sassyscrapperinid Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Can you afford to pay for a ticket to put this kid on an airplane home so the rest of the travelers can enjoy their trip? More ideal would be for you or DH to fly out to them, pick up said kid and escort him home. :iagree:Totally. If this is possible, its what I would do. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yes, your friend is handling it very well. But she is not his parent. You and your dh are. You need to step up to the plate, get him home by whatever means, and deal with the problem. Your son needs to know that you take this seriously. He needs the help he can get at home through counseling. And he needs to know that you can't do what he did and continue to enjoy a nice vacation. :iagree:because if you don't, you are helping him to see and use loopholes in life. If he isn't forced into change by his parents via as natural of consequences as possible, you are right - he will learn some much harder lessons, like prison and everything that comes with that. If one gets away with small scale crimes, they will naturally believe they can get away with larger scale. It is human nature. You will find his future, even if his course doesn't change, much easier on yourselves if you send him the message NOW. Another pp said send him home by bus - I agree, unless it would give him too much leeway and unsupervised time. In that case, he needs an escort: a parent. Many :grouphug:. I've lived through this with a loved one who went to prison and endured horrific unspeakables there. When I looked back on the years leading up to prison life, I could see where she found every loophole in life and took it. . . until she couldn't any longer. Thankfully something finally cured her, but ohhhh the price she and we all paid. Again, :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think one part of the problem with seeking counseling is that there is a social stigma about it, and people are afraid others will see them in a less than flattering light if they seek counseling. It SHOULD be the opposite -- that seeking counseling is a sign of concern and a desire and action toward a healthy family. Mental health gets an undeservedly bad rep in our culture. It just shouldn't be that way. When someone breaks a limb or gets cancer, we don't frown at them and judge them for seeing a physician to get a cast or chemo. Yes, yes, yes. These boards have been a very good microcosm of "the real world" and the views on counseling...that therapists are out to "change your religion", "give you meds", "take away your freedom of choice", "turn you into CPS", etc. Therapy/counseling is thought of as a last ditch effort when all else fails. There are some very real and sad misconceptions about what counseling is and is not. I've thought about starting a thread regarding this issue (Joanne and I could help clarify from the professional's viewpoint. We have somewhat different educational backgrounds but have arrived at largely the same place professionally, so we would bring different things to the discussion). I encounter the same misconptions IRL. Just this Sunday a friend at church asked for a referral to a therapist but wanted one outside the small town she lives in because she didn't want everyone to know her business. Well, therapists are bound by confidentiality so no one would know your business, small town or large. This is someone whom I thought "should know better", but she didn't. Not every therapist is a competent one. Not every therapist is a good fit for you or your issues, even if he/she is a competent therapist. I've been around the block with a few therapists who were not practicing as they should have. Fortunately, no harm was done, but no help was given, either. Most of the therapists I know, including myself, are practicing gently, kindly and compently. We take our license and the ethics attached to them very seriously. (Getting down from my soapbox and looking for Joanne now...) OP, sorry about the hijack. I have difficulty staying on topic.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Has anyone heard from the OP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessieC Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I agree with what people said about the plane ticket and finding a family therapist. As far as punishment, have you considered letting him come up with his own punishment? It was his crime, so maybe the weight should be on him to figure out how to make amends. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I encounter the same misconptions IRL. Just this Sunday a friend at church asked for a referral to a therapist but wanted one outside the small town she lives in because she didn't want everyone to know her business. Well, therapists are bound by confidentiality ...[snip] Not every therapist is a competent one. Maybe that's what your friend is worried about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 You have a good friend (s) in the family he is traveling with and I suspect he WILL listen to them maybe more than his own family. The dad coming down on him was a blessing, as you said, and your ds just might be in a listening mode now and learn a few things along the way like how to make restitution and how hurt this makes people. ...I vote to let them mold him a little more. Again, these are wonderful people, your friends! My first reaction was that the boy should be brought home immediately. However, I think OLG is spot on with her recommendation to let it play out. The OP has said in another post that her friends are willing to keep the boy with them, and I think that is probably a good idea. With some personality types (usually diagnosable ones), authoritarian type parenting will cause them to turn it around, get angry at the authority figures and stay entrenched in the anger, justifying it in their mind. For example, there is a very real possibility that the Dad mentioned in the OP might have reacted in a way that causes the "re-writing" of the child. I agree with Joanne that the OP's friends may be able to get the boy's attention although the parents have been unable to do so. The OP has acknowledged that her dc respond well to the parents in the other family: I trust my friend completely and after talking with her this morning feel she is handling the situation very well. She has asked me to reconsider sending my ds home, to let them finish out the trip as planned. ...From what my friend says things have gone extremely well 99% of the trip. Yes, there were times of pouting and self-centeredness which she dealt with. I'm thankful that she of all people has seen these behaviors in my dc because I trust her wisdom and my dc adore her and respond to her well. I feel my dc (especially my girls) needed someone outside of myself/dh to see what they do and address it. The problems within the OP's home run much deeper than a rebellious teenager: ...I always felt frustrated and even angry that no one else "saw" my dc for who they are and now someone has, and it isn't pretty. My struggle now is wondering if we should have had dc at all. Isn't that horrible?? I look at the ones coming up in the line and I want to cry because everything we do, all the time we pour into these kids, the things we do for them...is it worth it, really? I have a 15yod who makes an issue out of every single thing, a 14yos who steals and arrogantly views the world, an almost 13yod who is self-righteous and challenges everyone...is this really worth it?? I am feeling doubts like I never have before and the thoughts/feelings inside me are so sad. :( No, what I'm feeling is despair, that there is no point in trying to do what we have been - talking and having fellowship with our kids, pouring our time and energy into them - because in the end they make their choices regardless of what we do. I believe that like the OP herself, her son is crying out for help. He's just doing it an a different way. There are some kids for whom frequent strong punishments simply drive them to put up a wall. They pretend they don't care, they get arrogant. When things happen where those strong punishments are deserved then they are less effective because the kid already has a defense against them. :iagree: What the parents have been doing--taking away privileges, etc--is NOT working. What about you (op)? You mentioned that you felt despair, didn't know if you ever should have had children, don't see the point in pouring time and resources into your dc ... not to mention that you have other children to care for and you are pregnant with twins. Honestly, my first thought was to yank that kid home. No way does he deserve a vacation! However, it might be more beneficial for you to take this time while he's still gone to get some help for yourself and perspective on the situation. Not only do you need to get yourself on solid ground, but you also need to research options for how to deal with this once he does get home. Other posters have mentioned police programs, therapy, etc., but it will take time to search out resources and providers in your area. :iagree: Counseling is in order for the entire family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Maybe that's what your friend is worried about! My friend truly had a misconception that any therapist would discuss her personal business freely with people in the community. I wonder how many people would agree that there are some incompetent medical doctors? Does no one go to a medical doctor if they need help because a few are incompetent? It is the same principle. There are red flags to determine if a medical doctor and/or a therapist is practicing ethically and is a good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 My friend truly had a misconception that any therapist would discuss her personal business freely with people in the community. I know for some people in small towns, it's not so much the worry that the therapist will talk, but that people will know that you are seeing a therapist. It's pretty difficult to hide in a small town. All it takes is for one person to see you walk in the building or see your car in the parking lot, and the whole town knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 For me this would be an immediate Return Home thing. But, if he's had these types of behavior problems before, WHY is he going on a 6-week trip with another family? I can't imagine sending ANY of my children on a 6-week trip with anybody, actually, not even my own extended family. What is the meaning of that plan? I actually think ALL your kids should come home, due to the stress of the situation, and I wouldn't be worrying about what anyone was going to miss in week 6 when the trip was cut short. So sorry this is happening, but this is for you to deal with, not the other family! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I trust my friend completely and after talking with her this morning feel she is handling the situation very well. She has asked me to reconsider sending my ds home, to let them finish out the trip as planned. I don't know what to do... I would need to send a strong message and so I would NOT consider allowing him to continue on a trip he has ruined. I'd like to think about the message that would send: "We have seriously considered stopping the trip for you as a consequence because your behaviour was so incredibly unacceptable." Pause. :crickets: "On second thought, never mind, go about the trip as planned, we'll pretend nothing happened and deal with it when you get home after enjoying the rest of the trip." No, mama, I don't think that's a great idea, though I certainly would appreciate the willingness of my friend to delay the issue and deal with it later, something SO appalling should be dealt with immediately and resolutely. And from hence forth, a child who has not earned the right to be trusted out of your sight, should not be out of your sight. Ever. Until such a point has been reached that you can trust him again... In months or years, not days or weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I know for some people in small towns, it's not so much the worry that the therapist will talk, but that people will know that you are seeing a therapist. It's pretty difficult to hide in a small town. All it takes is for one person to see you walk in the building or see your car in the parking lot, and the whole town knows. That may be at the root of many small town folk's fears. The counseling center is located at a church which has many programs, including a mother's day out one. People come and go all the time from the same parking lot as the counseling center. If it were more separate, this might be a realistic fear. However, that gets back to a point Audrey made which I agree with - that there is intrinsic shame in seeking counseling. No one would park across the street at McDonalds and sneak into the office of a doctor for fear that someone would find out they were seeking out medical advice/treatment. Mental health issues seem to fall into a different category, and I wish this were not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Mental health issues seem to fall into a different category, and I wish this were not the case. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I keep thinking this over. If it were my son, if he had issues that I didn't feel I could help with and this other family was willing to take him on, maybe it WOULD be the right thing to leave him. Maybe there's something hey could do from their different perspective that I couldn't and advice they could offer when they got back. I'm now really wavering on whether the boy should come home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think there is a little confusion here....this is not another family that was going on a vacation and invited the OP's son along. If i read a previous thread correctly, the OP wanted her 3 older children to experience a road trip and so she asked a single woman with one child of her own to take them, and so she contributed to gas and food money, planning, etc. So its an unusual situation to begin with. There is no Dad to be the authority on the road (as a pp alluded to), no one other than this woman to handle the 3 misbehaving children for 8 weeks on the road. If the OP doesn't fly the thief home, I wouldn't be surprised if the trip is cut short for everyone. It just sounds like a complete nightmare to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I know for some people in small towns, it's not so much the worry that the therapist will talk, but that people will know that you are seeing a therapist. It's pretty difficult to hide in a small town. All it takes is for one person to see you walk in the building or see your car in the parking lot, and the whole town knows. Everyone is going to know anyway. How long before he does this with a friend? He's going to get a reputation very soon. It is going to effect all of you. Again, I speak from experience. My sister, who has borderline personality disorder and prob bi-polar, was a terrible thief. She took from families she babysat for, she stole from her friends, and engaged in some minor shoplifting. She also stole from her family. When she was in 7th grade, she forged my name and withdrew 200$ from my bank account. She stole 700$ cash from my ailing grandfather when she was maybe 14. She stole lots of little things, perfume, books, knick-nacks, minor items of clothing, coffee mugs, makeup, toys. Do you really think no one knew? Everyone knew. My mom's friends stopped having us over. I know for a fact that two families told her that my sister was no longer welcome in their house because my sister stole. Everyone else was welcome, just not her. My mom was just sort of hopeless on the matter. It paralyzed her and she was too ashamed to get my sister help. By the time it became clear my sister was out of control, well..she was out of control. Not much could be done at that point. He needs help. You all need help. I think that people are much more forgiving if they know someone has a problem and their family is dealing with it. The same people who whisper about his getting therapy will be much less forgiving if you are seeming to ignore what is staring you in the face. You can't beat it out of him. You can make it go underground for a while but if he has a problem it will out. Better and kinder to get him help now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLVD Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 That may be at the root of many small town folk's fears. The counseling center is located at a church which has many programs, including a mother's day out one. People come and go all the time from the same parking lot as the counseling center. If it were more separate, this might be a realistic fear. However, that gets back to a point Audrey made which I agree with - that there is intrinsic shame in seeking counseling. No one would park across the street at McDonalds and sneak into the office of a doctor for fear that someone would find out they were seeking out medical advice/treatment. Mental health issues seem to fall into a different category, and I wish this were not the case. :iagree: I don't live in a small town so I haven't experienced it to that degree. I have Bipolar disorder and I'm in DBT therapy and see a psychiatrist regularly. The stigma can be tough. I wish it was seen as just another medical condition. As as aside, I have nothing but respect for people in the field. My therapist has changed my life and my psych doctor has kept me able to function. Although it can be uncomfortable for me, I'm very very open about it, here on forums and IRL. I feel like it's one of the ways to break the stigma. I'm just like anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Everyone is going to know anyway. How long before he does this with a friend? He's going to get a reputation very soon. It is going to effect all of you. As I understood, Perry was addressing these comments to an offshoot comment I made on people's reluctance to seek out therapy, not to the OP. Just wanted to clarify...not that Perry couldn't do that herself, but I didn't want to see this become a focus of the thread when I believe you may have (understandably) misunderstood the original intent. I haven't heard the OP chime in on whether or not she is open to family therapy. I'm sure she is busy dealing with the situation at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't live in a small town so I haven't experienced it to that degree. I have Bipolar disorder and I'm in DBT therapy and see a psychiatrist regularly. The stigma can be tough. I wish it was seen as just another medical condition. As as aside, I have nothing but respect for people in the field. My therapist has changed my life and my psych doctor has kept me able to function. Although it can be uncomfortable for me, I'm very very open about it, here on forums and IRL. I feel like it's one of the ways to break the stigma. I'm just like anyone else. Thank you for sharing this. Ironically, as you well know, Bipolar is "another medical condition" with a true neurological cause which is often genetic. So many people suffer in silence. I will stand with you as someone who not only is a therapist but also someone who has sought out (repeatedly) therapy/counseling for myself, my marriage and two of my children. I am grateful that these services exist. There is no shame in seeking help. There is strength in doing so. <getting off soapbox and:auto: now...;)> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I know for some people in small towns, it's not so much the worry that the therapist will talk, but that people will know that you are seeing a therapist. It's pretty difficult to hide in a small town. All it takes is for one person to see you walk in the building or see your car in the parking lot, and the whole town knows. This is true, but it still goes back to the undeserved judgment on mental health care. In my small town, everything is fodder for gossip, right down to the number of bowel movements you may or may not have had today. :001_rolleyes: But, when it comes to mental health issues, I find that those who are upfront and unashamed of their mental health care themselves are least likely to be victims of the gossip ghouls. It's when a person is ashamed, that it brings out the worst judgments from others. The ghouls always go for the weak spots quickest. :001_rolleyes: It shouldn't be either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 :iagree: Disclaimer: I am not an advocate of passive/permissive parenting. With some personality types (usually diagnosable ones), authoritarian type parenting will cause them to turn it around, get angry at the authority figures and stay entrenched in the anger, justifying it in their mind. For example, there is a very real possibility that the Dad mentioned in the OP might have reacted in a way that causes the "re-writing" of the child. That's why I suggest counseling and an evalution, so the OP knows if she is dealing with something "more" than exaggerated adolescence, screen/gaming addiction, or something more. :iagree: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:If I could give you a thousand I would. A few months ago I had a very eye opening experience with my ds. Within a week he had caused serious bodily harm to himself 3x's and cost of thousands of dollars in medical and restoration (of broken property) expenses. We had tried so many different parenting approaches (and not willy nilly, but with counseling and for extended periods of time) I just thought he was strong-willed, but after that final week I was scared! I was scared he was going to cause grave harm to himself. I took him into the Dr. to have him assessed. I walked away with a working diagnoses, a script, some resources...and a deep sadness. Why didn't I deal with this earlier? There had been signs I just didn't want to see. :glare: The first few days on the meds were like a whole new kid...or more like getting him back. Recently, we just went thru a 2 day gap in prescription refill. The first day was fine and I again began to doubt his need for the script. The second day was hell. Talk to someone. Get outside opinions. You may not realize all the signs, because you have been hugging the elephant. Also, these things feed off each other with varying consequences in other children. Once ds was on a path towards healthy (for him) functioning, I began to see how much my other kids had either gotten away with or had missed out on because I was so distracted by the sqeaky wheel. Good thoughts for your family! PS. This is a child who does not respond to authoritarian/authortative parenting. I have to deliberatly create enviroments where it is safe to confess misdeeds without consequence (parent directed). As he realizes that being honest does not create the drama he fears...he tells me the truth with more regularity. I should note that if the issue involves others, there is still natural consequences but from me he only gets acceptance/acknowledgment/and uninterrupted relationship. Basically, I do not punish him with withholding relationship from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 As another poster mentioned and depending on how long the rest of the trip is, I might let him finished so I could find the counselor and start a couple sessions with dh and myself first. Yes, it may seem a reward, but you have to be realistic with the energy you have. I have been pregnant with twins and I would be very tempted to take this time to compose myself, research, and begin my own healing/new parenting skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Everyone is going to know anyway. As I understood, Perry was addressing these comments to an offshoot comment I made on people's reluctance to seek out therapy, not to the OP. Just wanted to clarify...not that Perry couldn't do that herself, but I didn't want to see this become a focus of the thread when I believe you may have (understandably) misunderstood the original intent. Yes, thanks. I was only commenting on this: Originally Posted by texasmama My friend truly had a misconception that any therapist would discuss her personal business freely with people in the community. not the OP's situation. This is true, but it still goes back to the undeserved judgment on mental health care. In my small town, everything is fodder for gossip, right down to the number of bowel movements you may or may not have had today. :001_rolleyes: But, when it comes to mental health issues, I find that those who are upfront and unashamed of their mental health care themselves are least likely to be victims of the gossip ghouls. It's when a person is ashamed, that it brings out the worst judgments from others. The ghouls always go for the weak spots quickest. :001_rolleyes: It shouldn't be either way. Oh, I agree it shouldn't be that way. But knowing how people gossip, I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting to keep that information, or anything else related to their health, private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh, I agree it shouldn't be that way. But knowing how people gossip, I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting to keep that information, or anything else related to their health, private. :iagree: And, I do understand why people want to keep things private. I know I sure do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed4life Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 So, what was the final outcome? How is ds doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMe Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Can you afford to pay for a ticket to put this kid on an airplane home so the rest of the travelers can enjoy their trip? More ideal would be for you or DH to fly out to them, pick up said kid and escort him home. This would be my first choice as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 So, what was the final outcome? How is ds doing? She might not be checking in much - her babies are in the NICU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed4life Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I will be praying for the family!:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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