How would you feel if someone took your kids out to dinner...

[Haiku]

I also have a pet theory about seasickness and booze. People who get seasick very easily don't "hold" their liquor as well.

 

I get motion sick very easily but small amounts of alcohol don't make me excessively inebriated.

 

Tara

[mrs.m]

It depends on the person. My hubby could have one drink and no one would know it. His driving record is clean.

 

I get flushed, rubbery, and then sleepy from more than a tablespoon of wine. A "lazy" liver with very poor first pass clearance of chemicals let everything I take go, literally, straight to my head.

 

I also have a pet theory about seasickness and booze. People who get seasick very easily don't "hold" their liquor as well. I can get nauseous on a dock smelling tar and salt air, because I've vomited on nearly every ship I've ever been on. One big swig of ETOH and my head spins. And aren't sailors infamous about drinking prodigious amounts?

 

 

But you don't usually plan on driving if you have your teaspoon of wine, correct? I find this arguement to not have anything to do with an adult drinking responsibly. Part of that is understanding your limits. Sure there will always be a few that will make bad choices but my children probably wouldn't be out to dinner with those people.

 

I believe that most people that are overly sensitive to the effects from alcohol also usually don't drink. They don't enjoy it and don't see the point because of the side effects.

[regentrude]

Last year, dd-then-16 and her friend came home while dh and I were in the middle of dinner. Dd asked whether her friend could eat. I said sure. Dd later told me that her friend's parents were upset that we were drinking in their dd's presence.

 

I had a soda with some vodka in it. Dh had a beer. In our own house. When we hadn't invited their child over; their child just showed up. Honestly, I told dd that her friend's parents needed to chill out big time.

 

:iagree:

 

Also: not drinking when minors are present does nothing to prevent them from drinking. A friend of ours makes a big point out of never touching a drink in front of the kids. Guess what? His 16 year old son was caught with a big stash of liquor he was hiding in the parent's garage; the older brother was caught for underage drinking, drugs, and doing stupid stuff under the influence.

I see much fewer problems in our European friends where kids grow into the tradition of drinking wine from an early age - it demystifies alcohol and makes it not a forbidden fruit, but something completely normal. They don't have to hide booze in their parents garage because they are allowed a legal beer at the table.

[Sputterduck]

I also have a pet theory about seasickness and booze. People who get seasick very easily don't "hold" their liquor as well. I can get nauseous on a dock smelling tar and salt air, because I've vomited on nearly every ship I've ever been on. One big swig of ETOH and my head spins. And aren't sailors infamous about drinking prodigious amounts?

 

Huh. That describes me. I went on a month long cruise/car/train trip with my parents earlier this year and was sea/car/train sick the whole time. After a month of that, I just wanted to world to STOP MOVING. Ugh. Bad memories. 1/2 a beer makes my face go numb and my eyes go fuzzy and me unsure of where my feet are. I make the worst Irish person ever. I can't stand the sea and I can't hold my drink. *sigh*

[Jenny in Florida]

But you don't usually plan on driving if you have your teaspoon of wine, correct? I find this arguement to not have anything to do with an adult drinking responsibly. Part of that is understanding your limits. Sure there will always be a few that will make bad choices but my children probably wouldn't be out to dinner with those people.

 

I believe that most people that are overly sensitive to the effects from alcohol also usually don't drink. They don't enjoy it and don't see the point because of the side effects.

 

Here's the thing: I believe that many good people simply don't think carefully enough about how drinking might affect them, especially after they've had the first drink. The idea that everyone who drinks somehow can be trusted to know when they've had enough doesn't hold up as far as I can see. After all, if that were true, we'd have many fewer alcohol-related traffic accidents.

 

And I don't think your second statement is necessarily true, either. I don't drink in part because I'm honest enough to admit that I might like the effects too much. And I've seen far too many people I like and love struggle with it to take drinking lightly. It's not that I "don't see the point." It's that, for me, it's not worth the risk. I do not have a problem with other people drinking, as long as they do so responsibly. As I've said a couple of times, my husband drinks. But I am disturbed by the number of people who want to make drinking and driving "no big thing."

[Jenny in Florida]

But, it is about judgment. Do your trust the adults involved or not?

 

When it comes to alcohol and my child's safety? Often, not. Especially since one of the big features of alcohol is that it tends to affect one's judgement. And since, for my money, someone who drinks before driving around with someone else's child in the car is demonstrating poor judgement right there.

 

You would have no concern that there might be some other way in which your values conflict in the future that might result in another incident?

 

Like what? I honestly can't imagine.

 

In your scenario, there was a simple misunderstanding. There was no conflict in values. I've done nothing wrong, nothing about which there is the most remote need to be defensive. I've respected the child's concerns and treated the child and the parents politely. We've all explained ourselves.

 

I suspect we can all laugh about it.

 

Life goes on.

[Impish]

But I am disturbed by the number of people who want to make drinking and driving "no big thing."

That statement is simply inflammatory.

 

Drinking and driving IS a big deal, and I don't know a single person that would say otherwise.

 

However, to many, one glass of wine with a meal is NOT drinking and driving. As has been pointed out ad nauseum, a glass of wine does not impair the average individual.

 

To attempt to say that ppl are being dismissive of drinking and driving is incredibly insulting to those who have lost ppl to it.

 

Just b/c someone doesn't agree (indeed, the law itself doesn't, last I checked) with your personal view doesn't make them dismissive of the very real, very serious, very tragic issues of drinking and driving.

[Jean in Newcastle]

When it comes to alcohol and my child's safety? Often, not. Especially since one of the big features of alcohol is that it tends to affect one's judgement. And since, for my money, someone who drinks before driving around with someone else's child in the car is demonstrating poor judgement right there.

 

 

 

Like what? I honestly can't imagine.

 

In your scenario, there was a simple misunderstanding. There was no conflict in values. I've done nothing wrong, nothing about which there is the most remote need to be defensive. I've respected the child's concerns and treated the child and the parents politely. We've all explained ourselves.

 

I suspect we can all laugh about it.

 

Life goes on.

 

Using your posts as something to jump off of. . . Anyone who feels this strongly about this issue needs to address this with those who are going to drive your kids prior to any outings. Because if you don't, it may come up like it did for the OP. It isn't realistic to just expect that others will have the same opinion or conclusion on the matter.

 

Gentle is good as a way to handle it, though sometimes gentle doesn't get the message across. But even gentle after the fact is going to produce some consternation because unless you (or your child) says something when the person is actually ordering the drink, the alcohol has been consumed and can't be un-consumed. And some scenarios are easier than others when it comes to finding alternative transportation.

 

It seems to me, that if you're going to require certain standards, you need to require certain prior communication and you'll have to hold yourself or your children to that.

[Mrs Mungo]

When it comes to alcohol and my child's safety? Often, not. Especially since one of the big features of alcohol is that it tends to affect one's judgement. And since, for my money, someone who drinks before driving around with someone else's child in the car is demonstrating poor judgement right there.

 

Then, we are in agreement. If I had your teen friend of dd's along at a restaurant and I had a glass of wine with my meal, we had dessert, we talked, etc, and knew it had plenty of time to leave my system, then that is *not* driving under the influence. Your child refuses to drive with me or you bring it up later, fine. But, neither of us would probably be comfortable with me being in charge of your child again *because* you believe that I have poor judgment. That isn't me choosing alcohol over a child as was presented by the OP. That is someone who isn't comfortable being in charge of children when the parents do not trust the judgment of that individual.

[Jenny in Florida]

However, to many, one glass of wine with a meal is NOT drinking and driving.

 

And that is the core of the issue, right there.

 

I found a couple of sites with blood alcohol content calculators. The only scenario that I found that kept an average-sized woman in the "safe" category was if she had a single glass of wine (or the equivalent) over a meal that lasted at least two hours.

 

In the situation posted here, we have no idea what the drink was, when during the meal it was taken or how long the meal lasted before the parent began driving home.

 

This person had a drink. Then he or she drove home.

 

I find it interesting that those of us who say we would not be comfortable with the situation as described have been accused of all kinds of things, but my statement was considered "inflammatory."

[Mrs Mungo]

Using your posts as something to jump off of. . . Anyone who feels this strongly about this issue needs to address this with those who are going to drive your kids prior to any outings. Because if you don't, it may come up like it did for the OP. It isn't realistic to just expect that others will have the same opinion or conclusion on the matter.

 

Gentle is good as a way to handle it, though sometimes gentle doesn't get the message across. But even gentle after the fact is going to produce some consternation because unless you (or your child) says something when the person is actually ordering the drink, the alcohol has been consumed and can't be un-consumed. And some scenarios are easier than others when it comes to finding alternative transportation.

 

It seems to me, that if you're going to require certain standards, you need to require certain prior communication and you'll have to hold yourself or your children to that.

 

Right. Several people have now stated that they would be fine with a parent bringing it up before-hand. But, creating rules with your children like, "never drive with someone who has been drinking," not letting the adults involved know about it and putting that child's judgment over an adult's is going to cause problems.

 

I find it interesting that those of us who say we would not be comfortable with the situation as described have been accused of all kinds of things, but my statement was considered "inflammatory."

 

What have you been accused of, other than what you openly admit to?

[Impish]

And that is the core of the issue, right there.

 

I found a couple of sites with blood alcohol content calculators. The only scenario that I found that kept an average-sized woman in the "safe" category was if she had a single glass of wine (or the equivalent) over a meal that lasted at least two hours.

 

In the situation posted here, we have no idea what the drink was, when during the meal it was taken or how long the meal lasted before the parent began driving home.

 

This person had a drink. Then he or she drove home.

 

I find it interesting that those of us who say we would not be comfortable with the situation as described have been accused of all kinds of things, but my statement was considered "inflammatory."

To me, it was. To state that those who disagreed about a glass of wine were 'wanting to make drinking and driving no big thing' is, imo, an inflammatory statement.

 

And it was stated earlier in the thread that it was wine that was had.

[Mrs Mungo]

To me, it was. To state that those who disagreed about a glass of wine were 'wanting to make drinking and driving no big thing' is, imo, an inflammatory statement.

 

And it was stated earlier in the thread that it was wine that was had.

 

The original question was, "how would you feel if someone took your kids out to dinner, had a drink with dinner and drove home?" that is the question that people were answering. You will notice that the first several posts include things like: "one drink, with a meal?"

[Jenny in Florida]

Gentle is good as a way to handle it, though sometimes gentle doesn't get the message across. But even gentle after the fact is going to produce some consternation because unless you (or your child) says something when the person is actually ordering the drink, the alcohol has been consumed and can't be un-consumed. And some scenarios are easier than others when it comes to finding alternative transportation.

 

Please keep in mind that I was responding to a hypothetical scenario proposed by Mrs. Mungo in which we (the parents who would be driving) had NOT been drinking. We had ordered bottles of mineral water with our meal. The child who accompanied us confuses the bottles with alcoholic beverages and insists on calling her parent to pick her up from the restaurant.

 

Mrs. Mungo wanted to know whether I would be offended and/or worried about future potential "conflicts in values" if we wanted to bring along the same child again in the future.

 

However, I guess I don't understand why this has to be a big thing? No, I would not want my child riding in a car with someone who had a drink with dinner. My kids know that and would know to call for a ride. This does not have to involve either conflict or consternation. And I'm not out to change anyone else's habits or values. I don't need to person to "un-consume" the drink. I don't need to have an argument. I'm not interested in sending "a message." I just want to calmly and politely (and, possibly, apologetically) take my kid home.

[Impish]

The original question was, "how would you feel if someone took your kids out to dinner, had a drink with dinner and drove home?" that is the question that people were answering. You will notice that the first several posts include things like: "one drink, with a meal?"

Yup.

 

And mention was made about 'sharing a bottle of wine' later in the thread, which is where I got the wine info from.

[Jenny in Florida]

To me, it was.

 

Well, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I apologize that you were bothered by my wording.

[Jenny in Florida]

What have you been accused of, other than what you openly admit to?

 

Words and phrases like "over-sensitive," "freak out," "causing a scene," etc.

 

The implication is that, because we have different standards for what is acceptable behavior when in charge of someone else's child, we are all rude and paranoid.

[LibraryLover]

If it helps Jenny or Helena at all, I would never, ever drive myself, and certainly not a child, if I thought a glass of wine with dinner would impair my thinking or reflexes.

 

For those of us who do have wine with dinner, or a beer with pizza at a game, we know we are not impaired, but I wouldn't argue with you about that. I would think it overkill, yes, and now I know nothing I say could change your mind. It's not a discussion I would have with you. I wouldn't stop thinking you're a good person or anything. :) I might start worrying about havng your child over, just in general, because safety cannot be guaranteed. Is making a firepit in the yard and toasting smores safe? What about Man Hunt? (One of my kids twisted his ankle badly doing that.) Where is the line drawn when it comes to other peoples kids and safetly issues?

Edited October 24, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Mrs Mungo]

Words and phrases like "over-sensitive," "freak out," "causing a scene," etc.

 

The implication is that, because we have different standards for what is acceptable behavior when in charge of someone else's child, we are all rude and paranoid.

 

The only time I used the phrase freak out did not involve drinking or any kind of "lower standard" of behavior. It involved something I witnessed and that is how I would characterize it.

 

If it helps Jenny or Helena at all, I would never, ever drive myself, and certainly not a child, if I thought a glass of wine with dinner would impair my thinking or reflexes.

 

For those of us who do have wine with dinner, or a beer with pizza at a game, we know we are not impaired, but I wouldn't argue with you about that. I would think it overkill, and I know nothing I say could change your mind. It's not a discussion I would have with you. I might start worrying about havng him over, just in general, because safety cannot be guaranteed. Is making a firepit in the yard and toasting smores safe? What about Man Hunt in the dark? (One of my kids twisted his ankle badly doing that.) Where is the line drawn when it comes to other peoples kids and safetly issues?

 

 

And that is all I am saying. It seemed to be the fall-out of the OP's situation, which she felt was the result of choosing alcohol over her children. Not putting any of us in that situation ever again seems like a pretty normal response to me.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[Jenny in Florida]

If it helps Jenny or Helena at all, I would never, ever drive myself, and certainly not a child, if I thought a glass of wine with dinner would impair my thinking or reflexes.

 

For those of us who do have wine with dinner, or a beer with pizza at a game, we know we are not impaired, but I wouldn't argue with you about that. I would think it overkill, and I know nothing I say could change your mind. It's not a discussion I would have with you. The kids could find other ways to hang out, and I wouldn't go out to dinner with him again.

 

You might know it, but I would not. And, as I said, since one of the things drinking alcohol does is impair one's judgement, I'm not sure I think the assurance that one doesn't "think" one is impaired is much comfort.

 

However, as I've also said, I'm not out to change your mind or your behaviour. You're an adult, and you are free to do what you believe is best. You don't need to change my mind. I don't need to change yours.

 

I promise I'll treat your opinion with respect, if you'll return the favor.

[Jenny in Florida]

The only time I used the phrase freak out did not involve drinking or any kind of "lower standard" of behavior. It involved something I witnessed and that is how I would characterize it.

 

It wasn't just your posts to which I was responding.

 

And please note I said "different," not "lower."

 

And that is all I am saying. It seemed to be the fall-out of the OP's situation, which she felt was the result of choosing alcohol over her children. Not putting any of us in that situation ever again seems like a pretty normal response to me.

 

I think saying, "If I can't have a drink and take the kid out to dinner, I'll choose the drink" is odd. However, when there is a clash of values like this, then, certainly, the kindest thing is to avoid creating the same situation again.

[mrs.m]

Here's the thing: I believe that many good people simply don't think carefully enough about how drinking might affect them, especially after they've had the first drink. The idea that everyone who drinks somehow can be trusted to know when they've had enough doesn't hold up as far as I can see. After all, if that were true, we'd have many fewer alcohol-related traffic accidents.

 

And I don't think your second statement is necessarily true, either. I don't drink in part because I'm honest enough to admit that I might like the effects too much. And I've seen far too many people I like and love struggle with it to take drinking lightly. It's not that I "don't see the point." It's that, for me, it's not worth the risk. I do not have a problem with other people drinking, as long as they do so responsibly. As I've said a couple of times, my husband drinks. But I am disturbed by the number of people who want to make drinking and driving "no big thing."

 

again, you are proving my point that most reasonable and functioning adults are able to control themselves and understand their limitations. You admit that you might like alcohol too much so you avoid it. I understand that not everyone is this self-controlled. But someone that I would trust my children with? Most likely!

[Mrs Mungo]

I think saying, "If I can't have a drink and take the kid out to dinner, I'll choose the drink" is odd. However, when there is a clash of values like this, then, certainly, the kindest thing is to avoid creating the same situation again.

 

Except, that isn't what the other person said, that is how the OP Interpreted the response. I would interpret the response she received as: if you don't trust my judgment, then I cannot be responsible for your kids.

 

I tried to point it out with the pool issue, LL has brought up other potential issues. I don't want to put myself in the situation of being responsible for the children of someone who does not trust my judgment. That is a reasonable response.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[LibraryLover]

It wasn't just your posts to which I was responding.

 

And please note I said "different," not "lower."

 

 

 

I think saying, "If I can't have a drink and take the kid out to dinner, I'll choose the drink" is odd. However, when there is a clash of values like this, then, certainly, the kindest thing is to avoid creating the same situation again.

 

 

I wouldn't make a choice to create a 'clash of values' , except that I would not take your child to a resturant or an outing. We eat out so rarely, and it's a simple pleasure to pair wine with a nice meal, or a good Mexican brew with a great plate of Mexican food. Or a bowling alley draught with pizza. :)

 

Your kid could come over to play and then you could pick him up. :) Problem solved. :) I would respect that particular choice of yours.

Edited October 24, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Jenny in Florida]

again, you are proving my point that most reasonable and functioning adults are able to control themselves and understand their limitations. You admit that you might like alcohol too much so you avoid it. I understand that not everyone is this self-controlled. But someone that I would trust my children with? Most likely!

 

I wonder how you would know?

 

As I understand it, the original question sprung from an incident in which the adult was not a close friend. The child went to dinner with a friend and his/her parents. In that situation, how on earth would you know whether the parent driving your child was trustworthy about alcohol?

 

I think it's a huge leap to say that, because I abstain in part based on self-knowledge, "most" people do so. Do you not know any alcoholics? I do. I've known lots of them. And I've known even more folks who might not qualify as "alcoholics" but definitely have a problem controlling themselves around alcohol. In fact, I'd say I know more of those people than I do those who are like me.

 

My daughter is doing a show. Thus far, during the course of rehearsals and two weeks of performances, two out of about 20 members of the cast have been hospitalized with alcohol poisoning. I'd venture a guess that they didn't mean to make themselves sick enough to require hospitalization and missing shows. But they certainly showed poor judgement.

 

I quit going to holidays with my extended family because two or three of my family members would have two drinks and start going at each other. It didn't take much to set it off, but they would ruin the holiday for any of us sober enough to remember what happened. (They were lucky and didn't remember -- or at least so they claimed.)

 

Of my group of close friends in high school, more than half of them found their lives de-railed by substance abuse problems.

 

I was married briefly to an alcoholic.

 

Sure, maybe I've just had rotten luck. But I've had enough of it to make me feel a little skeptical about trusting other people when it comes to booze.

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't want to put myself in the situation of being responsible for the children of someone who does not trust my judgment. That is a reasonable response.

 

Of course.

[Mrs Mungo]

I wonder how you would know?

 

As I understand it, the original question sprung from an incident in which the adult was not a close friend. The child went to dinner with a friend and his/her parents. In that situation, how on earth would you know whether the parent driving your child was trustworthy about alcohol?

 

No, actually, the OP seemed to involve a close family member. That is why she was upset at the response she received when she confronted them. I know, the posts are gone, but there are pieces still there quoted by other people. She said it was "much sadder" than me "not wanting to be her friend," which (to me, at least) implies that it involved a family member.

[Mrs Mungo]

Of course.

 

Then we agree, but *that* is why the OPer was upset.

[Jenny in Florida]

No, actually, the OP seemed to involve a close family member. That is why she was upset at the response she received when she confronted them. I know, the posts are gone, but there are pieces still there quoted by other people. She said it was "much sadder" than me "not wanting to be her friend," which (to me, at least) implies that it involved a family member.

 

I apologize. That was not my impression. I remembered the "not a friend" comment but not the "much sadder" part.

 

If it were one of my relatives, though, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them when it comes to judgement about alcohol, for the reasons mentioned in my previous post.

[LibraryLover]

[quote name=Mrs Mungo;3264018

 

I tried to point it out with the pool issue' date=' LL has brought up other potential issues. I don't want to put myself in the situation of being responsible for the children of someone who does not trust my judgment. That is a reasonable response.

 

 

As I've said, I would be very leery, yes, of my child spending time with yours. Not because of the alcohol, but because I realize you wouldn't trust me. I don't let my kids go off with people I don't trust. (Of course, 3/4 of my kids are older, and one is an adult by any standard. At 22, 19, and almost 18, it's not a simple equation to track their every movement, although my teens are pretty dull and I am thankful for that!)

 

But why would you even let your kid play with mine, even at my home, if you think I would put my own child in danger?

Edited October 24, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Laurie4b]

 

I think it's a huge leap to say that, because I abstain in part based on self-knowledge, "most" people do so. Do you not know any alcoholics? I do. I've known lots of them. And I've known even more folks who might not qualify as "alcoholics" but definitely have a problem controlling themselves around alcohol. In fact, I'd say I know more of those people than I do those who are like me.

 

My daughter is doing a show. Thus far, during the course of rehearsals and two weeks of performances, two out of about 20 members of the cast have been hospitalized with alcohol poisoning. I'd venture a guess that they didn't mean to make themselves sick enough to require hospitalization and missing shows. But they certainly showed poor judgement.

 

I quit going to holidays with my extended family because two or three of my family members would have two drinks and start going at each other. It didn't take much to set it off, but they would ruin the holiday for any of us sober enough to remember what happened. (They were lucky and didn't remember -- or at least so they claimed.)

 

Of my group of close friends in high school, more than half of them found their lives de-railed by substance abuse problems.

 

I was married briefly to an alcoholic.

 

Sure, maybe I've just had rotten luck. But I've had enough of it to make me feel a little skeptical about trusting other people when it comes to booze.

 

Do you know any alcoholics who have one drink with dinner? I don't. That's the difference between what you are saying and the rest of us who think a drink with dinner is fine are saying. We're not talking about alcholics. That wasn't part of the original post. The original post was not ambiguous. It did not ask if we'd be upset if someone had been drinking at dinner. It said had ONE drink. Then some people mentioned exceptions that sometimes one drink could affect some (very small percentage) of people and people responded that in that case, they would likely know their limitations.

 

You're actually setting up a straw man by talking about alcoholics, alcohol poisoning, etc. Knock it down all you want. Everyone here agrees with you: we would be furious if our kid went out to dinner with someone who drank multiple drinks at dinner. But again, that's not what the OP said.

 

I am sorry for the alcoholism in you and understand how that makes you feel, but it does not apply to everyone who has a drink at dinner. In fact, those who have one (or two for men) a day live longer than tee-totalers or those who drink more heavily. It is a healthy practice.

[kalanamak]

I get motion sick very easily but small amounts of alcohol don't make me excessively inebriated.

 

Tara

 

Actually, I mean the opposite. That people who have iron stomachs on the ocean tend to be able to hold their liquor better. I think it might have something to do with our sense of balance. But, it is a pet theory.

[Impish]

Well, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I apologize that you were bothered by my wording.

Appreciated. :001_smile:

Words and phrases like "over-sensitive," "freak out," "causing a scene," etc.

 

The implication is that, because we have different standards for what is acceptable behavior when in charge of someone else's child, we are all rude and paranoid.

Ftr, I don't believe I used any of those terms. I agree that we all have our own personal pov that is directly impacted by our life experiences...what could cause me to take flight wouldn't even be an eyebrow raise for you, and vice versa.

As I understand it, the original question sprung from an incident in which the adult was not a close friend.

It came out in a later post that it was a family member, not just a friend.

[SailorMom]

Two alcoholic paretns here. One drink with dinner??? More like one bottle.

 

A glass of wine or a beer with dinner, is - imho - absolutely fine. Over the course of an hour, it would be COMPLETELY out of the persons blood.

[mrs.m]

I think it's a huge leap to say that, because I abstain in part based on self-knowledge, "most" people do so. Do you not know any alcoholics? I do. I've known lots of them. And I've known even more folks who might not qualify as "alcoholics" but definitely have a problem controlling themselves around alcohol. In fact, I'd say I know more of those people than I do those who are like me.

...

 

I was married briefly to an alcoholic.

 

Sure, maybe I've just had rotten luck. But I've had enough of it to make me feel a little skeptical about trusting other people when it comes to booze.

 

I do know alcoholics and my chilren would not be allowed to be alone with them. But people that I would go out to dinner with, that are family friends (and not crazy or alcoholics, generally responsible parents, etc.)? Sure. And if they felt like they could control themselves with one glass of wine over dinner? I just don't have a problem with that.

 

If you are uncomfortable with it, then that's not a problem. I honestly respect that and I'm not trying to change your mind about your feelings toward alcohol. But you will need to communicate with the people in your circles that may at times have your children.

[Wheres Toto]

My daughter is doing a show. Thus far, during the course of rehearsals and two weeks of performances, two out of about 20 members of the cast have been hospitalized with alcohol poisoning. I'd venture a guess that they didn't mean to make themselves sick enough to require hospitalization and missing shows. But they certainly showed poor judgement.

 

 

 

I would worry about my child being a part of this group. Two people in two weeks being hospitalized with alcohol poisoning is a lot. Is this a group of particularly heavy drinkers? College kids who like to party? I've been around a lot of drinkers in my life - alcoholics, kids who like to party, etc. and in over 20 years I've only known two people to get alcohol poisoning. One had a bleeding ulcer and shouldn't have been drinking at all and the other was a very petite girl with serious family problems.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I wonder how you would know?

 

As I understand it, the original question sprung from an incident in which the adult was not a close friend. The child went to dinner with a friend and his/her parents. In that situation, how on earth would you know whether the parent driving your child was trustworthy about alcohol?

 

I think it's a huge leap to say that, because I abstain in part based on self-knowledge, "most" people do so. Do you not know any alcoholics? I do. I've known lots of them. And I've known even more folks who might not qualify as "alcoholics" but definitely have a problem controlling themselves around alcohol. In fact, I'd say I know more of those people than I do those who are like me.

 

My daughter is doing a show. Thus far, during the course of rehearsals and two weeks of performances, two out of about 20 members of the cast have been hospitalized with alcohol poisoning. I'd venture a guess that they didn't mean to make themselves sick enough to require hospitalization and missing shows. But they certainly showed poor judgement.

 

I quit going to holidays with my extended family because two or three of my family members would have two drinks and start going at each other. It didn't take much to set it off, but they would ruin the holiday for any of us sober enough to remember what happened. (They were lucky and didn't remember -- or at least so they claimed.)

 

Of my group of close friends in high school, more than half of them found their lives de-railed by substance abuse problems.

 

I was married briefly to an alcoholic.

 

Sure, maybe I've just had rotten luck. But I've had enough of it to make me feel a little skeptical about trusting other people when it comes to booze.

 

But see, you are basically making the absolute statement "Alcohol always causes impairment". I have a problem with that (even though I have a bad history with alcohol and rarely drink). I would have a problem with making an absolute statement the other way like "Alcohol never ever causes impairment" too.

 

The thing is, people who see certain issues as black-and-white and people who see those same issues in shades of gray, often feel uncomfortable with each other. One is going to have to give in to the other. And if you are used to operating on one set of assumptions without really thinking about it, it does take something out of you to police yourself when in the presence of the other person. Sometimes the shades of gray people get tired of giving in and just try to avoid the situation all together. It doesn't mean that they are choosing that issue over you, it simply means that being black and white on the issue is rather exhausting to them and if there is another alternative ready (playdates with no driving for instance) then they are going to take it.

[TravelingChris]

I don't think we would freak out but we would question their judgement. In our family, we make sure we don't do anything like that we would regret. So even though dh can definitely drink a beer or glass of wine with dinner and drive, he doesn't. I drive then. But we wouldn't even have alcohol out if we had underage (by that I mean under 18) friends over. While my dh likes to have a drink, he doesn't have one every night and he certainly has no issue in not having one when he would be driving someone else's kid.

 

In the same way, we don't start showing M rated shows or R rated movies to young teens. If the child was 17 or so, I may change my mind or ask the parent. But there are plenty of PG13 movies we own so they can watch one of those.

[Haiku]

someone who drinks before driving around with someone else's child in the car is demonstrating poor judgement right there.

 

 

You are accusing other people of poor judgment but wanting to substitute your own judgment of what's right. The law recognizes that people can have detectable levels of alcohol in their blood and still be able to operate a car. To accuse those who are fine with this idea of minimizing "drinking and driving" is not so kind, imo. You can hold whatever opinion you want and parent your kids however you want, but remember that when you are talking about judgment or lack thereof, substituting your judgment of what's right for someone else's just because it's your judgment and not theirs doesn't automatically make your judgment correct.

 

The law absolutely distinguishes between people who have consumed alcohol and people who are too impaired to drive.

 

Tara

[kitten18]

No, actually, the OP seemed to involve a close family member. That is why she was upset at the response she received when she confronted them. I know, the posts are gone, but there are pieces still there quoted by other people. She said it was "much sadder" than me "not wanting to be her friend," which (to me, at least) implies that it involved a family member.

:iagree: That was the impression I got as well.

[In2why]

You might know it, but I would not. And, as I said, since one of the things drinking alcohol does is impair one's judgement, I'm not sure I think the assurance that one doesn't "think" one is impaired is much comfort.

 

However, as I've also said, I'm not out to change your mind or your behaviour. You're an adult, and you are free to do what you believe is best. You don't need to change my mind. I don't need to change yours.

 

I promise I'll treat your opinion with respect, if you'll return the favor.

 

 

This response makes the most sense to me. Based on the OP my opinion stands that it wouldn't bother me. But the real question in my mind is why even ask if you know that it would bother you. Each of us are parenting our children the best we know how and with the standards we have. It doesn't matter what popular opinion is or is not when it comes to deciding what is okay for your children. Sometimes "I am the parent and that is Why" is a complete sentence. The only time I would ask for opinions is if I really hadn't formed an opinion yet and wanted to look at an issue from both sides.

As for the issue of drinking my only problem is that someone should say something beforehand if it is a problem. Then I get to decide if I want to still take their children. If it were dinner, I would still take them. If it were on a 3 day camping trip, I probably wouldn't. I think you and I are similar in our reactions. I wouldn't be upset because someone had different standards than I did, if they approached me in a non judgemental way because it would just be an exchange, not an attack on my standards. I wouldn't take it personally and I wouldn't feel the need to judge their standards as right or wrong either. Just different ideas based on each of our own personal experiences. No biggie. But I would feel different if the child called the parents at the dinner. Likely that would mean missing our plans for a movie later, or sitting around for a half an hour waiting for a parent to show up. That could be awkward. Maybe not, but probably. I don't know how I would feel about that.