Hen Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 we sold our first house 'as is' but the buyer came back after inspection with a list of things he wanted us to fix. We fixed two things on the list - one of them was working locks on the back windows, I can't remember the 2nd thing...but the other things listed (including a new garage door) we just said "no". He bought the house anyway. hoping things work out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm so sorry. Since it was being sold as is' date=' that clause should have been stricken from the contract IMO. [/quote']No, because they still have the right to find out anything that's wrong with the house, and to choose not to buy if there's too much work to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannie in NJ Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 ok here is the latest. First of all when our neighbors sold their house in May, their homeinspection came back that pilings needed to be repaired under the house. Since our house and theirs were built at the same time by the same builder we had our realtor mention that to the buyers and give them the quote that our neighbors got (the sellers next door said no to the repairs and the buyers elected not to fix them). So our buyers knew that price up front. okay in our home inspection the pilings issure came up, along with possible pilings under the garage and a couple of sidewalk sections out front. After our buyers canceled yesterday, we had a foundation and piling contractor come in and he gave us a quote to fix pilings under main house , under garage and to repair the sidewalk at a quote of $21,000. Our realtor sent that estimate to our buyers (nothing else needs to be fixed according to home inspection, even the roof is fine and free of leaks). Well our buyer just sent our realtor an email (he won't call and talk to realtor on the phone) and said he wants $25,000 to rescind his cancellation. That is more than the repair cost so dh said NO. Realtor is waiting for a response from buyer. But he is also calling other realtors that had possible clients and letting them know we might be back on the market real soon as by tomorrow. Our realtor said that this could have been the buyers plan from the start, to cancel then ask for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Our realtor said that this could have been the buyers plan from the start, to cancel then ask for money. This seems highly unlikely IMHO. Why would a buyer not just come in with a lower offer to start with if the property has sat on the market for 9 months? Why would they shell out hundreds of dollars for a home inspection if the plan all along was to cancel? Sorry, but I think your realtor is giving you some really bad advice here. I think what happened is the buyer didn't realize the extent of work that needed to be done on the house. When the inspection turned up $21k worth, they decided their original offer was too high given the true condition of the home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannie in NJ Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 then why didn't they just ask us for $21, 000, why did they ask for 25,000. THe piling contractor said that every house in our area needs piling work but no-one ever gets the work done, they just use in when negotiating when buying a house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 ok here is the latest. First of all when our neighbors sold their house in May, their homeinspection came back that pilings needed to be repaired under the house. Since our house and theirs were built at the same time by the same builder we had our realtor mention that to the buyers and give them the quote that our neighbors got (the sellers next door said no to the repairs and the buyers elected not to fix them). So our buyers knew that price up front. okay in our home inspection the pilings issure came up, along with possible pilings under the garage and a couple of sidewalk sections out front. After our buyers canceled yesterday, we had a foundation and piling contractor come in and he gave us a quote to fix pilings under main house , under garage and to repair the sidewalk at a quote of $21,000. Our realtor sent that estimate to our buyers (nothing else needs to be fixed according to home inspection, even the roof is fine and free of leaks). Well our buyer just sent our realtor an email (he won't call and talk to realtor on the phone) and said he wants $25,000 to rescind his cancellation. That is more than the repair cost so dh said NO. Realtor is waiting for a response from buyer. But he is also calling other realtors that had possible clients and letting them know we might be back on the market real soon as by tomorrow. Our realtor said that this could have been the buyers plan from the start, to cancel then ask for money. OK, so the buyers knew about the piling issue, and still elected to purchase the house. The repairs turned out to cost more than they were expecting, based on the quote your neighbors had gotten. Since they were buying the house as-is and already knew about the pilings, they should really only be concerned about the difference in price between the original estimate they were told about, and the current estimate of $21,000... yet, they want $25,000. I think they're pulling a fast one. Weasels. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 then why didn't they just ask us for $21, 000, why did they ask for 25,000. The hassle of having to do the repairs themselves? Wiggle-room in case the actual cost of the repair job ended up being higher than the original estimate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 OK, so the buyers knew about the piling issue, and still elected to purchase the house. The repairs turned out to cost more than they were expecting, based on the quote your neighbors had gotten. Since they were buying the house as-is and already knew about the pilings, they should really only be concerned about the difference in price between the original estimate they were told about, and the current estimate of $21,000... yet, they want $25,000. I think they're pulling a fast one. Weasels. :glare: :iagree: Absolutely. What's the extra 4k for? Pain and suffering? The house was listed "as is". Every house we've looked at as is has stressed they will do no repairs, even after an inspection. Even if they were willing to negotiate after an inspection, they would never have agreed to reduce the price MORE than the repairs cost. They probably wouldn't have even gone half, especially an agree that was known prior to signing the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The hassle of having to do the repairs themselves? Wiggle-room in case the actual cost of the repair job ended up being higher than the original estimate? I feel that responsibility is assumed when you agree to buy as is, you accept that house in the condition presented. You know you might have to do some repairs, and would expect it to be on your dime. I'd be interested to know the difference in estimates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) I feel that responsibility is assumed when you agree to buy as is, you accept that house in the condition presented. You know you might have to do some repairs, and would expect it to be on your dime. :iagree: I might be able to understand the buyer's actions if the issue with the pilings hadn't been brought to his attention before he made his offer on the house, but since he knew about it and knew how much the neighbors were quoted to repair a similar problem, I would assume that he would have compensated for the repair (and at least a few extra thousand dollars for unforeseen things,) in his offer. If he had come back to Jeannie and said the cost of repairing the pilings was $XXX amount higher than anticipated, and asked her to pay for all or part of the difference, I would have understood that. She wouldn't have had to agree to it, but at least the buyer's request would have been more reasonable. Asking for $25,000 seems more like extortion to me. Edited February 25, 2012 by Catwoman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I feel that responsibility is assumed when you agree to buy as is, you accept that house in the condition presented. You know you might have to do some repairs, and would expect it to be on your dime. I'd be interested to know the difference in estimates. Absolutely. That's the whole point of presenting a house in "as is" condition and not "move-in" condition. According to their own inspector, there's one problem with the house--the one problem that was already disclosed. These people did not make their offer in good faith, and IMO, they're not acting ethically. I'd be ready to let them walk, as much as it hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannie in NJ Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Cat, yes they are weasels, actually my dh called them a much stronger word than that. It is now a dead deal, our realtor will be calling the listing agent for the house we were going to buy and tell them now we cannot buy it (we had a contigency on the successful sale and settlement of our house). We feel horrible about it, not only because we love the house but the owners are such nice people and the deal was going so smooth). Our house will be back on the market tomorrow and our realtor already is setting up a possible showing. Here we start all over again. dh said that he wishes he knew which condo they live in a block away and he would got shoot their windows out, he is just kidding of course but we better not ever see them out taking a walk . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I feel that responsibility is assumed when you agree to buy as is, you accept that house in the condition presented. You know you might have to do some repairs, and would expect it to be on your dime. As a buyer, I would expect a seller selling "as is" to refuse to do any repairs but if any major latent defects were discovered in an inspection to come down on the price. Not nit-picky stuff, but anything over $10k we would either get a price reduction or walk away. It's a buyer's market and there are a ton of houses on every street for sale. Sellers might not like it, but that's been the situation for the past several years. You think you can get more money from another buyer? Go right ahead and re-list. The buyer can always go right out and find another house for sale- are you willing to wait another potential 9 months for an offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 As a buyer, I would expect a seller selling "as is" to refuse to do any repairs but if any major latent defects were discovered in an inspection to come down on the price. Not nit-picky stuff, but anything over $10k we would either get a price reduction or walk away. It's a buyer's market and there are a ton of houses on every street for sale. Sellers might not like it, but that's been the situation for the past several years. You think you can get more money from another buyer? Go right ahead and re-list. The buyer can always go right out and find another house for sale- are you willing to wait another potential 9 months for an offer? In this case the buyer was aware of the issue up front, from what it sounds like. Also most of the as is homes we toured were bank owned and they would not negotiate, period. We've also had an advantage over some, so it may not be as big a deal. My dh is was a contractor and would ball park repairs as we walked through a house. We'd generally walk out of a home tour with an idea of how much it would cost to make a house liveable. Our current home was like that, so we knew what the costs would be before we made an offer. It sounds like in this case the buyer knew the flaws going in and is trying to wiggle out of the "as is" clause. That's sneaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This seems highly unlikely IMHO. Why would a buyer not just come in with a lower offer to start with if the property has sat on the market for 9 months? Why would they shell out hundreds of dollars for a home inspection if the plan all along was to cancel? Sorry, but I think your realtor is giving you some really bad advice here. I think what happened is the buyer didn't realize the extent of work that needed to be done on the house. When the inspection turned up $21k worth, they decided their original offer was too high given the true condition of the home. Emotional manipulation at its best. They waited until the seller is most vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Be very careful about showing any weakness to your realtor, no matter how nice he seems to be. This is all about the money. Don't act like you're desperate to get the new house; try to make it seem like there will always be another house out there and very sweetly say that maybe it's time to take a break from looking at houses for a while. You need your realtor to view you as the stronger party here, and to think he may not be getting any commissions from you if this deal doesn't work out. This is SO true. Never, never, never tip your hand to your Realtor, who is merely a middleman. You simply give your decisions to your Realtor; the Realtor is not equipped to give advice because he has an inherent conflict of interest even in the best of scenarios, in my view, having dealt with a number of them of them in a variety of transactions over the years. Never say things like, "Well, if the Seller doesn't take this offer, we can go up." or "If the buyer refuses, we will concede...." You decide what you will do and then you reveal it at the appropriate time to act. The Realtor is equipped to give you location advice, but never forget the ultimate goal - to get a commission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Emotional manipulation at its best. They waited until the seller is most vulnerable. I swear there should be post home buying and selling counseling worked into the closing costs. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannie in NJ Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 yes, every house in our end of the island was built about 30-40 years ago and it is a given that the pilings need repaired. We gave the buyers a quote from our neighbors house which is an identical house to us. We gave them this quote before they made an offer on our house. When we got the actual quote for piling work on our house, we would have reduced the price difference which was about 6,000 not including if they wanted to repair the pilings under the garage and the 2 sections of sidewalk. The total difference (including the garage pilings and sidewalk would have been about 11 thousand. Nothing else needed repaired. It would have been very hard for us to come up with 11,000, impossible to come up with 25,000 and we don't even know how they came up with that amount. We told them up front that as far as we knew, the piling quote would be around 10,000 , they used that to decide on their offer price. When the quote actually came back at 21,000 including the additional pilings under the garage which we had not known about and the 2 sections of sidewalk . , we would have paid the difference of 11,000 They made their offer knowing of the estimate of 10,000 but would ;not accept us paying the additional cost of 11,000. They were demanding 25,000 which we could not come up with. I am sorry if this is all confusing. I am still very upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This seems highly unlikely IMHO. Why would a buyer not just come in with a lower offer to start with if the property has sat on the market for 9 months? Why would they shell out hundreds of dollars for a home inspection if the plan all along was to cancel? Sorry, but I think your realtor is giving you some really bad advice here. I think what happened is the buyer didn't realize the extent of work that needed to be done on the house. When the inspection turned up $21k worth, they decided their original offer was too high given the true condition of the home. Agree. It could have been the plan, but probably was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The hassle of having to do the repairs themselves? Wiggle-room in case the actual cost of the repair job ended up being higher than the original estimate? Yes, it is a big pain to have to do a bunch of repairs and they always, always, always cost at least 50% more than you think they will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Agree. It could have been the plan, but probably was not. If it wasn't, they would have only wanted the $11K difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This is SO true. Never, never, never tip your hand to your Realtor, who is merely a middleman. You simply give your decisions to your Realtor; the Realtor is not equipped to give advice because he has an inherent conflict of interest even in the best of scenarios, in my view, having dealt with a number of them of them in a variety of transactions over the years. Never say things like, "Well, if the Seller doesn't take this offer, we can go up." or "If the buyer refuses, we will concede...."You decide what you will do and then you reveal it at the appropriate time to act. The Realtor is equipped to give you location advice, but never forget the ultimate goal - to get a commission. I beg to differ. As a licensed real estate agent, my goal is to create happy, satisfied clients during the process of selling or buying a home. In doing so I earn a commission. Very big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) I would like to see the actual language of the Purchase Agreement. I've also not seen any language permitting the buyer to cancel "for any reason" in reference to any sale, much less and as-is sale. Here, it would have to be for a major reason affecting the habitability of the home and NOT previously disclosed. If it has been disclosed in an as-is sale (or any sale), there is no basis for cancellation. I would also love to see a copy of this so called bogus contract. Here is what should have been done by YOUR realtor. This is NOT a state by state thing. This is a standard P+S your realtor should have used. http://www.richhaen.com/pdf/sample_docs/P_AND_S_SINGLE_MULTI_FAM.pdf Pay close attention to clause 20 and 21. Also, there are Riders that need to be attached to this P+S form. Especially since: 1. Your agent who was representing you, decided to enter into a dual agency contract with YOUR buyer. She has to, by law notify you of this in writing and you must agree and understand that your agent is now acting as a dual agent and cannot offer either party legal counsel, or advice. 2. Your property was being sold as is. If you knew of a situation, as you stated that there was a problem with your foundation or something?(can't remember). That has to be disclosed in your MLS listing, and along with the offer to purchase. IOW, the buyers are now aware what that "as is" means. So if they like the home, knowing this is an issue this does not give them the LEGAL right to just walk away. What the buyer CAN do, is still request money back at the closing for the repairs, and if you refuse to, and it is put in writing by the date of the home inspection, then they can cancel the deal. If the request is not placed in writing by the deadline of the home inspection timeframe, the the realtor has to, by law, request an extension from the sellers. If the date has passed and the buyers have requested repairs to be done on the home, the contract is now null and void, and you as the SELLER, can request to keep the deposit and even sue the sellers for monetary damages. ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE IN A CONTRACT TO PURCHASE ANOTHER HOME. 3. A buyer cannot just walk away because they changed their minds. This is not legal. Nowhere. They can walk away if the home inspections can not be negotiated between buyer and seller, or they cannot obtain mortage financing. And again, the buyers must obtain mortgage financing by said date on P+S agreement. If the agent feels that the buyers cannot get the approval in time. The buyers agent, by law must present to the seller an extension to give the buyer more time to obtain financing. The seller does not have to agree to the extension. But the buyers could then, get their deposit back. And the buyers would have to prove that they could not obtain financing. I think your agent is an idiot. Sorry. But there is no way I would ever get myself into a dual agency situation. She does not have your best interests at heart. And to have any contract state that the buyer can walk away for any reason, is illegal. I would be contacting the Board of Realtors in your area, and find out what your rights are with this bogus contract of yours. And I would still seek out legal counsel. You got screwed big time by your agent, and I feels bad for you that there are still weasly agents out there just trying to make a buck off their customers. :grouphug::grouphug: Edited February 25, 2012 by dancer67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I beg to differ. As a licensed real estate agent, my goal is to create happy, satisfied clients during the process of selling or buying a home. In doing so I earn a commission. Very big difference. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I beg to differ. As a licensed real estate agent, my goal is to create happy, satisfied clients during the process of selling or buying a home. In doing so I earn a commission. Very big difference. Sadly, though, that is not always the case. (Ask me how I know. :glare:) We may be looking at some homes in the near future, and I hope I am able to find an agent like you. You have the priorities I wish all professionals would aspire toward, no matter what their line of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I beg to differ. As a licensed real estate agent, my goal is to create happy, satisfied clients during the process of selling or buying a home. In doing so I earn a commission. Very big difference. Some agwnts feel this way, some do not. The first realtor we used wanted us to offer $10000 above asking price and no repairs or anything. We offered $5000 less and no repairs. We were negotiating the final details....closing date and costs, otherwise a done deal. She went oit of town and did not respond to the selling agent so they cancelled the contract negotiations. We bought a for sale by owner instead. When we were looking the second time around the agent we went with first had no interest in dealing with our low budget, we had to find houses and tell her what we wanted to see, she refused to take us to a few. We switched realtors. The new realtor found us a house amd we had it under contract in a week. She brought a housewarming gift the day we closed and checked with is a month later to be sire everything was still going well. Our selling agents in MO, like I said, were willing to pay for repairs to get the house sold. When negotiating the.contract. the second and final time, we were on the phone all day to get the details ironed out. I was exhausted! Bit they stayed on top of it and we had a contract in 3 hours of the first offer. The house, by then, needed a new roof from storm damage, they helped with the insurance and roofing process. So we have had two good and two bad and we have owned two houses. I have no problem dropping a bad realtor now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 dancer67: http://www.richhaen.com/pdf/sample_docs/P_AND_S_SINGLE_MULTI_FAM.pdf Pay close attention to clause 20 and 21. Hmm. Very interesting. 1. Your agent who was representing you, decided to enter into a dual agency contract with YOUR buyer. She has to, by law notify you of this in writing and you must agree and understand that your agent is now acting as a dual agent and cannot offer either party legal counsel, or advice. No Realtor is ever qualified to offer legal counsel. Only attorneys are qualified to offer legal counsel. I've seen some "advice" offered that is really, really bad too. 2. Your property was being sold as is. If you knew of a situation, as you stated that there was a problem with your foundation or something?(can't remember). That has to be disclosed in your MLS listing, and along with the offer to purchase. IOW, the buyers are now aware what that "as is" means. So if they like the home, knowing this is an issue this does not give them the LEGAL right to just walk away. What the buyer CAN do, is still request money back at the closing for the repairs, and if you refuse to, and it is put in writing by the date of the home inspection, then they can cancel the deal. If the request is not placed in writing by the deadline of the home inspection timeframe, the the realtor has to, by law, request an extension from the sellers. If the date has passed and the buyers have requested repairs to be done on the home, the contract is now null and void, and you as the SELLER, can request to keep the deposit and even sue the sellers for monetary damages. ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE IN A CONTRACT TO PURCHASE ANOTHER HOME. Not sure about the necessity to place an extension request BY LAW. Perhaps by local custom. If there is no extension request placed, and the conditions have not been met, the deal is simply dead, unless I'm misunderstanding something here. 3. A buyer cannot just walk away because they changed their minds. This is not legal. Nowhere. That's correct. There must be terms that were not met according to the purchase agreement. I think your agent is an idiot. Sorry. But there is no way I would ever get myself into a dual agency situation. She does not have your best interests at heart. And to have any contract state that the buyer can walk away for any reason, is illegal. You are correct. It cannot possibly read that way, that one party can breach at will. There has to be more to this story. I would be contacting the Board of Realtors in your area, and find out what your rights are with this bogus contract of yours. And I would still seek out legal counsel. It is ALWAYS best to have legal counsel. Always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 In this case the buyer was aware of the issue up front, from what it sounds like. Also most of the as is homes we toured were bank owned and they would not negotiate, period. Bank-owned properties are typically listed at rock-bottom prices with the understanding on the part of the buyer that there will probably need work done, possibly extensive. We've also had an advantage over some, so it may not be as big a deal. My dh is was a contractor and would ball park repairs as we walked through a house. We'd generally walk out of a home tour with an idea of how much it would cost to make a house liveable. Our current home was like that, so we knew what the costs would be before we made an offer. Most potential home buyers aren't contractors and many have only the vaguest sense how much a potential repair might cost (if the need for the repair is even evident to begin with). I could see that a kitchen needs updating or that a roof is getting to the end of its expected life, do a mental calculation of what it would likely take to fix those, & factor that into the initial offer. However, a lot of things I couldn't hazard a guess. I don't think this is necessarily a case of emotional manipulation at all. Maybe it is, but I think it's a result of a buyer's market enabling potential buyers to be aggressive on pricing. Sellers need to get it through their heads that this isn't 2006... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 3. A buyer cannot just walk away because they changed their minds. This is not legal. Nowhere. They can walk away if the home inspections can not be negotiated between buyer and seller... I agree with most of what you said, but isn't the above the crux of the issue here? The buyers are insisting on $25K for the repairs, which were slightly more extensive than Jeannie thought, and Jeannie and her DH won't agree to knocking the $25K off. Thus, the results of the home inspection can't be negotiated, and the buyers are walking. They're not walking away just because they changed their minds (supposedly). No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) I don't think this is necessarily a case of emotional manipulation at all. Maybe it is, but I think it's a result of a buyer's market enabling potential buyers to be aggressive on pricing. Sellers need to get it through their heads that this isn't 2006... Jeannie pointed out that the issue of the pilings was presented to the buyers upfront, and they presented their offer, which was lower than they originally planned because they expected to have to pay around $10K in repairs. So they already got $10K off the price of the house, in their minds, to pay for the pilings. Now the pilings are going to cost $21K to fix, but they want $25K from the sellers, and they waited until the last possible second to present this to the sellers. No, it's not 2006 anymore, but how is this ethical dealing and not manipulation? I'm all for driving a hard bargain, but not like this. And yes, I'd rather sit in my unsold house than cave to it. Selling season is just about upon us here in the Northeast. I'd rather wait and see what spring at the beach brings to the real estate market, personally. Edited February 26, 2012 by melissel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Bank-owned properties are typically listed at rock-bottom prices with the understanding on the part of the buyer that there will probably need work done, possibly extensive. Unfortunately this is not always true in our area. Many foreclosed homes sit at near retail price while they sit empty and decay. I've seen many homes still listed at the same high price they were 16 months ago when we bought our house. According to our realtor part of the issue is that these properties are owned by out of state banks. They don't understand our local market, and they have no vested interest in seeing the property move. I'm sure the real estate market in your area is vastly different from ours. In our area as is homes, banked owned or not, are traditionally sold at a lower price with the implicit understanding that no repairs will be done by the seller. Inspections can be done for the buyers benefit, but they don't enter into the negotiations. Obviously it's not 2006, but I would still say a contract is a binding agreement. Obviously the OP can't make the seller complete the purchase, but there should be some recourse to them breaking the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 In California is is absolutely legal for a buyer to cancel the sale after inspection without losing their deposit so long as it is within the contingency period (17 days is apparently standard but the offer can state some other time frame). The boilerplate language in our offer saying that the buyer MAY request the seller make repairs but it doesn't require it. The seller can cancel the contract if the buyer refuses to lift the inspection contingency by the specified date but the seller has to return the deposit. The seller keeps the deposit only if the buyer has removed the contingency & subsequently backs out. The above was all in the boilerplate language of our offer. I'm not a real estate attorney but I can't imagine that a realtor would use boilerplate that did not accurately reflect CA law. And if for some bizarre reason one did, the seller's realtor would not have the seller sign it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannie in NJ Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Melissa you are correct in your post as to what happened. Also the buying at down the shore is just about to start. We may even have a showing tomorrow, will find out in the morning. We are used to anywhere from 15 min. to up to 1 day advance notice so can show our house at any time. Also anyone buying our shore home is buying for the sunsets and the intercoastal waterway and wetlands behind our house (no houses behind us at all) and about a min. drive or maybe 5 min. walk to the ocean and beach. People should not be buying for stinkin pilings that no one on our block has ever fixed and no house has fallen down yet. We are the only house here for sale and the season is just starting. We were on the market for 8 of those 9 months at an incredible high price (dh was a rockhead about price) and now we are way below market value. Next door neighbors sold in May for 50.000above our asking price and they do not have the 2 story addition that we do. We had just lowered our price when we got the offer that was just canceled so now we will be back on the market at our lower asking price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Melissa you are correct in your post as to what happened. Also the buying at down the shore is just about to start. We may even have a showing tomorrow, will find out in the morning. We are used to anywhere from 15 min. to up to 1 day advance notice so can show our house at any time. Also anyone buying our shore home is buying for the sunsets and the intercoastal waterway and wetlands behind our house (no houses behind us at all) and about a min. drive or maybe 5 min. walk to the ocean and beach. People should not be buying for stinkin pilings that no one on our block has ever fixed and no house has fallen down yet. We are the only house here for sale and the season is just starting. We were on the market for 8 of those 9 months at an incredible high price (dh was a rockhead about price) and now we are way below market value. Next door neighbors sold in May for 50.000above our asking price and they do not have the 2 story addition that we do. We had just lowered our price when we got the offer that was just canceled so now we will be back on the market at our lower asking price. Go get 'em, Jeannie. I hope you get to move into your new dream home as soon as possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenL Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'm sorry, Jeannie. :grouphug: The whole situation stinks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 As a buyer, I would expect a seller selling "as is" to refuse to do any repairs but if any major latent defects were discovered in an inspection to come down on the price. Not nit-picky stuff, but anything over $10k we would either get a price reduction or walk away. It's a buyer's market and there are a ton of houses on every street for sale. Sellers might not like it, but that's been the situation for the past several years. You think you can get more money from another buyer? Go right ahead and re-list. The buyer can always go right out and find another house for sale- are you willing to wait another potential 9 months for an offer?[/QUOTE] Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Wait a few days and then counter back. My guess is that the buyers are trying to see how low you will go. Aggressively showing the house to others is absolutely the right thing to do, but there is no reason to close out the buyers by not countering them. Just saying no stops the discussion, but countering back at the original terms keeps your talking. Or counter at 2K less or some other trivial amount. And stop confiding in the realtor, for heaven's sake. He doesn't sound very good, and you don't know what he says to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 As a buyer, I would expect a seller selling "as is" to refuse to do any repairs but if any major latent defects were discovered in an inspection to come down on the price. Not nit-picky stuff, but anything over $10k we would either get a price reduction or walk away. It's a buyer's market and there are a ton of houses on every street for sale. Sellers might not like it, but that's been the situation for the past several years. You think you can get more money from another buyer? Go right ahead and re-list. The buyer can always go right out and find another house for sale- are you willing to wait another potential 9 months for an offer?[/QUOTE] Yup. The market in our area is beginning to shift--big time. I've had two buyers in multiple offer situations already. Neither of them were the winning bid. One poor buyer had it happen three times before he finally got under contract. It may not be as easy for a buyer to find 'the' house at 'the' price this spring. Just sayin'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Curmudgeon Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 ... but I would still say a contract is a binding agreement. Yes it is, but is binding in its entirety. The rights conferred by the contract to buyer are available to the buyer and are binding on the seller, even if the seller and all the seller's friends thinks exercising them is sneaky and underhanded. We bought last spring in Washington State. One interesting clause in the standard local boilerplate concerned the extent of inspection allowed, with respect to oil tanks. The buyer was allowed to ascertain whether a tank was on the property, and its location, but not actually inspect the tank or surroundings. That did not fly with me. The house was heated by an oil furnace, so there was a tank. I did not want to buy an environmental mess, especially so close to a river. I called up a real estate attorney, and asked if he would be available to look over the purchase and sale agreement. His response was that the boilerplate was pretty balanced between buyers and sellers. The agents were working with buyers and sellers, and just wanted something to facilitate the sale. Not something that gave a whole bunch to one half of their clients and shafted the other half. He didn't see any value, to me, in him looking it over. I told him about the oil tank and the oil tank inspection clause and he said that it would make sense to have someone look it over than. Went up to meet him, and he struck the clause and wrote in some other language, but tried to push the issue too much. His language was going to require the seller to pay for the inspection. Seller did not like that, but we settled on I could pay for and have an inspection made. Had the soil around the tank sampled and tested. That cost about three times what we paid for the home inspection, but worth every penny in terms of peace of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 It sounds like you are heading into a good season for another offer. I hope you get another offer soon. You did everything right before, I'm sorry you had a dud of a buyer. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The market in our area is beginning to shift--big time. I've had two buyers in multiple offer situations already. Neither of them were the winning bid. One poor buyer had it happen three times before he finally got under contract. It may not be as easy for a buyer to find 'the' house at 'the' price this spring. Just sayin'.... FTR, I was saying, yup, I would chance it and relist. Unless I was in a dire situation I would not want to sell to that buyer. Shady and underhanded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 This seems like a remarkably bad idea. It has worked out fine for us, but nothing was shakey or needed much negotiation. He did tell us NOT to tell him just how low we'd go, so he could honestly say he didn't know how low we'd go. He reduced his commission and the seller and I split the savings. I've bought 3 houses, all that way. Never a problem. However, I looked quite awhile and there weren't any red flags in the houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 It's always better to sell in the spring and/or summer, at least in NJ. Best of luck getting another buyer. It'll work out; keep the faith. :grouphug: ok here is the latest. First of all when our neighbors sold their house in May, their homeinspection came back that pilings needed to be repaired under the house. Since our house and theirs were built at the same time by the same builder we had our realtor mention that to the buyers and give them the quote that our neighbors got (the sellers next door said no to the repairs and the buyers elected not to fix them). So our buyers knew that price up front. okay in our home inspection the pilings issure came up, along with possible pilings under the garage and a couple of sidewalk sections out front. After our buyers canceled yesterday, we had a foundation and piling contractor come in and he gave us a quote to fix pilings under main house , under garage and to repair the sidewalk at a quote of $21,000. Our realtor sent that estimate to our buyers (nothing else needs to be fixed according to home inspection, even the roof is fine and free of leaks). Well our buyer just sent our realtor an email (he won't call and talk to realtor on the phone) and said he wants $25,000 to rescind his cancellation. That is more than the repair cost so dh said NO. Realtor is waiting for a response from buyer. But he is also calling other realtors that had possible clients and letting them know we might be back on the market real soon as by tomorrow. Our realtor said that this could have been the buyers plan from the start, to cancel then ask for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyMountain Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 That sucks. I'm sorry. We been on the market a long time too. You gave me hope when you posted that even after being on the market a while you can get a bite. That stinks that just when you were in the home stretch that the rug got pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The market in our area is beginning to shift--big time. I've had two buyers in multiple offer situations already. Neither of them were the winning bid. One poor buyer had it happen three times before he finally got under contract. It may not be as easy for a buyer to find 'the' house at 'the' price this spring. Just sayin'.... Texas real estate is a whole different ball of wax than California. I keep seeing more and more "for sale" signs going up and final sale prices keep falling. There is still a ton of "shadow inventory" as the foreclosures continue to be backlogged. The last of the crazy loans were written in mid-2007 and won't reset until the middle of this year. Figure a 12-18 month time frame to go through the foreclosure process, and we're talking late 2013 or even into 2014 before they stop flooding the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I beg to differ. As a licensed real estate agent, my goal is to create happy, satisfied clients during the process of selling or buying a home. In doing so I earn a commission. I've met "your type". I actually really like my last one. Helpful, not pushy, wise, careful in details. He earned his commission. But I have met snakes. I went far into a sale with one representing a local city (selling off a house they gave to a manager rent free as a perk.) She was doing all the leg work and I bet already knew the "minimum" the city counsel had agreed on. I went through all the hoops, the inspection, the financing, etc, and the LAST final contract had a clause in it about knowing it was next to some city property that may have noise. I balked, visited during the day, and WOW was it loud. Luckily I read all those long pages, every word, and that new paragraph slipped in there hit me between the eyes. Every profession has its jerks. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) I agree with most of what you said, but isn't the above the crux of the issue here? The buyers are insisting on $25K for the repairs, which were slightly more extensive than Jeannie thought, and Jeannie and her DH won't agree to knocking the $25K off. Thus, the results of the home inspection can't be negotiated, and the buyers are walking. They're not walking away just because they changed their minds (supposedly). No? The issue here, as I have read from the OP, is that she knew upfront there was an issue with the home. Knowing this, she listed the house "as is", and the issues of the home should have been stated upfront in whats called a Sellers Disclosure Statement. If the OP did not disclose this information upfront in the MLS listing, then that was the OP's fault, as well as the agents fault for not providing a Sellers Disclosure Statement. Then by all legal rights, the buyers have a right to a home inspection and ask for repairs to be done. IF the sellers dislosed the issues with the home upfront and disclosed this, the buyers KNEW this upfront going into looking at this property, knowing that the repair could be very costly, then negotions are now null and void. UNLESS, there were other repairs that came out of the home inspection not related to the discosure. Bottom line is this. When you sell a house "as is", the contract MUST state that it is "as is" with aboslutely NO SELLER CONCESSIONS/OBLIGATIONS to make ANY repairs to the home. And the ONLY way to walk away from the deal is that they are not able to obtain bank financing by said date on the contract. And if the Realtor is educated, she would know UPFRONT that the home would either qualify for a government loan (FHA, VA, FHL), or not. It is not an excuse. And this should also be stated UPFRONT in the MLS listing. RE can be tricky when it comes to contracts, because unless you have a RE agent who really knows what they are doing, you can really get screwed in the long run. When I practiced full time, I worked as a buyers agent only.Or a sellers agent only. NEVER as a dual agent. And I would always tell my buyers(or sellers) to have their attorney(outside the bank attorney who does the closing) to review the purchase and sales doc's prior to going forward. Remember. Closing attorneys work on the behalf of the BANK, not towards the interest of the seller(or buyer). It is going to cost a few hundred dollars more to do this. But totally worth it in the end because you could be out thousands of dollars if those contracts are not written properly. And it looks like, IMO that this is exactly what happened here. And yes, RE agents can OFFER legal advice, but you have to disclose to your seller(or buyer) you are not an attorney, and can offer legal advice, but always best to double check with a private lawyer. Again, one that does not represent the bank. This is a very sad case of gross negligence on the RE agents part. She broke so many RE laws it is pathetic. And now the OP is paying the price. THe way I see it, the seller is entitled to the buyers deposit/earnest money with interest, and any moneys incurred during this transaction. And make sure you have a different RE agent the next time around. Interview at least 6. And get references, including calling the Board of Realtors. :grouphug: Edited February 26, 2012 by dancer67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 dancer67;IF the sellers dislosed the issues with the home upfront and disclosed this, the buyers KNEW this upfront going into looking at this property, knowing that the repair could be very costly, then negotions are now null and void. UNLESS, there were other repairs that came out of the home inspection not related to the discosure. This is not accurate. Negotiations are not "null and void". There is simply no basis for negotiation on a previously disclosed defect. There is no basis for release on this issue. In practice, something can always be found, and generally it is more expensive to fight it legally than to just give in. When selling "as-is", no other defects coming from the Home Inspection are the basis to cancel the contract either, unless the defect was known and hidden. As-is means AS-IS. Again, in practice, it happens, both because of the expense in fighting it, and because Realtors are not attorneys so they don't know. Bottom line is this. When you sell a house "as is", the contract MUST state that it is "as is" with aboslutely NO SELLER CONCESSIONS/OBLIGATIONS to make ANY repairs to the home. Well, it need not say that, but it usually will. As-is is sufficient. And the ONLY way to walk away from the deal is that they are not able to obtain bank financing by said date on the contract. If the contract allows for that. Some as-is deals require cash. Also, anyone can actually create a situation where they "can't get financing". Happens all the time. And if the Realtor is educated, she would know UPFRONT that the home would either qualify for a government loan (FHA, VA, FHL), or not. It is not an excuse. And this should also be stated UPFRONT in the MLS listing. Absolutely. I've had more than one person attempt to go around this, mid-transaction. RE can be tricky when it comes to contracts, because unless you have a RE agent who really knows what they are doing, you can really get screwed in the long run. A Realtor is only permitted to fill out forms, legally. Often, they write out lengthy phrases which cause interpretation problems. I only do sales with attorney-vetted documents. It is going to cost a few hundred dollars more to do this. But totally worth it in the end because you could be out thousands of dollars if those contracts are not written properly. Exactly. And remember that if you find the house or the buyer yourself, or find a FSBO, you do not need a Realtor at all, unless you find it wise to do so with some particular emotionally-involved Seller, like I did. Your attorney can just do the documents at the cost of a few hundred, not tens of thousands that the Realtor will be paid. And yes, RE agents can OFFER legal advice, but you have to disclose to your seller(or buyer) you are not an attorney, and can offer legal advice, but always best to double check with a private lawyer. Again, one that does not represent the bank. I think you meant to say Reators CANNOT offer legal advice. They cannot. They can simply offer opinions, stating they are not attorneys, but it will be construed against them if anything goes wrong with the deal because of bad legal advice. THe way I see it, the seller is entitled to the buyers deposit/earnest money with interest, and any moneys incurred during this transaction. I agree with you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 ... THe way I see it, the seller is entitled to the buyers deposit/earnest money with interest, and any moneys incurred during this transaction. I thought the buyer canceled within the time frame allowed by the contract. I feel bad for the OP - it sounds like the buyer is a jerk, and the realtor is incompetent - but the contract says the buyer can back out. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineW Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I thought the buyer canceled within the time frame allowed by the contract. I feel bad for the OP - it sounds like the buyer is a jerk, and the realtor is incompetent - but the contract says the buyer can back out. What am I missing? You aren't missing anything. If the contract had a contingency clause (which are standard in many parts of the country) and the prospective buyers properly exercised the clause, then they are entitled to have the earnest money returned. AND If Op refuses to release the earnest money then she could be fined $1k in penalties. It all depends on the language of the contract. Are there buyer and seller contingencies. What are the terms? Buyer contingencies are not illegal. Stating that a house is sold as is does not void inspection contingency clauses. I totally feel for OP. We had sellers back out of a sale because my daughter got some marker on the table cloth during inspections. Contingencies hadn't been lifted and they were entitled to cancel the deal. The inspection reports were a disaster--we probably would not have been able to come to an agreement about repairs, the home failed the FHA inspection which was also written into the contract, but they canceled over a stupid table cloth. Still makes me mad 18 months later even though I am now in a better (and less expensive) home. Edited February 28, 2012 by ChristineW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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