Writing With Ease: Use the Workbooks or not?

[spaceman]

I like the idea of having the work all ready.

 

On the other hand, I don't like using excerpts from books we aren't reading.

 

So to reconcile, we could read those books in that order, or not use the workbooks. I have not yet bought or read The Complete Writer or any workbooks, so I'm going on limited information. :)

 

 

If you've done it both ways-with and without the workbooks-which do you prefer?

[Mommyfaithe]

Having the workbooks definitely makes life a lot easier. I don't think writing would be done as regularly around here without it.

 

:iagree::iagree:

I have the workbook for ds8, but not for ds 10. Ds 8 is now 3 weeks ahead of his brother:tongue_smilie:

 

I am purchasing the workbook!

[acrosier]

It is so much easier with the workbooks. I was spending crazy amounts of time trying to find everything. The excerpts are good and in some cases have inspired us to read a book. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[sleeplessnights]

We used the workbooks for the first couple years so that I could understand how to approach writing. This year we have transitioned to our own material from reading, history, and science. I still have The Complete Writer for reference, but I feel much more confident now.

[Bloggermom]

The Writing With Ease workbooks ensure we get it done. They are a huge time saver.

[spaceman]

Thank you!!

[SilverMoon]

I don't use the workbooks, but I've done WTM-style grammar stage writing with two kids before WWE existed.

 

I'm sure using just the guide does take more time than handing them the workbook, but since it gets two birds with one stone I think it equals out in the big picture. Beyond the copywork stage, I've found my kids produce better writing when the topics are pulled from their own books, or are something they'd have to study for science and history anyway. They're more engaged in the stories. *shrug*

 

I also found this to be true at the WWS level. I had dd read just the instructions from WWS, and do the work from a history book (and others) she had to read anyway. Her writing became less stilted almost immediately. Some of the excerpts did land on her library list, though, she thought the story length was a tease. :lol:

 

That said, when my preschooler is ready for regular copywork, it will be tempting to buy the first book, just so I can scratch "prepare copywork" off my to-do list. ;)

[abbeyej]

I love having the workbooks. They just make life so much easier. Many of the excerpts were books my kids had already read, other excerpts inspired them to go read something they hadn't read before, and a few were things we were happy to limit to 2-3 pages. :)

[Zoo Keeper]

My two cents...

[Wabi Sabi]

Yes and no.

 

I like having the selections already prepared. As others have mentioned, writing probably just wouldn't get done as regularly if I had to pull everything together.

 

That being said, the actual copywork sheets just don't work for my first grader. The space for writing is WAY too big for him. I write the sentences on a small whiteboard and he copies them onto regular notebook paper instead.

 

I really wish I could buy just the first half of the workbook (the parent part) and not have to purchase the student pages!

[alisoncooks]

I have the workbook and it does look very nice and professional. My DD likes the look of the pages (simple pen & ink drawings). Much more exciting than a piece of handwriting paper on which mommy has written the copywork sentence...:glare:

 

BUT I also don't like doing copywork from a story we haven't read. I'm planning on using the scheduled stories as our read-alouds each week.

 

I took my WWE1 workbook to Office Max, as inspired by a thread here. Had the binding removed and spiral-bound all the teacher instruction pages inside the book cover. Kept the student pages loose (in fact, as it's allowed to copy for family use, I had Office Max go ahead and run 1 copy of all the student pages to keep on hand for my younger child...or if my DD makes a terrible hole in her paper or something). Cost a few bucks, but worth the hassle for me to have it all ready to go.

[alisoncooks]

I really wish I could buy just the first half of the workbook (the parent part) and not have to purchase the student pages!

 

Do you have WWE/The Complete Writer? It has all 4 years of parent instruction, no student pages...

[Mommyfaithe]

I never just hand off the workbook to my kids....I don't think it is possible to do that with WWE as it is very parent guided, and discussion based. I use the workbook as a guide.....and we like the reading/discussing/narrating that is in the TM part of the workbook.

 

I COULD just do the exercises with whatever books I choose, but I find this gets the job done, and SWB chose many of the books I used or already read to my kids anyway.

 

Just didn't want anyone to get the idea that they could just buy the workbook and hand it off to their kid. WWE does not lend itself to that.

[Mommyfaithe]

:iagree:

 

It's hard to do it all so any help I can get is much appreciated.

 

Another thing I really like about all of the PHP books is how simple and clean they look. I cannot stand flashy books with snippets of this or that all over the page.

 

Yup. It is what I love about Veritas Press and Memoria Press too. Simplicity with a punch!:D

[Jennay]

I have used the workbooks so far with DS8 and DS9 (usually on separate paper) but I plan to start applying WWE to our history readings a bit more and skipping the history selections in WWE. With DD4 and DD2 I hope to have time to go through our SL cores ahead of time and pick some passages ahead of time (if I start now maybe I'll be done in 2 or 3 years....)

[Crimson Wife]

I was glad that I got the WWE1 workbook because I had a hard time when reading The Complete Writer visualizing how to implement the teaching suggestions. After going through the first level, I had a much better understanding of how to do WWE, so I didn't get the workbooks for 2-4.

[alisoncooks]

I was glad that I got the WWE1 workbook because I had a hard time when reading The Complete Writer visualizing how to implement the teaching suggestions. After going through the first level, I had a much better understanding of how to do WWE, so I didn't get the workbooks for 2-4.

 

That's great to hear (and somewhat what I'm hoping to be able to do). But it sure is nice to have it all laid out for this first year!

[spaceman]

Thank you all for this discussion!! I think I'm partial to not using the workbooks and as a few of you mentioned (and specifically zookeeper), I love the idea of writing "disappearing" into other subjects. I think that is my ideal place to work towards.

 

BUT, this is for 1st grade with my oldest child, so I will probably do this:

 

(I like your suggestions for cutting and binding also).

 

I have the workbook and it does look very nice and professional. My DD likes the look of the pages (simple pen & ink drawings). Much more exciting than a piece of handwriting paper on which mommy has written the copywork sentence...:glare:

 

BUT I also don't like doing copywork from a story we haven't read. I'm planning on using the scheduled stories as our read-alouds each week.

 

I took my WWE1 workbook to Office Max, as inspired by a thread here. Had the binding removed and spiral-bound all the teacher instruction pages inside the book cover. Kept the student pages loose (in fact, as it's allowed to copy for family use, I had Office Max go ahead and run 1 copy of all the student pages to keep on hand for my younger child...or if my DD makes a terrible hole in her paper or something). Cost a few bucks, but worth the hassle for me to have it all ready to go.

 

And then, maybe will we end up like this...

 

I was glad that I got the WWE1 workbook because I had a hard time when reading The Complete Writer visualizing how to implement the teaching suggestions. After going through the first level, I had a much better understanding of how to do WWE, so I didn't get the workbooks for 2-4.

 

 

Again, thank you all, and keep the discussion up!

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I love having the workbooks. They just make life so much easier. Many of the excerpts were books my kids had already read, other excerpts inspired them to go read something they hadn't read before, and a few were things we were happy to limit to 2-3 pages. :)

 

:iagree: I was hesitant to get the workbooks, but I am so glad we did. The excerpts are an excellent selection, and I desperately needed open-and-go writing exercises. We simply would not do it if it weren't that easy.

[SilverMoon]

I didn't intend to imply you could just hand off the book and not be involved. :001_smile: That's not how SWB/WTM rolls.

 

In my homeschool, the WWE method presents itself so often in science, history and literature that the workbook would be adding one more thing to our day, rather than removing one. It's become habit.

 

It's good to have options. :001_smile: I really like the separated guide and workbooks for WWE, and wish that had been continued in WWS. In a similar vein, when my older kids began Classical Writing we depended heavily on the workbooks, but now we've moved away from them and primarily use the cores (guides). Not everyone leaves the workbooks. It's all good.

 

(Disclaimer: I don't use the workbook for FLL 3 either. :tongue_smilie:)

[Mommyfaithe]

I'm always eying some of those books. Which ones have you used and like?

 

I have used Latina Christiana 1&2...before they had first form, second form. I still like those for beginning Latin

 

I have used all of the Veritas Press history guides and like them well enough. I always use bits and pieces....and on a different time schedule. Really loved the Explorers to 1850, and 1850- Modern times. I didn't like the Middle Ages one AT ALL...and I used the Ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome ones in one year. Liked those well enough to keep them.

 

I also used a couple of their lit guides (VP)....but, I don't really LIKE lit guides, so my opinion is nil:D

[Mommyfaithe]

I didn't intend to imply you could just hand off the book and not be involved. :001_smile: That's not how SWB/WTM rolls.

 

In my homeschool, the WWE method presents itself so often in science, history and literature that the workbook would be adding one more thing to our day, rather than removing one. It's become habit.

 

It's good to have options. :001_smile: I really like the separated guide and workbooks for WWE, and wish that had been continued in WWS. In a similar vein, when my older kids began Classical Writing we depended heavily on the workbooks, but now we've moved away from them and primarily use the cores (guides). Not everyone leaves the workbooks. It's all good.

 

(Disclaimer: I don't use the workbook for FLL 3 either.

 

:tongue_smilie:)

 

You are right!! I actually could handle this with my older kids...but...thisnold Mamma is a crispy critter these days. It is nice for me to have my brain all bound in a nice book....lol...

[hmvaughan4]

If you have the workbook, is the teacher manual also needed? I thought I read somewhere that the workbook is sufficient.

[momofsbandeg]

and the responses as I have been wondering this as well.:)

[PookieMama]

If you have the workbook, is the teacher manual also needed? I thought I read somewhere that the workbook is sufficient.

 

By teacher's manual, I assume you mean the Complete Writer book?

 

If you are just looking to implement this method, the workbooks suffice. But if you want to understand the philosophy behind the method, you can get the CW book. OR you can do like me and just read the article "Why Writing Programs Fail" (available on the PHP website in the Complete Writer sample) and listen to SWB's writing lectures.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/audio-products/audio-lectures.html

 

Look at the second row down. There's one each for elementary, middle, and high school.

 

I actually bought the book after doing the above and saw that I had gotten pretty much all I needed. So I returned it. :001_smile:

[Mommy22alyns]

I love having the workbooks. And the excerpts have interested the girls in reading the actual books.

[Hedgehogs4]

Haven't read the other replies, but I will say two things from our experience:

 

1. When I have the workbooks, writing gets done. When I didn't have the workbooks, writing was a great idea that I couldn't get around to nearly enough.

 

2. The excerpts from the books SWB chooses are so great that my son launched into reading because he couldn't stand having just a little bit of something. He wanted to know the whole story. I credit WWE with motivating him to read, and he is now a very good reader who will pick up books voluntarily for pleasure.

[Crimson Wife]

If you have the workbook, is the teacher manual also needed? I thought I read somewhere that the workbook is sufficient.

 

Do see if your library has a copy of The Complete Writer. Mine does, and I highly recommend reading it to get an understanding of where SWB is going with WWE.

[timetoteach]

..

:iagree: We buy the leveled workbooks, but have DD write on loosleaf paper so that the lines are smaller

[LMD]

I was glad that I got the WWE1 workbook because I had a hard time when reading The Complete Writer visualizing how to implement the teaching suggestions. After going through the first level, I had a much better understanding of how to do WWE, so I didn't get the workbooks for 2-4.

 

Yes this. I used the workbook for 1 (and will again next year with my next one) and really liked it. I thought the excerpts were lovely and yes it prompted us to read some of the books - in fact my children are listening to 'The Light Princess' on the kindle (audible) currently.

 

However after 1st I think combining with other studies - history or science especially - works really well. I also think that the information in The Complete Writer is so valuable that I'd probably recommend it with or without a workbook...

 

We don't actually use WWE at the moment as written, but I do take guidance from it when doing narrations in other subjects.

 

ETA - the workbook is sufficient on it's own though. I did 1 with only the workbook and it was fine, but afterwards I secured a copy of TCW and loved it.

[alisoncooks]

I actually bought the book after doing the above and saw that I had gotten pretty much all I needed. So I returned it. :001_smile:

Same here.

 

The format of The Complete Writer is:

~section on the writing philosophy

~all the lessons, level 1-4, with detailed scripts

~some other stuff in the back, I don't remember what

 

Anyway, I did a side-by-side comparison of the teacher section of the workbook and the WWE/The Complete Writer book and found them pretty similar. The first few lessons have some differences in wording and amount of description/explanation (but not enough to make a difference to me). In later lessons, the teacher directions were identical in both.

[sagira]

I've used both. However, we already read a lot, and the extra passages to read and digest felt disconnected, and just, well.. Superfluous. In addition, I don't want ds to do summaries yet, but would like him to do CM style narration. I believe if he tells me everything he knows he makes it his own and is more likely to remember. I still like and recommend the program to most people, but I have moved on to doing dictation, oral narrations, copywork and such CM style on our own. I don't think ds writes quality sentences yet to be dictated to him. I'd rather him copy beautiful sentences with quality literary quality. He dictates narrations to me. He is motivated to produce shorter narrations when he writes them himself, but when he dictates, it can go to a few pages long! I notice his language is getting more sophisticated, and we also do studied dictation in regards to spelling.

 

I still own WWE Complete Writer and use it as a reference. After 13-14 weeks, I get the workbook and ditched it in favor of our own CM style efforts. It's also getting done, and feels cohesive.

Edited March 28, 2012 by sagira

[Wabi Sabi]

Do you have WWE/The Complete Writer? It has all 4 years of parent instruction, no student pages...

 

I checked it out from the library but if I remember correctly (it's been a while) it explains what to do but doesn't actually give you the passages to read aloud and follow-up questions. I like everything all laid out for me and it's really not a big deal at all for ds to do his copywork in a composition book instead of the worksheets.

[alisoncooks]

I checked it out from the library but if I remember correctly (it's been a while) it explains what to do but doesn't actually give you the passages to read aloud and follow-up questions. I like everything all laid out for me and it's really not a big deal at all for ds to do his copywork in a composition book instead of the worksheets.

 

Hmmm, maybe someone else can chime in here b/c I no longer have my copy on hand.... but I think it has exactly everything that the workbook has, just no writing lines....

You can see a long sample here. There is the passage, the questions, etc.

[mystika1]

I teach my girls with unit studies and while I did purchase the workbook I think the CW book would have been better. Everything in our studies ties together but, the WWE passage is like an oddball thrown in.:D I may just make our own passages for the next few weeks and then move to the CW book. But....isn't wwe3 comprised mostly of poetry? If so, I may have to stick with the workbooks cause I don't think I will find much poetry to go with our unit studies.:)

 

Thanks,

 

Penny

[Elfknitter.#]

I recently checked out CW from my library. It gave a sample of how to run the first week, then the next 2-3 you design in the same format.

[ErinE]

SWB explains everything in the Complete Writer. For ds9, I started out using WWE3, but the passages and dictation were one more thing added to our day. He enjoyed reading the excerpts, but moaned about the required writing. I didn't like the disconnect between the school studies and writing. Now, ds does writing activities every day, but I use history, science, and literature as the subjects. History is M/W, Science is T/Th, and he narrates a book summary on Friday. We follow the writing schedule in The Complete Writer, although I switch the order every six weeks so he's not always dictating science or narrating history.

 

Monday through Thursday, he reads aloud his assigned excerpts in history or science. As he's reading on narration days, I determine what type of narration I want: sequence, summary, or descriptive. We then discuss the passage; I ask him questions to check his retention. Then, asking for a 3-4 sentence answer, I give instructions,: summarize the life cycle of a star (sequence), list three changes the leader made (summary), describe the Milky Way (descriptive). He gives me his narration, but I guide his sentence construction so he doesn't ramble or use imprecise terms. I've gradually increased the number of sentences he is expected to write, and I write the rest. He enjoys going through his writing notebook and reading what he wrote in the past. Over time, I've noticed improvement in the quality of his narrations and his willingness to write.

 

For dictation, I use small sticky tabs to note particular sentences as we read the passage. At the end, I go through the tabs and pick the best sentence group. I use The Complete Writer to select a weekly writing focus, but I also like to find interesting punctuation or beautiful sentences. Dictation is difficult, but ds tracks the word count and he tries to beat his number the next week. I also praise him when he remembers to capitalize proper nouns or he adds commas without prompting.

 

Fridays, we review his assigned literature. I pick one literary element as his focus: plot, characters, conflict, setting, etc. In the beginning, I defined the terms. Now, I just remind him. If we're discussing plot, I tell him that a story's plot is the sequence of events. I usually get an eye roll and "I know, I know!" I prompt him: tell about the story's plot, describe the main character, what was the story's conflict and how was it resolved. For his literary writing, I try not to stress his writing skills and I write everything. I don't want our literature discussions to be a chore. When I've received pushback on reading an assigned book that he ultimately enjoys, I've been known to add sentences like: My mom is the best mother ever. She picks books she knows I'll love. He finds these hilarious.

 

I haven't started any formal WWE activities with dd6, but I'm prepping her for WWE Level 1. After she reads, I have her tell me what happened in the book. When she does her copywork, we find the nouns and verbs. Next year, I'll use The Complete Writer to guide her writing.

[Professormom]

We used the workbooks for the first couple years so that I could understand how to approach writing. This year we have transitioned to our own material from reading, history, and science. I still have The Complete Writer for reference, but I feel much more confident now.

 

:iagree:This is what we did as well?... If I had to do it over again, I would still use the workbooks at first, because they really help you learn where swb is going and get into the rhythm of the program.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

SWB explains everything in the Complete Writer. For ds9, I started out using WWE3, but the passages and dictation were one more thing added to our day. He enjoyed reading the excerpts, but moaned about the required writing. I didn't like the disconnect between the school studies and writing. Now, ds does writing activities every day, but I use history, science, and literature as the subjects. History is M/W, Science is T/Th, and he narrates a book summary on Friday. We follow the writing schedule in The Complete Writer, although I switch the order every six weeks so he's not always dictating science or narrating history.

 

Monday through Thursday, he reads aloud his assigned excerpts in history or science. As he's reading on narration days, I determine what type of narration I want: sequence, summary, or descriptive. We then discuss the passage; I ask him questions to check his retention. Then, asking for a 3-4 sentence answer, I give instructions,: summarize the life cycle of a star (sequence), list three changes the leader made (summary), describe the Milky Way (descriptive). He gives me his narration, but I guide his sentence construction so he doesn't ramble or use imprecise terms. I've gradually increased the number of sentences he is expected to write, and I write the rest. He enjoys going through his writing notebook and reading what he wrote in the past. Over time, I've noticed improvement in the quality of his narrations and his willingness to write.

 

For dictation, I use small sticky tabs to note particular sentences as we read the passage. At the end, I go through the tabs and pick the best sentence group. I use The Complete Writer to select a weekly writing focus, but I also like to find interesting punctuation or beautiful sentences. Dictation is difficult, but ds tracks the word count and he tries to beat his number the next week. I also praise him when he remembers to capitalize proper nouns or he adds commas without prompting.

 

Fridays, we review his assigned literature. I pick one literary element as his focus: plot, characters, conflict, setting, etc. In the beginning, I defined the terms. Now, I just remind him. If we're discussing plot, I tell him that a story's plot is the sequence of events. I usually get an eye roll and "I know, I know!" I prompt him: tell about the story's plot, describe the main character, what was the story's conflict and how was it resolved. For his literary writing, I try not to stress his writing skills and I write everything. I don't want our literature discussions to be a chore. When I've received pushback on reading an assigned book that he ultimately enjoys, I've been known to add sentences like: My mom is the best mother ever. She picks books she knows I'll love. He finds these hilarious.

 

I haven't started any formal WWE activities with dd6, but I'm prepping her for WWE Level 1. After she reads, I have her tell me what happened in the book. When she does her copywork, we find the nouns and verbs. Next year, I'll use The Complete Writer to guide her writing.

 

 

This is exactly the type of hand holding I have been looking for! Thanks for this review.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I've used both. However, we already read a lot, and the extra passages to read and digest felt disconnected, and just, well.. Superfluous. In addition, I don't want ds to do summaries yet, but would like him to do CM style narration. I believe if he tells me everything he knows he makes it his own and is more likely to remember. I still like and recommend the program to most people, but I have moved on to doing dictation, oral narrations, copywork and such CM style on our own. I don't think ds writes quality sentences yet to be dictated to him. I'd rather him copy beautiful sentences with quality literary quality. He dictates narrations to me. He is motivated to produce shorter narrations when he writes them himself, but when he dictates, it can go to a few pages long! I notice his language is getting more sophisticated, and we also do studied dictation in regards to spelling.

 

I still own WWE Complete Writer and use it as a reference. After 13-14 weeks, I get the workbook and ditched it in favor of our own CM style efforts. It's also getting done, and feels cohesive.

 

Can you explain the CM style narration in more detail to me? Or maybe provide a link?