Halftime Hope Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) nm Edited May 29, 2012 by Valerie(TX) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I'm sorry to say this, but your friend handled the entire situation very poorly. She should have gotten legal advice and made sure she had all of her ducks in a row before she gave her dh the slightest inkling that she wanted a divorce. She was a fool to have left the house, and any decent attorney would have told her that. There should have been a formal separation agreement in place, and things like spousal support should have been hammered out. It is ridiculous that she didn't make sure that money was put in her name, and that she didn't find out where all the money was, long before she ever ended the marriage. My only advice is that she needs a new attorney, right now. I'm sorry she's going through such a bad situation, but she really should have made better plans before she left the house. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I agree with Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Leaving is never a good idea -- planning months beforehand, making copies of bank statements, tax returns, categorizing receipts especially where the kids are concerned: those are good ideas. Her difficulty now will be having $$$ for an attorney - she truly needs to find out who the divorce shark attorney is in her town and go to that person. Maybe work out a payment plan. I know that sounds awful, but that is what she has to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 My only advice is that she needs a new attorney, right now. Since the divorce is final, would a new attorney do any good? I am sorry for your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssavings Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Since the divorce is final, would a new attorney do any good? I am sorry for your friend. I had a friend re-open a previously finalized divorce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Yes, this is the kind of situation that makes me point people towards a lawyer BEFORE they make any moves towards divorce. Good legal advice and representation is vital. Whether there is anything to do at this point is dependent on exactly what has happened legally. She can talk to her lawyer or talk to a new lawyer. FWIW, her LAWYER can't fold/agree on her behalf. SHE has to sign agreements. If SHE hasn't done so, SHE doesn't have to do so. SHE must assert control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) I agree with Cat. Thanks. :001_smile: I hate to sound unsympathetic, because this woman's biggest problem was essentially that she was too nice and too trusting a person, which probably makes her a wonderful friend to have, but in this day and age, there is really no excuse to have botched things up as badly as she did. It wasn't even a case of suddenly finding out her husband was cheating and leaving the house in a fit of rage and anguish; this marriage was on the skids for years, so she should have been prepared. There is a ton of free information available that explains what steps to take before filing for divorce, and apparently she didn't bother to read any of it. She had years to get some education or job training so she would qualify for a decent job --- if she had begged him to get counseling for years and the relationship wasn't improving, she should have been preparing for the worst at the same time that she was working to save the marriage. Again, I'm sure she is a lovely person, but a little common sense and preparation would have made a world of difference, and I hope she's able to get some good legal advice now. Edited May 27, 2012 by Catwoman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 FWIW, her LAWYER can't fold/agree on her behalf. SHE has to sign agreements. If SHE hasn't done so, SHE doesn't have to do so. SHE must assert control. :iagree: That is absolutely true. The lawyer could have given her some bad advice, but she's the one who agreed to it in writing. If she wasn't happy with her lawyer's performance, she should have hired a new one. I know I sound terribly mean in this thread, but your friend should have put on her big girl panties a long time ago. Does she always let people tell her what to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 :iagree: That is absolutely true. The lawyer could have given her some bad advice, but she's the one who agreed to it in writing. If she wasn't happy with her lawyer's performance, she should have hired a new one. I know I sound terribly mean in this thread, but your friend should have put on her big girl panties a long time ago. Does she always let people tell her what to do?[/QUOTE] I just wanted to jump in here and say that the friend's behavior is not the problem but rather the symptom of a problem -- the problem being that she was likely demeaned and undermined and made to feel like cr*p the entire duration of her marrriage. When one has spent years being told 'what' to do, one begins think that everyone knows better than them. So when she went to an attorney, unfortunately, if the attorney did not have her best interests in focus or simply wasn't skilled at divorce, well, she would never think to question this since for years she has been told that 'everyone knows more than you do.' While there may or may not be any hope of her getting anything rehabilitative for herself, depending on the age of the children, she may be able to get rehabilitative alimony in order to get back into the work force to be able to take care of them for as long as they are minors. There is also child support to consider if the children are still minors or still in school/college. Worst case scenario, she needs to pul her self up by her bootstraps, leave no stone unturned, get some counseling and if all she can afford is books from the library, then she should start reading, and she needs to enjoy her life on her own. A bowl of corn flakes for dinner in a teeny weeny apartment is better than filet mignon in a mc mansion with an SOB sitting across from you at the table.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 A bowl of corn flakes for dinner in a teeny weeny apartment is better than filet mignon in a mc mansion with an SOB sitting across from you at the table.;) But what's even better is sitting at the table eating filet mignon for dinner in the McMansion while the SOB is eating a bowl of corn flakes in a teeny weeny apartment. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readinmom Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I consider it a victory that she's out of there. Get out of the tiny apartment, move far, far away. The dc will come around. A mom is irreplaceable. Having a new, happy life will sit worse with him than any bank account. Money is obviously how he controls, and now that control is gone. Her happiness will be a thorn in his side. Prolonging a fight over hidden money will be stressful for her, and a power trip for him. Let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 But what's even better is sitting at the table eating filet mignon for dinner in the McMansion while the SOB is eating a bowl of corn flakes in a teeny weeny apartment. :D :iagree:but that ship may have already sailed. I consider it a victory that she's out of there. Get out of the tiny apartment, move far, far away. The dc will come around. A mom is irreplaceable. Having a new, happy life will sit worse with him than any bank account. Money is obviously how he controls, and now that control is gone. Her happiness will be a thorn in his side. Prolonging a fight over hidden money will be stressful for her, and a power trip for him. Let it go. THIS. I speak from experience. THIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 But what's even better is sitting at the table eating filet mignon for dinner in the McMansion while the SOB is eating a bowl of corn flakes in a teeny weeny apartment. :D :iagree::iagree::iagree::lol: Have to say, that was great!!! Wish it could happen for her....:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 But what's even better is sitting at the table eating filet mignon for dinner in the McMansion while the SOB is eating a bowl of corn flakes in a teeny weeny apartment. :D IME, this happens when it is the husband who wants out not the wife. The husband usually has enormous earnings, the wife and children are accustomed to a certain level of living, and the husband wants out. I have a friend right now who is in the mc mansion, 3 kids are in a very expensive private school, and none of that is going to change. The husband is elsewhere with someone else and he can easily support all of it. I know of another situation where the wife was awarded permanent alimony - unusual. The husband had met and wanted to be with someone else and was willing to pay any amount of money (and he had the wherewithal to do it) to be out of the marriage. It does happen - I am particularly happy for my friend who is in that situation right now b/c she was really blindsided -- but, I don't think the situation described to us in the original post can take that direction at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't see where she has any recourse unless she makes a drastic personality change. Someone suggested she hire a new attorney but she has to feel that *fight* in her to take on her ex again. She would have to face all the unpleasantness again and even words/actions from her ex and her young adult children. It would be tough indeed. I think it would probably be in her best interest to find a way to pick herself up and make decisions with what she has. Did she get a cash settlement? Maybe you can help her find out how to invest it or something. Can she consider moving to somewhere with a lower cost of living? Can she move closer to family and receive moral support from them? I'm sorry to hear she's in such a bad place. I think that sucks and my inner sense of justice is screaming out in frustration for her. But to be honest, I am not the kind of person who has that "oomph" to fight. I would be much better off with a friend who helped me start over with where I am, learning to take care of just me. I must say I'm very unimpressed with her children if they aren't trying to help her at all because they don't want to be cut off from their daddy's wallet. That must be hurting her more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 ... but, I don't think the situation described to us in the original post can take that direction at this point. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3browneyedboys4me Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 But what's even better is sitting at the table eating filet mignon for dinner in the McMansion while the SOB is eating a bowl of corn flakes in a teeny weeny apartment. :D lol...now this was awesome! :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't see where she has any recourse unless she makes a drastic personality change. :iagree: I must say I'm very unimpressed with her children if they aren't trying to help her at all because they don't want to be cut off from their daddy's wallet. That must be hurting her more than anything. :iagree: I was thinking the same thing. It also makes me wonder if there is a lot more to this story than the OP has been led to believe. This woman is definitely portraying herself as the victim here, but if her own kids are taking their father's side, that is a bit of a red flag to me. Of course, she could have raised a bunch of mercenary brats, but something seems a little "off" to me. It would be nice if we were able to hear the ex-husband's side of the story. I'm not saying I approve of anything he has done, but I can't help but think that there is a lot of backstory if the kids are siding with the father who refuses to support their mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoy85 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 she might be able to file some sort of appeal and get a NEW, BETTER lawyer. What about custody? Child Support? Spousal Support? Her belongings? Taxes? Bank Accounts? Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Yes, she is too trusting and too naive. She is a generous and genuinely kind person in spite of the hell she has been through. Right now she's just really angry, and she's angry at herself for not being more astute. The grandparents are very well off and are past-masters at manipulating people through finances, including manipulating their own son, who apparently learned his lessons well indeed. Her kids are in a tough spot. They can't make a bit of difference for the mom. The younger one is one year away from finishing a degree at a college out of town and is having to go home on weekends and help, otherwise the dad and sibling wouldn't have a clean dish, all this while do everything possible to encourage the mom. The older sibling is a differently wired young person, quite the artisitic temperament and with Aspie tendencies. This child is less mature although a year older and is in a moderately severe bout of depression. Both kids love their mama dearly and understand exactly who each parent is, but the reality is that both of them are financially dependent on the dad right now. The younger sibling is able to create distance from it enough to have perspective, but the older one isn't healthy enough to do that. Thanks for all your input on the lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I must say I'm very unimpressed with her children if they aren't trying to help her at all because they don't want to be cut off from their daddy's wallet. That must be hurting her more than anything. They are victims of his abuse too. Maybe the child that is finishing college will be free from him after graduation? Give it some time. I'd not begrudge the child that last year of college, especially if Daddy is paying $$$ tuition. I just wouldn't. Meanwhile, I think she should work at making a life for herself. If her kids see her doing that, they may find the strength to do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I was thinking the same thing. It also makes me wonder if there is a lot more to this story than the OP has been led to believe. This woman is definitely portraying herself as the victim here, but if her own kids are taking their father's side, that is a bit of a red flag to me. Of course, she could have raised a bunch of mercenary brats, but something seems a little "off" to me. It would be nice if we were able to hear the ex-husband's side of the story. I'm not saying I approve of anything he has done, but I can't help but think that there is a lot of backstory if the kids are siding with the father who refuses to support their mom. IME, kids often blame the parent who leaves or initiates the divorce regardless of who's done what during the marriage. Even adult children. They often come around to the other side, but for the first year or two, all they can see is that their world has been rocked, and the parent who left did the rocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Ok, it's hard to answer and organize my response without quoting. The process of divorce includes a decree. These can be negotiated without "court". In that case, they are done through attorneys, mediators, or arbitrators. They are signed by the parties and eventually entered into the court. In your friend's case, there isn't a way for this to have become official without her legal consent. It is difficult to open up a modification without a substantial change in circumstance - and typically that involves something like child custody. The best advice I have for you for her is to encourage insight, education, and confidence building. My own experience having divorced an NPD is that it took years before I understood and emerged from the effects of a decade and a half of that dynamic. It is difficult and cumbersome to find and forge a self after the cumulative effects of being in a marriage characterized by the dynamic. The passive style during the divorce and the being victimized on paper is a symptom of the issue. In order to build a healthy new, post divorce life, she is going to need to work hard emotionally, mentally, and physically (to support herself). It's a b*tch. I wish I had another answer for you. It is similar to the (x)wife of an alcoholic. The alcoholic has the problem, but the power and responsibility for health is the other individual. I can't stress enough the need for therapeutic help to heal from years of this; she's likely PTSD and only a whisper of her real self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Element Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I consider it a victory that she's out of there. Get out of the tiny apartment, move far, far away. The dc will come around. A mom is irreplaceable. Having a new, happy life will sit worse with him than any bank account. Money is obviously how he controls, and now that control is gone. Her happiness will be a thorn in his side. Prolonging a fight over hidden money will be stressful for her, and a power trip for him. Let it go. :iagree: As far as her degree goes, she could look into post-degree certification from a community college. Our cc offers a 3 semester paralegal certificate for individuals who already have an an Associate's or higher. The degree doesn't have to be in business or law (my degree is in History) and paralegals are very employable and make decent money (around here, anyway.) I'm sure there are other post-degree certs available, I'm just familiar with the paralegal one. When I went through the program there were several 40+ ladies who were in the same boat as your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 They are victims of his abuse too. Maybe the child that is finishing college will be free from him after graduation? Give it some time. I'd not begrudge the child that last year of college, especially if Daddy is paying $$$ tuition. I just wouldn't. Meanwhile, I think she should work at making a life for herself. If her kids see her doing that, they may find the strength to do the same. I agree. It's sad, though, so i couldn't use the smiley agree face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 :iagree: As far as her degree goes, she could look into post-degree certification from a community college. Our cc offers a 3 semester paralegal certificate for individuals who already have an an Associate's or higher. The degree doesn't have to be in business or law (my degree is in History) and paralegals are very employable and make decent money (around here, anyway.) I'm sure there are other post-degree certs available, I'm just familiar with the paralegal one. When I went through the program there were several 40+ ladies who were in the same boat as your friend. If she is interested in the subject, I went back to school later while working and earned another degree in Computer Networking. I was able to find a new job with better pay and a better working enviornment while working on the degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I consider it a victory that she's out of there. Get out of the tiny apartment, move far, far away. The dc will come around. A mom is irreplaceable. Having a new, happy life will sit worse with him than any bank account. Money is obviously how he controls, and now that control is gone. Her happiness will be a thorn in his side. Prolonging a fight over hidden money will be stressful for her, and a power trip for him. Let it go. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 So I had lunch with my friend today. I asked her about several things she used to enjoy doing, and throughout the conversation, I had several chances to tell her that she could. Anything she wants to try, she can. She's smart, creative, lovely, and personable, and she's a great "front desk" person. She just has to believe in herself, decide what she wants to try, and go for it. I need to think of good ways to be supportive, in real, tangible ways...put my money where my mouth is, as it were. Thanks to everyone who posted! Each of you has shared something that has been a help to me in a different way. Joanne, she has to get a job with benefits to be able to access counseling. A previous counselor told her she was doing well and that she had, in reality, been divorced for years. With what you all have said, I can see some of the reality that she has withered from all the abuse, and that she will likely need more help. Again, thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 But what's even better is sitting at the table eating filet mignon for dinner in the McMansion while the SOB is eating a bowl of corn flakes in a teeny weeny apartment. :D :lol::lol::lol::lol: Cat. hehehehe You always say the perfect thing! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 She just has to believe in herself, decide what she wants to try, and go for it. I need to think of good ways to be supportive, in real, tangible ways...put my money where my mouth is, as it were. What a good friend! Push her to do what she wants to do. Maybe push is a bad word...nudge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 So I had lunch with my friend today. I asked her about several things she used to enjoy doing, and throughout the conversation, I had several chances to tell her that she could. Anything she wants to try, she can. She's smart, creative, lovely, and personable, and she's a great "front desk" person. She just has to believe in herself, decide what she wants to try, and go for it. I need to think of good ways to be supportive, in real, tangible ways...put my money where my mouth is, as it were. Thanks to everyone who posted! Each of you has shared something that has been a help to me in a different way. Joanne, she has to get a job with benefits to be able to access counseling. A previous counselor told her she was doing well and that she had, in reality, been divorced for years. With what you all have said, I can see some of the reality that she has withered from all the abuse, and that she will likely need more help. Again, thanks everyone! You are a good friend Valerie. I'm so glad that she has you to lean on through this. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 You are a good friend Valerie. I'm so glad that she has you to lean on through this. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: :iagree: I'm sure you are helping her more than you will ever know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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