither would happen. Causes my brain to twitch!

 

Faith

[OH_Homeschooler]

Do you really think that bullying in general has not gotten worse in recent decades?

 

I really don't think we can say bullying is worse now than it used to be. Like I said, 30 years ago kids were dropping their heavy backpacks on my head on the bus and laughing at me BECAUSE my dad died. Every day. And I was not alone.

 

I'm glad to see that schools are now being forced to acknowledge it.

[CAmomof4]

What happens to the students is another story altogether, but what about the bus driver? The other ADULT on the bus? He/she should have pulled the bus over to the side of the road, radioed for a policeman, and had the kids in question arrested for assault. End of story. Let the parents come pick their kids up from the holding cell.

 

Whether this is new or old, in my opinion, doesn't matter. It is unacceptable.

 

As they say, "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."

[Bluegoat]

I really don't think we can say bullying is worse now than it used to be. Like I said, 30 years ago kids were dropping their heavy backpacks on my head on the bus and laughing at me BECAUSE my dad died. Every day. And I was not alone.

 

I'm glad to see that schools are now being forced to acknowledge it.

 

I think there are cycles to it to some extent. In some ways I think it is worse now than in the recent past, overall - there have always been bad incidents. There have been times in history when it was just as bad or worse.

[Bluegoat]

What happens to the students is another story altogether, but what about the bus driver? The other ADULT on the bus? He/she should have pulled the bus over to the side of the road, radioed for a policeman, and had the kids in question arrested for assault. End of story. Let the parents come pick their kids up from the holding cell.

 

Whether this is new or old, in my opinion, doesn't matter. It is unacceptable.

 

As they say, "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."

 

Sometimes there seem to be rules about what bus drivers can do. I have heard of them being reprimanded for not taking kids home, and they are often not supposed to get involved at all with what goes on in the bus because then they are not concentrating on driving.

[Renee in NC]

I agree that it can happen anywhere that people congregate, but home schooled kids have the very great fortune of not having to endure it every. single. day.

 

As we enter our 10th year of home schooling, I can honestly say that I have never seen or heard of a case of true bullying in our local set. When I have heard of bullying among home schoolers (mostly on message boards), it always seems to occurr in co-ops and such - that is, in a very school-like setting. I'm sure it does happen, but it seems wonderfully uncommon, and again, it is so much easier for hs'd kids to walk away. They are not nearly as "trapped" as schooled kids.

 

My ds was mercilessly bullied by homeschooled kids when we lived in FL. It wasn't in a co-op setting, but it was in group settings. Unfortunately for him, the same kids were in all the activities he participated in. We eventually quit homeschooling, and he went to the local junior high. It was a MUCH better social situation, and he finally enjoyed being around other kids.

[Journey]

I disagree about this being a "normal" middle class neighborhood. I live a few towns over from where this occurred and this town that it happened in is often referred to as just as bad as the city. It's a HUGE district and lies very close to the city so in my opinion, it is way more a "city" district than a suburban" district. In the local news they interviewed two of the fathers. One was crying and the other was upset because his family is getting death threats and according to him it was a "mistake". Two of the families are now trying to sue the guy who set up the money fund for the lady. There are so many sides to this story and all of them are sad. I fully believe that the parents have the most significance in a child's life and while they can't control everything a child says or does, how that child is brought up really matters.

[Reflections]

Yep, same experience all those years ago. Personally, I had kids hitting me on the head with heavy backpacks and teasing me because my dad died.

 

:grouphug:

[AHASRADA]

True, people have always had the capacity to be cruel and uncivilized. True, this is more likely to occur in groups/packs/gangs, especially among the immature.

 

I believe the difference now is that all social structure that used to govern such behavior has broken down. As Imp said, adults/authority figures used to have some deterrent effect and some recourse to deal with these issues. In many cases, there was a sense of community, where families knew each other and neighbors kept an eye on, as well as disciplined, each other's kids. There was more likely a level of behavior and morality that was shared by the majority of the community and, while these expectations certainly didn't stop evil actions, it at least limited them to situations where the perpetrators were unlikely to "get caught". That fear of punishment/dishonor/retribution was there. It seems to have disappeared in many communities.

 

Locking up huge numbers of children and adolescents in an environment where the adults are outnumbered at least 20 to 1, and these adults have limited and ever-shrinking authority, only invites "Lord of the Flies" behavior. Duh.

[LibraryLover]

I don't think it's broken down. I think we are far less tolerant about this sort of thing than we have ever been. 20 years ago you could have slammed your kid into the car, or poured hot sauce down her throat to your heart's content, and nobody would have batted an eye. Today, it gets you on the the Dr Phil show, along with donated, free therapy.

 

We have classes being held, and celebrities speaking out against bullying, gay bashing, no tolerance policies (some carried out poorly) at schools etc.

Edited June 22, 2012 by LibraryLover

[MrsBasil]

I disagree about this being a "normal" middle class neighborhood. I live a few towns over from where this occurred and this town that it happened in is often referred to as just as bad as the city. It's a HUGE district and lies very close to the city so in my opinion, it is way more a "city" district than a suburban" district. In the local news they interviewed two of the fathers. One was crying and the other was upset because his family is getting death threats and according to him it was a "mistake". Two of the families are now trying to sue the guy who set up the money fund for the lady. There are so many sides to this story and all of them are sad. I fully believe that the parents have the most significance in a child's life and while they can't control everything a child says or does, how that child is brought up really matters.

 

Wait. What? Why? Do you have a link for this? That's really disgusting.

[TranquilMind]

I believe the difference now is that all social structure that used to govern such behavior has broken down. As Imp said, adults/authority figures used to have some deterrent effect and some recourse to deal with these issues. In many cases, there was a sense of community, where families knew each other and neighbors kept an eye on, as well as disciplined, each other's kids. There was more likely a level of behavior and morality that was shared by the majority of the community and, while these expectations certainly didn't stop evil actions, it at least limited them to situations where the perpetrators were unlikely to "get caught". That fear of punishment/dishonor/retribution was there. It seems to have disappeared in many communities.

 

 

 

This is exactly it, right here.

[Bluegoat]

True, people have always had the capacity to be cruel and uncivilized. True, this is more likely to occur in groups/packs/gangs, especially among the immature.

 

I believe the difference now is that all social structure that used to govern such behavior has broken down. As Imp said, adults/authority figures used to have some deterrent effect and some recourse to deal with these issues. In many cases, there was a sense of community, where families knew each other and neighbors kept an eye on, as well as disciplined, each other's kids. There was more likely a level of behavior and morality that was shared by the majority of the community and, while these expectations certainly didn't stop evil actions, it at least limited them to situations where the perpetrators were unlikely to "get caught". That fear of punishment/dishonor/retribution was there. It seems to have disappeared in many communities.

 

Locking up huge numbers of children and adolescents in an environment where the adults are outnumbered at least 20 to 1, and these adults have limited and ever-shrinking authority, only invites "Lord of the Flies" behavior. Duh.

 

 

That's interesting. It's definitely true that our communities and neighbourhoods are a lot less connected to each other than they have been in the past. I wonder if that is a contributing factor?

[Tarreymere]

I haven't read the other replies yet.

 

Yes, we have gone wrong with how we are raising our children. Kids are meant to have a close relationship with one or more caring adults and to model their behavior on those adults. They aren't meant to be 'socialized' in packs of thirty or more kids and to model their behavior on those other kids with very little adult supervision. They aren't meant to have superficial relationships with their parents. Public school is a big part of the problem since it makes it acceptable to throw these kids together in large groups and to let them develop their own maladaptive sub-cultures.

 

Parents do NOT have the most influence in their child's lives anymore for most of these kids. Do the math, how many hours a day for how many years have those kids been thrust into large groups of other kids, starting with daycare at the age of six weeks for a lot of them.

 

Read 'Lord of the Flies'. Read 'Hold on to your kids'.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Rainefox

[LucyStoner]

I think a big difference now is that so many people have smartphones ready to document what they see and society can no longer be blind to what's happening.

 

I hate when people want to point the finger at how kids are being raised "these days." Give me a break. Selective memory at its finest.

 

:iagree:

 

Kids haven't changed much. Parents aren't any worse for the most part (just go visit my grandma for evidence of BAD parenting in the 1950s!) All that has changed is the speed and transparency of information.

[butterflymommy]

I think this begins when they are tiny. Too many families are sending children to be raised in groups in daycares and preschools. They are rude and lack compassion because they may rarely see it modeled in situations where they are one of 15 to 20 with a single adult most hours of their lives. When you raise a child in a pack, they will grow up with pack mentality.

 

I'm not sure if this is the cause. Where/ when I grew up daycare and even preschool were unheard of, there were many SAHMs, and the kids were unimaginably cruel, vulgar and rude. Those experiences are the main reason I was led to homeschool.

 

ETA at a certain point we moved to an affluent neighborhood-- doctors' families on all sides of us-- but the kids of these doctors and businessmen were as vulgar, cruel, drug/ sex/ booze obsessed as the rest of them when they had the privacy to act that way. Having lived in both poor neighborhoods and wealthy neighborhoods, the main difference I've noticed is that rich people have the means to hide their dirty laundry and/ or are just better at hiding it, but we all have dirty laundry and poorly behaved children come from all strata of society.

Edited June 22, 2012 by butterflymommy

[butterflymommy]

I haven't read the other replies yet.

 

Yes, we have gone wrong with how we are raising our children. Kids are meant to have a close relationship with one or more caring adults and to model their behavior on those adults. They aren't meant to be 'socialized' in packs of thirty or more kids and to model their behavior on those other kids with very little adult supervision. They aren't meant to have superficial relationships with their parents. Public school is a big part of the problem since it makes it acceptable to throw these kids together in large groups and to let them develop their own maladaptive sub-cultures.

 

Most of my worst experiences came from hanging around with neighborhood kids of varying ages. School was bad too but even in the "natural" setting of relatives and neighbors it was still a very ugly scene.

 

I don't know what the answer is-- I used to think peer socialization was a big cause but honestly I think people are naturally cruel to each other and it tends to be all the more unfettered in children, before they have a more sophisticated conscience or the care to put on a public face.

 

I'm sure bullying and cruelty amongst children have existed since caveman days. I've watched documentaries about indigenous people and even in these cultures, which have no concept of school at all, there is a pecking order.

[LucyStoner]

I am going to say this. Personally, despite my significantly improved standard of living as an adult, I did not come from a normal suburban middle class family. I came from a transient, at times homeless, and extremely low income family. Or as we used to say "dirt poor" family. Most of the time we lived in a city, sometimes we lived in a pretty rural area. No suburbs in sight. It was a good month when we could afford the laundromat, often we washed our clothes in the bathtub. Our food mostly came from government commodities, food pantries and food stamps. New shoes from Payless were a big luxury item.

 

No one in my family and the vast majority of my similarly poor friends and peers did anything like what "normal middle class suburban kids" make the news for doing. No shooting up a school (which seems to be a essentially suburban issue and is quite rare in cities) or unafraid of adult authority. Definitely I saw kids of all income backgrounds bullying or being bullied, some seriously. There were definitely drugs in school but again, who can afford to buy drugs? Generally the worst, most persistent bullying was usually done by the very popular kids and for the most part let's just say you don't become the popular kid when you get all of your clothing from a free clothing bank.

 

I think it is really disingenuous to associate bad behavior as being mostly driven by socioeconomic factors. Certainly there are terrible things done by kids and some of those kids come from troubled and/or low income backgrounds. But many do not yet we express shock when it is a middle class kid. It's important to remember too that money doesn't buy a family's way out of dysfunction and abuse, as my husband's childhood can attest.

 

My son's four bullies were all from middle class or affluent 2-parent families. They were bullying a middle class kid from a 2-parent family.

[amsunshine]

:001_smile: Thank you, you're nice. I lost a lot of people who I thought were friends over not accepting it and refusing to allow the child back at my house.

 

:grouphug:

 

I've recently had an experience like this, too. I had to stand up for my child against a bully. It's hard to swallow, I know, but those people were never your true friends to begin with.

[teamturner]

Like I said, 30 years ago kids were dropping their heavy backpacks on my head on the bus and laughing at me BECAUSE my dad died. Every day. And I was not alone.

 

I'm so sorry. That is just awful!

[LucyStoner]

 

And what is up with bad kids recording their bad behavior for all the world to see? Not only do they lack common decency, but any brains as well!

 

Because bullies have never thought in the moment that their behavior was unacceptable or bad. There is usually some bragging "look at me, look what I did, I got her good" etc. So it stands to reason that in an era of freakishly cheap and accessible recording technology, some kids would make a video to show off. Sick. But if people had had the same technology in the past, I think it would have been used in a similar way.

[Rivka]

I think a big difference now is that so many people have smartphones ready to document what they see and society can no longer be blind to what's happening.

 

I hate when people want to point the finger at how kids are being raised "these days." Give me a break. Selective memory at its finest.

 

I agree. It's not just smartphones, but 24-hour cable news networks and huge websites looking for ways to put eyeballs in front of their advertisers by posting shocking things that will go viral.

 

Also: "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on

the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless

beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discreet and

respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and

impatient of restraint."

--- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.

 

 

I don't think it's broken down. I think we are far less tolerant about this sort of thing than we have ever been. 20 years ago you could have slammed your kid into the car, or poured hot sauce down her throat to your heart's content, and nobody would have batted an eye. Today, it gets you on the the Dr Phil show, along with donated, free therapy.

 

We have classes being held, and celebrities speaking out against bullying, gay bashing, no tolerance policies (some carried out poorly) at schools etc.

 

:iagree: I think there is much, much less acceptance of picking on the weak in modern times, and kids who have special needs or are despised minorities are more empowered to speak up about what is happening to them.

 

I am going to say this. Personally, despite my significantly improved standard of living as an adult, I did not come from a normal suburban middle class family. I came from a transient, at times homeless, and extremely low income family. Or as we used to say "dirt poor" family. Most of the time we lived in a city, sometimes we lived in a pretty rural area. No suburbs in sight. It was a good month when we could afford the laundromat, often we washed our clothes in the bathtub. Our food mostly came from government commodities, food pantries and food stamps. New shoes from Payless were a big luxury item.

 

No one in my family and the vast majority of my similarly poor friends and peers did anything like what "normal middle class suburban kids" make the news for doing. No shooting up a school (which seems to be a essentially suburban issue and is quite rare in cities) or unafraid of adult authority. Definitely I saw kids of all income backgrounds bullying or being bullied, some seriously. There were definitely drugs in school but again, who can afford to buy drugs? Generally the worst, most persistent bullying was usually done by the very popular kids and for the most part let's just say you don't become the popular kid when you get all of your clothing from a free clothing bank.

 

I think it is really disingenuous to associate bad behavior as being mostly driven by socioeconomic factors. Certainly there are terrible things done by kids and some of those kids come from troubled and/or low income backgrounds. But many do not yet we express shock when it is a middle class kid. It's important to remember too that money doesn't buy a family's way out of dysfunction and abuse, as my husband's childhood can attest.

 

Thank you. I was a little disturbed by the OP's assumption that this behavior is to be expected from poor kids, and is shocking from middle-class ones. In my experience, kids who are more well-off are given much more latitude in their behavior than poor kids, and schools may be more likely to overlook bullying because the kids come from "good families." A poor kid who messes up has no one standing up to bat for him.

[Perry]

I think one aspect that IS new, at least from when I was a teen, is that teens have no hesitation at all at taking on adults.

:iagree:

We've always had bullies and nasty kids, but I am shocked at the level of disrespect that I've witnessed toward adults.

 

I don't completely buy the idea that the adults' hands are tied. Our school district has been excellent at addressing bullying and supporting students, staff, and adults. There was a girl kicked off my dd's bus to middle school for mouthing off to the bus driver. It wasn't a problem at all. I've had interactions with the district for a variety of disciplinary issues, and I've been impressed and pleased with how they have all been handled. I think they have a lot more power than we're led to believe. I think they often don't have the will.

[woolybear]

Welll.......My kids were not sent to daycare, to be raised in a pack. We have homeschooled my oldest since he was 6. Prior to that he went to a Waldorf school. And still, I can't believe how rude and disrespectful he can be sometimes. Certainly there are consequences. and this behavior is not modeled here.

 

He is involved in sports in town. But I still think he is being raised well, and yet... where does this come from? So, I think it is oversimplifying it maybe to assume that the parents of kids that behave this way are not really paying attention or raising them well. I actually fear if ds went to ps, that he could pretty easily end up behaving this way if his friends were........:001_huh:

[Joanne]

I remember after the shooting at Columbine, people were asking questions- how could this happen in a "good neighborhood"?

 

Likwise, here, the kids were normal suburban kids. They weren't from the Rochester City Schools, where people wouldn't have been so surprised at the behavior, since the schools in the City have a bad reputation. They were from a normal, middle-class suburban school.

 

I think we are asking the wrong question if we are simply asking what punishment these particular kids deserve. It makes it sound as if this is an isolated incident and it's only these particular kids.

 

My experience is the opposite. This type of behavior is very common. Children are routinely rude and behave poorly.

 

I think rather than just single out these kids for punishment, we need to have a real discussion about where we are going wrong as a society, where this type of behavior is commonplace, even among "good" suburban kids in "good" suburban school.

 

What do you think? Have we gone wrong as a sociey in how we raise children?

 

It's news because it sells and it's uncommon. Most kids and adults go through their days without drama.

 

Older generations have been calling armagedon on the younger generation since before recorded history.

 

There are psychological reasons this happened. It's sick and it was twisted - but you can't make any assumptions about the families, their values or discipline(or at least assumptions that are accurate).