poetic license Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I am sorry, but the opinions expressed in this thread would in my book be categorized under over-protective parenting. We are very animal-friendly, btw, and I go to great lengths to re-home unwanted animals and visit our local no-kill shelter, but my kids still understand when it is not realistic to keep an animal and when a book is just a story with a cover. :iagree: see, this whole time, I thought I was the crazy one! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 To each their own. It is not about the actual issues presented in the book. It is about wanting my math and science books to be free from the author's blatant declarations of his superiority, as he dictates when and how these issues should be introduced. I also don't appreciate his casual style, verging on mockery, and the over use of hyperboles while discussing such issues as dog euthenesia. Ummmm...YOU dictate that still. You either buy these and use them, or you don't. So, like any other author, they introduce topics and situations and concepts that YOU have to actually choose when to introduce-- by choosing, purchasing, and using their books. You don't have to introduce them at all...b/c you don't have to teach from LoF. I choose not to teach ancients in early elementary school b/c of the fake gods and other such things I choose not to introduce to my kids that early. I can't say (MOH, TOG, et al.) is horrible b/c it's teaching those horrid things and has dictated and chosen that I must introduce those things to my kids in 1st grade. It's his casual style that draws in so many...b/c who says math has to be anything else?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 :iagree: see, this whole time, I thought I was the crazy one! :lol: :iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I haven't read the elementary series, but I disagree with the assessment wrt the rest of the books. Even tossing the idea of a 6yo professor aside, things regularly happen in Fred's world that cannot happen in the "real" world. Period. It's a comically exaggerated, cartoonish world, one that is as clearly made up as Babar. Wait. Fred's not real? That's a game changer for me :svengo:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Wait. Fred's not real? That's a game changer for me :svengo:. Sorry. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I am sorry, but the opinions expressed in this thread would in my book be categorized under over-protective parenting. We are very animal-friendly, btw, and I go to great lengths to re-home unwanted animals and visit our local no-kill shelter, but my kids still understand when it is not realistic to keep an animal and when a book is just a story with a cover. :iagree: I'm a dog person myself, but I think people way overreact to bad things happening to animals in fiction (books, movies, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I am sorry, but the opinions expressed in this thread would in my book be categorized under over-protective parenting. We are very animal-friendly, btw, and I go to great lengths to re-home unwanted animals and visit our local no-kill shelter, but my kids still understand when it is not realistic to keep an animal and when a book is just a story with a cover. :iagree: I've been avoiding this thread for that reason. My kids read about disturbing things all the time. Sometimes it's in fiction, sometimes it's in non-fiction. Heck, sometimes disturbing things happen in real life. I just can't wrap my head around getting upset about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delaney Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 :iagree: see, this whole time, I thought I was the crazy one! :lol: :iagree: I've been avoiding this thread for that reason. My kids read about disturbing things all the time. Sometimes it's in fiction, sometimes it's in non-fiction. Heck, sometimes disturbing things happen in real life. I just can't wrap my head around getting upset about this. Thank you....for the love of Pete! Buy the book, don't buy the book. Whatever. It is just a flippin book. This is almost as bad as the "should we ban Amazon" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Perhaps there's a little more issue with dead animals than dead people these days (proven by abortion and infanticide all over the world--- just don't kill those cute little puppies). Loved your point here :) We certainly read much more horrible things in history than these POSSIBLY euthanized animals. I say skip history altogether if your child can't handle reading about these dogs! History is way scary! ;) With LoF I am way more concerned in the conceptual teaching...is it even there?! We are part way through Apples and I just see story math, but not a bit of teaching HOW and WHY...just WHEN you'd use it in real life. For what it's worth, some people are actually pro-life in a consistent way. I don't want to see people having abortions OR euthanizing unwanted puppies. What bothers me about this is that it's completely unnecessary. History can be unpleasant, of course. And we've never skipped it just because it might be upsetting. The difference, for me, is that history is real. In this case, we're talking about a book intended for kids that has what seems like an extraneous story line about killing dogs. Sorry, while no one who knows us has ever called us "over-protective," I can't see any value whatsoever in including such a horrible and upsetting incident in a math book. I have an idea: Why doesn't this lovely Christian writer include a story in his next book about how many abortions people in one city have? That sounds like a great idea. After all, it's real, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoo_keeper Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I'm with you, Jenny :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Martin Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 His website seems normal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nov05mama Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Not really sure why this is turning into a back and forth argument? Thank you OP for the information b/c it is helpful no matter what your choice is. Some people, including myself, will feel comfortable continuing and using Dogs, and others won't. Why does it need to become a debate about which choice is the right (or wrong) one?! I don't go to the General Board b/c of back and forth arguing like this and I would hate to see it cropping up over here in a curriculum thread too...let it go, please. Make the choice for YOUR OWN FAMILY and leave it at that. Off soapbox now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Not really sure why this is turning into a back and forth argument? Thank you OP for the information b/c it is helpful no matter what your choice is. Some people, including myself, will feel comfortable continuing and using Dogs, and others won't. Why does it need to become a debate about which choice is the right (or wrong) one?! I don't go to the General Board b/c of back and forth arguing like this and I would hate to see it cropping up over here in a curriculum thread too...let it go, please. Make the choice for YOUR OWN FAMILY and leave it at that. Off soapbox now... Debates happen often in this forum. They're usually just more specific to curriculum. :) Just start a thread expressing a strong opinion about math or history. Someone around here will disagree with you. ETA: Oh and when people in this thread were starting to paint this guy as some kind of disturbed death-obsessed mathematician, I think it's worth speaking up and offering an alternative opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amyk Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Same here. Then again we read Lemony Snicket and Hillaire Belloc so... Congratulations :thumbup1: Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I haven't read the elementary series, but I disagree with the assessment wrt the rest of the books. Even tossing the idea of a 6yo professor aside, things regularly happen in Fred's world that cannot happen in the "real" world. Period. It's a comically exaggerated, cartoonish world, one that is as clearly made up as Babar. As in the fact he is a 6 year old math professor. :001_huh::tongue_smilie: Wait. Fred's not real? That's a game changer for me :svengo:. There doesn't seem to be a K.I.T.T.E.N.S. university either, I'm miffed. :glare: As for the dog issue, I don't know how I'd feel about it. LOF is a different kind of math book, it talks, it has a story line. If you want feel good bible verses with your math there are plenty of those too. Disney movies where the parent always die bother me. I refuse to have ds read Where the Red Ferns grows or Old Yeller because I will bawl like a baby. I worked for a vet for five years. I've seen enough euthanasia I probably have PTSD from it (only half kidding). But if it ran across in the elementary math book, one that I KNEW had a story line to it, I would use it as a talking point. Animal care is a pet peeve of mine. People treating pets like consumable objects bother me. Teaching kids that pets do die because of the choices made by others is a decent lesson, if framed correctly. Maybe "Fred's" message might help one more child think through bugging their parents for a pet. Maybe it might help a parent think through the responsibility of pet ownership. Yes, it's a tough subject. I don't know what age group this book was recommended for, and you (rhetorical) know your child best. If they can handle it, discuss it. If not change the wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoxanneB Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I'm reviving this thread because I have NEWS!!! regarding this Life of Fred: Dogs book. I just received it and we started today. I was telling my husband about the controversy. I turned to the last page to show him, and LO AND BEHOLD, there was a sticker on the last page that is in the shape of a newspaper page. Stanley heard the concern of his customers and added the following: The KITTEN Caboodle The Official Campus Newspaper of KITTENS University late breaking news No Doggies to Die KANSAS: Mrs. Hund, head of the KITTENS Animal Shelter, announced minutes ago that the shelter has received a gift of $50,000 from a wealthy artist. The money will be used to expand the shelter and provide 10,000 new enclosures for the dogs and cats. "No longer will we have crowding problems," Hunt told the KITTEN Caboodle. "Every animal can stay here until it is adopted. No more euthanasia." The donor wished to remain anonymous. All that Hunt could say was that he was four inches tall and wore a baseball cap with KFF on it. Just thought I'd pass this along. This series is AWESOME. We are loving every bit of it and will continue through to the final books. Edited January 20, 2012 by RoxanneB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manyblessings Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm reviving this thread because I have NEWS!!! regarding this Life of Fred: Dogs book. I just received it and we started today. I was telling my husband about the controversy. I turned to the last page to show him, and LO AND BEHOLD, there was a sticker on the last page that is in the shape of a newspaper page. Stanley heard the concern of his customers and added the following: The KITTEN Caboodle The Official Campus Newspaper of KITTENS University late breaking news No Doggies to Die KANSAS: Mrs. Hund, head of the KITTENS Animal Shelter, announced minutes ago that the shelter has received a gift of $50,000 from a wealthy artist. The money will be used to expand the shelter and provide 10,000 new enclosures for the dogs and cats. "No longer will we have crowding problems," Hunt told the KITTEN Caboodle. "Every animal can stay here until it is adopted. No more euthanasia." The donor wished to remain anonymous. All that Hunt could say was that he was four inches tall and wore a baseball cap with KFF on it. Just thought I'd pass this along. This seris is AWESOME. We are loving every bit of it and will continue through to the final books. Thank you for sharing this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgr Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Thank you for sharing this! :iagree: Thank you! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Oh how cool! I wonder if I can get a sticker for my last page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've been thinking about these books---this all seems beyond necessary for a "math" book. This thread helped me make my final decision. No Life of Fred for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyg Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 What a lovely ending! Thank you for posting. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calendula Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm reviving this thread because I have NEWS!!! regarding this Life of Fred: Dogs book. I just received it and we started today. I was telling my husband about the controversy. I turned to the last page to show him, and LO AND BEHOLD, there was a sticker on the last page that is in the shape of a newspaper page. Stanley heard the concern of his customers and added the following: The KITTEN Caboodle The Official Campus Newspaper of KITTENS University late breaking news No Doggies to Die KANSAS: Mrs. Hund, head of the KITTENS Animal Shelter, announced minutes ago that the shelter has received a gift of $50,000 from a wealthy artist. The money will be used to expand the shelter and provide 10,000 new enclosures for the dogs and cats. "No longer will we have crowding problems," Hunt told the KITTEN Caboodle. "Every animal can stay here until it is adopted. No more euthanasia." The donor wished to remain anonymous. All that Hunt could say was that he was four inches tall and wore a baseball cap with KFF on it. Oh good - I just received dogs and was wondering if someone had posted the update! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird Girl Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I just read the update to my kids, who've been discussing the ending of Dogs all this week. They are both delighted. I will say, as someone who worked in animal rescue for years, that I thought Schmidt's understanding of the overpopulation dilemma was presented both accurately and with sensitivity. If you don't want your kids to encounter anything upsetting in a math book, well, fine, skip LofF. But if you are willing to engage in math as a human discipline, with the same emotional impact of every other human discipline, then you can trust Schmidt to handle the material with the care it deserves. I wish a Kingie could save every unwanted dog or cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Um, are there seriously kids who are old enough to do math but who don't already know about unwanted dogs being euthanized??? I am truly not wanting to offend anyone, but it would honestly never have even crossed my mind to avoid the kids knowing about this. I mean, we've visited dog shelters and a cat home, and the kids ask questions, so how would I even avoid discussing that topic if I wanted to? Animal care is a pet peeve of mine. People treating pets like consumable objects bother me. Teaching kids that pets do die because of the choices made by others is a decent lesson, if framed correctly. Maybe "Fred's" message might help one more child think through bugging their parents for a pet. Maybe it might help a parent think through the responsibility of pet ownership. I feel the same way. Edited September 21, 2012 by Hotdrink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Um, are there seriously kids who are old enough to do math but who don't already know about unwanted dogs being euthanized??? I'm pretty sure the topic hasn't come up yet with my 5 year old. We're doing Butterflies now, so we will get there, and I'm sure we'll be talking about it a lot (this child asks questions all the time). All of our current dogs and cats are rescues, and he knows one of our dogs was shot with a BB gun repeatedly before being picked up by the rescue group, but the kids have not been to a shelter. I've gone alone when checking on a possible GSD for the GSD rescue group. I'm not bothered by the topic in Dogs, but no, my child old enough to do math has not been exposed yet to what happens to shelter animals. He has, however, witnessed animal death, as we have a farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelmama1209 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Um, are there seriously kids who are old enough to do math but who don't already know about unwanted dogs being euthanized??? um, yes. we don't hide stuff from our kids, but we are not dog owners, nor do we intend to be. my kids have never been to a shelter and have no idea that homeless pets eventually get killed. PS. my oldest is 7.5- plenty old enough to be doing math. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy_of_4 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Um, are there seriously kids who are old enough to do math but who don't already know about unwanted dogs being euthanized??? I am truly not wanting to offend anyone, but it would honestly never have even crossed my mind to avoid the kids knowing about this. I mean, we've visited dog shelters and a cat home, and the kids ask questions, so how would I even avoid discussing that topic if I wanted to? I feel the same way. My son is 5yrs old and is old enough to do math but has no clue about dogs being euthanized. We do not hide things from our kids, but it has never came up. If it came up we would talk about it, but I really do not see it coming up anytime soon. Both of our dogs are rescued dogs and it still has never came up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Well, I would actually love to be able to get the old version of Dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I have to say that I have a particularly sensitive 5 year old, who can barely watch any movies without sobbing and running from the room, and she could handle this. What is presented is true. People often unthinkingly get pets that they decide they don't really want. Christmas is a particularly common time of year for puppies and kittens to be given as adorable gifts, with no real thought to long-term care. And when shelters have too many pets, some must be put down. Even "no kill" shelters have to dispose of un-adoptable animals: they do so by sending those animals to kill shelters. This is just a fact, and surely one that a 5 or 6 year old can understand. And probably some good food for thought for many 5 or 6 year olds who are begging for pets but don't have any concept of what it takes to care for a pet. DD is also aware that these books do not exist in the real world. We're only on Apples, and so far we have a 5 year old math professor, his doll who draws better than he does, and there was just a storyline with a giant flood that appeared and then disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Um, are there seriously kids who are old enough to do math but who don't already know about unwanted dogs being euthanized??? I am truly not wanting to offend anyone, but it would honestly never have even crossed my mind to avoid the kids knowing about this. . Some don't. While I believe in taking good care of pets, I am also not opposed to pet euthanisia for old & suffering pets and for dangerous ones (yes, there really are some!). When I was young my parents told me that they put the animal to sleep, which softened it. They didn't lie--I knew the animal had to die & was sad--but I knew they didn't suffer, either, because that's how it was done. Even very sensitive children do need to learn about this, and that sometimes it happens even with pets who aren't old & sick, etc. Of course, later my dad would give an old, sick dog a treat to eat & shoot it in the head (excellent aim, so the dog didn't know what happened), but NEVER so that we had to see it, even as adults. He used to hunt, but he never once did anything mean to that animal prior to that, & would even go so far at to do surgery to help them (long story, but back when he became a doctor, there was no vet where we lived, so people came to the MDs for vet work.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) I was assuming that every little kid loved visiting the dog shelter! I guess I forgot that not every family has an animal-mad child who wants to be a vet :lol: Also my kids just aren't the sensitive type, at least on the subject of killing animals. I still remember when I killed a couple of roosters, and I told the kids they might want to go inside so they wouldn't have to watch. Um, nope. Not only did they watch me chop off the chooks' heads, but they also came back to examine and identify all the organs when I cleaned the birds out! My nephew, on the other hand, is a sensitive child. His mother called live chickens chook, and chicken in the form of meat chicken, so that he wouldn't realize it was the same thing. (He's nearly 10 now, so I reckon he's probably figured it out by this time.) Edited September 22, 2012 by Hotdrink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I was assuming that every little kid loved visiting the dog shelter! I guess I forgot that not every family has an animal-mad child who wants to be a vet :lol: :lol: We have so many animals here on the farm, that we haven't needed to visit the shelter. :D My kids love animals, and like yours, they're not sensitive. I strongly doubt Dogs will have any negative effect on my kids. They've even gone with me to drop off a live goat at the processor, then gone with me a couple days later to pick up the meat in neat little packages. They know where their meat comes from. :) None of our current pets have come directly from the shelter though. Our two GSDs came from a GSD rescue group. One dog had been pulled from a shelter and placed into rescue. The other dog was picked up directly by rescue (and taken straight to the vet for surgical removal of BBs :glare:). The cats came from local cat rescue. One sets up shop at a big pet store (they don't sell dogs/cats - they let rescues display cats inside and dogs/cats outside). Since we are usually looking for specific breeds, we end up going through rescue rather than the shelter itself (plus the rescue animals have lived in regular homes, so it's a bit easier to tell what their personality is really like). Breed rescue and cat rescue groups are very common around here. There are even some mixed breed rescue groups (like the one in front of the pet shop mentioned above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritsumei Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 My son knows about euthanizing old, sick pets, because we put down our cat a couple years ago. He still talks about her. But I don't know that this sensitive 6yo would be able to handle the idea of shelters having to kill pets because nobody wants them. Probably it would be OK, as he's run into some other things about this world that are pretty ugly and been OK, but I'm not sure. While he knows where meat comes from, I think that shelter euthanization to solve over-crowding would come as something of a shock to his soft little heart. I'm not in a big hurry to have that conversation, though I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoamiracle Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 My son is 5yrs old and is old enough to do math but has no clue about dogs being euthanized. We do not hide things from our kids, but it has never came up. If it came up we would talk about it, but I really do not see it coming up anytime soon. Both of our dogs are rescued dogs and it still has never came up. Same here. My son is six and whereas both are dogs were strays we took in (and then had puppies together) and he has gone with dh to bring stray cats to the shelter, it has never come up that animals are put to death if they are not wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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