1st grade math frustrations

[buram]

Has anyone's child ever has troubles with math problems like 1+?=2. My dd is doing great with addition but she is gettin hung up on these each time they come up. I give her beans or anything available to work the problem out. She is able to do I but o don't think she is understanding what she is doing at all. We are using MM 1A and it is coming up over and over. Also, dd just turned 6 in Sept so maybe she is just not ready. Should I just keep plugging along and she will get it eventually?

[bbkaren]

My son is still trying to get that too. He's confused about the commutative property as well (2+5 is the same as 5+2) even though I use counters, etc.

 

The three-sided flash cards are helping.

 

The sum is at the top and each of the addends are on the bottom two corners so I cover different bits each time and he's starting to get it...slowly...

 

I hesitate to move on until he has it nailed.

[SorrelZG]

Do you do the games suggested ... I can't remember what she calls it ... where you have a certain number of beans (or whatever) and you take some and she has to guess how many you took? We would do a lot of that and I would put the whole thing into words .. something like - "4! That's right! 2 beans plus FOUR beans makes 6!" and so when we came to those problems on paper I would put it into a word problem: "2 beans plus how many makes 6 beans?" or "There are supposed to be 6 beans (point to total). There are two on the table (point to 2). How many did I take? (point to little blue box)" and then I would reword it again to read it back but drop the beans (or Cheerios, in our case). Eventually .. some way through that first half of 1A .. he got the hang of those blue boxes. He really didn't like them for a while. I also tried telling him the box was just covering up a number just like when I take away some of the Cheerios and he had to guess what was hiding. That helped a little too.

 

Long story short .. patient persistence.

Edited October 20, 2011 by SCGS

[Mama2two]

Are you familiar with whole/part circles? That is what helped my daughter when she was confused. I ask her what are you looking for? the whole or the part? She also does partitioning on the abacus, which also helped her visualize it (we use Rightstart)

[FairProspects]

Are you familiar with whole/part circles? That is what helped my daughter when she was confused. I ask her what are you looking for? the whole or the part? She also does partitioning on the abacus, which also helped her visualize it (we use Rightstart)

 

This worked for ds too. We kept using it on the whiteboard even when we switched to MM.

[Spy Car]

Cuisenaire Rods.

 

Bill

[Ellie]

I would expect a 6yo child to not understand that, especially not so early in the school year.

[KristenR]

Cuisenaire Rods.

 

Bill

 

 

:iagree: Wholeheartedly.

[justLisa]

Do you do the games suggested ... I can't remember what she calls it ... where you have a certain number of beans (or whatever) and you take some and she has to guess how many you took? We would do a lot of that and I would put the whole thing into words .. something like - "4! That's right! 2 beans plus FOUR beans makes 6!" and so when we came to those problems on paper I would put it into a word problem: "2 beans plus how many makes 6 beans?" or "There are supposed to be 6 beans (point to total). There are two on the table (point to 2). How many did I take? (point to little blue box)" and then I would reword it again to read it back but drop the beans (or Cheerios, in our case). Eventually .. some way through that first half of 1A .. he got the hang of those blue boxes. He really didn't like them for a while. I also tried telling him the box was just covering up a number just like when I take away some of the Cheerios and he had to guess what was hiding. That helped a little too.

 

Long story short .. patient persistence.

 

Some when hiding?! DD LOVES this. She is 5.5 and just started to be able to translate this on paper in a math sentence. But she can play this backwards and forwards with any number through 15 it's pretty amazing! She works out of SM book 1 also and can now make that connection between the game with objects and numbers on paper.

[sleepymommy]

Do you do the games suggested ... I can't remember what she calls it ... where you have a certain number of beans (or whatever) and you take some and she has to guess how many you took? We would do a lot of that and I would put the whole thing into words .. something like - "4! That's right! 2 beans plus FOUR beans makes 6!" and so when we came to those problems on paper I would put it into a word problem: "2 beans plus how many makes 6 beans?" or "There are supposed to be 6 beans (point to total). There are two on the table (point to 2). How many did I take? (point to little blue box)" and then I would reword it again to read it back but drop the beans (or Cheerios, in our case). Eventually .. some way through that first half of 1A .. he got the hang of those blue boxes. He really didn't like them for a while. I also tried telling him the box was just covering up a number just like when I take away some of the Cheerios and he had to guess what was hiding. That helped a little too.

 

Long story short .. patient persistence.

 

:iagree:

 

This is similar to what I did with ds. I started out with smaller numbers to gain his confidence and then we moved onto bigger numbers. We also played card games like "Go to the Dump". He had to really know most of his number bonds before he was able to do those kinds of problems with ease.

[veggiegal]

Cuisenaire Rods.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

 

That's how they are taught from the beginning in MUS (using MUS blocks, which are a version of cuisinaire rods--we have both) and my kids have never had any problems. If your child can do them with a physical representation at this age, I would say that is satisfactory. The next step is to take what they understand with physical manipulatives, and show them how it is written in "math language" (mathematical symbolism). Being able to 'translate' between the concrete, symbolic, and abstract is a skill that will develop with time. (I honestly think this is largely developmental).

 

Very young kids also have difficulty with these questions if you put an 'x' or a '?' in the unknown's spot. Leaving it blank or making an empty box in which they can write the answer works better, IME.

Edited October 20, 2011 by veggiegal
forgot the apostrophe! Hopefully the kitten is saved! :-)

[cdrumm4448]

We're having a similar issue here with Singapore 1A. There was a problem the other day that showed a picture of a bag next to 4 apples. The problem was "There are 10 apples in all. How many apples are in the bag?" My daughter was paralyzed and actually started crying over it.

 

I finally got out some counters and she worked it out, but it was pretty bad. She knows how to do number bonds, but some of these abstract problems really throw her for a loop. I'm hoping that the more she encounters them the easier they will be. I don't remember working on problems like that when I was in first. This is like pre-algebra.:lol:

 

We just did that lesson a few days ago. I saw it and thought, "Oh, no!" because I didn't think DD would be able to solve it. She was a little confused at first, but after seeing the examples, she seems to have caught on. Give it more time. We have a habit of using fingers as manipulatives (from Prof B) when there is confusion, so she had continuity. I actually like fingers as manipulatives since they don't get all over the place and don't need to be put away!

[ladydusk]

I choose something my kids like and make it a word problem, for my son it is toy cars. You have 1 toy car, how many do I have to give you for you to have 2 toy cars. They always get it then ;)

[Spy Car]

We just did that lesson a few days ago. I saw it and thought, "Oh, no!" because I didn't think DD would be able to solve it. She was a little confused at first, but after seeing the examples, she seems to have caught on. Give it more time. We have a habit of using fingers as manipulatives (from Prof B) when there is confusion, so she had continuity. I actually like fingers as manipulatives since they don't get all over the place and don't need to be put away!

 

That's the downside too. You can't put the fingers away and some kids will end up using them to count with their whole lives.

 

2+[ ]=5 is so easily learned with C Rods (or MUS blocks) that isn't even funny.

 

Bill

[SorrelZG]

That's the downside too. You can't put the fingers away and some kids will end up using them to count with their whole lives.

 

2+[ ]=5 is so easily learned with C Rods (or MUS blocks) that isn't even funny.

 

Bill

 

With the Prof. B method, there is no counting.

 

Also, that sum is so easily learned with Prof B on the fingers before counting is taught (presuming one managed to preserve their child from learning to count prior to beginning the method) .. I wouldn't even have to go find my rods. :D

Edited October 20, 2011 by SCGS

[bbkaren]

Thanks for the info; we have a lot of rods of varying lengths and colors that we got at a yard sale. Actually, they're not really 3D rods, but rather transparent flat rods to be used on an overhead. Would these work the same as the 3d rods? And if so, can you recommend a source of information for someone who has no clue how they work?

[Spy Car]

With the Prof. B method, there is no counting.

 

Also, that sum is so easily learned with Prof B on the fingers before counting is taught (presuming one managed to preserve their child from learning to count prior to beginning the method) .. I wouldn't even have to go find my rods. :D

 

RS ties this "use fingers, but no counting" thing too. I remain skeptical.

 

And how do you deal with 7+[ ]=15?

 

C Rods. Best things since sliced bread :D

 

Bill

[veggiegal]

Thanks for the info; we have a lot of rods of varying lengths and colors that we got at a yard sale. Actually, they're not really 3D rods, but rather transparent flat rods to be used on an overhead. Would these work the same as the 3d rods? And if so, can you recommend a source of information for someone who has no clue how they work?

 

Assuming they have the correct proportions, yes they will work. There are lots of more complex and detailed things you can do with these rods, but at the most basic level, the idea is to get children seeing the numbers as a 'whole', rather than counting separate objects. So a 1-rod is your shortest rod, and 1-unit (usually centimetre) long. The 2-rod is twice that length, the 3-rod 3 cms long, etc. So when you have a question like:

 

4 + 3 =

 

The child takes the 3-rod, the 4-rod (are yours different colours? this helps) and lays them end to end (like train cars), and then finds the rod that matches that length--i.e., the 7-rod. If the child selects the wrong rod first, they can see if their guess was too short or too long. This is very different than a child counting "1, 2, 3, 4" and "1, 2, 3" and then putting them together in a group and counting "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7". (More advanced students will use 'counting on'--after the 4, they will say "5, 6, 7" as they count blocks, fingers, whatever. But with rods, there simply is no way to 'count', period.

 

To do the problems of the OP, like:

 

2 + ? = 6

 

you child would take the 2-rod and 6-rod (what is 'known') and place them so that the 2-rod lies over or alongside the 6-rod, like this:

 

--

------

 

Now the child needs to find the rod that would make the top line the same length as the bottom line--i.e., the 4-rod. Again, depending how they guess they can see if their number is too large or too small, and revise their guess accordingly.

 

The rods also work spectacularly for learning what numbers group to 10, a useful skill in our base-10 system. MUS has the kids build a wall of tens, with a 10-rod on the bottom, 1+9 on top, then 2+8, 3+7, etc. For some kids the visual and concrete representation of those bars locks those facts in their brain in a much stronger way than kids who are 'counting up' to 10.

 

Make sense?

[Spy Car]

Assuming they have the correct proportions, yes they will work. There are lots of more complex and detailed things you can do with these rods, but at the most basic level, the idea is to get children seeing the numbers as a 'whole', rather than counting separate objects. So a 1-rod is your shortest rod, and 1-unit (usually centimetre) long. The 2-rod is twice that length, the 3-rod 3 cms long, etc. So when you have a question like:

 

4 + 3 =

 

The child takes the 3-rod, the 4-rod (are yours different colours? this helps) and lays them end to end (like train cars), and then finds the rod that matches that length--i.e., the 7-rod. If the child selects the wrong rod first, they can see if their guess was too short or too long. This is very different than a child counting "1, 2, 3, 4" and "1, 2, 3" and then putting them together in a group and counting "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7". (More advanced students will use 'counting on'--after the 4, they will say "5, 6, 7" as they count blocks, fingers, whatever. But with rods, there simply is no way to 'count', period.

 

To do the problems of the OP, like:

 

2 + ? = 6

 

you child would take the 2-rod and 6-rod (what is 'known') and place them so that the 2-rod lies over or alongside the 6-rod, like this:

 

--

------

 

Now the child needs to find the rod that would make the top line the same length as the bottom line--i.e., the 4-rod. Again, depending how they guess they can see if their number is too large or too small, and revise their guess accordingly.

 

The rods also work spectacularly for learning what numbers group to 10, a useful skill in our base-10 system. MUS has the kids build a wall of tens, with a 10-rod on the bottom, 1+9 on top, then 2+8, 3+7, etc. For some kids the visual and concrete representation of those bars locks those facts in their brain in a much stronger way than kids who are 'counting up' to 10.

 

Make sense?

 

Great explanation!

 

Bill

[blondeviolin]

I agree with the cuisenaire rod recommendation. These types of problems are really easy for my 5yo...I'd assume it's because of her familiarity with the rods.

 

Does it help if you say, "6 plus what equal 8?"

[LMD]

we use c-rods and number bond circles, and practice practice practice.

[SorrelZG]

RS ties this "use fingers, but no counting" thing too. I remain skeptical.

 

And how do you deal with 7+[ ]=15?

 

C Rods. Best things since sliced bread :D

 

Bill

 

 

I honestly haven't made it that far in yet. I've been fooling around with other math programs.

 

I do appreciate the C. rods, it was via C. rods that DS discovered multiplication and square numbers, but they have their evangelists and my ODD self just has to ride a different bandwagon. Meanwhile, I can say that Prof B has had my children, at 4, doing sums under 10 in their heads without counting.

[bbkaren]

Great explanation!

 

Bill

I agree! Thanks so much for the explanation, veggie!

 

It's simpler than I thought it was...

[cdrumm4448]

That's the downside too. You can't put the fingers away and some kids will end up using them to count with their whole lives.

 

2+[ ]=5 is so easily learned with C Rods (or MUS blocks) that isn't even funny.

 

Bill

 

I agree. DD will need to eventually master all her math facts.

 

I'm not that comfortable with the rods, so that may be why I don't break them out much. And my DS generally just wants to build things with them.

 

ETA: I think that assigning value to the rods is my problem. I find that step annoying. Does that become second nature with repeated use?

Edited October 21, 2011 by cdrumm4448

[blondeviolin]

I think that assigning value to the rods is my problem. I find that step annoying. Does that become second nature with repeated use?

 

Yes. At first you will find yourself building the staircase regularly. Soon it will be second nature. I would also expect your student will know the order better than you will. :D

[Spy Car]

ETA: I think that assigning value to the rods is my problem. I find that step annoying. Does that become second nature with repeated use?

 

Yes. Very quickly. And the younger the better (and faster) this occurs.

 

Some adults lose the child-like quality to pick up the values instantly.

 

Bill

[lea1]

Assuming they have the correct proportions, yes they will work. There are lots of more complex and detailed things you can do with these rods, but at the most basic level, the idea is to get children seeing the numbers as a 'whole', rather than counting separate objects. So a 1-rod is your shortest rod, and 1-unit (usually centimetre) long. The 2-rod is twice that length, the 3-rod 3 cms long, etc. So when you have a question like:

 

4 + 3 =

 

The child takes the 3-rod, the 4-rod (are yours different colours? this helps) and lays them end to end (like train cars), and then finds the rod that matches that length--i.e., the 7-rod. If the child selects the wrong rod first, they can see if their guess was too short or too long. This is very different than a child counting "1, 2, 3, 4" and "1, 2, 3" and then putting them together in a group and counting "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7". (More advanced students will use 'counting on'--after the 4, they will say "5, 6, 7" as they count blocks, fingers, whatever. But with rods, there simply is no way to 'count', period.

 

To do the problems of the OP, like:

 

2 + ? = 6

 

you child would take the 2-rod and 6-rod (what is 'known') and place them so that the 2-rod lies over or alongside the 6-rod, like this:

 

--

------

 

Now the child needs to find the rod that would make the top line the same length as the bottom line--i.e., the 4-rod. Again, depending how they guess they can see if their number is too large or too small, and revise their guess accordingly.

 

The rods also work spectacularly for learning what numbers group to 10, a useful skill in our base-10 system. MUS has the kids build a wall of tens, with a 10-rod on the bottom, 1+9 on top, then 2+8, 3+7, etc. For some kids the visual and concrete representation of those bars locks those facts in their brain in a much stronger way than kids who are 'counting up' to 10.

 

Make sense?

 

This is definitely the best explanation I have seen and I wish I had seen it before I sold mine. I tried many times to understand how to use C-rods and, for some reason, could not get it. I had Miquon and could not figure out how to explain the rods to my two sons. I found it very frustrating because I have always been pretty comfortable with math and have done fairly well with it in the past and I had to take up through Calc 4 for my BA in Computer Science.

 

My two sons had trouble with this exact type of problem. Even through they were understanding the other addition problems, I knew they were missing something when they couldn't get this. We were using SM 1A. I dropped back to RS A to see if that might help. So far, it is going well and they are enjoying it more because it is more at their level, or possibly a bit below their level right now. They are really Kindergartens but I was hoping we might be able to do SM 1A anyway. For now, we will stick with RS A and after that we will re-evaluate.

[bluechicken]

Yes, I agree. We were using the C-rods to teach SM 1A and my DD REALLY picked it up fast. I put them away when we did the review in MM. She really struggled. I took out the C-rods and she flew through it. She knows the values of those rods well and sometimes she has the answer before I do. :) I was amazed how quickly she learned what each of their values are. The younger you introduce and teach with them, the better.

[veggiegal]

Glad my explanation was helpful. And based on your feedback, I have a great idea for a math-related blogpost tomorrow. :tongue_smilie:

[buram]

Thank you so much everyone for the suggestions. I have been wanting to buy c-rods anyways so now I definitly will. I will also try the other suggestions as well. I really helps me though just to know she is not the only one. She loves to add all the time but just gets hung up on that type of problem.

 

Also, sorry it took me so long to reply. I managed to lock myself out of my account and just figured out how to fix it.

 

One more thing, what is a good amount of cuisenaire rods to have? I have one dd6 and one dd3 who HAS to do everything dd6 does.

[Spy Car]

Thank you so much everyone for the suggestions. I have been wanting to buy c-rods anyways so now I definitly will. I will also try the other suggestions as well. I really helps me though just to know she is not the only one. She loves to add all the time but just gets hung up on that type of problem.

 

Also, sorry it took me so long to reply. I managed to lock myself out of my account and just figured out how to fix it.

 

One more thing, what is a good amount of cuisenaire rods to have? I have one dd6 and one dd3 who HAS to do everything dd6 does.

 

A 155 piece "small group" set is a reasonable minimum. Keep a eye on the Ten Rods (Orange) as it is really important to have ten of these if you want to model numbers. If there is a bigger set in your budget, it couldn't hurt.

 

I prefer the "plastic" (non-score, non-linking) C Rods over the wooden ones. I prefer the "idea" of wood ones, but the reality is the synthetic ones have a greater density, feeling of heft, and IMO a nicer feel. Weird, but....

 

I like to recommend that when people get C Rods they also get a set of (10) base-10 "flats." These are the same scale as C Rods and can serve as 100 values when modeling three digit numbers.

 

Later, you could "reassign" a value of 1-Unit (One) to the base-10 "flat" and then Orange Rods become 1-Tenths and the other C Rods become "Hundredths", but that is down the line.

 

Bill

[FO4UR]

veggiegal gave a great explanation of what I do.:iagree:

 

 

I will add....I let my dc skip sections that they don't understand how to work. (This is how I evaluate what I need to teach!;))

 

My dd6 skipped the missing addend section when she was there. So, we played a game...."guess which rod is missing." I lined them up like veggiegal described and when she found 10 or so rods she beat me. It wasn't a full 24hours before she went and found her MM1A book and completed those skipped problems.

 

 

For the C Rods to be effective, the child needs plenty of time playing with them...internalizing those values/colors. Things like the missing addend problems *never* gave ds8 issues and probably b/c he played more voraciously with the rods from a very early age. (It seems intuitive to him...like the measure of flour to a baker...) So foster PLAY with the rods outside of math. I keep them at the table, but I allow other toys at the table. Build a house for little counting bears, make a road for matchbox cars, whatever floats your boat...so purchase a BUNCH of rods!!!

[9763653]

Spy car, can I have your thoughts too? We're doing Singapore 1a too and are working on number bonds (started the book this month). DD is having great trouble doing math without counting every time.

 

Will knowing amounts without counting manipulatives come naturally? What can we do to encourage this process? We don't have c-rods, and since they are not available where we live I'd rather not order them either... but I could probably make something similar myself. We use beans, an abacus that allows all the parts to be taken off, and lego blocks (stuck together or separately, this is also mentioned in the Singapore HIG).

[FO4UR]

Spy car, can I have your thoughts too? We're doing Singapore 1a too and are working on number bonds (started the book this month). DD is having great trouble doing math without counting every time.

 

Will knowing amounts without counting manipulatives come naturally? What can we do to encourage this process? We don't have c-rods, and since they are not available where we live I'd rather not order them either... but I could probably make something similar myself. We use beans, an abacus that allows all the parts to be taken off, and lego blocks (stuck together or separately, this is also mentioned in the Singapore HIG).

 

 

I'm not Spycar, but you could print some 1cm graph on cardstock, color it with marker, laminate and cut. It would do well in a pinch, even if you do lose the 3D aspect.

[9763653]

I'm not Spycar, but you could print some 1cm graph on cardstock, color it with marker, laminate and cut. It would do well in a pinch, even if you do lose the 3D aspect.

 

That is a good idea, and very easy to make!

 

Do you think c-rods really help with visualizing math problems without counting every time? Can someone explain how they help? For instance, if I ask DD to divide 8 up into as many different math problems as possible, she'll have no problem. If I ask her how much 5 and 3 make, she will count them out - preferably with manipulatives. If those are not available, she will use her hands or draw dots on paper.

 

I'd like to encourage her to "see" how many manipulatives are present without counting too. DD is good at memorizing, but I don't want her to simply memorize math facts, and instead hope she'll really understand number bonds. That should come with practice, I guess. The trick is keeping it relatively fun.

[Walking-Iris]

Someone mentioned that c-rods were the best thing since sliced bread---I agree completely---100%

 

We love those things.

 

If you buy an intro kit then it comes with a pamphlet that explains how to use them, with various activity exercises. This is what I bought at first and then I got more and was given more at various times. If you have more than one kid you definitely want a lot of them. :) I found that little pamphlet explained them better and had clearer illustrations and diagrams than I could find in Miquon Lab Annotations.

 

The more a kid uses them, the more they internalize the value. We've worked out all 4 operations and fractions with them. I honestly can't imagine life without them. In 1st grade they were out every day, then last year they were used to explain new concepts (mult. and div. and fractions). This year they have only been pulled out for a quick review if it was needed and I suspect we may pull them out periodically for more mult. and div. work. Definitely a "required" in every math manipulative kit!!

Edited October 22, 2011 by Walking-Iris

[joyfulhomeschooler]

My son, when in 1st grade had a hard time with those too. He is in 3rd grade now and doing great with math... first grade was our worst math year. It was very time consuming getting a lesson done and there were some days where we had to stop because tears started. I learned to just relax and it just came with time and practice. I would just keep using the counters, she'll get it when her mind is ready.

[Mystie]

:iagree:

 

That's how they are taught from the beginning in MUS (using MUS blocks, which are a version of cuisinaire rods--we have both) and my kids have never had any problems. If your child can do them with a physical representation at this age, I would say that is satisfactory. The next step is to take what they understand with physical manipulatives, and show them how it is written in "math language" (mathematical symbolism). Being able to 'translate' between the concrete, symbolic, and abstract is a skill that will develop with time. (I honestly think this is largely developmental).

 

Very young kids also have difficulty with these questions if you put an 'x' or a '?' in the unknown's spot. Leaving it blank or making an empty box in which they can write the answer works better, IME.

:iagree:

 

I'm doing these now in MUS with my second son, and he can easily do them with the blocks but often blanks when he sees the equation on paper. Just keep practicing and it will click. At just-6 I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Spy Car]

Spy car, can I have your thoughts too? We're doing Singapore 1a too and are working on number bonds (started the book this month). DD is having great trouble doing math without counting every time.

 

Will knowing amounts without counting manipulatives come naturally? What can we do to encourage this process? We don't have c-rods, and since they are not available where we live I'd rather not order them either... but I could probably make something similar myself. We use beans, an abacus that allows all the parts to be taken off, and lego blocks (stuck together or separately, this is also mentioned in the Singapore HIG).

 

Yes. I think you are getting great wisdom from the other posters. I would get the C Rods. In my option the Singapore HIGs (which I think are good) missed the boat in not making these the primary manipulative of Singapore math. They are the perfect complement to the Model Method.

 

By having played with rods my son (like Paula's) didn't even flinch when given missing addend type questions. They were intrinsically understood.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

That is a good idea, and very easy to make!

 

It would not be the same experience.

 

Do you think c-rods really help with visualizing math problems without counting every time?

 

Emphatic yes.

 

Can someone explain how they help? For instance, if I ask DD to divide 8 up into as many different math problems as possible, she'll have no problem. If I ask her how much 5 and 3 make, she will count them out - preferably with manipulatives. If those are not available, she will use her hands or draw dots on paper.

 

If a child is finding the sum of 3+5 they would lay the two rods (Light Green and Yellow) end to end. What rod is the same length (8 cm)? A Brown Rod (normal value of 8). This happens quickly.

 

The values are understood as parts (3 and 5) and a whole (of 8). No counting.

 

I'd like to encourage her to "see" how many manipulatives are present without counting too. DD is good at memorizing, but I don't want her to simply memorize math facts, and instead hope she'll really understand number bonds. That should come with practice, I guess. The trick is keeping it relatively fun.

 

Get the C Rods. They will prove their worth.

 

Bill

[9763653]

It would not be the same experience.

 

 

 

Emphatic yes.

 

 

 

If a child is finding the sum of 3+5 they would lay the two rods (Light Green and Yellow) end to end. What rod is the same length (8 cm)? A Brown Rod (normal value of 8). This happens quickly.

 

The values are understood as parts (3 and 5) and a whole (of 8). No counting.

 

 

 

Get the C Rods. They will prove their worth.

 

Bill

 

I'm convinced enough to want to give them a try, but as always... shipping trouble ahead. I looked on Amazon, but they won't ship to my country. Off to hunt elsewhere.

 

How many of them do you really need? Is an introductory kit sufficient?

[9763653]

Also, I notied some of them have lines to separate each unit. That would encourage counting.

 

ETA, these look good, and amazon.co.uk will actually ship to us. Is this set what we want?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Learning-Resources-Cuisenaire-Rods-Introductory/dp/B000FFWCOW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319308573&sr=8-1

[boscopup]

Also, I notied some of them have lines to separate each unit. That would encourage counting.

 

ETA, these look good, and amazon.co.uk will actually ship to us. Is this set what we want?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Learning-Resources-Cuisenaire-Rods-Introductory/dp/B000FFWCOW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319308573&sr=8-1

 

That's the wood version of the smaller set. The bigger, plastic set (which I'd recommend... I have the smaller set and need MORE :D) is here:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Learning-Resources-Cuisenaire-Small-Plastic/dp/B001AZ6W7E/ref=sr_1_3?s=kids&ie=UTF8&qid=1319309669&sr=1-3

Edited October 22, 2011 by boscopup

[Spy Car]

That's the wood version of the smaller set. The bigger set (which I'd recommend... I have the smaller set and need MORE :D) is here:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Learning-Resources-Cuisenaire-Small-Plastic/dp/B001AZ6W7E/ref=sr_1_3?s=kids&ie=UTF8&qid=1319309669&sr=1-3

 

I will second these. 155 is a better (more useful) set and the plastic ones (believe it or not) are better than the wood.

 

Bill

[9763653]

Thanks folks! Now I'm off to find other stuff to order on Amazon to level the shipping costs out :).

[kalanamak]

I am a huge fan of math games. Kiddo loved to sit down and play with me, with math facts go fish and math facts bingo our favs, until he got good enough to do Sum Swamp, Money Bags, and Dino Race.

 

For the bingo, make a large card with 9 squares, and put things like "4" or "2+1" in each one. Then make cards that fit the square with the opposites ( 2+2 and 3, in my example). Lay them face down and pull up one at a time, and have a discard pile for non-matches. First card filled wins.

 

It just seems to me that child learn by playing, and that this helps seat number-sense deep in the brain.

 

We also played War without face cards, and I'd ask, every 5th card or so "how many more"? (so that if I turned over a 2 and he a three, he'd tell me one. If he got it right, I'd give him another card from my hand, so that he always "won". He was too young to see this was being generous. I mean, what little kid doesn't think all good things should come to them?:))

[kalanamak]

Cuisenaire Rods.

 

Bill

 

Just speaking up to the reminder that not all kids will do rods. My son would literally hide them to avoid having to do them. Now then, the 1000 cube, 100 flats, 10 rods, and "tofus" as he called the one cubes, he liked. Go figure.

[lea1]

I will second these. 155 is a better (more useful) set and the plastic ones (believe it or not) are better than the wood.

 

Bill

 

Why do they need so many?

 

Your explanation of how these are used to facilitate the understanding of whole/part, addition and finding the missing addend makes much sense to me. So, how do you get them to play with them? When I had them, my sons would play with them for all of a couple of minutes and then they would move on to something else. I definitely didn't have enough, from what you all are saying. But can you explain further why they need so many, how they use them in play, etc.? Is there a way to facilitate this kind of learning without using Miquon?

[lea1]

Bump

[boscopup]

Why do they need so many?

 

If you want to ever use big numbers, you'll want enough of each rod to do that. The basic kit has 75 rods (or 74?), and IIRC, it's only 5 orange (10) rods. The 155 kit has 10 orange rods, so you can exchange your orange rods for a base 10 flat.

 

Also, in my house, I lose many... Seriously, I'm going to get the 155 bucket to add to my existing basic one. We recently found an orange rod... I think I'm up to 4 of them. :tongue_smilie: The basic kit has worked fine for what DS2 is currently doing in his K math program, but it's not going to be enough before too long.