So, Let's Talk About the Post Office

[cdrumm4448]

Why have they lost $20B in the last four years? Can't they figure out you don't spend more than you take in? They are expected to receive a bailout this year. How proud they all must be.

[WishboneDawn]

I find that weird. Here, Canada Post has been making a profit for the past 15 years and it faces geographical challenges and the special costs that go along with those the US postal service just doesn't have (at least in the same volume).

 

Perhaps there's less competition here though? That and, thinking about it, those geographical challenges often mean CP has a monopoly where other competitors won't go.

[MBM]

Why have they lost $20B in the last four years? Can't they figure out you don't spend more than you take in? They are expected to receive a bailout this year. How proud they all must be.

 

Weren't you just chastising others for being sarcastic?

Edited August 14, 2011 by MBM
fixed formatting error

[Murmer]

The hardest part is that they want a bailout when they are not even accomplishing their job. When I give them money to mail something they do not have to actually get it to the other person unless I buy extra services like insurance and delivery confirmation. How many other businesses can get away for so many years without actually doing what they say they are going to do.-

[8circles]

I find that weird. Here, Canada Post has been making a profit for the past 15 years and it faces geographical challenges and the special costs that go along with those the US postal service just doesn't have (at least in the same volume).

 

Perhaps there's less competition here though? That and, thinking about it, those geographical challenges often mean CP has a monopoly where other competitors won't go.

 

I'm not knowledgable enough about Canadian Post to know about other things that they are doing right - could be a lot of things. But I do know from canadian friends that they don't have all the services that we get like mail delivery 6 days/week etc.

[bettyandbob]

I don't really excuse this, however

 

1. I believe our postal rates are artificially low and always have been. They are much lower than many other countries. The Postal Service has to ask permission to raise the cost of stamps, etc. I think they know what a stamp should really cost and I think we'd be surprised.

 

2. Competing with electronic services raises costs even more, because they have less mail to move and so cannot benefit from economies of scale. It's really hard to compete and raise rates.

 

I think things would be a little different if we'd always paid the real cost of sending a letter. Most private businesses do not have to ask permission to raise a price. However, the postal service has been told to run themselves like a private business, but not given the authority to completely decide on their rates.

[springmama]

The hardest part is that they want a bailout when they are not even accomplishing their job. When I give them money to mail something they do not have to actually get it to the other person unless I buy extra services like insurance and delivery confirmation. How many other businesses can get away for so many years without actually doing what they say they are going to do.-

 

This has been my complaint for years. If I buy a service or item from any other company and it doesn't perform as expected, I get a refund or replacement. It really annoys me because our city's mail carriers are terribly incompetent. Mailing something to or from our post office is a gamble and I usually just take my packages to the next town's PO to avoid having them get lost. I wish I could choose another postal service for my incoming mail.

[myfatherslily]

Everyone I know, myself included, has chosen to save money by using the internet, whether by sending emails, paying bills online, browsing online catalogs, etc. It doesn't surprise me that they are hurting :/

[Mrs.MacGyver]

- People just aren't using the post office as much anymore. I see FedEx, UPS, etc. drive by my house almost daily, so for packages, there is quite a bit of competition. The internet and email has almost eliminated envelope mail (letters, bill paying...).

 

Now, I live in a rural area, so maybe things are a bit different around here. But, our PO has made drastic cuts, yet they are still delivering the mail 6 days a week and my mail always gets where it needs to go. My mail carrier makes a point to know everyone on her route. She smiles and calls my kids and dogs by name. She asks about Dh when he is deployed. She brings my dogs treats, and if I don't have the postage for something, she will cover it and let me pay later. The very small PO that services my area does not even bat an eyelash at all of the odd requests we make for shipping packages overseas or even for having to process and deliver 70-100 pound equipment boxes for the military guys that live around here.

 

I know there are crappy POs around, and things get lost from time to time, but I agree with the pp who noted that they are expected to run as a private company yet are hamstrung on many things by the government. Perhaps if they were left alone, they could handle things better. I am thankful for their services and would be fine with losing a day or two of delivery if that helps them stay afloat. I just hope they don't start cutting things too drastically and laying off more of the really great people who do work there.

[LidiyaDawn]

Why have they lost $20B

 

I couldn't figure out what the big deal was here because (despite looking back up twice) I kept seeing this as $208 … I think I need to clean my screen. :tongue_smilie:

[CarenM]

I couldn't figure out what the big deal was here because (despite looking back up twice) I kept seeing this as $208 … I think I need to clean my screen. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Thats what I saw too :lol:

 

 

And post offices are being closed all over the place.

[Kathleen in VA]

Maybe this will help clear up the confusion:

 

http://postalemployeenetwork.com/news/2011/08/post-office-makes-a-profit-congress-wont-let-it-keep/

"the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade — an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The more than $5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger."

 

No other private or public agency is required to do this and it is draining the USPS dry.

[CarenM]

Maybe this will help clear up the confusion:

 

http://postalemployeenetwork.com/news/2011/08/post-office-makes-a-profit-congress-wont-let-it-keep/

"the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade — an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The more than $5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger."

 

No other private or public agency is required to do this and it is draining the USPS dry.

 

 

 

:svengo::svengo:

[Kathleen in VA]

:svengo::svengo:

 

Exactly!

[sparrow]

Maybe this will help clear up the confusion:

 

http://postalemployeenetwork.com/news/2011/08/post-office-makes-a-profit-congress-wont-let-it-keep/

"the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade — an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The more than $5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger."

 

No other private or public agency is required to do this and it is draining the USPS dry.

 

 

Wow. I seriously had no idea.

 

I don't have a gripe with the post office. I love ours and the postal workers there.

[Kathleen in VA]

Wow. I seriously had no idea.

 

I don't have a gripe with the post office. I love ours and the postal workers there.

 

 

Most people don't. It's like Congress is purposely trying to do away with the post office. Not sure why.

[Mrs Mungo]

Most people don't. It's like Congress is purposely trying to do away with the post office. Not sure why.

 

It's worth pointing out that this (and other such budget issues) happened shortly before an expected Democratic sweep in Congress. That's why these issues become impossible to discuss without politicizing them. They are highly political issues.

 

eta: Republicans don't currently have a vested interest in fixing something that the growing libertarian factions *do* want to do away with. I believe the OP of this thread is a libertarian?

Edited August 14, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[The Girls' Mom]

Maybe this will help clear up the confusion:

 

http://postalemployeenetwork.com/news/2011/08/post-office-makes-a-profit-congress-wont-let-it-keep/

 

"the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade — an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The more than $5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger."

 

No other private or public agency is required to do this and it is draining the USPS dry.

 

I'm going to show my complete ignorance here...but does this amount figure into our national deficit figure at all? Do PO monies figure into that amount in any way? It's stuff like this that makes me think that it's all a HUGE mess that no one could possibly figure out where all the money goes.

[Guest momk2000]

I have received more damaged packages, magazines, etc... through the USPS over the past few years. You wouldn't believe what our mailman tries to jam into our tiny mailbox! Just recently, he damaged a brand new hardcover book I had ordered by forcing the package into my mailbox! I now always choose UPS or FedEx, when available, even if it means paying more for shipping.

[kalanamak]

Weren't you just chastising others for being sarcastic?

When one does it, it is being direct. When others do it, it is sarcasm.

 

BTW, I absolutely do NOT mean that sarcastically. I believe most people who are sarcastic believe they are being direct, or honest, or "themselves".

[4everHis]

I'm going to show my complete ignorance here...but does this amount figure into our national deficit figure at all? Do PO monies figure into that amount in any way? It's stuff like this that makes me think that it's all a HUGE mess that no one could possibly figure out where all the money goes.

 

If you're ignorant then so am I. I think this is a good question. Anyone know the answer?

[Kathleen in VA]

I'm going to show my complete ignorance here...but does this amount figure into our national deficit figure at all? Do PO monies figure into that amount in any way? It's stuff like this that makes me think that it's all a HUGE mess that no one could possibly figure out where all the money goes.

 

Not at all. No. No. No.

 

The USPS gets NO MONEY from the Federal Governement. NONE!!!!!

 

Their revenue is derived from postage. Plain, simple, postage.

 

Put my edit in the wrong place - Not yelling at you, Apryl - just trying to clarify something that is misunderstood by almost everyone.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Kathleen in VA
ETA: Not yelling at you, Apryl - just trying to clarify something that is very commonly misunderstood by almost everyone.

[Impish]

I'm not knowledgable enough about Canadian Post to know about other things that they are doing right - could be a lot of things. But I do know from canadian friends that they don't have all the services that we get like mail delivery 6 days/week etc.

Perhaps that's part of the reason? Trimming some of the services, like 6 days a week, would be a savings, no?

[kalanamak]

I have received more damaged packages, magazines, etc... through the USPS over the past few years. You wouldn't believe what our mailman tries to jam into our tiny mailbox! Just recently, he damaged a brand new hardcover book I had ordered by forcing the package into my mailbox! I now always choose UPS or FedEx, when available, even if it means paying more for shipping.

 

I liked our last maillady so much, I got her Christmas presents. Actually, aside from one psycho at a well-known dysfunctional tiny branch, I get on with the post office.

 

But I would take, in trade, fewer days and an end to junk. All those grocery flyers, etc, go right in recycling. The decades pass and I've never looked at one.

[Kathleen in VA]

I liked our last maillady so much, I got her Christmas presents. Actually, aside from one psycho at a well-known dysfunctional tiny branch, I get on with the post office.

 

But I would take, in trade, fewer days and an end to junk. All those grocery flyers, etc, go right in recycling. The decades pass and I've never looked at one.

 

This mail is what is keeping the PO alive right now and putting food on my table.

[Mrs Mungo]

Perhaps that's part of the reason? Trimming some of the services, like 6 days a week, would be a savings, no?

 

But, the Post Office does not, *cannot* decide these things on their own. They have to get permission from Congress. Therefore, you *cannot* say that the Post Office has mismanaged *anything*, they don't control anything. They cannot cut hours or services. They cannot cut employees. They cannot close under-performing branches.

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/191766/20110803/post-office-postal-service-usps-mail-congress.htm

[Kathleen in VA]

But, the Post Office does not, *cannot* decide these things on their own. They have to get permission from Congress. Therefore, you *cannot* say that the Post Office has mismanaged *anything*, they don't control anything. They cannot cut hours or services. They cannot cut employees. They cannot close under-performing branches.

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/191766/20110803/post-office-postal-service-usps-mail-congress.htm

 

Precisely!!! They receive no money from the feds - only overbearing, ridiculously idiotic management by same.

[kalanamak]

This mail is what is keeping the PO alive right now and putting food on my table.

 

But it is still such a huge waste. All the time and printing and carrying. I shudder to think about the truckloads of paper made and wasted, with all the (fossil fuel) energy up in smoke, too. The PO as a system of jeep-based advertisement carriers? Can we not do this more efficiently??

 

Oh, and I wanted to add, somewhere, that I REALLY appreciated the mail carrier who brought my mother's mail to her door the last year of her life. It helped keep her independent.

[Kathleen in VA]

But it is still such a huge waste. All the time and printing and carrying. I shudder to think about the truckloads of paper made and wasted, with all the (fossil fuel) energy up in smoke, too. The PO as a system of jeep-based advertisement carriers? Can we not do this more efficiently??

 

Oh, and I wanted to add, somewhere, that I REALLY appreciated the mail carrier who brought my mother's mail to her door the last year of her life. It helped keep her independent.

 

Well, it's not the post office that's wasting the paper, etc. - the companies that are advertising do that. Please don't blame the po for that!!!

 

As to your question. Absolutely. Most assuredly. Just get the feds out and see what happens.

[4everHis]

Not at all. No. No. No.

 

The USPS gets NO MONEY from the Federal Governement. NONE!!!!!

 

Their revenue is derived from postage. Plain, simple, postage.

 

Put my edit in the wrong place - Not yelling at you, Apryl - just trying to clarify something that is misunderstood by almost everyone.

 

OK. . . then how in the world can the gov force them to pre-pay pensions and what role does the gov play in their 'business' dealings. I plead total ignorance since I've thought United States Postal Service meant the gov somehow supported/funded the USPS. I also agree with the thought that maybe they should deliver only 5 days a week. Would that somehow 'hurt' their income?

Edited August 14, 2011 by connib
see someone has already answered my questions.

[chepyl]

I just sent my first EDDM (every door direct mailing) for my business. This used to bee a very complicated task, the post office has recently simplified it. It gets a business delivery saturation without a mailing list. We made deliveries to two post offices and they had no idea how to process my bundles. They had not paid attention to the training because they did not think anyone would do it! I assumed this was a way they had come up with to bring in more business, why would they not properly train their employees.

[kalanamak]

Well, it's not the post office that's wasting the paper, etc. - the companies that are advertising do that. Please don't blame the po for that!!!

 

As to your question. Absolutely. Most assuredly. Just get the feds out and see what happens.

 

I am certainly not blaming the po for that. I just wish human nature was different, and that all the millions of people like me (and I ask .... most people do not look at those grocery flyers) would rise up and REFUSE them, would contact the companies and chastise them. When I do business with someone on the internet and THEN get junk mail, I call them and let them know! I go paperless for a reason. If I have to print out things I used to get in the mail, e.g. bank statements, as least give me payback in the form of losing 6 handfuls a week of junk that goes straight into recycling without a glance, and for 30 years, now.

[Daisy]

Wow. I'm learning a ton here. I knew they had all these obnoxious oversight but I had no idea they received no government funds. Unreal.

 

I've always had positive experiences with the employees of the post office (even when items have been lost or damaged). Our field trips have been wonderful, but it is plain that much of their equipment is in the stone age and the volume through our local processing center is more than they can reasonably deal with. It all makes a lot more sense now.

 

As a side note, I'd happily give up Saturday mail. It drives me nuts to receive something on a Saturday and not be able to deal with it until the next business day.

[Kathleen in VA]

OK. . . then how in the world can the gov force them to pre-pay pensions and what role does the gov play in their 'business' dealings. I plead total ignorance since I've thought United States Postal Service meant the gov somehow supported/funded the USPS. I also agree with the thought that maybe they should deliver only 5 days a week. Would that somehow 'hurt' their income?

 

Well, I am not that familiar with the history of the PO. I know that at one time they were a government agency. That changed in the 70s - under Carter I believe. They no longer were funded by the US govt but were still regulated by them. I think the reason they are kept under the control of the feds has to do with security although I am not sure about that.

 

Going to five days a week would not hurt the bottom line. The problem is that most people think (people in charge) that skipping Saturday delivery is the answer since many businesses are not open on Sat. Most letter carriers know that's insane. Although there is no delivery on Sundays, the mail still moves through the system. Monday mail is usually very high volume compared to other days because of that. If there is a Monday holiday, that transfers to even more mail on Tuesday. That means that if the mail was not delivered on Sat. there would be an even bigger pile of mail waiting at the po for the carriers to deliver on Mon or Tue. They have to sort all that before they take it on the street. It's a nutsy idea.

 

It would be smarter to do away with Wed. or Thurs. delivery to even things out, but I can't imagine businesses would be crazy about that idea.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Kathleen in VA
fixed my grammar, hopefully.

[unsinkable]

Well, I am not that familiar with the history of the PO. I know that at one time they were a government agency. That changed in the 70s - under Carter I believe. They no longer were funded by the US govt but were still regulated by them. I think the reason they are kept under the control of the feds has to do with security although I am not sure about that.

 

Going to five days a week would not hurt the bottom line. The problem is that most people think (people in charge) that skipping Saturday delivery is the answer since many businesses are not open on Sat. Most letter carriers know that's insane. Although there is no delivery on Sundays, the mail still moves through the system. Monday mail is usually very high volume compared to other days because of that. If there is a Monday holiday, that transfers to even more mail on Tuesday. That means that if the mail was not delivered on Sat. there would be an even more pile of mail waiting at the po for the carriers to deliver on Mon or Tue. They have to sort all that before they take it on the street. It's a nutsy idea.

 

It would be smarter to do away with Wed. or Thurs. delivery to even things out, but I can't imagine businesses would be crazy about that idea.

 

And by smarter you mean what?

[Daisy]

Well, I am not that familiar with the history of the PO. I know that at one time they were a government agency. That changed in the 70s - under Carter I believe. They no longer were funded by the US govt but were still regulated by them. I think the reason they are kept under the control of the feds has to do with security although I am not sure about that.

 

Going to five days a week would not hurt the bottom line. The problem is that most people think (people in charge) that skipping Saturday delivery is the answer since many businesses are not open on Sat. Most letter carriers know that's insane. Although there is no delivery on Sundays, the mail still moves through the system. Monday mail is usually very high volume compared to other days because of that. If there is a Monday holiday, that transfers to even more mail on Tuesday. That means that if the mail was not delivered on Sat. there would be an even more pile of mail waiting at the po for the carriers to deliver on Mon or Tue. They have to sort all that before they take it on the street. It's a nutsy idea.

 

It would be smarter to do away with Wed. or Thurs. delivery to even things out, but I can't imagine businesses would be crazy about that idea.

 

Our local processing center (processes mail for millions of people) trucks all of our Saturday mail 2 hours south on Saturdays, processes it there, and trucks it back for Monday delivery. That seems like a HUGE waste of money to me. All they told me is that it is cheaper than staffing our processing center on Saturdays.

 

So there may be some benefit (at least in some areas) to doing away with Saturday mail delivery.

[Mrs Mungo]

And by smarter you mean what?

 

She explained what she meant. There is already a heavy load on Monday/Tuesday because they are closed on Sunday. Closing on Saturdays would increase that burden. Closing on Wednesday or Thursday would help even out the load.

[Kathleen in VA]

I just sent my first EDDM (every door direct mailing) for my business. This used to bee a very complicated task, the post office has recently simplified it. It gets a business delivery saturation without a mailing list. We made deliveries to two post offices and they had no idea how to process my bundles. They had not paid attention to the training because they did not think anyone would do it! I assumed this was a way they had come up with to bring in more business, why would they not properly train their employees.

 

Training varies by locality. Yours is an excellent question, however.

[unsinkable]

She explained what she meant. There is already a heavy load on Monday/Tuesday because they are closed on Sunday. Closing on Saturdays would increase that burden. Closing on Wednesday or Thursday would help even out the load.

 

I can't ask a question?

[The Girls' Mom]

Thanks for the explanations Kathleen. I confess that I know very little about the operation of the PO, and I too am very surprised that there isn't any government funding.

[kalanamak]

She explained what she meant. There is already a heavy load on Monday/Tuesday because they are closed on Sunday. Closing on Saturdays would increase that burden. Closing on Wednesday or Thursday would help even out the load.

 

I thought, back when they were kicking around dropping delivery to 4 days a week in 2008 or 2009, "they" claimed Saturday and Tuesday were their low volume days.

[Kathleen in VA]

Our local processing center (processes mail for millions of people) trucks all of our Saturday mail 2 hours south on Saturdays, processes it there, and trucks it back for Monday delivery. That seems like a HUGE waste of money to me. All they told me is that it is cheaper than staffing our processing center on Saturdays.

 

So there may be some benefit (at least in some areas) to doing away with Saturday mail delivery.

 

I agree with you as far as the waste is concerned. Not sure about doing away with Sats. I'm not sure what kind of processing it receives on Sats. (putting on those barcode stickers, maybe), but no doubt, whatever they are doing is federally mandated.

[kalanamak]

Thanks for the explanations Kathleen.

 

Yes, Kathleen is our Go To girl for the P.O. :D

[Kathleen in VA]

I thought, back when they were kicking around dropping delivery to 4 days a week in 2008 or 2009, "they" claimed Saturday and Tuesday were their low volume days.

 

This may be - not sure. We live in a relatively high volume mail area (DC suburb) so don't really notice national trends and I didn't keep up with the po news back then. Still, my dh, who is a letter carrier, thinks dropping Sat delivery has the potential to create a huge bottle neck - especially after holidays.

[Mynyel]

Wow. I'm learning a ton here. I knew they had all these obnoxious oversight but I had no idea they received no government funds. Unreal.

 

I've always had positive experiences with the employees of the post office (even when items have been lost or damaged). Our field trips have been wonderful, but it is plain that much of their equipment is in the stone age and the volume through our local processing center is more than they can reasonably deal with. It all makes a lot more sense now.

 

As a side note, I'd happily give up Saturday mail. It drives me nuts to receive something on a Saturday and not be able to deal with it until the next business day.

 

:iagree: And Friday too. If I get something Friday evening then I have to wait two days!

[kalanamak]

Training varies by locality. Yours is an excellent question, however.

 

I know someone who worked in his local po for a long time, and then retrained to fix heating systems in post offices. He said the local "flavor" in each office varies more than you would imagine.

[Vida Winter]

Our small town already has no service on Saturday, and limited hours during the rest of the week. They also have a limited delivery area - we are 10 mins from town and we do not receive home delivery. If the PO makes drastic cutbacks I doubt that we would notice anything different.

 

Other even smaller surrounding towns are on the "potential shutdown" list and those residents would have to drive about 25 miles to the nearest PO.

[unsinkable]

I guess I'm not worthy of an answer.

 

It's always nice to start a Sunday with a popular girl smackdown.

[LidiyaDawn]

Mail delivery on Saturday seems so strange to me… it's the weekend! You get flyers (delivered by the newspaper boy/girl) on Saturdays, not mail. :tongue_smilie:

[Kathleen in VA]

Our small town already has no service on Saturday, and limited hours during the rest of the week. They also have a limited delivery area - we are 10 mins from town and we do not receive home delivery. If the PO makes drastic cutbacks I doubt that we would notice anything different.

 

Other even smaller surrounding towns are on the "potential shutdown" list and those residents would have to drive about 25 miles to the nearest PO.

 

It's important to realize that there are two kinds of mail delivery in the US - city and rural. Each has its own rules, union, etc. Rural carriers are private contractors - not actual postal employees. I'm thinking, Dana, that you are affected by that since you live so far out. I really don't know how though. I just know that they are different entities in a sense and run their outfits differently.

 

I live in a rural area as well. We have a teeny tiny post office nearby (what a gift!!) and I am always worried that they will shut it down since it certainly does not process a high volume of mail. They do not offer delivery - just po boxes. Our delivered mail comes from a post office 30 minutes away so if I get one of those little yellow slips about a package I have to drive into town to fetch it - UGH!!