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Who jumps ship after SM 5a and/or b?


Beth in SW WA
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I looked at the SM 6 TOC & samples....and I am convinced we won't be finishing the series. We'll continue with cwps only.

 

What does everyone do after SM5?

 

I plan to continue w/ TT -- doing TT Alg 1 next year as our official prealg program. We are using HoE and TT prealg now along w/ SM cwp 5 problems. I couldn't be happier.

 

OT....How can my dd, who still believes in Santa, be learning prealg? This is all new to me. :)

 

ETA: Please include the age of your dc? Thank you!

Edited by Beth in SW WA
typo
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What age/grade? Thanks!! I'm fascinated with the young ones who are using aops. :)

 

My dd isn't a young one. She's 10 and in fifth grade. We aren't accelerating math much. I tend to go broader rather than faster.

 

Although part of me thinks we should have started AoPS this year.....ACK! I better stop thinking about it or I might start in January---or Monday--or tomorrow. LOL

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I looked at the SM 6 TOC & samples....and I am convinced we won't be finishing the series. We'll continue with cwps only.

 

We did. I didn't like the way much of the material was presented in PM 6 (Standards Ed.).

 

Can you guys expand on why you aren't doing 6? What don't you like about it? :lurk5:

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Can you guys expand on why you aren't doing 6? What don't you like about it? :lurk5:

 

I'm not too impressed with these samples from 6A. And here.

 

We already have done content from lesson 13 of 6B in TT prealg. I don't need the geometry sections of 6B.

 

I'm also tired of flipping through (and paying for) multiple book$.

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Can you guys expand on why you aren't doing 6? What don't you like about it? :lurk5:

 

It's not so much that I don't like 6a/6b--it's more that I think AoPS pre-algebra is a better fit. Looking at the diagnostic test, I think DD will be ready for AoPS next year. She's probably ready now....hmmm.....

 

Has anyone done AoPS after SM 5A?

Edited by Hilltop Academy
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It's not so much that I don't like 6a/6b--it's more that I think AoPS pre-algebra is a better fit.

 

From looking at the diagnostic test, I think DD will be ready for AoPS next year. She's actually is probably ready now....hmmm.....

 

Has anyone done AoPS after SM 5A?

 

Dd passed the aops prealg placement test but is not ready for the wordiness and lack of visual presentation in aops. We watch the videos together -- but Abi says he's too dramatic. :tongue_smilie: Plus, he speaks fast so we pause often. She doesn't like the way he uses the term negation. She's too young to appreciate him obviously. I wish he was my neighbor. :)

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Dd passed the aops prealg placement test but is not ready for the wordiness and lack of visual presentation in aops.

 

 

Thanks! Hmm...We are having sort of the opposite problem. My DD no longer needs the visual presentation and enjoys "wordiness." I need to look at 5B more closely and see if there is much new info. Did your daughter learn many new concepts in 5B?

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My older ds did US Primary math 1a - 6b, and then moved into algebra. With younger ds, who is on a slower track, my plan is to go through 6b, then maybe switch to AOPS. He's only in 5a right now, so he's still got a ways to go.

 

From what I recall, 6a & 6b didn't have a whole lot of new material. My ds was pretty young though, and I figured extra practice was a good idea. I figure with younger ds, we might as well complete the series, since we already have the books.

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My 10yo ds went from SM 1 through 6 (standards edition), then through Thinkwell 6 last year, before starting AoPS pre-algebra this year. He's happily sailing through AoPS.

 

Looking through his SM books, we could have jumped ship after 5A. My only concern might have been the decimal and percentage portions of 5B, but even those probably wouldn't have been necessary. He's a very strong math student though.

 

However, my 13yo dd needed to go through the entire SM sequence in order to have the maturity to handle higher level math.

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Yes, she is working on rate currently. :)

 

....From what I recall, 6a & 6b didn't have a whole lot of new material. My ds was pretty young though, and I figured extra practice was a good idea......

 

.......Looking through his SM books, we could have jumped ship after 5A. My only concern might have been the decimal and percentage portions of 5B, but even those probably wouldn't have been necessary. .....

 

 

We did SM (US Edition) and CWP through 6b, but accelerated through 6A/B and didn't do all of the problems and reviews.

 

Thanks so much! I think we will go through SM 5B and LOF Decimals next semester. That will put us on track to start AoPS Pre-Algebra and LoF Pre-Algebra in the summer. We will also continue doing our other supplements.

 

Thanks again!

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I looked at the SM 6 TOC & samples....and I am convinced we won't be finishing the series. We'll continue with cwps only.

 

What does everyone do after SM5?

 

I plan to continue w/ TT -- doing TT Alg 1 next year as our official prealg program. We are using HoE and TT prealg now along w/ SM cwp 5 problems. I couldn't be happier.

 

OT....How can my dd, who still believes in Santa, be learning prealg? This is all new to me. :)

 

ETA: Please include the age of your dc? Thank you!

 

My 9 year old (will be 10 in December) is starting 5A next week. Our current plan (subject to revision) is to finish 5B by the end of the school year and then try AoPs prealgebra next fall. If it's too hard for him, we'll drop back and do SM 6A before trying again. He's really eager to accelerate and get to the interesting stuff, but I'm finding that when he races through, he understands the concepts quickly but then forgets how to do things a few months later. So I'm not hugely confident that he'll be ready for AoPs pre-algebra at 10 and a half.

 

 

The reason for skipping 6A and 6B was that I read on this board that a lot of people are doing that, simply because 6A/6B *are* pre-algebra, and AoPS is supposed to be an amazing program, so why do pre-algebra twice? That said, if it turns out he needs more time, we will do pre-algebra twice, once using SM and then again with AoPS.

 

I haven't actually looked at the AoPS book yet. I am dying to order it now but trying to restrain myself.

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My 9 year old (will be 10 in December) is starting 5A next week. Our current plan (subject to revision) is to finish 5B by the end of the school year and then try AoPs prealgebra next fall. If it's too hard for him, we'll drop back and do SM 6A before trying again. He's really eager to accelerate and get to the interesting stuff, but I'm finding that when he races through, he understands the concepts quickly but then forgets how to do things a few months later. So I'm not hugely confident that he'll be ready for AoPs pre-algebra at 10 and a half.

 

 

The reason for skipping 6A and 6B was that I read on this board that a lot of people are doing that, simply because 6A/6B *are* pre-algebra, and AoPS is supposed to be an amazing program, so why do pre-algebra twice? That said, if it turns out he needs more time, we will do pre-algebra twice, once using SM and then again with AoPS.

 

I haven't actually looked at the AoPS book yet. I am dying to order it now but trying to restrain myself.

 

We have the AoPS prealgebra book and I think it is much more advanced than SM6 US Edition.

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DS went from SM5b to AoPS Intro Algebra at age 9 1/2. There was no pre algebra then. We skipped SM6 because he was getting sick of the same old thing -- computation. Also, it seemed as if he already knew everything in the book, with the exception of only 1 chapter. He found the AoPS book on the shelf one day and started doing it by himself. He was "obsessive" about it (see other thread). 2 hours every day, tears while working, massive (and I mean massive) frustration. He would.not.let.me.help or teach or even be in the same room. This lasted for a month, and it was awful.

 

I tried to take the book away (I even hid it). And I tried to get him into a different book. He tolerated NEM for 1 week ,and Jacobs for 3 weeks, and then begged to go back to AoPS. But this time, I set some ground rules, including limited time, breaks when there were tears, etc. He had a love/hate relationship. In the end, he self taught the first 5 chapters (including challengers) at age 9 and it took him 6 months.

 

This is not a path I would suggest (obviously), but I thought you should get a feel for what gifted kids can be like in their area of passion. The following year, we laid out a path to get him through the book in 2 more years, and it has been a lovely, happy experience from age 10 to an almost 12.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

And yes at 9 he still believed in Santa.

Edited by lewelma
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The reason for skipping 6A and 6B was that I read on this board that a lot of people are doing that, simply because 6A/6B *are* pre-algebra, and AoPS is supposed to be an amazing program, so why do pre-algebra twice?

 

I'm thinking AoPS prealgebra goes deeper than Singapore 6, but I haven't looked at either in person.

 

My son will be young when it gets to prealgebra, so I'm planning to use the grade 6 book (whether Singapore or MM) before trying AoPS prealgebra. If he's had some "prealgebra" (and really, "prealgebra" IS review of math learned through grade 6 with some intro to algebra stuff added in, so I would expect grade 6 of anything to have prealgebra topics), he'll still learn from AoPS.

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We just finished 6A and gonna start 6B next week. I also bought AOPS-PreA but going through the book I feel other than few topic there will be no point to do Aops especially with IP and CWP.

I do think it will be easy to jump from 5B to ASOP-PreA. my only reason to go through 6A/6B is that DS is very young and I plan to do NEM later. So I think it is a better idea to go through 6B to have smooth transition.

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We just finished 6A and gonna start 6B next week. I also bought AOPS-PreA but going through the book I feel other than few topic there will be no point to do Aops especially with IP and CWP.

 

 

Interesting! Anyone else who has used both? Agree or disagree with this assessment? :lurk5:

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We plan to start AoPS next year after finishing 5A (and maybe 5B). Keep in mind we have also done a fair amount of work in Lial's BCM. My son will have just turned 10 (July bday)

 

Based on how things are going now, I anticipate being finished with 4 in March, and then we'll begin 5A. We school year-round, minus a 3 week break in August, so depending on how things go, we'll either do AoPS Pre A concurrently with 5B or after we're done. I have already purchased the AoPS Pre-A book, and my son and I have spent some time with it and enjoyed it. Yes, it's wordy, but I think it's great. I will go over any challenging topics with him (that should be interesting, seeing as he likes to self-teach) and see how it goes. We will continue with the CWP 6 and maybe even the IP, and I have no problem slowing down or backtracking if I decide we've moved too quickly.

 

Why? I think SM6 serves as Pre-A and I think AoPS is a better fit for my oldest. He too is getting a bit tired of "calculating" and is at the point where I think he needs more abstract problems. He will continue to review prior material, simply because he "gets" things quickly and sometimes needs to revisit things to cement the procedures. We like working in Lial's BCM as a supplement, so that may continue on an as-needed basis.

 

So basically, we're going to play it by ear LOL and try to find the "sweet spot" between being challenged and frustrated.

 

I am also tired of buying 8 books each year :tongue_smilie:.

Edited by Halcyon
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Hey Beth :) I'm curious why you don't think you'll finish them. I started with 4a I think... and Caley went most of the way through 6B. I wish that I had made her finish it and move on, rather than trying out Saxon. She didn't like it, but she doesn't like math. (or work at all, for that matter) I thought that it was good material, and looked at the Textbooks that came after that. Nathan started in 1a and is in 3a now... and I don't see "not finishing".... also seeing TT just seems so "unlike".... Singapore... So.... just really curious :) I know you do a really good job with your girls, so I like hearing your opinions.. (and I'm already planning on teaming him up with the tutors at the Shangri-la spot... that's what it's called, right? :))

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With my oldest, I jumped from SM 5B to AoPS Algebra. This wasn't plan... he found it on the shelf and insisted I teach him everything he didn't already know (radicals, exponents, negative numbers, etc.) in a day and he plunged into algebra. Like others, I wouldn't recommend this route, but he's a math-loving guy that has florished along this path.

 

I currently have my second son in SM5. I current plan is to finish out SM5 and pick and choose from SM6 to finish out the year. I plan on starting AoPS prealgebra next year. I think AoPS does a better job of TEACHING than SM.

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DD is almost finished with 5A and I'm planning to do the statistics & probability chapters in the 6B textbook (since she has to take the CA state STAR test) and then accelerate to a combo of DM1 and Horizons Pre-Algebra. I decided to do this based on the results of last year's EXPLORE and to stem the complaints of "too much review/too little new material". She will complete the 5B-6B IP's, the rest of CWP 5, and CWP 6 as the topics come up in Horizons.

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DD is almost finished with 5A and I'm planning to do the statistics & probability chapters in the 6B textbook (since she has to take the CA state STAR test) and then accelerate to a combo of DM1 and Horizons Pre-Algebra. I decided to do this based on the results of last year's EXPLORE and to stem the complaints of "too much review/too little new material". She will complete the 5B-6B IP's, the rest of CWP 5, and CWP 6 as the topics come up in Horizons.

 

 

A hijack: I've been trying to sign DS up for Duke TIP so he can take the Explore, but haven't seen where to do it. Any tips (no pun intended ;))

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From what I recall, 6a & 6b didn't have a whole lot of new material. My ds was pretty young though, and I figured extra practice was a good idea. I figure with younger ds, we might as well complete the series, since we already have the books.

 

:iagree: I did 6A and B with my oldest when he was a 3rd grader by age. Then we did a year of NEM (the pre-alg/algebra portions). Now we are into AoPS algebra, and that is going great for us. I loved singapore elementary, but NEM took some leaps I don't feel AoPS does. AoPS feels more logical to me.

 

AoPS pre-alg was not available for my oldest, but if my daughter follows a similar progression I think I will complete 6B to work on the "writing out" of math problems skills, and then go into AoPS pre-alg. I felt like 6A and 6B really forced my oldest to write out math problems and show a progression of solving problems. It was a nice progression for him at his age. It felt like early pre-algebra. I did compact in places. I'm personally in no hurry to get my kids through high school math. And although my kids have no problems with math concepts they aren't clamoring to advance or do more math. We do AoPS algebra 45-60 minutes a day (or less if the concept is easy) and we move on. If it takes us a couple years to get through this material, all the better.

 

My oldest never believed in Santa. :glare: My youngest is gung ho on Santa though! :D

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A hijack: I've been trying to sign DS up for Duke TIP so he can take the Explore, but haven't seen where to do it. Any tips (no pun intended ;))

 

Sorry, I'm not familiar with Duke TIP since we don't live within their geographic service area. It appears that there is enrollment information here but if you've got specific questions about TIP someone else will need to answer them.

 

My DD took the EXPLORE through Carnegie Mellon's C-MITES program. That has no geographical restrictions on its elementary talent search, though we did have to travel to take the EXPLORE since there weren't any local test sites. I have heard that some people are able to arrange individual testing through the Belin-Blank Center in Iowa but again I don't know any specifics about that.

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I e-mailed AoPS to ask about Singapore PM 6 vs. AoPS Prealgebra. R.R. replied back that there wasn't enough data to know for sure whether you can skip PM 6, but that many students go straight from PM 6 to AoPS Intro to Algebra, and he thinks you could likely go from PM 5 to AoPS Prealgebra. For the younger student (8-9 year olds), he suggested going ahead and trying the AoPS, and if they aren't quite ready, switch back to PM 6.

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I e-mailed AoPS to ask about Singapore PM 6 vs. AoPS Prealgebra. R.R. replied back that there wasn't enough data to know for sure whether you can skip PM 6, but that many students go straight from PM 6 to AoPS Intro to Algebra, and he thinks you could likely go from PM 5 to AoPS Prealgebra. For the younger student (8-9 year olds), he suggested going ahead and trying the AoPS, and if they aren't quite ready, switch back to PM 6.

 

Great info. Thanks!

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I e-mailed AoPS to ask about Singapore PM 6 vs. AoPS Prealgebra. R.R. replied back that there wasn't enough data to know for sure whether you can skip PM 6, but that many students go straight from PM 6 to AoPS Intro to Algebra, and he thinks you could likely go from PM 5 to AoPS Prealgebra. For the younger student (8-9 year olds), he suggested going ahead and trying the AoPS, and if they aren't quite ready, switch back to PM 6.

 

Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I've been planning to do with my DS so it's reassuring that they had the same thought (though he'll 10 and a half at that point, so I hope AoPS will work the first time).

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If you are planning to use AoPS for high school level maths, my vote is that it is completely fine to do the Pre-Algebra after SM 5B.

 

Our story...

 

My oldest did SM from Earlybird to 6A (BTW, 6A is VERY short, it only takes a month at the most) and LoF F & DP by 8 years old. When he got to the crazy hard word problems in 6B though, he did NOT have the maturity to manipulate the information. I did not want him moving into algebra yet, so I ordered SEVERAL different pre-algebra books to look through. It was like the Three Bears story -- everything was either too easy or too hard. Side note: LoF Pre-Algebra and AoPS Pre-Algebra weren't out yet, these may have worked if they had been available.

 

So he took a year off from math (GASP! WHAT?!?! :lol: ). It wasn't ideal, but that is how it worked out due to life circumstances. When we started math back up he had forgotten everything. Ok... maybe not EVERYTHING... but pretty much everything to do with fractions, decimals, measurement, geometry (you know... all those things that people criticize SM for not covering in enough depth LOL). So he has spent the last few months going through Saxon (GASP! WHAT?!?! SAXON with a kid who is GIFTED in math?!?!? :lol: ) and this has done wonders for him! He is now answering problems confidently, getting 100% on the tests, and finishing all 30 problems in about 20-30 minutes (at first it took him nearly 2 hours). As much as certain people like to bash Saxon, it was EXACTLY what this child needed this year.

 

I have the AoPS Pre-Algebra book, and DS has already looked through it. He very much wants to do that book next, and in fact I gave him the option to quit Saxon and jump to it now, but he chose to finish the Saxon book first. This shocked me -- but he really "gets it" that it is helping him prepare for higher level math.

 

I do not regret the 2 years he spent in between SM6A and AoPS Pre-Algebra, DS had greatly matured in his mathematical thought and in his sticktoitiveness. Recently he solved a problem but the answer didn't seem right, so ON HIS OWN he went back through the problem, tried solving it another way, and realized what he had tripped up on the first time. He *NEVER* would have done something like this at 8 years old.

 

My 2nd DS is a completely different math animal. I am toying with the idea of letting him start AoPS this spring with my oldest, even though he hasn't finished SM yet. When this kid was 5 years old (before he had a single page of math lessons), we had him professionally tested because we were seeing signs of dyslexia and they informed me he was performing at the 4th grade level of math. This is a kid who just *KNOWS* math, who asked questions about negative numbers as a toddler, who learned his times tables through 12 in 2 weeks playing a computer game as a preschooler (you get the idea). He does not have the writing stamina needed to keep up, but... well... I'm not really sure what else to do with him. No judgement on this fact please! :)

 

I'm not suggesting that others follow in our footsteps, I'm just sharing what our experience has been with SM & LoF & AoPS, since I know there are many who are planning a similar combination. I think there can be many different "right" ways of doing it! The beauty of having kids who are advanced in math is that if you try something and they aren't ready for it, you can put it back on the shelf for a few months and not be stressed out about it. :)

Edited by Colleen in SEVA
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I looked at the SM 6 TOC & samples....and I am convinced we won't be finishing the series. We'll continue with cwps only....How can my dd, who still believes in Santa, be learning prealg? This is all new to me. :)

 

ETA: Please include the age of your dc? Thank you!

 

What an interesting thread! I have another one of those "may not be for you but gonna say it nevertheless" stories because I know it would have helped me to be able to hear this from someone 2-3 years ago.

 

Our DS, currently 9, could not stick to any math curriculum for long from the time we started homeschooling at age 4. Same Goldilocks tale...everything was either too easy or too hard, and when we did find the just-right, it wasn't just-right for long. For example, we started MEP 1A, skipped after 2-3 weeks to MEP 1B, still too easy, tried SM 2, skipped to SM 3 within 2-3 months, skipped to SM 4 and 5, sometimes working on both at the same time and throwing in CWPs now and then but soon gave up on CWPs because they became too frustrating and stopped SM too. He was conceptually ready to skip around SM but still too immature to tackle word problems.

 

To encourage the conceptual understanding, we moved to LOF Fractions and DP while also working on Key To Algebra. Finished Key to Algebra at 7. Finished Dolciani's Algebra I and AoPS Intro to C+P just before 9th birthday. Would throw some word problems at him from time to time and just recently noticed that maturity to solve them has improved tremendously.

 

This fall, he started AoPS Number Theory and Intro to Geometry (books only as per Richard's advice -- Richard suggested he move on to the class "after" some exposure to the book due to his younger age). He still had many gaps. We hadn't done many ratio or percent problems for example but he seems to have somehow understood these concepts despite that.

 

Intro to Geometry is becoming hard now so we are considering Jurgensen Geometry (similar in format to Dolciani Algebra and I thought I'd try it since he likes that format) or winging it with Khan Academy or going the Derek Owens/ Jacobs Geometry path or just taking a break and doing logic problems for a while.

 

The flexibility of homeschooling is both a joy and a pain to me. We completely bypassed formal pre-algebra, he doesn't seem to have needed it. I don't even remember how he got to this point, it all seems like a blur but we know that we had to do what we did to keep his joy for and love of math alive or he would have become bored out of his wits. I sure do worry about all this skipping though. I worry that it'll come back and bite me when he's older. But so far, he's doing fine, so maybe I'm just being paranoid.

 

FWIW, he stopped believing in Santa and the Tooth Fairy at 4.

Edited by quark
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I have heard that some people are able to arrange individual testing through the Belin-Blank Center in Iowa but again I don't know any specifics about that.

 

Regarding Belin-Blank Center and EXPLORE, you can write to them at the email contact provided here and have them send the test packet to a test proctor you've chosen (I think it needs to be a credentialed teacher and non-family member). I am not completely certain but I believe they'll send the packet to you regardless of where in the US you live.

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We did SM (US Edition) and CWP through 6b, but accelerated through 6A/B and didn't do all of the problems and reviews.

 

This is what we are doing. I might manage to stretch 6B until Christmas if we do more of the reviews than I had planned, but I have my doubts. We were planning on starting DM after 6B, but now I am thinking of just playing with some topics that could use some extra practice using either Khan Academy or Derek Owens' videos, then moving on to DM in February or March. Honestly, I didn't plan on DD getting so far so fast, and I need some time to think through everything.

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I thought SM 6a and 6b were just as good as the earlier books and went all the way through with my two older girls.

 

My youngest is a different matter. I've never found a math program that worked for her long-term. She used SM for 1A-3A and 4A-5B and tried a bunch of other programs in between and afterward. She's using MUS now. It isn't a perfect fit, but it seems to be working for now.

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also seeing TT just seems so "unlike".... Singapore... So.... just really curious :) I know you do a really good job with your girls, so I like hearing your opinions.. (and I'm already planning on teaming him up with the tutors at the Shangri-la spot... that's what it's called, right? :))

 

Hi Carrie,

 

Yes, TT is 'unlike' SM which is why I love it. It has been hugely successful for dd8 to work through TT over the last year -- along w/ a boatload of cwps/ips. Totally different animal.

 

As for Abi's online tutor via Cybershala.com --- we will continue. She is finishing up sections of 5b and will do a few more topics from level 6 and start w/ sections from NEM. I won't need to buy the books since Rachna emails me the workbook pages each week. I won't have the answer key so that will make it more interesting. :tongue_smilie: I consider our experience with Rachna as a wonderful supplement. I will use TT Alg 1 as our official prealg. I'm confident this experiment will work.

 

I have no need to purchase SM 6 because we are using HoE which has 200 verbal problems which will more than prepare Abi for algebra.

 

HTH! :)

 

ETA: Thank you to everyone who chimed in on this thread.

Edited by Beth in SW WA
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