danybug Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 We just got home and I was surprised to see my new Sonlight catalog waiting for me. Even with all of the hullabaloo, they sure know how to make we want to buy lots in the catalog. They definitely have the most drool worthy catalog in my book ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Mine came the other day with a MFW catalog stuck inside it. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I must be a born consumer, because I read, re-read and read again the Sonlight catalog every single year, even though I know it's not for us. I do the same with the Winter Promise catalog and several others. It's a bad habit of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bmom Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Ours came today. It seems like a price increase, no? At least for the younger years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Mine came the other day with a MFW catalog stuck inside it. :lol: :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Cornelia Snook Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Mine came today. I am comparing it to the golden oldie 2010 catalog and the 2011 catalog, just to compare and decide if I want to order the 2011 version of Core E and F before the dreaded April 2 arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoToSchool Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 We just got home and I was surprised to see my new Sonlight catalog waiting for me. Even with all of the hullabaloo, they sure know how to make we want to buy lots in the catalog. They definitely have the most drool worthy catalog in my book ;) After your post I had to go and check out their site! I'm not familiar with Sonlight, is there anything in particular that they do really well? I also noticed your 11 yr old DD and my 10 year old DD have a nearly identical 'curriculum' for this year:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danybug Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 After your post I had to go and check out their site! I'm not familiar with Sonlight, is there anything in particular that they do really well? I also noticed your 11 yr old DD and my 10 year old DD have a nearly identical 'curriculum' for this year:) Hmm, I would say what Sonlight does the best for us is incorporate literature around history, christianity and world cultures. I like the idea of having readers, read-alouds and history books all planned out for the year for me with notes included. Otherwise, I get too bogged down with details of selection and being too overwhelmed with making everything come together. And I am just a sucker for reading. I adore books and this curriculum is based totally on reading real books. Hope that helps! Sometimes what my mind is thinking does not get articulated as well as I would like. If you are checking them out make sure you look at the new April 2012 catalog. They have not converted the site over to it yet, because the products are not available until April 2nd. They have made some significant changes to structure as well as to book selections and pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoToSchool Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Hmm, I would say what Sonlight does the best for us is incorporate literature around history, christianity and world cultures. I like the idea of having readers, read-alouds and history books all planned out for the year for me with notes included. Otherwise, I get too bogged down with details of selection and being too overwhelmed with making everything come together. And I am just a sucker for reading. I adore books and this curriculum is based totally on reading real books. Hope that helps! Sometimes what my mind is thinking does not get articulated as well as I would like. If you are checking them out make sure you look at the new April 2012 catalog. They have not converted the site over to it yet, because the products are not available until April 2nd. They have made some significant changes to structure as well as to book selections and pricing. Thanks for explaining! I'm taking a peak now, but i'll be sure to check back in a few weeks:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Ours came today. It seems like a price increase, no? At least for the younger years. P5/4 actually went down slightly (not sure why), but the cores with LA added in went up by a bit (except probably F... they took books out, so it's probably cheaper). The A-C cores went up by just a little bit. The D and up cores went up by around $40 because LA is integrated in those IGs. So that's probably cheaper IF you used the Core IG and the LA IG, but if you don't use SL LA, it's a price increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 After your post I had to go and check out their site! I'm not familiar with Sonlight, is there anything in particular that they do really well? I also noticed your 11 yr old DD and my 10 year old DD have a nearly identical 'curriculum' for this year:) Their literature selections are particularly well thought-out. Lots of award-winning books, but they also pay attention to exposing students to a variety of genres, authors, and cultures. So, a student who might not necessarily think to try a certain genre will have at least an exposure to that. They are also good at including a variety of viewpoints on a topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmama Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Got ours today too - now I'm really torn on new vs. old cores for some of the levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssavings Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Mine came today, but DH grabbed it to bring to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amayla Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 We got ours today too. I keep going back and forth about buying or not buying this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danybug Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Got ours today too - now I'm really torn on new vs. old cores for some of the levels. Which ones? It has been driving me batty, since I heard about the changes. We had ordered Core F and I returned it because I thought I would like to have the most up to date one. Then I found out exactly how much they changed. And then my ds complained that he really wanted to do the EHE, so today I ordered a copy of the EHE even though part of it will be integrated in to the new Core F. And then Core A I think I am only going to buy the IG. I have pieced together the books on my own. Then I wonder if I should just go ahead and try to schedule something out on my own, since I would not be using SL LA anyway. Too many decisions :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmama Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Which ones? It has been driving me batty, since I heard about the changes. We had ordered Core F and I returned it because I thought I would like to have the most up to date one. Then I found out exactly how much they changed. And then my ds complained that he really wanted to do the EHE, so today I ordered a copy of the EHE even though part of it will be integrated in to the new Core F. And then Core A I think I am only going to buy the IG. I have pieced together the books on my own. Then I wonder if I should just go ahead and try to schedule something out on my own, since I would not be using SL LA anyway. Too many decisions :glare: D and E I already know I want the old versions, and I'll add in the newer books as extras where I want to. B, C and F are the ones I'm iffy on going new or old. And I'm debating on using the LA - we have the LA 2 IG and will be using it this year for 1st, so I won't know for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I've been drooling over the downloaded pdf version on my iPad. Hope the print comes soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singbanshee Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 mine just came...I've been looking at the pdf on my ipad for a couple of days and didn't expect to get the print version yet....guess what i'm doing tonight?? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Martin Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Boscopup, did you do any of the earlier cores with your seven year old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie in UT Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) I wish I could order ALL Sonlight and just go. Unfortunately that just doesn't work for us. I love most of their literature selections; adore the IG which puts it together for me; and am sold on all the tag lines about how using Sonlight eliminates all your homeschool stress. I, however, do not love/care for their Language Arts materials. The Well Trained Mind material is much better in my opinion. History: Currently my sis and I are working on a plan to use Cores G and H as our main materials, while integrating parts of Cores B and C to cover the needs of our younger students. These materials would be used over the course of 3 years instead of 2. We would use the 5-Day schedule, but only do it 4-Days a week. We would then study U.S. History for 2 years. Still working on that plan. I don't like the main texts in Core D and E. I'm thinking of using the History of US books for my main text, adding in various other books of literature for the younger and older students. I think I could put together a week plan after all my use of the Sonlight IG's--which I love. Science: Just a note, my kids want nothing but Sonlight Science ever again. When over hearing my say that I had to make some decisions about science for the coming year, my 10 year old spoke up and said, "Mom, Sonlight." Best wishes to all of you and your decision making. This is our 18th year of homeschooling. Wish I'd tried Sonlight the first time I found it. Edited March 27, 2012 by Stacie in UT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Boscopup, did you do any of the earlier cores with your seven year old? No, we just started with Core D literally 2 weeks ago. This is our first time to do anything Sonlight. Btw, they generally don't recommend this core for kids under 9 on the forums, though I've seen several advanced kids using it at 8. My son is advanced and almost 8, so I figured "close enough". :tongue_smilie: We've had some good discussions so far, and I think he is ready for this material. I'm going to attempt to stretch this core out to 18 months and do the same with Core E, but we'll see what happens. My son loves history. :D We're NOT using the LA. Just history/read-alouds/readers. I got the IG used, and my library has many of the books. I've bought or plan to buy some of the others used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I bought one of their elective packages before the price increase. I have such fond memories of Sonlight. I hope that I keep getting their catalogs...sniff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Mine arrived today too, I drool over it every year and then usually get swayed to not do the program I want to try. My kids saw it and asked if we could really use it for next fall, not try it for a few weeks and then dump it for something less time consuming. Soi bought the current core D IG and the books we don't own for trimesters 2 and 3 to really try it out the rest of the year. We had actually done the first trimester last fall. They really want to do Core E next fall, so we'll give it an honest 24 weeks and if it works we'll move on to E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I got it and didn't even read it. But I'm trying to decide about ordering the old Core 5/F IG and the EHE before the April 2nd turnover to the new stuff. Or if we just want to do Core 6, which I already own. Or if I just want to leave Sonlight, which is appealing right now, I'm not very happy with the company. But I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face, because we've enjoyed SL, my kids do well with it, and I like how easy it is to use. I'm afraid I will bomb at doing my own thing. (If we don't do SL, we'll do WTM history/SOTW or Further Up and Further In.) I hate that stupid April deadline or I'd just put this on the back burner for a few months, we're still finishing up Core 4/E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Got mine today and am pretty sure I have been carrying it around all day. :lol: i have had the pdf on my iPad for days, but there is just something about a paper catalog. ;) I have been drooling over SL for years and think I am going to jump in next year. Well, at least I have thought so for at least 48 hours...and that is serious! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennay Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I got it and didn't even read it. But I'm trying to decide about ordering the old Core 5/F IG and the EHE before the April 2nd turnover to the new stuff. Or if we just want to do Core 6, which I already own. Or if I just want to leave Sonlight, which is appealing right now, I'm not very happy with the company. But I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face, because we've enjoyed SL, my kids do well with it, and I like how easy it is to use. I'm afraid I will bomb at doing my own thing. (If we don't do SL, we'll do WTM history/SOTW or Further Up and Further In.) I hate that stupid April deadline or I'd just put this on the back burner for a few months, we're still finishing up Core 4/E. Same here, except we are halway through Core 3/D. I think I am going to upgrade my Core A IG before April 2 since I like the separate notes. I think the new Core A has much weaker selections than the old one. I'll either upgrade B and C when my daughters get there or use the IGs I already have and add in some of the new books. I have a Core E IG I bought used but I am not sure if I want to buy the old style or not before April 2 (so I have copyright permission to copy maps, etc.) I really want the old style Core G & H so those might be purchased as well. I too, don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face. SL works for us - I just don't like the changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Before , when the SL catalog came, I would take it and give the kids the rest of the day off. The catalog was forbidden to be touched until I had devoured it and then I would get multiple copies. Got mine yesterday and it is still sitting on the table where my ds put it. Not the same. I will eventually look at it to see what books they substituted but only when I have time because I need to look up what the book descriptions are. This is still a sore thing with me...a literature curriculum that does not describe the literature they are using. Grrr. I do love the cover though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Not the same. I will eventually look at it to see what books they substituted but only when I have time because I need to look up what the book descriptions are. This is still a sore thing with me...a literature curriculum that does not describe the literature they are using. Grrr. I do love the cover though. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.C. in Florida Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I will be a first time Sonlight user next school year. I was planning on waiting until April 2 to order Core D, but now I'm questioning this. Jennay, why do you like seperate notes? Are there any other reasons why the old IG set up is better than the new one? I know that the LA will be included and the price increased. We plan to do the 4 day schedule, and The Light and the Glory isn't included in the 4 day schedule. I would appreciate any input. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankcassiesmom Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Before , when the SL catalog came, I would take it and give the kids the rest of the day off. The catalog was forbidden to be touched until I had devoured it and then I would get multiple copies. Got mine yesterday and it is still sitting on the table where my ds put it. Not the same. I will eventually look at it to see what books they substituted but only when I have time because I need to look up what the book descriptions are. This is still a sore thing with me...a literature curriculum that does not describe the literature they are using. Grrr. I do love the cover though. Me too. I am still bitter lol. I can't stand the new catalog format with its lack of book descriptions. I cherished my SL catalog when it came mine has sat here all day next to me and I haven't even picked it up yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAM Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I miss the descriptions too. They know what they are doing with those catalogs though, except for that part. I had switched to using a more relaxed style for the past few months (after starting the year with SL) and now I want to go back to SL! Just from flipping through the catalog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma aimee Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 i got the christianbooks.com one too -- and SOTW in it -- on sale!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennay Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I will be a first time Sonlight user next school year. I was planning on waiting until April 2 to order Core D, but now I'm questioning this. Jennay, why do you like seperate notes? Are there any other reasons why the old IG set up is better than the new one? I know that the LA will be included and the price increased. We plan to do the 4 day schedule, and The Light and the Glory isn't included in the 4 day schedule. I would appreciate any input. Lisa I like the separate notes because I'm not a "day by day" person and I don't like the idea of having the notes a little on one day, a little on the next, etc. I tend to use the schedule as a general order (often adding and subtracting books/resources). I like to have the notes just for that particular book with me when we do read-alouds. If I wanted to follow the day by day schedule all I would need to do is put the books notes behind that weeks schedule. The new IG just seems less flexible. Who knows - it may be really great, Me too. I am still bitter lol. I can't stand the new catalog format with its lack of book descriptions. I cherished my SL catalog when it came mine has sat here all day next to me and I haven't even picked it up yet. I'm bitter too. :toetap05: Last year's catalog looks like new and I'm not even looking forward to getting this years at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I just got mine. No one's mentioned the paper yet. They changed their paper and it bugs me. I flipped through it and without the book descriptions, it's really lost it's appeal to me. Just a lot of blah, blah, blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anna~ Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I got the new catalog today. I also have the prior one that I requested about 2 months ago. I haven't had time to look through the one I got today, but I did enjoy looking through the old one. I am not going to use Sonlight, because I don't like that several books are being read at one time. Isn't that correct? I am talking like readers and read-alouds, not a history spine or anything. At this point, my DD needs to read one book from start to finish so she's not all over the place. But I did get great ideas for good books to read from Sonlight :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorbackmama Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I will be a first time Sonlight user next school year. I was planning on waiting until April 2 to order Core D, but now I'm questioning this. Jennay, why do you like seperate notes? Are there any other reasons why the old IG set up is better than the new one? I know that the LA will be included and the price increased. We plan to do the 4 day schedule, and The Light and the Glory isn't included in the 4 day schedule. I would appreciate any input. Be aware that with the new IG, while the history and read-alouds are scheduled over 4 days, the readers are scheduled over 5. So you will have to tweak, have your kids read on the 5th day, or end up with your readers and history books not lining up. Because of this very reason, I'm planning to order my stuff (along with an extra IG for a year in the future) before April 2. There are so many boneheaded changes this year...I cannot even begin to describe them all. But we love SL (FINALLY, after 10 years, I've found what works for us!), so I plan to continue with it. But it won't be with the new IGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PentecostalMom Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Got mine today, too! Sitting down to look at it finally! So excited!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Me too. I am still bitter lol. I can't stand the new catalog format with its lack of book descriptions. I cherished my SL catalog when it came mine has sat here all day next to me and I haven't even picked it up yet. this is me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I like the separate notes because I'm not a "day by day" person and I don't like the idea of having the notes a little on one day, a little on the next, etc. I tend to use the schedule as a general order (often adding and subtracting books/resources). I like to have the notes just for that particular book with me when we do read-alouds.If I wanted to follow the day by day schedule all I would need to do is put the books notes behind that weeks schedule. The new IG just seems less flexible. Who knows - it may be really great, This is what I liked about the separate book notes too. that you didn't have to stay on schedule for the book. I would just pull out about 6 weeks of notes anyway and use a exasperated notebook I'm bitter too. :toetap05: Last year's catalog looks like new and I'm not even looking forward to getting this years at all. mine too. I pulled it out in the last few weeks to compare something but that is it. I also haven't opened this one either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelAR05 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'm bitter too. :toetap05: Last year's catalog looks like new and I'm not even looking forward to getting this years at all. I flipped through it and without the book descriptions, it's really lost it's appeal to me. Just a lot of blah, blah, blah. :iagree: I am just still so, so sad about them taking out the book descriptions. I guess, for me, the focus on the descriptions represented their love of books. Now the catalog represents just another curriculum. Also, what finally made me turn away from Sonlight was when so many voiced their opinion, like myself, about the descriptions, I just felt ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorbackmama Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 :iagree: I am just still so, so sad about them taking out the book descriptions. I guess, for me, the focus on the descriptions represented their love of books. Now the catalog represents just another curriculum. Also, what finally made me turn away from Sonlight was when so many voiced their opinion, like myself, about the descriptions, I just felt ignored. :iagree:All that "this core is so wonderful" garbage in every description is just a bunch of hot air to me. I don't care. I can tell for myself the core is wonderful when I see all the books and read all the book descriptions. It sort of lessens the impact of "wonderfulness" when THEY try to be the ones telling me how wonderful it is. Sort of like a truly humble person - you know they are without them telling you, and the minute they say something about being humble, it just gets ruined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 :iagree: I am just still so, so sad about them taking out the book descriptions. I guess, for me, the focus on the descriptions represented their love of books. Now the catalog represents just another curriculum. Also, what finally made me turn away from Sonlight was when so many voiced their opinion, like myself, about the descriptions, I just felt ignored. This wouldn't of been so bad. It was the feeling like they patted you on the head and told you what was best but in a very condescending way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I was disappointed in some of the books that were added. The Case of the Gasping Garbage and Captain Nobody don't seem to be up to Sonlight's quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 This wouldn't of been so bad. It was the feeling like they patted you on the head and told you what was best but in a very condescending way. oh my is that so totally true. TRUST US WE KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelAR05 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 oh my is that so totally true. TRUST US WE KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU. Yes, this would more accurately describe how I felt. I tried looking at the new catalog yesterday. I saw several new book titles and, of course, didn't have a clue what they were about. They probably are really good books but I don't want to go online to look at every description. I will now stop trying to beat a dead horse. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltop Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I tried looking at the new catalog yesterday. I saw several new book titles and, of course, didn't have a clue what they were about. They probably are really good books but I don't want to go online to look at every description. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Hmm, maybe the lack of book descriptions doesn't bother me as much, because I always go to Amazon and look them up anyway. I like reading their customer reviews before I decide I want to use a book and I always make a wishlist with whatever books Sonlight has recommended for a core to see if I can purchase them less expensively at Amazon. So I guess it doesn't really make a difference, since I always feel Sonlight's descriptions will be glowing ones (they want to sell the material, after all), and I want more objective opinions on the literature before I make my decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yes, this would more accurately describe how I felt. I tried looking at the new catalog yesterday. I saw several new book titles and, of course, didn't have a clue what they were about. They probably are really good books but I don't want to go online to look at every description. I will now stop trying to beat a dead horse. :D I know sadly it is DEAD DEAD DEAD Beyond dead, I'm still so sad. They are so interested in selling the huge multisubject packages, they don't care for anyone else. Wonder how long the multisubject package people will last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Hmm, maybe the lack of book descriptions doesn't bother me as much, because I always go to Amazon and look them up anyway. I like reading their customer reviews before I decide I want to use a book and I always make a wishlist with whatever books Sonlight has recommended for a core to see if I can purchase them less expensively at Amazon. So I guess it doesn't really make a difference, since I always feel Sonlight's descriptions will be glowing ones (they want to sell the material, after all), and I want more objective opinions on the literature before I make my decision. Well when I started using them back in the dark ages. there was no amazon. so book descriptions really pulled us in. and since then since I own just about all the cores, I do read the descriptions to see if I want the newer books added in. I gave the catalog to my youngest in 2010 and asked him to read the new books and which did he want me to add in. He choose one from that. Don't think I could get him to look for them on the computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10Newtons Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 ANyone have the link to the PDF version of the new catalog? Surprised I haven't gotten mine yet....but I havne't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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