How did YOU get obedience?

[*Inna*]

Dangerous advice ;). As a middle schooler I used to read my parents' copy of Dobson's "The Strong Willed Child" to get ideas for how to be more rebellious. :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

[Colleen]

 

Those of you with older kids might consider leaving your parenting books lying around.

I might if I owned any. (Parenting books, that is, not children. Contrary to what my 16 yo might currently contend, I don't attempt to "own" people. Ahem!) I'm not an advice-manual kinda gal. Shortly before my oldest son was born, I cracked open Dr. Spock's book on baby & child care. On the very first page, he advised not to take too seriously, or be too impressed by, what others had to say on the subject of parenting, relying instead on common sense and instinct. I instinctively realized I had no desire or need to read parenting books and left it at that.;):D

 

[Rosie_0801]

Dangerous advice ;). As a middle schooler I used to read my parents' copy of Dobson's "The Strong Willed Child" to get ideas for how to be more rebellious. :lol:

 

I only said "consider" not "you totally must because this is infallible advice." :D

 

Your parents had better books than mine. I only learned that parents worry about illness. Dull, huh?

 

So, what did you learn? :bigear:

 

Rosie

[gardenmom5]

Shortly before my oldest son was born, I cracked open Dr. Spock's book on baby & child care. On the very first page, he advised not to take too seriously, or be too impressed by, what others had to say on the subject of parenting, relying instead on common sense and instinct. I instinctively realized I had no desire or need to read parenting books and left it at that.;):D

 

 

I think I got past the first page, but I ended up tossing the book.

[Ritsumei]

Oh, as if I haven't (and won't) post enough in this thread....

 

I think the grocery store thing is a REALLY good evaluation standard. If you won't use a method in the grocery store, you probably don't need to be using it. I have 7 children, five of whom are 5 and under. I absolutely can discipline in the grocery store (and do). I did today.

 

That's a great point. You're parenting can't be depend on being in the right place. It has to be something you can put into action anytime, anywhere.

 

 

Even if, for the sake of argument, we agree to consider spanking effective, in today's legal climate in the US, it wouldn't be good to make it your only option because it's a sure bet that someone will eventually turn you in to CPS because kids - even very good kids - sometimes have "off" days and need to be disciplined several times in the same grocery trip! Parenting's not a gig for a one-trick pony. :D

[Colleen]

 

I think I got past the first page, but I ended up tossing the book.

I have/had nothing against the book. As I said, it offered me advice that has stood the test of time: Use my common sense and trust my instincts. Since he stated that up front, I took him at his word.:)

 

[Joanne]

Even if, for the sake of argument, we agree to consider spanking effective, in today's legal climate in the US, it wouldn't be good to make it your only option because it's a sure bet that someone will eventually turn you in to CPS because kids - even very good kids - sometimes have "off" days and need to be disciplined several times in the same grocery trip! Parenting's not a gig for a one-trick pony. :D

 

(I am not in favor of spanking)

 

However, CPS is not going to do anything about a spanking. Really. Government institutions (CPS, Dept Human Services, Family Law courts) don't like spanking and will caution against it. But CPS is not going to do anything about a report of spanking.

[Ritsumei]

(I am not in favor of spanking)

 

However, CPS is not going to do anything about a spanking. Really. Government institutions (CPS, Dept Human Services, Family Law courts) don't like spanking and will caution against it. But CPS is not going to do anything about a report of spanking.

 

If the person calling in the tip says, "she spanked her child," you are probably correct. But if that person happens to be one of those folks that are rabidly anti-spanking and can't tell a swat from a beating........ Those are the folks that are likely to call, IMO.

 

My aunt works for CPS; she's a social worker. As it's supposed to function, is a good idea (though it ought to be a dpt in the police). CPS, as it sometimes does function... it's a scary thing when they can come take children first and ask questions later. No, it's not supposed to be that way, but sometimes that's what happens. And yes, I know some kids benefit; I used to work in a residential school for kids dually diagnosed with mental & emotional problems. We had one girl who had to have reconstructive surgery on her genitalia... at something like 6. Another girl, with fetal alcohol syndrome, was pimped out - by her mother. Every child had a 3 inch binder with stories that broke the heart to read. But CPS still gives me the hibee-geebies. They save some, but they destroy others, and ignore some that ought to have been saved. The legal climate here in the US (can't speak to anywhere else) can really be the pits sometimes.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Ritsumei
Unclear punctuation.

[Lily_Grace]

 

Non-spaking books that I love:

Christlike Parenting

Transforming the Difficult Child: the Nurtured Heart Approach

Creative Correction

 

The first two, more than the 3rd, are key to my philosophy of parenting. But the 3rd has some great practical ideas for things to do besides spanking, which, as I said, is important to us for a variety of reasons.

 

For those who have put Creative Correction on their library list, please be aware that this book is extremely controversial when it comes to Christian discipline. It is heavy on humiliation and rewards as ways of correction, coupled with "throwing Scripture" at a child. It is a very well written, persuasive book, but please read it with the picture of your own child in your head going through the "corrections".

[gingersmom]

Wow, this board just cannot help but debate, can it???

:D

 

I was trying to be clear that I am NOT interested in different ideas about discipline, what the goals should be, or what is even possible. Not that these aren't valid discussions, but its not what I'm after.

 

Apparently we are not obedient. I guess we were not spanked often enough as children.

[Annabel Lee]

Well, I'm late to the party, once again. Everybody's already gone home. :( But I have my time zone as an excuse. ;)

 

Actually, I just can't help myself. This is an issue near and dear to my heart. I have grown a passion for shedding light on abusive & just plain mean & harsh parenting methods that often find a safe home in the church. That bothers me because it is contradictory to Christ's model for us, and it casts a negative shadow over Christians as a whole.

 

Joanne, I <3 your GOYBP site. I wish dearly that I had moved in that direction earlier than I did; from the beginning would have been ideal. I want to send a link to all the pastors I know of. They really need to have that, and the books you recommend, in their church libraries as tools to give parents seeking help.

[Annabel Lee]

Dangerous advice ;). As a middle schooler I used to read my parents' copy of Dobson's "The Strong Willed Child" to get ideas for how to be more rebellious. :lol:

 

You too? lol That is too funny!

[Sevilla]

I only said "consider" not "you totally must because this is infallible advice." :D

 

Your parents had better books than mine. I only learned that parents worry about illness. Dull, huh?

 

So, what did you learn? :bigear:

 

Rosie

I didn't get too much out of that book, a lot of it dealt with younger kids. The books I got the most out of were their marriage/relationship books. Those helped me learn details about TeA and about mature adult relationships which I took as my model - I learned a lot about recognizing each person's needs and having good communication which did serve me well as I went through my teenage years :).

[NanceXToo]

Just because I haven't waffled enough on this thread. :rolleyes:

 

Those of you with older kids might consider leaving your parenting books lying around. I used to read the Childcraft Guide for Parents to try and gain insight. That particular book was mostly about childhood diseases, so didn't enlighten me a great deal, but it was worth trying. :lol:

 

Rosie

 

Dangerous advice ;). As a middle schooler I used to read my parents' copy of Dobson's "The Strong Willed Child" to get ideas for how to be more rebellious. :lol:

 

And I still remember certain scenes from an adult/porno novel my mother had on her night table and which I took and read when I was maybe 9 or 10. I got through quite a bit of it that day before she discovered it was missing, took it back, and initiated a well-meaning but embarrassing conversation. Be careful what books you leave lying around lol.

[caedmyn]

Haven't read much of the thread so this has probably gone off in a totally different direction.. I imagine the OP understands that no child is 100% obedient 100% of the time. You always have to work with them. I think it's perfectly acceptable as a parent though to TRAIN your child to obey the first time every time...particularly when they are young. Isn't that what God would like us to do, obey Him the first time every time?

 

I think the keys to achievng that, no matter how you discipline, are consistency, character building, training, and building a relationship with your child. Which is not to say we are there yet, but I'm working on it.

 

Someone I know says, "Rules without relationship breed rebellion." I think that's what some parents experience when they tried to enforce 100% obedience 100% of the time WITHOUT doing the character training necessary to allow the child to understand why obedience is necessary, and how that character trait relates to adult life and pleasing the Lord, and without gradually allowing the child freedom to make mistakes and suffer natural consequences. If they're trained to obey I think it's perfectly fine as they get older for them to (politely) question you at times.

 

If the child doesn't feel loved for themselves (whatever their personal love language is...quality time...physical touch...etc) they aren't going want to obey.

 

And there is no way to achieve a high level of obedience without spending a great deal of time TRAINING the child. Trust me, I've tried!

[asta]

You might want to read the whole thread -- you missed the bit comparing training obedient children to training obedient dogs.

 

Once a thread goes on this long there is inevitably an ick factor buried within.

 

 

A

[Joanne]

And I still remember certain scenes from an adult/porno novel my mother had on her night table and which I took and read when I was maybe 9 or 10. I got through quite a bit of it that day before she discovered it was missing, took it back, and initiated a well-meaning but embarrassing conversation. Be careful what books you leave lying around lol.

 

I read "What You Always Wanted To Know About Sex But Were Afraid To Ask" under similar circumstances.

 

I guess that made me in the AP Sexuality class. I'm probably gifted in that area. :lol:;)

[gardenmom5]

For those who have put Creative Correction on their library list, please be aware that this book is extremely controversial when it comes to Christian discipline. It is heavy on humiliation and rewards as ways of correction, coupled with "throwing Scripture" at a child. ".

 

I don't consider humiliating a child "christian" at all. Christ was pretty blunt about people who harm children, and humiliation harms children's emotional and mental well-being and development.

Edited August 28, 2011 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

Haven't read much of the thread so this has probably gone off in a totally different direction.. I imagine the OP understands that no child is 100% obedient 100% of the time. !

 

It's nice of you to give her the benefit of the doubt, but you really should read all of her posts before expressing that conclusion.

[stripe]

I used to read the Childcraft Guide for Parents to try and gain insight. That particular book was mostly about childhood diseases, so didn't enlighten me a great deal, but it was worth trying. :lol:

 

Rosie

 

My copy talks about cereal for 2 mo olds, better read what it has to say about discipline!

[stripe]

.. I imagine the OP understands that no child is 100% obedient 100% of the time.

 

But she says in her first post that this is exactly what she wants.

[NanceXToo]

It's nice of you to give her the benefit of the doubt, but you really should read all of her posts before expressing that conclusion.

 

But she says in her first post that this is exactly what she wants.

 

She understands it. She just doesn't accept it. That's why she spanks them, and I imagine they get hit an awful lot and/or living in a state of constant, hypersensitive fear. I hope this thread helps put an end to that.

[Ginevra]

Ooorrr... maybe she actually had something to do on a Saturday? Could that be a possibility?;) Although I'm here reading messages throughout the day most of the time, every once in awhile I actually leave my house and *gasp* don't even get a chance to turn the computer on ALL DAY. Crazy, I know.

 

Seriously, though, I think some of you are being a bit harsh on her. She asked for advice and ideas, so don't pick her apart for it. We're not all perfect, you know. :tongue_smilie: This has been a great thread and I enjoyed it very much.

 

If someone begins a thread, it's courteous to have discussion with those who have responded. Also, some topics are obviously, definitely going to get a lot of response.

 

I didn't get the impression that she was asking for ideas and advice. Hopefully, I'm wrong and she's been up all night reading ten books and four websites.

 

ETA: She said this early in the thread:

I was trying to be clear that I am NOT interested in different ideas about discipline, what the goals should be, or what is even possible. Not that these aren't valid discussions, but its not what I'm after.

Doesn't look like someone looking for ideas and advice.

 

It started to seem trollish to me.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Quill
add quote from OP

[stripe]

Well, at least she uses BFSU and MEP.

 

Which, come to think of it, are not what I think of as curricula matching the desire for a top-down approach.

[Laura Corin]

 

Yes, I achieved obedience. I did it by respecting my children & treating them as beings which needed guidance & love, not punishment.

.

 

In addition, I did it by gathering my children into the family with hugs, kisses, talking and reasoning, rather than by pushing them away with punishment.

 

Laura

[8circles]

I didn't get the impression that she was asking for ideas and advice. Hopefully, I'm wrong and she's been up all night reading ten books and four websites.

 

ETA: She said this early in the thread: Doesn't look like someone looking for ideas and advice.

 

It started to seem trollish to me.

 

:iagree:The OP sounds nothing like his/her subsequent posts on the topic.

[Ariston]

Hello everyone,

 

I have just gotten up to speed. I feel that there should be a special achievement I gain on my profile for starting a controversial or long thread. Normally I just post questions like "Is my child ready for AAS?"

 

Although I am ready to let this thread die its slow, painful and natural death, I did want to take a second to thank those who took the time to respond in a helpful way. There were many, many good responses and it will take me a while to think it all through.

 

I wanted to respond to two things, but I will start spinoff threads when I have some more time. 1) is to the person (Sunflower I think was her name?) who asked me about my problems with my permissive mother. The other is in response to WishboneDawn asking for specific discipline problems that I have a hard time responding too...this would be very helpful and I'll ask that on a separate and hopefully less controversy inspiring thread.

 

Though this thread got snide and unpleasant in places, I did get a lot out of it. So I'm grateful for it.

Elena

[Ritsumei]

For those who have put Creative Correction on their library list, please be aware that this book is extremely controversial when it comes to Christian discipline. It is heavy on humiliation and rewards as ways of correction, coupled with "throwing Scripture" at a child. It is a very well written, persuasive book, but please read it with the picture of your own child in your head going through the "corrections".

 

 

I wonder if we're talking about the same book?? It's one I borrowed from a friend a while back & enjoyed, but I don't remember anything about humiliating children in it at all, nor "throwing scripture." It's one I'd like to add to my own library, particularly since that friend moved recently & I can't borrow hers anymore.

 

Shoot, now I really want to re-read and see if I somehow missed something? Perhaps it's in the eye of the beholder? :confused:

[Joanne]

I wonder if we're talking about the same book?? It's one I borrowed from a friend a while back & enjoyed, but I don't remember anything about humiliating children in it at all, nor "throwing scripture." It's one I'd like to add to my own library, particularly since that friend moved recently & I can't borrow hers anymore.

 

Shoot, now I really want to re-read and see if I somehow missed something? Perhaps it's in the eye of the beholder? :confused:

 

I found it icky, punitive and based on the assumption that only punishment works to discipline kids.

 

It was "creative correction" but another title could be "here is a list of ways to punish your kids but not spank them".

[annandatje]

I found it icky, punitive and based on the assumption that only punishment works to discipline kids.

 

It was "creative correction" but another title could be "here is a list of ways to punish your kids but not spank them".

 

If I recall correctly, the book mentioned above advocates putting hot sauce in child's mouth.