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I hate food for making me fat. I love to eat food - not to gorge myself but to sit down and enjoy (what seems to me) to be a decent plate of healthy food with pleasing taste and texture. But I did a calorie check yesterday and saw that my calories have crept up again, explaining why my weight is creeping up again. So today - I seriously am trying to limit my calorie intake to 300 calories per meal (5 meals total). I'm not sated. And yes, I've had some fat and some protein at each meal.

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That's pretty much me too. Even on WW, I just had a feeling of hunger all the time. I would have a big salad with dinner along with meat and veggies, but feel really hungry an hour later. I survived with string cheese, yogurt, and extra sleep (can't eat when I'm sleeping). I've been really trying to get back into portion control but I'm not there mentally. I sit around and feel sorry for myself that I have to stay hungry all the time to lose weight.

 

Drinking water to feel full only works to prevent me from feeling hungry. If I'm already hungry, it just makes things worse. And because it goes through me very quickly, I have to drink at least some water every half hour to stave off the hunger feelings. But I always forget and I get to feeling hungry which leads me back to the beginning of the cycle that when I'm actually hungry, water doesn't help me.

 

The bad thing about losing weight is that I was only successful doing it when I was depressed. Like I said above, I often slept more than usual. Now that I'm being medically treated, I don't sleep as much. In fact, I have to take a sleeping pill if I want to go to sleep because I don't like sleeping. Wow, I've never thought that out until now. That's a weird situation. I wonder what my doctor would say to that? I can blame my weight on feeling happy instead of depressed. :tongue_smilie:

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I feel your pain, Jean! About a month ago, I started attending Overeaters Anonymous. I'm tired of the compulsions and just want to have a healthy relationship with food. I'm tired of diets and have recognized a need to change my thinking about food and to constantly ask God for help.

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I am not sure how much help I am going to be, but I would like to try.

 

I am a major munchies person. I like to nibble, eating an actual main meal, ends p making me feel quite sick a lot of the time. I am also one of those people whom if I wam watching anything tv show, movie, I have to sit there munching even if I am full.

 

I am in love with David Wolfes ideals, and the whole prehistoric nut & berry diet, but I can't give up wheat lol, even though I have been told to, but if wheat is not a problem for you, maybe you could look into that kind of thing.

 

When we were in school, years and years ago, the fad that caught on from me, was chewing on raw vermicelli noodles. The amount you consume is usually miniscule, but if your a munch person like me, it satifys that craving without adding too much of anythiing. Teachers used to think we were chewing on plastic (brain dead teens lol) so we even got away with chewing it in class rofl.

 

Other things I have is Pistachios (am not sure of the calorie count of that) the whole cracking of the pistachios keeps my fingers busy, and if you have kids around, you don't end p with that many that your able to eat, as the kids sneak them all off you as your cracking them.

 

Cucumber, berry salads, and honeydew melon are 3 more of my snacking yums that I believe are calorie free.

 

Hope I have helped in some way darl xxxx

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Do you have a trigger food? A food that you eat that sets you off, that helps you lose total control? For some it's chocolate or any form of sugar. For other's it's bread or chips. I found, in our own home, when we wrote off sugar for the sake of one of our children I no longer had that "must have more" problem. If I do falter from the wagon a bit I notice it creep in. ;)

 

Oh, and I think Myfitnesspal.com is better then sparkpeople.. BUT that might just be because I live internationally and it's one of the only places that actually has the foods we consume in it. Plus I find entering my own recipes easier. ;)

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Do you have a trigger food? A food that you eat that sets you off, that helps you lose total control? For some it's chocolate or any form of sugar. For other's it's bread or chips. I found, in our own home, when we wrote off sugar for the sake of one of our children I no longer had that "must have more" problem. If I do falter from the wagon a bit I notice it creep in. ;)

 

Oh, and I think Myfitnesspal.com is better then sparkpeople.. BUT that might just be because I live internationally and it's one of the only places that actually has the foods we consume in it. Plus I find entering my own recipes easier. ;)

 

All food is a trigger;) I'll check out Myfitnesspal.com. Thank you.

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The no s diet has given me back a guilt free enjoyment of food. Even if I fall off the very easy to live by wagon, its not such a big deal to get back on. I don't count calories or measure food- that is what made me food pbsessive, although it has its place.

Thats what has worked for me- I guess we all find our way with this issue.

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The no s diet has given me back a guilt free enjoyment of food. Even if I fall off the very easy to live by wagon, its not such a big deal to get back on. I don't count calories or measure food- that is what made me food pbsessive, although it has its place.

Thats what has worked for me- I guess we all find our way with this issue.

 

I've looked into this. I find your enthusiasm refreshing! But my issues with my adrenals makes it better for me to have 5 small meals evenly spaced out. The no sweets and no seconds part is something I should adopt though.

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Has it helped?

 

Hi Jean-- Yes, OA has helped. In truth, though, I've no idea if my weight is going down. All I focus on is a minute by minute, "Am I compulsively overeating if I put this food in my mouth?" and then battling the demon/praying for God's help if the answer is yes. My struggle with food is very much an addiction mentality. OA maintains a good website that will give you an overview of how it works--it's a 12 step program very much like AA.

 

Like all 12 step programs, you should give it 6 meetings before you decide whether it's for you. Sometimes it takes awhile to see its value.

 

"Keep coming back. It works if you work it......."

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Hi Jean-- Yes, OA has helped. In truth, though, I've no idea if my weight is going down. All I focus on is a minute by minute, "Am I compulsively overeating if I put this food in my mouth?" and then battling the demon/praying for God's help if the answer is yes. My struggle with food is very much an addiction mentality. OA maintains a good website that will give you an overview of how it works--it's a 12 step program very much like AA.

 

Like all 12 step programs, you should give it 6 meetings before you decide whether it's for you. Sometimes it takes awhile to see its value.

 

"Keep coming back. It works if you work it......."

 

Thank you, Beth. I'll check out their website.

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I've looked into this. I find your enthusiasm refreshing! But my issues with my adrenals makes it better for me to have 5 small meals evenly spaced out. The no sweets and no seconds part is something I should adopt though.

 

ALthough you aren't to eat between meals on the no s diet- there is no restriction on the number of meals you eat per day- so, if 5 meals is your thing, that the number of meals you eat- but nothing between those meals.

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What do you eat for your morning and afternoon tea?

 

Rosie

 

Is that what we call a snack?

 

Here's a pretty typical day's menu:

 

Breakfast - 1 everything bagel thin (it's thinner and more lower calorie than a regular bagel), 2 eggs, water

 

Lunch - salad with protein of some kind (maybe tuna, beans, or some chicken), water

 

ETA: I forgot that I usually have 1 square of Lindt 85% dark chocolate with a Touch of Sea salt after lunch.

 

Snack - 2 rice cakes, peanut butter, water

 

Dinner - brown rice (sometimes white if I've run out), chicken stir fry with lots of veggies and a light sauce of soy sauce/lemon juice.

 

Evening snack (because this is when I'm particularly hungry) - 2 hardboiled eggs

 

For a while I was trying to have some kind of veggie at every meal but I fell off the wagon.

Edited by Jean in Newcastle
new info.
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Is that what we call a snack?

 

If you eat it mid morning and mid afternoon, yeah :tongue_smilie:

 

Here's a pretty typical day's menu:

 

Breakfast - 1 everything bagel thin (it's thinner and more lower calorie than a regular bagel), 2 eggs, water

 

An everything bagel? How can a thinner, lower calorie than normal bagel be called an everything bagel? :confused:

 

I don't know how your bod works, but you might find subbing the bagel for beans helps. When I was diabetic, I could choose between a cup of beans, or a quarter of a piece of toast for breakfast.

 

Lunch - salad with protein of some kind (maybe tuna, beans, or some chicken), water

 

Do you feel any different based on which protein you eat? You are eating oil on your salad, or avocado in it?

 

ETA: I forgot that I usually have 1 square of Lindt 85% dark chocolate with a Touch of Sea salt after lunch.

 

Only one? That's near saintly. ;)

 

Snack - 2 rice cakes, peanut butter, water

 

When do you eat the snacks? About 2 hours after the previous meal? Don't eat rice cakes. I eat popcorn with kelp powder sprinkled on it for arvo tea, but if that doesn't appeal, find something better than rice cakes. If they are what we call rice cakes, they haven't a nutrient in them and definitely do not fill bellies.

 

Evening snack (because this is when I'm particularly hungry) - 2 hardboiled eggs

 

When are you eating this? Supper, about 2 hours after dinner? If you eat a late dinner, you might find eating this snack before you start cooking dinner better. If you are eating it less than two hours after dinner, consider more fat in that meal. At that time of night, though, make it a carby snack instead of protein. You have problems with insomnia, don't you?

 

 

Rosie

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If you eat it mid morning and mid afternoon, yeah :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

An everything bagel? How can a thinner, lower calorie than normal bagel be called an everything bagel? :confused:

 

An everything bagel has sesame seeds, onions and poppy seeds on it. Thus "everything" means all the toppings.

 

I don't know how your bod works, but you might find subbing the bagel for beans helps. When I was diabetic, I could choose between a cup of beans, or a quarter of a piece of toast for breakfast.

 

But I'm already having protein in the eggs. Do I need more protein?

Do you feel any different based on which protein you eat? You are eating oil on your salad, or avocado in it?

 

Yes, the salad has either oil or avocado in it. I haven't noticed a difference in how I feel with different proteins.

 

Only one? That's near saintly. ;)

 

:Angel_anim:

 

When do you eat the snacks? About 2 hours after the previous meal? Don't eat rice cakes. I eat popcorn with kelp powder sprinkled on it for arvo tea, but if that doesn't appeal, find something better than rice cakes. If they are what we call rice cakes, they haven't a nutrient in them and definitely do not fill bellies.

 

Good point on the rice cakes. They are mainly a vehicle for the peanut butter;)

 

When are you eating this? Supper, about 2 hours after dinner? If you eat a late dinner, you might find eating this snack before you start cooking dinner better. If you are eating it less than two hours after dinner, consider more fat in that meal. At that time of night, though, make it a carby snack instead of protein. You have problems with insomnia, don't you?

 

 

Rosie

 

My meals are:

Breakfast 9 am

Lunch - 12:30 (I'm not hungry between breakfast and lunch)

Snack - 3 pm

Dinner - 6 pm

Evening snack - 8:30 or 9 (I go to bed at midnight)

 

I do best with protein at the evening snack. Otherwise I want a snack and then another snack and then another. . .

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I used to smear peanut/almond butter on celery sticks.

I too would drop the rice cakes - very low on the nutritional rung even though they sound so healthy.

Have you ever checked into "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon & Dr. Mary Enig?

Lots of good info in that book - so much more than a cookbook.

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I used to smear peanut/almond butter on celery sticks.

I too would drop the rice cakes - very low on the nutritional rung even though they sound so healthy.

Have you ever checked into "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon & Dr. Mary Enig?

Lots of good info in that book - so much more than a cookbook.

 

I've checked it out of the library. It seemed overwhelming to me. Maybe I should look at it again.

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My meals are:

Breakfast 9 am

Lunch - 12:30 (I'm not hungry between breakfast and lunch)

Snack - 3 pm

Dinner - 6 pm

Evening snack - 8:30 or 9 (I go to bed at midnight)

 

I do best with protein at the evening snack. Otherwise I want a snack and then another snack and then another. . .

 

You might want to have a look at the Serotonin Power Diet. I think I read an earlier version of the book, and while I was not the target audience and I thought a lot of their food suggestions interesting :blink:, their talk about the timing of meals was valuable. (A kick up the bum to me because I already knew it but had been too lazy to bother. :angelsad2:)

 

For breakfast, I wasn't suggesting the beans for their protein content. They contain carbs too. I was suggesting them because you might find you can eat more food that way. I've never counted calories so I don't know if it would work, I'm just hypothesising. :) When I was diabetic, as I said, I could eat a cup of beans or a quarter of a piece of toast.

 

Really consider a small carby snack for morning tea even if you're not hungry. The book said, and I find the same, I require significantly less lunch if I have that snack than if I don't. If I skip the snack, I want two whole lunches.

 

Rosie

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ALthough you aren't to eat between meals on the no s diet- there is no restriction on the number of meals you eat per day- so, if 5 meals is your thing, that the number of meals you eat- but nothing between those meals.

I had no idea about this at all. I thought that one could not eat more than 3 meals per day on the no s diet. Wow, learn something new every day. :)

But how would say 5 meals work? Wouldn't the other 2 meals feel like snacks? :confused:

Anyone have any examples?

I also hate and love food. In fact, I wish that I hated it more. I seem to love it a bit too much. ;)

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I had no idea about this at all. I thought that one could not eat more than 3 meals per day on the no s diet. Wow, learn something new every day. :)

But how would say 5 meals work? Wouldn't the other 2 meals feel like snacks? :confused:

Anyone have any examples?

I also hate and love food. In fact, I wish that I hated it more. I seem to love it a bit too much. ;)

 

Its a secret that the author put in there because some people are on doctor's recommendations etc to eat more than 3 meals- but he doesn't recommend it for everyone. The reason being- well, most of us don't need to, and it makes us think about food too much- and most people will naturally eat more if they eat 5 times a day. I don't do it. I think the best thing for me is allowing myself to get hungry between my 3 meals- and I think thats also when the weight loss happens- especially between 6 pm when I have dinner, and 8am the next morning when I have breakfast. If your stomach is always digesting, when does your system get to burn existing fat? I thought my blood sugar would crash, but if I eat enough at meals it doesn't- or I have the next meal a bit earlier and eat more. Thats the trick- eating enough at meals. But for some people, 5 meals might be a cutting back from permasnacking. Or just what their systems need for now, like Jean's.

 

I dont hate food at all. I am grateful for it.

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http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/why-we-get-fat/

 

Problems arise when this system goes off the rails, which most commonly happens when people develop insulin resistance, a problem of disordered insulin signaling. Insulin talks, but the cells don’t listen. So insulin keeps talking louder until the cells finally get the message. In other words, the pancreas keeps producing insulin and the blood levels continue to rise until the cells finally get the message. But it’s a message that has taken a lot of insulin force to deliver.

 

If all the different types of cells developed resistance to insulin at the same rate, we wouldn’t have as much of a problem. But they don’t. Different cells develop insulin resistance at different rates. Typically the first cells to become insulin resistant are the liver cells. The liver cells are continuously producing sugar and dumping it into the blood. Insulin shuts this process down. If the insulin level drops to zero, as it does in type I diabetes, the liver dumps a huge load of sugar in the blood causing all the blood sugar problems associated with this disease. Under normal circumstances, just a little insulin stops the liver cells in their tracks. But if these cells are resistant to insulin, much more is required to get them the message to turn off the sugar spigot.

 

In most people, the fat cells develop insulin resistance later, which creates the problem. If insulin levels are high to control the liver’s sugar factory output, then these elevated insulin levels are sending a strong message to the non-insulin-resistant fat cells. The message is take this fat and store it. High insulin not only drives fat into the fat cells, it prevents it from getting out. Fat is packed into the fat cells and kept there.

 

Between meals when insulin levels would normally fall, allowing the liberation of fat to feed all the body’s tissues, insulin remains high in an effort to keep the liver in check. Fat can’t get out of the fat cells, and the tissues begin to starve. Even though there is plenty of stored fat, the body can’t get to it because elevated insulin is preventing its release.

 

Starving tissues send a message to the brain, saying ‘we’re hungry.’ The brain responds by increasing the drive to feed. We eat, and the carbs we eat are consumed by the cells for immediate energy, and insulin stimulated by the dietary carbohydrate drives the fat into the fat cells where it is trapped with the rest of the fat already there. The fat cell mass gets larger and larger, and we become obese.

 

The above scenario explains a lot. Why can some people eat like crazy and not get fat? Perhaps because they develop insulin resistance in their fat cells just as they do in their liver cells. They don’t get fat, but they typically have all the other insulin-driven problems of the obese: high blood pressure, elevated triglycerides, increased risk for heart disease, etc. And all while staying skinny.

 

 

 

 

The above is an excerpt from a book review, but it's one of the more summarized places I can find the idea. Right now if your body is used to having plenty of sugar and such your cells may be insulin resistant, which means that you're body will tell you it's starving when it's not. If you can push past that point in a week or two your body will start to normalize again and you won't feel as hungry. At least that's been my experience.

 

Just a thought, do you feel you were addicted to sugar at all? Strait sweets or even simple carbs? My body was terribly addicted and my withdrawls were insane. Dr. Oz has a 28 day sugar detox plan if you want to try following it.

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What has finally worked for me is to re-define hunger. Whenever I get the urge to eat, I ask myself if I am hungry or am I just not feeling full? I have found that I don't really need to snack and I have smaller portions at mealtimes. It really was a mental switch that I had to trigger and I have a whole new attitude toward food now. In the past I have tried W.W. and Sparkpeople, but I find the tracking just makes me obsess over food and I end up "cheating". Now, I finally get the whole "eat to live, don't live to eat" deal.

 

I know..... easier said than done right?

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The above is an excerpt from a book review, but it's one of the more summarized places I can find the idea. Right now if your body is used to having plenty of sugar and such your cells may be insulin resistant, which means that you're body will tell you it's starving when it's not. If you can push past that point in a week or two your body will start to normalize again and you won't feel as hungry. At least that's been my experience.

 

Just a thought, do you feel you were addicted to sugar at all? Strait sweets or even simple carbs? My body was terribly addicted and my withdrawls were insane. Dr. Oz has a 28 day sugar detox plan if you want to try following it.

 

I think I'll have to get that book you quoted from and read more to see if it applies to me. I'm not diabetic and my bloodsugar drops to normal (I've checked with dh's glucometer). The reason I do the 5 small meals (and they are all supposed to be around 300 calories), is because with my adrenal problems it causes stress on my body if my bloodsugar gets too low. I am prone to hypoglycemia.

 

I think I'm more addicted to salt than sugar. I did go on a very strict candida diet and did not last more than 2 weeks. It wasn't the lack of grains though but because it was so strict that I couldn't have even beans or fruit. Those I missed very much.

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he doesn't recommend it for everyone.

it makes us think about food too much- and most people will naturally eat more if they eat 5 times a day.

I think the best thing for me is allowing myself to get hungry between my 3 meals- and I think thats also when the weight loss happens- especially between 6 pm when I have dinner, and 8am the next morning when I have breakfast.

If your stomach is always digesting, when does your system get to burn existing fat?

Thats the trick- eating enough at meals.

I dont hate food at all. I am grateful for it.

Peela, thank you as always for your very helpful feedback and incredible wisdom. :grouphug:

 

What has finally worked for me is to re-define hunger. Whenever I get the urge to eat, I ask myself if I am hungry or am I just not feeling full? I have found that I don't really need to snack and I have smaller portions at mealtimes. It really was a mental switch that I had to trigger and I have a whole new attitude toward food now. In the past I have tried W.W. and Sparkpeople, but I find the tracking just makes me obsess over food and I end up "cheating". Now, I finally get the whole "eat to live, don't live to eat" deal.

I know..... easier said than done right?

:iagree: and great reminders.

Thank you for reminding me to practice what I already know ...

 

How hungry are you right now?

1. Physically faint

2. Ravenous

3. Fairly hungry

4. Slightly hungry

5. Neutral

6. Pleasantly satisfied

7. Full

8. Stuffed

9. Bloated

10. Nauseous

 

Each person is different, but as a general rule, you’ll want to eat whenever you notice yourself between 3 and 4 on the scale – that is, when you are fairly hungry, but before you become ravenous.

If you wait until you get down to 1 or 2, your body will go into starvation mode and you’ll wind up eating more than your body needs and storing the excess as fat.

Practice tuning in to your body once an hour and giving yourself a number from 1 to 10 until you begin to notice differences between different points on the hunger scale.

The more you practice tuning in to your own hunger, the sooner you’ll be able to recognize your body’s subtle signals long before your stomach growls and your brain starts to get fuzzy.

 

TheHungerScale_1.JPG

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Drinking water to feel full only works to prevent me from feeling hungry. If I'm already hungry, it just makes things worse.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

This is so true for me. Thought of your post all day yesterday and did a thorough search for it again this morning until I found it. :D

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Here's a conundrum for all of you.

Yesterday I went on a 2 hour nature walk/picnic. I could only eat half of my sandwich. I got home and I wanted to munch and munch and munch. Being home seems to bring out the munchies in me. Homeschooling is hazardous to my weight!

Jean, for me, it's not so much the homeschooling, although I thought it was for the longest while. For me, my appetite gets out of control mostly with:

stress - I am emotional eater for sure

being around food and cooking/food prep - the bane of my existence. I cannot seem to diet or lose weight effectively when I have to prepare food for others.

intense and strenuous exercise - not immediately - but after a while - particularly swimming, which really, really increases my appetite (yet I love it - just love being in the water.

Food and weight loss, very, very frustrating ... :glare:

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I hate food for making me fat. I love to eat food - not to gorge myself but to sit down and enjoy (what seems to me) to be a decent plate of healthy food with pleasing taste and texture. But I did a calorie check yesterday and saw that my calories have crept up again, explaining why my weight is creeping up again. So today - I seriously am trying to limit my calorie intake to 300 calories per meal (5 meals total). I'm not sated. And yes, I've had some fat and some protein at each meal.

 

I enjoy food. Lots. I grew up in restaurants, on the kitchen side :D it's what people in my family does - to celebrate, to mourn, to gather, to share, to show love, to greet, to so many things. It's central to my life in many ways. As I get older I find I need to have better, and sometimes just different, discipline. It bites.

 

I adopted a vegetarian standard American diet in my 20s, moving somewhat away from the foods I grew up eating (also veg*n). It's been downhill ever since. I feel less sated, too.

 

Are 1500 calories enough for your weight? My MIL is about 250lbs, and has done every diet imaginable - a few times each. Her last diet was completely against every thing she had been trained by 'experts' to believe, and she lost a good 75lbs. She's kept most of it off. It's been as much of a mental re-education as it has a physical one. She's still progressing in the right direction, albeit a few hiccups here and there. Her culture is one that -like mine- has food as an integral part of socializing and living.

 

She was trying to use a reduced calorie diet, but that meant less fat. For her weight loss and health, she found that if she bumped it up a few hundred extra calories (fat only) that was the key. I don't know if it was the fat or if it was the few hundred extra calories that did it, but it was magic. She grew up in Eastern Europe on a family farm that provided 90% of their sustenance, eating the way trendy foodies dream of: organic, local, good food. Good fats. Nothing packaged. She didn't have a weight problem until -like me- as an adult she immigrated to the U.S. and adopted a more typical American diet/habits. She allowed herself an extra 100 calories of fat per meal, and what a difference it made. Counter-intuitive to the no-fat or no-fat philosophy promoted everywhere -including by her doctor- but amazingly enough it worked.

 

I'm trying to picture a 300 calorie meal that had adequate fat to make one feel full. I can think maybe eggs for breakfast - 3 eggs at about 70 calories each leaves very little butter or cheese to be added. Few, if any, sauteed veggies. Adding even just 50 calories more of fat might help - butter, cheese, avocado? Yum, avocado.

 

But as for lunch, dinner, and snack, I don't think I'd feel very full on 300 calories a meal either - even if I was eating five meals each day. If you don't want to increase your calories any, what about switching around your caloric range? 300 for breakfast, 200 for snack, 500 for lunch, 200 for second snack, 400 for dinner ... or something like that. A different combination might do better to leave you feeling satisfied for at least a few stretches of day.

 

And you could always add in hot tea as a filler around snacktime if you're feeling pangs. Or broths. Broths are low calorie, can be drunken (dranked?) or sipped or slurped. A cup of broth or tea before meals or in-between might help, too. Homemade isn't hard to do, even in a crockpot. It can be made in batches and frozen, too.

 

ETA after reading other responses:

If you're not against packaged things, maybe even a QUALITY protein shake (I like Jay Robb) mixed with bananas, yogurt or whole milk, and berries would make a good snack at 200-300 calories. You could even split milk and water for less calories. Freeze, sip slowly. Add some flavored drops if you like -- my friend likes Stevia but I find that too sweet (she has English Toffee and Vanilla Creme). I've tried a few capella drops at another friend's but haven't yet ordered my own. I plan to, though. Google Capella Flavor Drops and see what you think!

 

Good luck :grouphug:

Edited by eternalknot
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