Official Beast Academy guinea pigs thread!

[Halcyon]

Posted on another thread that we got our copies yesterday. Younger is very happy, and has gotten through the section on scalene and obtuse triangles. I have to admit, though, he needs to reread the comics twice because he tends to read too fast, and misses stuff. Other than that, it's a big hit.

 

He went to bed with them last night :tongue_smilie:

[crazyforlatin]

My son was commenting how many ideas in BA are also present in this book. He was trying to trick my husband last night with a problem of triangle (the two shorter sides must be...) Anyways, if you don't already have this book, it's a must have for your little math lovers.

 

Thanks for the book recommendation; I was hoping to supplement Beast with similar problems.

 

I just got the book, Pentomino Puzzles, and it's harder than Beast. I am hoping to improve Dd's visual/spatial skill.

[Snickerdoodle]

My kids like Block by block.

[poetic license]

is it worth it to get these pentominoes as a hands-on manipulative for the exercises? Or do your kids do them in their head or with hand-made manipulatives?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Resources-Rainbow-Pentominoes-LER02866/dp/B000WA3FKU/ref=wl_mb_hu_m_1_dp

[Snickerdoodle]

We just used the pieces from the Blokus game and that was enough. If you don't have that game, maybe you can print the sheet from the website on card stock.

 

It might be overkill to buy all of those unless you think your kids will just like playing with them outside of the BA activities.

[crazyforlatin]

is it worth it to get these pentominoes as a hands-on manipulative for the exercises? Or do your kids do them in their head or with hand-made manipulatives?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Resources-Rainbow-Pentominoes-LER02866/dp/B000WA3FKU/ref=wl_mb_hu_m_1_dp

 

Not worth it. It's almost free to use the ones provided on Beast's website. Besides, if you were to get the linked set, it only gives you 6 of 12 possibilities, although Beast does use only a portion as well. You could even use different colored cardstock paper. It does take time to cut them.

[stripe]

You could also make your own set using the directions listed here

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/resources/puzzles/pentoes/pentoint.htm

 

but I think BA's website has enough.

http://www.beastacademy.com/resources/printables.php

That's all we used. I didn't find cutting them out to be extremely hard.

[Alice]

We started BA about a month ago or so. Ds is loving it. I bought a fun game for our trip to the beach and thought I'd mention it here as it goes well with the BA pentominoe lessons.

 

It's called Kanoodle http://www.amazon.com/Educational-Insights-2978-Kanoodle/dp/B000FGECAI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337312971&sr=8-1 Lots of different levels and both 2D and 3D puzzles. Both my boys have been playing it non-stop and loving it. It's also very portable, perfect for summer trips.

[FairProspects]

Anyone else get bogged down in the skip-counting chapter? This may be a dyslexic issue, but there are zillion problems that seem the same (and require ds to count with a 100s chart over and over which is slow going). Can anyone explain why we would need them all? Ds gets the concept and wants to move on to multiplying and dividing already.

 

The balance section looks worthwhile, and the mazes are fun, but am I missing something? What is the big picture for why ds needs skip-counting? It is showing the multiples, right? If he gets that, can we skip some problems? Anyone else skip problems? (Although this section probably goes a lot faster if you have these patterns memorized - not gonna happen with a dyslexic due to sequencing issues.)

[nikkid]

What is the big picture for why ds needs skip-counting? It is showing the multiples, right?

 

Just a couple observations:

1. Skip counting teaches the reason why we do 'fast adding of the same kind' (multiplication) so we can see what the numbers mean.

2. Skip counting helps if you forget a certain times table fact you can skip count to the next one if you remember. (i.e. If you need to know 7x6 and forgot, but you know 7x5 is 35 you can skip count up from there to get to 42.)

3. Skip counting helps if you need to count multiples of something that's hard to see the times table fact. (i.e. Counting a ton of pills is faster by 2s or 3s but you don't know how many groups you have total to use a times fact, counting quarts in a gallon or pints in a gallon may be easier with skip counting than a times fact, etc.)

 

However, memorizing multiplication facts is still the goal. So if your son doesn't need to see concretely what the times table facts mean and is asking to do multiplication, especially if there are learning challenges, then maybe it's okay to not drill skip counting to death.

 

Just my thoughts. Hope it helps.

[kitten18]

You people are KILLING me with all the math puzzle books and games you are linking.:tongue_smilie:

 

 

We just used the pieces from the Blokus game and that was enough. If you don't have that game, maybe you can print the sheet from the website on card stock.

 

It might be overkill to buy all of those unless you think your kids will just like playing with them outside of the BA activities.

We used the Blokus pieces too. It's a fantastic game to own anyway.

 

 

 

 

Question - what do you do when you find that you and your dc are not using the same methods to solve problems that the BA people are using. Do you look at the solutions first and try to lead your DC into solving the problem the BA way or do encourage DC to do it their own way?

[Snickerdoodle]

My kids spent the evening yesterday trying to get an ant to walk around their paper mobius strip. :001_huh:

 

Didn't someone post a link to a tesseract their kid made? I can't seem to find it (or maybe I imagined it).

[FairProspects]

Can some of you whose dc are finding the skip-counting chapter super easy explain to me how the kids are going about solving the balancing weights problems? (The ones w/o pics, 100s charts, or diagrams.)

 

Is it just trial and error as to the combinations? Are they at the point where they have memorized the skip counting sequences and it is easy for them to access numbers anywhere in the sequence?

 

For example, balance 39 grams using 11-gram and 7-gram weights. How do they set it up to solve it?

 

Ds is in mega-tears mode and can't even communicate why this is impossible for him, so I'm trying to figure out what we are missing.

[Snickerdoodle]

Why don't you cut out a bunch squares of paper and write 11 or 7 on each one and see if he can organize them in such a way to make 39?

 

Would that help?

[FairProspects]

Why don't you cut out a bunch squares of paper and write 11 or 7 on each one and see if he can organize them in such a way to make 39?

 

Would that help?

 

Well, we tried it with c-rods but he couldn't make it match exactly. Paper might work, but he would still have to slowly add them and try it out over and over.

 

My thought is that the dc finding it easy, are skip-counting quickly in their heads so if their guess is wrong, they are not upset and just try another combo and skip-count again. Ds is so slow at skip-counting that if his first guess is wrong, he loses it. If my suspicion is confirmed, I think we will just skip this section. He knows how to do it, it just takes forever. I was just wondering if there was some kind of shortcut we were missing other than trial and error.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Can some of you whose dc are finding the skip-counting chapter super easy explain to me how the kids are going about solving the balancing weights problems? (The ones w/o pics, 100s charts, or diagrams.)

 

Is it just trial and error as to the combinations? Are they at the point where they have memorized the skip counting sequences and it is easy for them to access numbers anywhere in the sequence?

 

For example, balance 39 grams using 11-gram and 7-gram weights. How do they set it up to solve it?

 

Ds is in mega-tears mode and can't even communicate why this is impossible for him, so I'm trying to figure out what we are missing.

 

For DS9, I would say it's a combination of being able to call on memorized facts knowledge and rapid, virtually imperceptible trial and error. In the problem you used for an example, he could immediately see that 39 minus 11 is 28, which is divisible by 7 4x. But DS sees numbers. These problems would drive DD batty. BATTY! She is one smart cookie, but BA might not work for her as well as it does for DS9. In your shoes, I would move past that section and come back to it later. Or do lots of the problems with him, explicitly showing him how to use trial and error to problem solve. I see no point in tear-inducing math when time could cure the problem.

[nmoira]

Can some of you whose dc are finding the skip-counting chapter super easy explain to me how the kids are going about solving the balancing weights problems? (The ones w/o pics, 100s charts, or diagrams.)

 

Is it just trial and error as to the combinations? Are they at the point where they have memorized the skip counting sequences and it is easy for them to access numbers anywhere in the sequence?

 

For example, balance 39 grams using 11-gram and 7-gram weights. How do they set it up to solve it?

 

Ds is in mega-tears mode and can't even communicate why this is impossible for him, so I'm trying to figure out what we are missing.

Start with one 11g weight. That leaves 28g. Can we skip count by 7s to 28? Yes, four times. [Otherwise, try with two 11g weights.] Edited June 1, 2012 by nmoira

[Spy Car]

Start with one 11g weight. That leaves 28g. Can we skip counting by 7s to 28? Yes, four times. [Otherwise, try with two 11g weights.]

 

This.

 

Bill

[Alte Veste Academy]

Start with one 11g weight. That leaves 28g. Can we skip count by 7s to 28? Yes, four times. [Otherwise, try with two 11g weights.]

 

See, now in this case it just happened to be that trial and error was extraordinarily short because the first trial of subtracting 11 resulted in an easy to see answer. But if the first trial had instead been subtracting 7, leaving 32, the answer would not have come so quickly. It is then that the fast skip counting or just knowing the times tables "by heart" would be invaluable.

 

I would keep on plugging with skip counting and times tables before asking my kids to do very many problems like this. Otherwise it is just an exercise in frustration.

[nmoira]

 

See, now in this case it just happened to be that trial and error was extraordinarily short because the first trial of subtracting 11 resulted in an easy to see answer. But if the first trial had instead been subtracting 7, leaving 32, the answer would not have come so quickly. It is then that the fast skip counting or just knowing the times tables "by heart" would be invaluable.

True, but after figuring out that 39 can't be done with just 11s or 7s, I think a child can see it makes sense to use the bigger weight, as there won't be more than 3 of them (11, 22, 33). I'd let the child know it's OK write down the multiples the very first time so they don't have to do it repeatedly. Mathematicians are lazy. :001_smile:

[FairProspects]

See, now in this case it just happened to be that trial and error was extraordinarily short because the first trial of subtracting 11 resulted in an easy to see answer. But if the first trial had instead been subtracting 7, leaving 32, the answer would not have come so quickly. It is then that the fast skip counting or just knowing the times tables "by heart" would be invaluable.

 

I would keep on plugging with skip counting and times tables before asking my kids to do very many problems like this. Otherwise it is just an exercise in frustration.

 

Ok, this is basically what I thought. But if I wait for this, I will be waiting years. With the dyslexia, I was told not to expect this kind of fluency until adolescence and to use charts until then. Yep, we'll just skip this section and move onto the charts. Those ds can access visually. Other dyslexics thinking of BA, take note - the skip counting chapter may not work for you!!

[Spy Car]

See, now in this case it just happened to be that trial and error was extraordinarily short because the first trial of subtracting 11 resulted in an easy to see answer. But if the first trial had instead been subtracting 7, leaving 32, the answer would not have come so quickly. It is then that the fast skip counting or just knowing the times tables "by heart" would be invaluable.

 

I would keep on plugging with skip counting and times tables before asking my kids to do very many problems like this. Otherwise it is just an exercise in frustration.

 

I would think that moving along in a methodical fashion (which is what Moira is suggesting) would be more time-consuming when there were arguably "harder" answers. But ultimately is all just skip-counting practice plus being "methodical."

 

There are advantages to the practice, and there are advantages to learning to be methodical. What is not good is to be floundering not understanding the "method." This last case is where I would lead the child (hopefully minimally, and by asking questions...but teaching directly if necessary) into finding the "method" then letting them work thorough the skip-counting exercise while employing the problem solving method "methodically."

 

My guess? They may or may not remember this particular problem solving method years off in the future. But I do think they will remember the value of being "methodical." I could be wrong :D

 

Bill

[Alte Veste Academy]

Ok, this is basically what I thought. But if I wait for this, I will be waiting years. With the dyslexia, I was told not to expect this kind of fluency until adolescence and to use charts until then. Yep, we'll just skip this section and move onto the charts. Those ds can access visually. Other dyslexics thinking of BA, take note - the skip counting chapter may not work for you!!

 

OK, I know nothing about dyslexia, but if the fix until fluency is charts, why not just let him do the section with a chart handy? He can physically skip along the chart. Or, if that is still too tedious, print out skip counting charts for each number. I love these. Then, for the problem above, give him the chart for 11 and the one for 7 and see if he can do it.

 

It is the process thinking that matters to me, whether the facts come from a chart or his head. If the process isn't taking, even with the charts, skip it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I would think that moving along in a methodical fashion (which is what Moira is suggesting) would be more time-consuming when there were arguably "harder" answers. But ultimately is all just skip-counting practice plus being "methodical."

 

There are advantages to the practice, and there are advantages to learning to be methodical. What is not good is to be floundering not understanding the "method." This last case is where I would lead the child (hopefully minimally, and by asking questions...but teaching directly if necessary) into finding the "method" then letting them work thorough the skip-counting exercise while employing the problem solving method "methodically."

 

My guess? They may or may not remember this particular problem solving method years off in the future. But I do think they will remember the value of being "methodical." I could be wrong :D

 

Bill

 

Well, I have always wondered if there is any method at all to DS9's mathematical madness... :tongue_smilie:

 

I do know it makes him mad to use someone else's methods... :lol::glare:

[FairProspects]

My guess? They may or may not remember this particular problem solving method years off in the future. But I do think they will remember the value of being "methodical." I could be wrong :D

 

Bill

 

You may be correct with a neurotypical child, and I probably would approach it this way with ds 2. But when you have other processing issues going on, being "methodical" is a bit more like :banghead:. It doesn't matter how many times it is processed that way, it is not going to stick or help.

 

It's okay. Ds found the tetromino chapter to be a breeze when everyone else was sweating. I knew skip-counting would not be that easy for him.

[FairProspects]

OK, I know nothing about dyslexia, but if the fix until fluency is charts, why not just let him do the section with a chart handy? He can physically skip along the chart. Or, if that is still too tedious, print out skip counting charts for each number. I love these. Then, for the problem above, give him the chart for 11 and the one for 7 and see if he can do it.

 

It is the process thinking that matters to me, whether the facts come from a chart or his head. If the process isn't taking, even with the charts, skip it.

 

Yes, those charts are awesome! Why didn't I think of that? I've actually seen those before. I think I may try Nmoira's way too, and just tell him to start by subtracting the larger weight. Maybe that will help.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Well, we tried it with c-rods but he couldn't make it match exactly. Paper might work, but he would still have to slowly add them and try it out over and over.

 

How did you try it with the c-rods? Did you have him make 39 into one long number and then give him a pile of 11 rods (10+1, obviously...I'm still using the c-rods that can be linked to one another and I don't want to hear about it, Spy Car!) and 7 rods to play around with? I'm surprised that wouldn't work. If he had an easy time with the tetrominos, it sounds like he's pretty visual.

 

ETA: 11 rods don't exist, of course.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[FairProspects]

How did you try it with the c-rods? Did you have him make 39 into one long number and then give him a pile of 11 rods (10+1, obviously...I'm still using the c-rods that can be linked to one another and I don't want to hear about it, Spy Car!) and 7 rods to play around with? I'm surprised that wouldn't work. If he had an easy time with the tetrominos, it sounds like he's pretty visual.

 

ETA: 11 rods don't exist, of course.

 

Ack, no! My brain is clearly not firing properly this morning. That would have actually worked. I lined them up by 10s and a 9, which is how I like to visualize it, but I am so NOT spatial!! Moments like this make me think I really should not homeschool my math/science child...I'm still off in my happy place of history planning.

[Spy Car]

You may be correct with a neurotypical child, and I probably would approach it this way with ds 2. But when you have other processing issues going on, being "methodical" is a bit more like :banghead:. It doesn't matter how many times it is processed that way, it is not going to stick or help.

 

It's okay. Ds found the tetromino chapter to be a breeze when everyone else was sweating. I knew skip-counting would not be that easy for him.

 

I'm not sure I understand.

 

Does he/could he understand the method as outlined in Moira's post? Could he understand that are a "direction" given my you? Could you say we will try 1-Eleven and see if that works, then if not we will try 2-Elevens, then you lead the effort?

 

Or is it that doing the skip-counting itself that is too hard? If this is the issue, I would make what ever accommodation (like a chart) you felt was best.

 

You could do it with C Rods and keep regrouping them. I don't know e way dyslexic brains work but I would try this to see how it worked for sure.

 

If it takes him longer to get the skip-counting, so what! He will get it in time. But I do think you want to run through the "method" and thereby practicing being "methodical" even if he need a "chart" (if that is the problem, I'm still not clear).

 

It is cool how much success you've had with his math recently.

 

Bill

[Alte Veste Academy]

Ack, no! My brain is clearly not firing properly this morning. That would have actually worked. I lined them up by 10s and a 9, which is how I like to visualize it, but I am so NOT spatial!! Moments like this make me think I really should not homeschool my math/science child...

 

LOL ME TOO! Last night I handed DH the TG for Snap Circuits that I ordered, convinced that it would be great to make the Snap Circuits move from toy status to educational status. Yeah, that's only going to happen if DH uses that TG with him. (And he probably wouldn't even technically need it but whatever. :lol: He did think it was really good and well done...blah, blah, blah...)

[Spy Car]

How did you try it with the c-rods? Did you have him make 39 into one long number and then give him a pile of 11 rods (10+1, obviously...I'm still using the c-rods that can be linked to one another and I don't want to hear about it, Spy Car!) and 7 rods to play around with? I'm surprised that wouldn't work. If he had an easy time with the tetrominos, it sounds like he's pretty visual.

 

ETA: 11 rods don't exist, of course.

 

We cross posted (or did I just steal your really good idea?) I'll never tell :D

 

And those "things" you're using are not Cuisenaire Rods...no matter what some company pasted on the box :glare:

 

Bill

[Alte Veste Academy]

And those "things" you're using are not Cuisenaire Rods...no matter what some company pasted on the box :glare:

 

Oh, well, naturally. In this case, c-rod stands for Crappy-Imitation Rods. :D;)

[Spy Car]

On a completely side-note.

 

I enjoyed a particularly delicious chocolate bar today. It was a gift from one of our Second Grade teachers at school. We have always been friendly (she is a bit of a math geek) and I was really sad our son did not have her this year.

 

Anyway, a couple weeks ago a loaned her my BA 3A books and she started reading them to her class. They loved it. And they've ode red books for her classroom. How cool is that!?

 

Bill

[FairProspects]

Or is it that doing the skip-counting itself that is too hard? If this is the issue, I would make what ever accommodation (like a chart) you felt was best.

 

If it takes him longer to get the skip-counting, so what! He will get it in time. But I do think you want to run through the "method" and thereby practicing being "methodical" even if he need a "chart" (if that is the problem, I'm still not clear).

 

It is cool how much success you've had with his math recently.

 

Bill

 

Yup, this is the problem. It is fairly typical for dyslexics to have problems with the language sequencing part of skip-counting. They can't recall the sequence.

 

The other issue is attentional, he knows how long it will take to count, and he balks at doing it by trial and error because of that. Now, I've been having him skip-count with a 100s chart, which he loathes. The charts Alte Viste linked to may completely eliminate that problem.

 

And thanks!

[Dolphin]

Well, ds son finished Beast Academy 3B today.

 

We are going to have him re-read from the beginning, I am really wanting 3C now.

[FairProspects]

Well, 3C should be out in July, right? So at least you don't have that long to wait. Although, at that speed I'm sure he'll be through it before 3D comes out.

 

So, now we are in perimeter and area and ds insists that the answer to problem 22 is wrong and it is solvable because despite them not giving you enough horizontal measurements, the length of the side is easily intuited spatially. He is indeed correct, and I measured it in mm. I'm having a hard time explaining to him that the answer should be impossible because they don't give you enough info, because he just insists you should then go figure it out yourself and solve it. Oy, vey. I give up.:lol:

[Calendula]

How to you help your kids work through the tricky problems in BA? How do you balance sitting with a problem that is hard, but also minimize frustration??

[Spy Car]

How to you help your kids work through the tricky problems in BA? How do you balance sitting with a problem that is hard, but also minimize frustration??

 

With BA, or any other program we might be using where the challenge suddenly gets a little too steep, my usual tact is to ask minimally invasive questions that I think will help him set up the problem in his mind.

 

Sometimes it can be as simple as things like "what are they asking us?" or "what do we know?" And, on occasion, I will work the problem if Socratic means fail.

 

It is a balancing act. It is good for children (especially the math adept) to sometimes struggle through problem solving through their own genius. But we also need to be realistic about their levels of maturity and the negative sides of frustration. This is where parent need to trust their inner-intelligence and their understanding of their individual child.

 

Bill

[Rivka]

With BA, or any other program we might be using where the challenge suddenly gets a little too steep, my usual tact is to ask minimally invasive questions that I think will help him set up the problem in his mind.

 

Sometimes it can be as simple as things like "what are they asking us?" or "what do we know?" And, on occasion, I will work the problem if Socratic means fail.

 

It is a balancing act. It is good for children (especially the math adept) to sometimes struggle through problem solving through their own genius. But we also need to be realistic about their levels of maturity and the negative sides of frustration.

 

:iagree: Some things that I've found myself saying in the "Perfect Squares" chapter of Beast Academy:

 

- Do you have an idea about where you could get started with this?

- Why don't you label/write down what you know.

- Try reading the question again - out loud this time.

- Why don't you draw a picture of what you're trying to do.

- They're not going to ask you to do something they haven't taught you how to do. That means that there must be a way to make this problem look like one you know how to solve.

- What do you notice about these numbers? What can you say about them?

- What are your options here? (For example, if the puzzle says the answer is a perfect square less than 100, what are the perfect squares less than 100?)

[Dolphin]

Well, 3C should be out in July, right? So at least you don't have that long to wait. Although, at that speed I'm sure he'll be through it before 3D comes out.

 

But I want it now:D !

 

Really, ds wants it, he is so excited about it, this is such a change from a year ago when Math was his least favorite thing in existence. Thank you TT, LOF, and BA!

 

So Bill, Rivka, or any other Math Gurus out there. What else can we do that is fun while filling in time between BA releases?

 

I am not that good at Math myself, dh does the corrections and teaching. I however look into a research the curriculum's and manipulatives that magically appear in our house.

 

DS is 9 (for a few more days) and finishing up 4th grade. We pulled him out after 2nd grade. I wanted to do Singapore Math with him, but there were just too many holes to fill in with his Math education for that and we had tears.

 

We did a year of Kumon, then we started TT. He likes that and is over 3/4 of the way through TT4, we are going to keep going through the summer with the goal of him finishing TT5 around Christmas of next year. He is half way through LOF dogs and doing about a book a month with that.

 

We had him take the iready test in April and the results were:

Algebra and Algebraic thinking he is at level (Thank you Kumon, I think)

Numbers and Operations he is approaching level 4

Measurement and data needs improvement

Geometry needs improvement.

 

Math Mammoth just did not work for us. I was wondering about Minquon and c-rods. Is there something else, fun and supplemental that might help strengthen his math skills. He has made so much progress, I just want him to keep up the momentum.

 

Thanks!

[stripe]

What else can we do that is fun while filling in time between BA releases?

Marilyn Burns, Theoni Pappas, Martin Gardner, more pentominoes

[Rosie]

So, now we are in perimeter and area and ds insists that the answer to problem 22 is wrong and it is solvable because despite them not giving you enough horizontal measurements, the length of the side is easily intuited spatially. He is indeed correct, and I measured it in mm. I'm having a hard time explaining to him that the answer should be impossible because they don't give you enough info, because he just insists you should then go figure it out yourself and solve it. Oy, vey. I give up.:lol:

 

My daughter did the same thing! Wouldn't believe the solution manual... so I had her write to Jason Batterson! LOL! He responded promptly with a great reply and she finally grudgingly gave in... but I think it was more because he's not MOM than because she thought he was right. They may need to change that problem in the next printing!

[Spy Car]

So Bill, Rivka, or any other Math Gurus out there. What else can we do that is fun while filling in time between BA releases?

 

 

We have enjoyed Ed Zaccaro's Primary Grade Challenge Math. He has a gift for making advanced topic seem easy.

 

We've also been slowly working through some of the AoPS prealgebra book together. We are working on the chapter on Angles at the moment, which is doable. I am working through the book myself start to finish, but for him I sort of jumped ahead in the book, while pulling in some things from my lessons.

 

Bill

[garddwr]

We haven't gotten very far into BA yet because we're trying to finish up another text, but what little we have done has brought out an aspect of my daughter that I had no idea was there and have been delighted to discover. For background, this is a child who balked at all formal math until just a few months ago because she struggles with perfectionism and high anxiety levels--and she couldn't stand the idea of getting a wrong answer. She actually has a very good grasp of numerical and mathematical concepts, but fear of failure was holding her back. Around the end of February we finally had a breakthrough in her willingness to work through a math text, and she went through MM2B in about 2 months. We're now finishing up MM3A and have dabbled in BA3A. What BA has brought out in her is a determination to figure out the difficult problems on her own--she chews me out thoroughly if I try to help her along or give a hint. I'm delighted! (Although I still have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when she is sitting there with her book complaining about the problem being too hard. I've finally learned that she will in fact keep working on it in spite of the complaints.)

[Spy Car]

We haven't gotten very far into BA yet because we're trying to finish up another text, but what little we have done has brought out an aspect of my daughter that I had no idea was there and have been delighted to discover. For background, this is a child who balked at all formal math until just a few months ago because she struggles with perfectionism and high anxiety levels--and she couldn't stand the idea of getting a wrong answer. She actually has a very good grasp of numerical and mathematical concepts, but fear of failure was holding her back. Around the end of February we finally had a breakthrough in her willingness to work through a math text, and she went through MM2B in about 2 months. We're now finishing up MM3A and have dabbled in BA3A. What BA has brought out in her is a determination to figure out the difficult problems on her own--she chews me out thoroughly if I try to help her along or give a hint. I'm delighted! (Although I still have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when she is sitting there with her book complaining about the problem being too hard. I've finally learned that she will in fact keep working on it in spite of the complaints.)

 

Does anyone know where the Richard Rusczyk (founder of Art of Problem Solving) lecture that includes the portion on perfectionism can be located?

 

I know there is both a video and a transcript (and linked to it myself).

 

Rusczyk speaks of perfectionism as an enemy that AoPS (including BA) is out to destroy. I think you would enjoy reading it.

 

Anyone remember where to find it?

 

Bill

[garddwr]

Does anyone know where the Richard Rusczyk (founder of Art of Problem Solving) lecture that includes the portion on perfectionism can be located?

 

I know there is both a video and a transcript (and linked to it myself).

 

Rusczyk speaks of perfectionism as an enemy that AoPS (including BA) is out to destroy. I think you would enjoy reading it.

 

Anyone remember where to find it?

 

Bill

 

That definitely sounds like something I would like to read.

[wapiti]

Does anyone know where the Richard Rusczyk (founder of Art of Problem Solving) lecture that includes the portion on perfectionism can be located?

 

I know there is both a video and a transcript (and linked to it myself).

 

Rusczyk speaks of perfectionism as an enemy that AoPS (including BA) is out to destroy. I think you would enjoy reading it.

 

Anyone remember where to find it?

 

Bill

 

Do you mean that you lost the links to the 2009 lecture? The links to both the video and the transcript are at the bottom of this page. (For full effect, one can listen to the video while reading the transcript, though in that case it isn't long before you start hearing RR in your head even without the audio :tongue_smilie:)

[Dolphin]

Thank you! I had never even heard of those programs. I am going to open a new window and look these up after posting. So no c-rods or minquon?

 

After I look at those it looks like I have a lecture to listen to as well. Somedays I feel like I come on the board and I am back in High School with homework:D. Only this homework is a lot more fun and I can see a point to it.:D

[slackermom]

We have enjoyed Ed Zaccaro's Primary Grade Challenge Math. He has a gift for making advanced topic seem easy.

In addition to being fun, these problems were the first that DD has encountered that made her realize it would be helpful to write out her steps as she is trying to solve a problem. Yeah! The gradual increase in difficulty within each chapter was just right for her.

 

Do you mean that you lost the links to the 2009 lecture? The links to both the video and the transcript are at the bottom of this page. (For full effect, one can listen to the video while reading the transcript, though in that case it isn't long before you start hearing RR in your head even without the audio :tongue_smilie:)

 

When I first watched the video a while back, I didn't have the transcript, and I spent the whole time writing out page after page of notes and links.:blink:

But it's ok. I :001_wub: Richard Rusczyk.

[garddwr]

Do you mean that you lost the links to the 2009 lecture? The links to both the video and the transcript are at the bottom of this page. (For full effect, one can listen to the video while reading the transcript, though in that case it isn't long before you start hearing RR in your head even without the audio :tongue_smilie:)

 

OK, I finally got around to reading the transcript--thanks Wapiti! Chewing it over now...

 

The perfectionist thing is going to be a real problem in our house, although not I think because it is learned the way R. describes (smart kid always gets 100% so comes to expect that and gives up when s/he can't). As far as I can tell it is a genetic tendency in the family and goes along with anxiety and negative self-talk. Argh! Dh is even worse than dd--I had to push him along every step of applying to MBA programs because even though he had an undergraduate degree from a well-respected business school with a great GPA and several years of work experience behind him, he was convinced his record wasn't "perfect" enough for him to be accepted. I'm determined to help dd develop a more practical perspective on life, but it's an uphill battle.

More challenging work--where 100% is really not a possibility--definitely sounds like part of the answer. Maybe allowing and expecting kids to get 100% is an American thing--part of our "build up their self-esteem" theory? I spent a few years in the French school system and their approach seemed to be the opposite--let's tear down any self-esteem they might accidentally develop! Grades were out of 20 possible points, except the 20 wasn't really possible most of the time! The saying among students was that "20 is for God, 19 is for the teacher, 18 is for the teacher's pet, 17 is for the best student":lol: And it was largely true. My best friend was the class genius, and she once received 18.5 on a history test and was told by the teacher it was the highest grade he had ever awarded in his 20+ years of teaching! As a French learner, it wasn't uncommon for me to receive 0 as a score, especially on dictations as points were taken off for every single spelling or grammar error. I don't personally think that approach helps most kids develop a lot of resiliency either--it's just to discouraging for many and makes success seem impossible--but there must be some middle ground somewhere...

 

Does anyone have a naturally anxious/perfectionist child they are working with? What helps?

 

--Sarah