asmall Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 My kids have been bugging me about using calculators with their math. I have always thought they needed to really know their facts before using calculators, but my sister-in-laws kids use calculators all the time with their math, and seem to be doing great in math. What is your opinion on the use of calculators in math? Why would young children be encouraged to use them, are there really benefits to this? AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I let my son use a calculator for the Singapore Challenging Word Problems. It made him feel like he was getting away with something. I did it because I wanted him to focus on the problem solving, not on how awful the computation was going to be. Now that he is in Algebra I, I let him use a calculator. However, I'm also having him do a review of arithmetic with ALEKS, and he's not allowed to use a calculator for that, so he is still getting computation practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in the Country Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I let my dd use her calculator occasionally starting last year when she was studying pre-algebra topics. She is doing Algebra this year and she is technically allowed to use her calculator unless her lesson says otherwise. I don't think she uses it much though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmall Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 I think when kids are older, and they know their math facts using the calculator may be ok sometimes, but my kids are starting 3rd and 6th. Their cousins are in 1st and 2nd, and they use calculators all the time. I just don't understand how giving young children calculators will help them learn math. Is there something I am missing here? AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I think it's a smokescreen for kids who don't really know what they're doing when "doing" math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I think when kids are older, and they know their math facts using the calculator may be ok sometimes, but my kids are starting 3rd and 6th. Their cousins are in 1st and 2nd, and they use calculators all the time. I just don't understand how giving young children calculators will help them learn math. Is there something I am missing here?AL No... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I was not allowed to use a calculator until Algebra I. Even then, all the way through Calculus, we had sections of homework and tests that were done sans calculator. I really understood the math because of that. In college I managed to take a calculus test without my calculator and earn a pretty good grade. 1st and 2nd graders do not and should not be using a calculator. They are doing well in math because they can plug the numbers in a computer. Most likely, they don't really understand what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I didn't allow ds to use a calculator regularly until he was in geometry. I see absolutely *zero* advantage to introducing calculator use in elementary school (except as the very infrequent treat / variety). For occasional use in pre-algebra and algebra 1 it's okay, but still I don't see a reason for daily use. Schools these days seem terrified that if kids don't use "technology" early and often, they won't be able to adapt to its use. But kids seem highly adaptable to technology use. ;) I'd rather work on math understanding and recall in the early years and let them figure out calculators in middle school / high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Calculator use prevents the student from becoming really familiar with numbers. I see no need to use a calculator prior to computing trigonometric functions, exponents and logariths in algebra 2/pre-calculus, and for numerical computations in physics or chemistry. I see first hand the detrimental effect of being calculator dependent in my students. They can't simplify fractions, they don't see perfect squares, they have no feeling for relationships between numbers. Calculators are not allowed in our physics and calculus classes at the university. ETA: I am completely against calculator use in algebra 1, because many of the skills the student practices need to be translated to problems where there are no numbers at all. A student who is accustomed to using a calculator to solve quadratic equations, or systems of linear equations, with numbers will be lost when the quadratic equation or the system has only symbols - because then, a calculator is useless. Edited September 28, 2011 by regentrude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I never let my daughter use a calculator for her lessons but she thinks it's fun & cool to use one so when she started multi-digit my multi-digit multiplication I started letting her use a calculator to check her answers when she's done with the whole page. She actually likes to "race" to see which one of us can type in the problem & get the answer first. If anything is incorrect we go back to working it out on paper. I don't think it's crossed her mind yet to use it instead of working the problem...she thinks the purpose of the calculator is to check her work.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I let DS use calculator when he calculate the mean. With 10-12 numbers to add together, it getting a little annoying. that was the only topic I will allow calculator .. to get the sum of of the total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I am completely against calculator use in algebra 1, because many of the skills the student practices need to be translated to problems where there are no numbers at all. A student who is accustomed to using a calculator to solve quadratic equations, or systems of linear equations, with numbers will be lost when the quadratic equation or the system has only symbols - because then, a calculator is useless. I guess we are talking about different sorts of calculator use. I'm letting my son use a simple four function calculator--so it's just helpful for basic arithmetic. He still has to do the rest by hand (or brain). What's funny is that he's all excited about being allowed to use the calculator, but really, there is very little he needs to use it for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 If they'd let me use a calculator in algebra I, I never would have learned my multiplication tables. Seriously. My kids won't get them for regular use until after geometry. I tutor in a free afterschool program and the other day, I had some 3rd and 4th graders doing math homework, adding and subtracting 3 and 4 digit numbers (among other things, it was obviously an extremely spiral math program). I didn't have time to do the calculations in my head to check all the kids, so I did most of them on my phone. One of them was obviously not right, but the girl refused to trust that any answer not gotten on the calculator had any validity. I think it's gotten to the point where kids don't trust that you can even really do math without a calculator. Oy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 No way are my girls getting calculators anytime soon. I think it's a terribly bad idea to give elementary students calculators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I guess we are talking about different sorts of calculator use. I'm letting my son use a simple four function calculator--so it's just helpful for basic arithmetic. He still has to do the rest by hand (or brain).. No, I am talking about a simple calculator as you can buy for $8 at Walmart. I notice that my students have no trouble putting in lots of numbers, for instance when you have solved a quadratic and have to put the stuff under the square root - but if the quantities are not numbers, they freeze and are completely clueless how to simplify their expressions. Manipulating complicated fractions: if there are numbers and they can punch them in, they do fine - if there are symbols, they mess up. They don't see where stuff cancels, where things simplify because you have a perfect square under a square root - they are used to punching in everything. They do not make an estimate of the order of magnitude - calculator does all the powers of ten and they never notice if they mess up. They are not proficient in basic arithmetic anymore because they have been used to doing this with a calculator - but if the same manipulations have to be done with symbols, they are out of practice and make horrible mistakes. From what I see in my college students at a school with focus in science and engineering, the disadvantages of calculator dependency far outweigh any short-term benefits. I would suspect that math skills elsewhere are in even worse state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 No, I am talking about a simple calculator as you can buy for $8 at Walmart. I notice that my students have no trouble putting in lots of numbers, for instance when you have solved a quadratic and have to put the stuff under the square root - but if the quantities are not numbers, they freeze and are completely clueless how to simplify their expressions.Manipulating complicated fractions: if there are numbers and they can punch them in, they do fine - if there are symbols, they mess up. They don't see where stuff cancels, where things simplify because you have a perfect square under a square root - they are used to punching in everything. They do not make an estimate of the order of magnitude - calculator does all the powers of ten and they never notice if they mess up. They are not proficient in basic arithmetic anymore because they have been used to doing this with a calculator - but if the same manipulations have to be done with symbols, they are out of practice and make horrible mistakes. From what I see in my college students at a school with focus in science and engineering, the disadvantages of calculator dependency far outweigh any short-term benefits. I would suspect that math skills elsewhere are in even worse state. I have to say that I think there is reasonable calculator use and then there's whatever it is that produces the types of students you're describing. My older son has been allowed to use a calculator for trivial calculations for several years now and has absolutely no problem manipulating symbols or seeing numerical relationships. He can also perform arithmetic calculations by hand when necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nscribe Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I allowed D to move on into pre-algebra without total automatic recall of multiplication/division facts. When I did, I resolved there would be no use of calculators until she was late into Algebra 1 and only then sparingly. I can say I am very glad I held to that resolution. As she works with chemistry and physics I am allowing it in those settings at times. Number sense, estimation skills, basic application and logic can erode without practice in a manner similar to the way foreign language skills erode when not used consistently over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali in OR Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I taught high school math for 4 years. Kids who were dependent on calculators could not progress very far in algebraic thinking. If you have to reach for a calculator for simple things like dividing both sides of an equation by 3, solving equations becomes a real chore and the kids don't seem to develop the facility or understanding that the number-literate students do. And fractions--it was so frustrating to see kids turn 1/3 into a decimal--very difficult to work with, not exact due to rounding--instead of multiplying both sides of the equation by a common denominator to get rid of the fractions entirely. They go for the slow, clunky, imprecise solution instead of the quick, elegant, exact solution. Around here the public schools require a calculator for third grade. A fellow math teacher friend was telling me that she refused to get one for her daughter and told the 3rd grade teacher that her child would not be using a calculator for third grade math. I loved that. We don't use calculators much here, but there are times when I think they are appropriate. We'll use them for computation-heavy problems in CWP. We use them for some averaging problems, some decimal problems. But I think that making kids do most calculations by hand/brain is what really solidifies math facts and their understanding of numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The math program that we use includes instruction in how to use the calculator. (I am surprised at how you can use a calculator!) We only use it when it is called for in the lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nov05mama Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I never let my daughter use a calculator for her lessons but she thinks it's fun & cool to use one This. He is never allowed to use one for lessons and can't imagine a time when he WILL be allowed, but he loves to play with it and come up with different math problems to 'solve' on the calculator. Usually he's trying to find out what 54,867 x 65,396 is or something along those lines :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The math program that we use includes instruction in how to use the calculator. (I am surprised at how you can use a calculator!) We only use it when it is called for in the lesson. The program uses calculators to show patterns. That use is completely different from the kind of use (for computation) that is being discussed here. Just to add to the discussion, I was not allowed to use a calculator until 11th grade (trignometry and physics). I have had no problems adapting to technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The program uses calculators to show patterns. That use is completely different from the kind of use (for computation) that is being discussed here. Actually, it is used for other things than just showing patterns. It is also used to teach estimation, to check answers and demonstrate various ways that one can get the same answer. I didn't realize that this thread was limited to only one particular use of the calculator. My apologies if my comment was irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poke Salad Annie Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Hmmm, I don't remember even owning a calculator during high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 If they'd let me use a calculator in algebra I, I never would have learned my multiplication tables. Seriously. My kids won't get them for regular use until after geometry. I tutor in a free afterschool program and the other day, I had some 3rd and 4th graders doing math homework, adding and subtracting 3 and 4 digit numbers (among other things, it was obviously an extremely spiral math program). I didn't have time to do the calculations in my head to check all the kids, so I did most of them on my phone. One of them was obviously not right, but the girl refused to trust that any answer not gotten on the calculator had any validity. I think it's gotten to the point where kids don't trust that you can even really do math without a calculator. Oy. So these kids were using calculators with the schools blessing? When I grew up in the 60s we did not have calculators till I was in 9th grade and even then I recall not being allowed to use them:D I remeber ds's 1st grade teacher asking all of the parents to bring in calculators for the kids:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 My daughter will be 11 tomorrow and I don't know if she's ever used a calculator. Maybe I should teach her how to use one and call it a life skill. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 The math program that we use includes instruction in how to use the calculator. (I am surprised at how you can use a calculator!) We only use it when it is called for in the lesson. The math curriculum we use has calculator work in every chapter and in some of the enrichment exercises. It shows the student many ways to use the calculator which introduces them to a tool. Occasionally I will circle some of the problems in a days assignment and let them use the calculator for just those if I know they know how to work them. It adds fun to the work. I do allow calculator use for Algebra and beyond. However, if the problem has fractions the answer must be in fraction form if applicable, no decimals unless this is the exercise. I find the calculator might be used a few times a week but most of the computations can be easily worked out without it. None of my children has shown difficulty when it comes to non number equations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.