What does it mean to you if you say you "love Jesus"? (CC, obviously)

[Ginevra]

I'm not sure if this is a philosophical question or a semantic argument, but that phrase often gives me pause. When people say they "love Jesus," what do they mean by that? Do they mean the teachings of Jesus really resonate with them and they want to be more like that? Do they mean they love the principles of the Christian faith and, as the central figure of justification, their happy feelings about faith coalesce in Jesus?

 

I'm asking as a Christian, but I guess you might also say as a scarred Christian, a pretty much been-around-the-block Christian.;) Just curious as to what others might say about this.

[Liz CA]

Danielle, this has occurred to me rather frequently as well. I *think* most people mean they love to be followers of Christ.

I have never used the "love Jesus" phrase myself because it sounds a little awkward to me.

[Heidi]

I ain't got no idear. :bigear:

[Gailmegan]

I can't speak for others, but when I say it I mean that I am in love with who Jesus is a person. He is fully God and without blame, yet he gave up all he had in heaven to become a man and to die on the cross for me, because he loves me. His teachings are an outpouring of who he is, so of course I love his teachings. But if I express my love for him it is personal not philosophical.

[Sputterduck]

It means I love Jesus. As it would be the same meaning if I say I love my husband (though I don't have one. don't want to confuse people LOL ) or my child or my mother.

 

Why would it mean anything else? We are supposed to have a personal relationship with Him. And love is supposed to be the major factor in that relationship.

[Ginevra]

It means I love Jesus. As it would be the same meaning if I say I love my husband (though I don't have one. don't want to confuse people LOL ) or my child or my mother.

 

Why would it mean anything else? We are supposed to have a personal relationship with Him. And love is supposed to be the major factor in that relationship.

 

Well, see that's where it gets murky. What is a personal relationship? I'm in a personal relationship with my husband. I can listen to him while he speaks and also add my thoughts to his. We can participate in activities together. We can physically experience each other. It's completely reciprocal.

 

I can't do any of those things with Jesus, so how could anything I do in the faith be called a "relationship"? There have been times I've had very interesting spiritual experiences in which I felt very close to God, but calling those experiences "loving Jesus" feels strange. Those have also been rare experiences. I don't walk around feeling that way.

[WishboneDawn]

Danielle, this has occurred to me rather frequently as well. I *think* most people mean they love to be followers of Christ.

I have never used the "love Jesus" phrase myself because it sounds a little awkward to me.

 

Ditto. I've heard it so often it also tends to ring hollow for me. Not that people don't say it with meaning but by the time it's traveled through my ears into my brain I've stripped it of that meaning. :)

[specialmama]

I love Jesus, and we do have a reciprocal relationship. The more I get to know Him, the more He makes Himself known. It is a journey, but when I abide in Him, I know He is with me, giving me the strength to get through whatever. When I say I love Him, it means there is no other before Him, it means that I want to know Him more and more. My relationship with Him is deeper than any relationship I've ever had with anyone, my dh included. It may sound strange, but it's true. He knows my innermost thoughts before I think them, and He loves me totally and completely. Even when I falter, He remains faithful.

[Emerkaza]

It means I love Jesus. As it would be the same meaning if I say I love my husband (though I don't have one. don't want to confuse people LOL ) or my child or my mother.

:iagree: Also, I love what Jesus did for me when He gave His life for my sins.

[Emerkaza]

Well, see that's where it gets murky. What is a personal relationship? I'm in a personal relationship with my husband. I can listen to him while he speaks and also add my thoughts to his. We can participate in activities together. We can physically experience each other. It's completely reciprocal.

 

I can't do any of those things with Jesus, so how could anything I do in the faith be called a "relationship"? There have been times I've had very interesting spiritual experiences in which I felt very close to God, but calling those experiences "loving Jesus" feels strange. Those have also been rare experiences. I don't walk around feeling that way.

 

This is what I struggle with....having a "personal relationship" with Jesus. I love Him and what He did for me. But I see Jesus as this awesome, powerful and magnificent God; and I am not worthy to be in an "equal" relationship with Him. I bow down to Him and worship Him. Does that make sense to anyone else?

[justamouse]

that one drives me nutso, But I also hate the term 'bornagain' and other Christianese colloquialisms. It's my problem, I know. :001_smile:

[Ginevra]

I love Jesus, and we do have a reciprocal relationship. The more I get to know Him, the more He makes Himself known. It is a journey, but when I abide in Him, I know He is with me, giving me the strength to get through whatever. When I say I love Him, it means there is no other before Him, it means that I want to know Him more and more. My relationship with Him is deeper than any relationship I've ever had with anyone, my dh included. It may sound strange, but it's true. He knows my innermost thoughts before I think them, and He loves me totally and completely. Even when I falter, He remains faithful.

 

That is a truly eloquent answer.

 

I don't want to nit-pick, I'm just trying to understand but...what is this like in your head? If you think Jesus is with you and giving you strength, how do you experience that? And what makes you believe you are totally and completely loved? (And don't say "The Bible tells me so." :D)

[Dolphin]

Well, see that's where it gets murky. What is a personal relationship? I'm in a personal relationship with my husband. I can listen to him while he speaks and also add my thoughts to his. We can participate in activities together. We can physically experience each other. It's completely reciprocal.

 

I can't do any of those things with Jesus, so how could anything I do in the faith be called a "relationship"? There have been times I've had very interesting spiritual experiences in which I felt very close to God, but calling those experiences "loving Jesus" feels strange. Those have also been rare experiences. I don't walk around feeling that way.

 

This is where the whole trinity thing gets interesting. Although they are three separate entities, they are also one. For me it boils down to who you identify with the most. It sounds like you have a more personal relationship with God. By loving God, you are also loving Jesus though.

 

I had an interesting conversation with a Catholic once, and I was asking about Mary. Why the hail Marys and why a lot of people pray to her. What she said is that people can identify with her as a real person, but she is important enough that God chose her to be Jesus's mother on earth. I don't know if I am making sense with this, but I think a lot of people identify more with Jesus because he was man.

 

I do love Jesus, and the holy spirit, but my prayer life for the most part is with God. My experiences have been when praying to him, and through him. By having that relationship with him, I have it with all.

 

I hope that helps and doesn't confuse matters further.

 

Nicole

[Greta]

This is what I struggle with....having a "personal relationship" with Jesus. I love Him and what He did for me. But I see Jesus as this awesome, powerful and magnificent God; and I am not worthy to be in an "equal" relationship with Him. I bow down to Him and worship Him. Does that make sense to anyone else?

 

Yes. Completely. The word 'relationship' feels somehow both inadequate and inappropriate to me. I can't really articulate it -- which begs the question: why am I posting? :lol: I guess just to say that you are not alone!

 

ETA: I don't mean inappropriate as in "people shouldn't say that!", but only as in "I don't feel comfortable saying that". It's like wearing an ill-fitting shoe. Makes me squirm. Other people's shoes, however, don't bother me at all. :D

 

ETA2: I like the word communion much better.

Edited May 19, 2011 by GretaLynne

[specialmama]

That is a truly eloquent answer.

 

I don't want to nit-pick, I'm just trying to understand but...what is this like in your head? If you think Jesus is with you and giving you strength, how do you experience that? And what makes you believe you are totally and completely loved? (And don't say "The Bible tells me so." :D)

 

What it's like in my head: an ever-increasing communion with Him. Reading, praying, little comments throughout the day, sometimes on a minute-by-minute basis. There's no big gap between Him and I, He's just there because I try to abide in Him. What makes me believe I'm totally and completely loved? I know Him. He has danced when I've sang to Him, laughed when I've danced, and cried when I've cried. I prayed 12 years ago that I would see things through His eyes. Let me ask you: think of the person you love the most... now, tell me, how do you know they love you? You just...know. You become so in tune with them that you can say how they'd feel about something. You spend so much time with them that they're likes and dislikes become your own.

As I mentioned before, it is a journey, one that takes effort and time and committment. I don't want to sound all together, believe me, I'm not. Nor do I have it all figured out and perfected. But I know who does have it figured out, and I'm trusting Him. :001_smile:

[simka2]

For me it is a very experiental based relationship. I "met" Jesus outside of any church or bible study. One of those life changing encounters. So when I say, "I love Jesus" I love Him. I've felt Him and been held by Him.

 

That is the only reason I still believe in Him. The one thing the church, pastors, the bible and other Christians could not contaminate or change was my feelings towards Him. My feelings towards those other things have definately changed.

[WishboneDawn]

I think I know another reason why I'm not much for, "I love Jesus."

 

It seems to me to be very centered on self. I know that's the point for some Christians but I'm much more on the communal salvation, John 3:17 side of things. The song, "Jesus Loves Me," for instance just drives me up the wall. :)

 

How you understand, "I Love Jesus," and whether it's a phrase you'd ever use probably depends heavily on your religious background and the denomination you're a part of.

[kamom]

Something like this. Because he loves me so, and what he's done for me, I want to love him in return, to serve him and to walk in His love toward those around me.

He has proven Himself faithful to me time and time again. That makes me love him even more. Although I plan on staying faithful if my (love) feelings come or go. ( like I plan on in my marriage)

[Ginevra]

What it's like in my head: an ever-increasing communion with Him. Reading, praying, little comments throughout the day, sometimes on a minute-by-minute basis. There's no big gap between Him and I, He's just there because I try to abide in Him. What makes me believe I'm totally and completely loved? I know Him. He has danced when I've sang to Him, laughed when I've danced, and cried when I've cried. I prayed 12 years ago that I would see things through His eyes. Let me ask you: think of the person you love the most... now, tell me, how do you know they love you? You just...know. You become so in tune with them that you can say how they'd feel about something. You spend so much time with them that they're likes and dislikes become your own.

As I mentioned before, it is a journey, one that takes effort and time and committment. I don't want to sound all together, believe me, I'm not. Nor do I have it all figured out and perfected. But I know who does have it figured out, and I'm trusting Him. :001_smile:

 

That sounds so nice. I don't get it at all, though. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't know...I trusted a path I thought God was leading me down, but it didn't turn out well. It just shattered my understanding of trusting in God. It's in the aftermath of that that I don't really "get it" in saying God is faithful or that He loves me.

 

And lest anyone think I'm totally myopic, I "project" this can't-trust-God interpretation onto other situations of other people; when Steven Curtis Chapman's adopted daughter died in that accident, for example. He did this wonderful, loving and godly thing adopting that little girl, but it ended in tragedy, although I think SCC does not have my issues and probably hasn't faltered because of it.

[simka2]

That sounds so nice. I don't get it at all, though. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't know...I trusted a path I thought God was leading me down, but it didn't turn out well. It just shattered my understanding of trusting in God. It's in the aftermath of that that I don't really "get it" in saying God is faithful or that He loves me.

 

And lest anyone think I'm totally myopic, I "project" this can't-trust-God interpretation onto other situations of other people; when Steven Curtis Chapman's adopted daughter died in that accident, for example. He did this wonderful, loving and godly thing adopting that little girl, but it ended in tragedy, although I think SCC does not have my issues and probably hasn't faltered because of it.

 

 

Hmmmmmm.....I could write a book on this. ;) Eventually...and it has taken years...I had to realize that my perspective on how things should "work" was off. My perspective ran something like, "If I serve God with a pure heart, if I trust in Him and walk by faith, no matter what He will always take care of me. He will never abandon me and everything will work out. In fact the MORE I do for God, the more Holy and self-sacrificing things I do. The more He will protect me." So, if something BAD happens then it means I did something wrong and am being punished, God doesn't love me enough to protect me, or God can't. None of those are real comforting. :glare:

 

But, what if God doesn't work form our perspective? What if he doesn't see hardship the same way we do. We fear the pain, we fear humiliation, we fear hardship...but I do not know that God fears those thing for us. We see something to avoid, but does He? Or does He walk into any storm confidently knowing He can see us through? That he can bring something precious out of anything?

 

I am probably just rambling. ;)

[LarlaB]

That sounds so nice. I don't get it at all, though. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't know...I trusted a path I thought God was leading me down, but it didn't turn out well. It just shattered my understanding of trusting in God. It's in the aftermath of that that I don't really "get it" in saying God is faithful or that He loves me.

 

And lest anyone think I'm totally myopic, I "project" this can't-trust-God interpretation onto other situations of other people; when Steven Curtis Chapman's adopted daughter died in that accident, for example. He did this wonderful, loving and godly thing adopting that little girl, but it ended in tragedy, although I think SCC does not have my issues and probably hasn't faltered because of it.

 

 

A side note, you should buy (and read the lyrics of) SCC's new album which is centered around the time since his daughters death. Listen to how he processed through it, and hear his dealings with grief, anger, confusion, loneliness.... Lyrically, several songs are 'Holy moments' that cause my soul to gasp at his honesty as it connects to his realization of God's faithfulness amidst the pain.

 

Album is called "Beauty Will Rise" http://www.amazon.com/Beauty-Will-Rise/dp/B002SXS84C/ref=sr_shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305846342&sr=301-1.

Edited May 19, 2011 by LarlaB

[amo_mea_filiis.]

(And don't say "The Bible tells me so." :D)

 

Not Christian here, but had to comment on this. I try to be a good daughter and talk to my mother almost daily. At least once during every.single conversation she starts preaching to me and rounds everything out with "The Bible is true because the Bible says so". :glare:

[Ginevra]

Hmmmmmm.....I could write a book on this. ;) Eventually...and it has taken years...I had to realize that my perspective on how things should "work" was off. My perspective ran something like, "If I serve God with a pure heart, if I trust in Him and walk by faith, no matter what He will always take care of me. He will never abandon me and everything will work out. In fact the MORE I do for God, the more Holy and self-sacrificing things I do. The more He will protect me." So, if something BAD happens then it means I did something wrong and am being punished, God doesn't love me enough to protect me, or God can't. None of those are real comforting. :glare:

 

But, what if God doesn't work form our perspective? What if he doesn't see hardship the same way we do. We fear the pain, we fear humiliation, we fear hardship...but I do not know that God fears those thing for us. We see something to avoid, but does He? Or does He walk into any storm confidently knowing He can see us through? That he can bring something precious out of anything?

 

I am probably just rambling. ;)

 

But, simka, doesn't that sound like a cop-out? If we can't trust out own understanding of what is "good" and what is "harm," then how can scriptures about these topics provide any comfort? If I trust that "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose," and then I act in a way that I believe is according to His purpose, but what I am given is not objectively "good," what comfort is that to me? I do believe that God can bring something precious out of anything, but what purpose would it serve? Why let harm befall in order to bring something "good" - and again, how can I even trust my own understanding of what is "good" and what is "harm" if God can always be excused by "His ways our higher than our ways."

 

I don't know if this is resonating with anyone but own tortured self. :tongue_smilie:

 

A side note, you should buy (and read the lyrics of) SCC's new album which is centered around the time since his daughters death. Listen to how he processed through it, and hear his dealings with grief, anger, confusion, loneliness.... Lyrically, several songs are 'Holy moments' that cause my soul to gasp at his honesty as it connects to his realization of God's faithfulness amidst the pain.

 

Album is called "Beauty Will Rise" http://www.amazon.com/Beauty-Will-Rise/dp/B002SXS84C/ref=sr_shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305846342&sr=301-1.

 

Worth a look, for sure.

 

Not Christian here, but had to comment on this. I try to be a good daughter and talk to my mother almost daily. At least once during every.single conversation she starts preaching to me and rounds everything out with "The Bible is true because the Bible says so". :glare:

 

I have to chuckle. :lol: I've heard it a zillion times, too. I even remember a record we had as kids and the refrain was always, "...how do I know? The Bible tells me so..." It was a very dorky song in retrospect.

[justamouse]

Hmmmmmm.....I could write a book on this. ;) Eventually...and it has taken years...I had to realize that my perspective on how things should "work" was off. My perspective ran something like, "If I serve God with a pure heart, if I trust in Him and walk by faith, no matter what He will always take care of me. He will never abandon me and everything will work out. In fact the MORE I do for God, the more Holy and self-sacrificing things I do. The more He will protect me." So, if something BAD happens then it means I did something wrong and am being punished, God doesn't love me enough to protect me, or God can't. None of those are real comforting. :glare:

 

But, what if God doesn't work form our perspective? What if he doesn't see hardship the same way we do. We fear the pain, we fear humiliation, we fear hardship...but I do not know that God fears those thing for us. We see something to avoid, but does He? Or does He walk into any storm confidently knowing He can see us through? That he can bring something precious out of anything?

 

I am probably just rambling. ;)

 

So beautifully put. That totally speared me. This was the half I didn't write on the prayer thread.

[Janie Grace]

I love Jesus, and we do have a reciprocal relationship. The more I get to know Him, the more He makes Himself known. It is a journey, but when I abide in Him, I know He is with me, giving me the strength to get through whatever. When I say I love Him, it means there is no other before Him, it means that I want to know Him more and more. My relationship with Him is deeper than any relationship I've ever had with anyone, my dh included. It may sound strange, but it's true. He knows my innermost thoughts before I think them, and He loves me totally and completely. Even when I falter, He remains faithful.

 

THIS. Exactly this.

[WishboneDawn]

But, simka, doesn't that sound like a cop-out? If we can't trust out own understanding of what is "good" and what is "harm," then how can scriptures about these topics provide any comfort? If I trust that "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose," and then I act in a way that I believe is according to His purpose, but what I am given is not objectively "good," what comfort is that to me? I do believe that God can bring something precious out of anything, but what purpose would it serve? Why let harm befall in order to bring something "good" - and again, how can I even trust my own understanding of what is "good" and what is "harm" if God can always be excused by "His ways our higher than our ways."

 

I don't know if this is resonating with anyone but own tortured self. :tongue_smilie:

 

I get it. It's why I often don't feel comfortable talking about Christianity with most other Christians. So much of what's said strikes me, as amo_mea_filiis demonstrated, as circular logic. It makes sense for some I suppose but never works for me.

 

I've a minister friend who says church isn't about answers but about finding better questions. I think that's the path I follow. I'm far more comfortable stressing over the questions then relaxing with what seem like the answers. If that makes sense.

 

I've got a friend who's often trying to get me to come to her Baptist church and her lure is that there I'll find Truth. She doesn't know that's exactly the wrong approach with me. :) Probably why the Anglican church has my heart. It's such a mixed up jumble of ideas and conflicting views.

[milovany]

But, what if God doesn't work form our perspective? What if he doesn't see hardship the same way we do. We fear the pain, we fear humiliation, we fear hardship...but I do not know that God fears those thing for us. We see something to avoid, but does He? Or does He walk into any storm confidently knowing He can see us through? That he can bring something precious out of anything?

 

I am probably just rambling. ;)

 

Or not. Very beautifully worded.

[simka2]

But, simka, doesn't that sound like a cop-out? If we can't trust out own understanding of what is "good" and what is "harm," then how can scriptures about these topics provide any comfort? If I trust that "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose," and then I act in a way that I believe is according to His purpose, but what I am given is not objectively "good," what comfort is that to me? I do believe that God can bring something precious out of anything, but what purpose would it serve? Why let harm befall in order to bring something "good" - and again, how can I even trust my own understanding of what is "good" and what is "harm" if God can always be excused by "His ways our higher than our ways."

 

In her book 1000 Gifts, Ann Voscamp relates something her BIL told her. Her brother in law reminds her about King Hezekiah. King Hezekiah was going to die. He saw his death as something harmful, something to be avoided. He prayed to God to grant him life. God heard his prayer and gave Hezekiah 10? more years. Well in that 10 years Manasseh is born. It was said that there was no king before or after that was evil as Manasseh.

 

In a sense, I don't trust that I have enough wisdom to always know what is "good" and what is "harmful" for me. I hope that I am learning, but one thing I am learning is that sometimes God will lead me into the valley, because it is the only way to the Paradise on the other side.

 

That may not make sense, but it were I am at. :D

I don't know if this is resonating with anyone but own tortured self. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

.

:grouphug: answered to the best of my ability above.

 

Edited: I don't really go in for the "his ways are higher than our ways" stuff. To Christiancheesy for me. My thing is that sometimes what I interpret as a devestation is actually a rescue mission. Kind like that story about the animal that gets pooped on by the elephant, only to have a lion walk up smell the poop and walk away. Poop stinks, but Lions eat you. What seems for ones harm, actually ends up being for their benefit.

Edited May 20, 2011 by simka2

[AnthemLights]

But, simka, doesn't that sound like a cop-out? If we can't trust out own understanding of what is "good" and what is "harm," then how can scriptures about these topics provide any comfort? If I trust that "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose," and then I act in a way that I believe is according to His purpose, but what I am given is not objectively "good," what comfort is that to me? I do believe that God can bring something precious out of anything, but what purpose would it serve? Why let harm befall in order to bring something "good" - and again, how can I even trust my own understanding of what is "good" and what is "harm" if God can always be excused by "His ways our higher than our ways." /QUOTE]

 

 

This doesn't sound like a cop-out or an excuse (imo)....it is the basis of my faith. God's ways are higher than ours...that's what makes HIM God. He knows the "end from the beginning" and He also loves me more than anything so no matter what happens I know that He has it in control and that something good will come from the situation. I like Simka's example of Hezekiah. Or think about the death of a child. To us that may seem tragic, but viewed in the light of eternity....would you rather have your child die young and go to heaven or grow up to turn his back on God? Am I being too simplistic in my thinking? :confused:

 

I agree that there are many hard questions in the Christian faith, but I also believe that there are answers. Jesus said he is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

 

I love Ravi Zacharias' ministry of "Let My People Think". http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/let-my-people-think/

 

~Jen

[Ginevra]

Or think about the death of a child. To us that may seem tragic, but viewed in the light of eternity....would you rather have your child die young and go to heaven or grow up to turn his back on God? Am I being too simplistic in my thinking?

:glare: I am thinking about the death of a child, my child, and yes, you are being too simplistic in your thinking. I didn't embrace motherhood to populate heaven and if that's the purpose God was calling me to, I'll pass.

 

What I'm asking is how anyone can feel secure about God bringing good out of all things if it's not necessarily going to jive with any notion we have of good.

 

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

If you ask God for a fish and he gives you a snake, do you just shrug and say, "Well, maybe it will turn out to be a fish in the end." :confused: This even makes a point about answered prayer. When people are happy about an answered prayer, they actually mean, "God answered my prayers in a way that is clearly good." If you asked for a fish and got a fish, there's nothing to wonder about. If you asked for a fish and got a snake, why don't you stand up in church and testify to that? Why don't people stand up and say, "Well, praise God! I'm sure the snake will make a nice fish somehow."?

 

What do you do with it if God leads you to net the fish, only to have it turn out to be a snake?

[Dolphin]

I get it. It's why I often don't feel comfortable talking about Christianity with most other Christians. So much of what's said strikes me, as amo_mea_filiis demonstrated, as circular logic. It makes sense for some I suppose but never works for me.

 

I've a minister friend who says church isn't about answers but about finding better questions. I think that's the path I follow. I'm far more comfortable stressing over the questions then relaxing with what seem like the answers. If that makes sense.

 

I've got a friend who's often trying to get me to come to her Baptist church and her lure is that there I'll find Truth. She doesn't know that's exactly the wrong approach with me. :) Probably why the Anglican church has my heart. It's such a mixed up jumble of ideas and conflicting views.

:iagree:

I am an Anglican too. There are a lot of us out here that also feel uncomfortable talking about our faith with other Christians. I have a few friends who are really trying to save me from my Anglican church.

 

I have faith that God makes sure I know what I need to know. Other than that I am comfortable with not knowing things. The only person who knows everything about God is God. It is not for me to quest to know as much about God as God knows, he does not want that. Look at the Tower of Babel. I have lots of questions, but I am okay if I learn the answers once I have joined God. I think I am rambling now.

[Heidi]

I don't know what you're specific experiences have been, but I thought maybe this might help answer questions. http://lds.org/general-conference/2011/04/as-many-as-i-love-i-rebuke-and-chasten?lang=eng

[simka2]

:glare: I am thinking about the death of a child, my child, and yes, you are being too simplistic in your thinking. I didn't embrace motherhood to populate heaven and if that's the purpose God was calling me to, I'll pass.

 

What I'm asking is how anyone can feel secure about God bringing good out of all things if it's not necessarily going to jive with any notion we have of good.

 

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

If you ask God for a fish and he gives you a snake, do you just shrug and say, "Well, maybe it will turn out to be a fish in the end." :confused: This even makes a point about answered prayer. When people are happy about an answered prayer, they actually mean, "God answered my prayers in a way that is clearly good." If you asked for a fish and got a fish, there's nothing to wonder about. If you asked for a fish and got a snake, why don't you stand up in church and testify to that? Why don't people stand up and say, "Well, praise God! I'm sure the snake will make a nice fish somehow."?

 

What do you do with it if God leads you to net the fish, only to have it turn out to be a snake?

 

 

Quill, :grouphug:. Often times pain calls out to pain. I hear your pain. I know pain. Pain led me down a path of questioning, anger, growth, change, and eventually peace and hope. This path was far longer and more difficult than I ever realized. I have been angry, and I am probably strange in that I think anger can be a good thing. It is the vehicle that takes from one level to another. I am sure it can be a bad thing, but I find that is more when it is denied and locked inside us, than when we are honest that it is there.

 

Shoot! I have been incredibly angry today. There is so much I do not understand.

 

I do know this, if I ask God for a fish and He gives me a snake. It is only because I would have choked on a bone, but can withstand the venom.

[Dolphin]

:glare: I am thinking about the death of a child, my child, and yes, you are being too simplistic in your thinking. I didn't embrace motherhood to populate heaven and if that's the purpose God was calling me to, I'll pass.

 

What I'm asking is how anyone can feel secure about God bringing good out of all things if it's not necessarily going to jive with any notion we have of good.

 

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

If you ask God for a fish and he gives you a snake, do you just shrug and say, "Well, maybe it will turn out to be a fish in the end." :confused: This even makes a point about answered prayer. When people are happy about an answered prayer, they actually mean, "God answered my prayers in a way that is clearly good." If you asked for a fish and got a fish, there's nothing to wonder about. If you asked for a fish and got a snake, why don't you stand up in church and testify to that? Why don't people stand up and say, "Well, praise God! I'm sure the snake will make a nice fish somehow."?

 

What do you do with it if God leads you to net the fish, only to have it turn out to be a snake?

 

:grouphug:Danielle, I did not realize that you had lost a child. I am sorry. I have never been through anything like that. I have to admit that I worry about how I would deal with that.

 

If this doesn't help, just ignore, but this is how I look at bad things in the world.

 

God gave us paradise in the form of Eden. We chose free will in the form of a forbidden apple. So we were given paradise and free will. Free will has given us the world that we now live in.Bad things happen, and God does not control all of it, he loved us enough to give us free will. If we have faith in him, he is there for us to lean on in bad times, but there is evil here on earth. Once we have survived our time on this planet, we get to join him, and it will be worth it. At times when things are really hard, we don't always know how that well happen, we just need to have faith that it will.

 

So, a few images that help me;

Male peacocks. That turquoise color to me yells there is a God.

 

Think of the images that see of what a baby sees in the womb. Everything is shades of red, compare that to the world we have. When the baby is in the womb, that is all they know. This world is like a womb, Heaven is beyond what we can imagine.

 

2 poems

The Weaver (ofttimes he weaveth sorrow, I and in foolish pride, forget he sees the upper and I the underside)

Footsteps

 

2 Songs

Unanswered Prayers

A love without end, Amen.

 

Sorry if that is rambling, but those are some of the things that help me when I start questioning all the bad out there.

 

Nicole

[Sputterduck]

that one drives me nutso, But I also hate the term 'bornagain' and other Christianese colloquialisms. It's my problem, I know. :001_smile:

 

Why is it a colloquialism? It is the simplest way to state that a person loves

Jesus when they feel like communicating that. People aren't trying to repeat a common phrase. They mean... they love Jesus.

 

And born again comes from a direct Bible quote. It says you need to be born again. That is close to the heart of many Christians. Calling it a colloquialism makes it seem trite. It's not. It has deep meaning.

[Sputterduck]

I think I know another reason why I'm not much for, "I love Jesus."

 

It seems to me to be very centered on self. I know that's the point for some Christians but I'm much more on the communal salvation, John 3:17 side of things. The song, "Jesus Loves Me," for instance just drives me up the wall. :)

 

How you understand, "I Love Jesus," and whether it's a phrase you'd ever use probably depends heavily on your religious background and the denomination you're a part of.

 

Is it selfish for you to say, "I love my husband." ? Why would it be any different with Jesus?

[Caitilin]

Is it selfish for you to say, "I love my husband." ? Why would it be any different with Jesus?

 

I think for me, the answer is that I am inherently, in the very depths of my being, equal to my husband. I do not share that equality with Christ. I don't know that I would call it selfish to speak that way of my Lord, but that speaking of Him in that way fails to acknowledge His superiority to me; maybe I would say self-centered. I don't know.

 

Also, while I truly, madly, deeply love my husband, and our marriage is strong and happy, I don't try to love him with all my heart, soul, and mind. My love for my husband and his for me reflects the love Christ has for us. All our loves are but reflections of His Love; so really the love is not about me, it's about Him.

 

I am rambling, sorry. Personally, I never say " I love Jesus"; I am much more the "I worship my Lord and Savior" kinda girl.:001_smile:

[Maverick_Mom]

I really struggle with saying that I *love* Jesus. I think that's a reflection of where I am in my relationship with Him.

 

I love my dh. I love my children. I have no problem saying that I love them.

 

But saying that I *love* Jesus implies a closeness and a warmth that is not there yet in my relationship with Him. There is a reverence, a gratitude, an acknowledgment of who He is and what He has done for me. But because of my own issues, I still feel a kind of distance between us -- like you might feel with someone whom you respect but maybe fear a little. If I were to see Jesus in person, I don't think I could go up and give Him a great big bear hug and say, "I love you!" I guess I just don't see Him as a spiritual "Dad" yet. And again, that's because of my own issues. If I did see Him in person, I think I'd be overcome with emotion -- I'd cry -- I'd be speechless. But I couldn't say, "I love you" -- unless, maybe, I'm saying it in another way by serving Him, by obeying Him, by submitting to Him, by seeking His will.

 

There's the stereotype of the male who can't utter the words "I love you." Maybe I'm a female who has that problem with God? I don't know.

[Sputterduck]

I really struggle with saying that I *love* Jesus. I think that's a reflection of where I am in my relationship with Him.

 

I love my dh. I love my children. I have no problem saying that I love them.

 

But saying that I *love* Jesus implies a closeness and a warmth that is not there yet in my relationship with Him. There is a reverence, a gratitude, an acknowledgment of who He is and what He has done for me. But because of my own issues, I still feel a kind of distance between us -- like you might feel with someone whom you respect but maybe fear a little. If I were to see Jesus in person, I don't think I could go up and give Him a great big bear hug and say, "I love you!" I guess I just don't see Him as a spiritual "Dad" yet. And again, that's because of my own issues. If I did see Him in person, I think I'd be overcome with emotion -- I'd cry -- I'd be speechless. But I couldn't say, "I love you" -- unless, maybe, I'm saying it in another way by serving Him, by obeying Him, by submitting to Him, by seeking His will.

 

There's the stereotype of the male who can't utter the words "I love you." Maybe I'm a female who has that problem with God? I don't know.

 

Have you ever tried taking personal time out on a regular basis to just spend with Him? To pray to Him sometimes and sometimes wait quietly for an answer?

 

I think sometimes people do to much talking in prayer and not enough listening. You have to let it be both ways to have a relationship.

[Maverick_Mom]

Have you ever tried taking personal time out on a regular basis to just spend with Him? To pray to Him sometimes and sometimes wait quietly for an answer?

 

I think sometimes people do to much talking in prayer and not enough listening. You have to let it be both ways to have a relationship.

 

I have just started doing this. It's helped enormously to do it during the day and NOT wait until late at night when I'm likely to fall asleep. ;)

 

And I agree completely about the listening part.

[Sputterduck]

I have just started doing this. It's helped enormously to do it during the day and NOT wait until late at night when I'm likely to fall asleep. ;)

 

And I agree completely about the listening part.

 

 

That's great. :001_smile:

[specialmama]

:glare: I am thinking about the death of a child, my child, and yes, you are being too simplistic in your thinking. I didn't embrace motherhood to populate heaven and if that's the purpose God was calling me to, I'll pass.

 

What I'm asking is how anyone can feel secure about God bringing good out of all things if it's not necessarily going to jive with any notion we have of good.

 

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

If you ask God for a fish and he gives you a snake, do you just shrug and say, "Well, maybe it will turn out to be a fish in the end." :confused: This even makes a point about answered prayer. When people are happy about an answered prayer, they actually mean, "God answered my prayers in a way that is clearly good." If you asked for a fish and got a fish, there's nothing to wonder about. If you asked for a fish and got a snake, why don't you stand up in church and testify to that? Why don't people stand up and say, "Well, praise God! I'm sure the snake will make a nice fish somehow."?

 

What do you do with it if God leads you to net the fish, only to have it turn out to be a snake?

:grouphug: Quill, I hear that pain too. :grouphug: Sometimes our Christian comfort simply means weeping with those who weep; many biblical quotes seem trite when faced with raw sorrow. There is a time for mourning, and trying to understand the "whys" may never be satisfied in this life. (bad sentence there, forgive me.) All I know is that He loves you and your child so deeply and completely. :grouphug:

 

 

Quill, :grouphug:. Often times pain calls out to pain. I hear your pain. I know pain. Pain led me down a path of questioning, anger, growth, change, and eventually peace and hope. This path was far longer and more difficult than I ever realized. I have been angry, and I am probably strange in that I think anger can be a good thing. It is the vehicle that takes from one level to another. I am sure it can be a bad thing, but I find that is more when it is denied and locked inside us, than when we are honest that it is there.

 

Shoot! I have been incredibly angry today. There is so much I do not understand.

 

I do know this, if I ask God for a fish and He gives me a snake. It is only because I would have choked on a bone, but can withstand the venom.

 

Beautifully said, Simka.

[Liz CA]

I have no problem believing He loves me, however I feel like it's not enough to love Him, I feel I need to do more than that. I worship Him because He is in the real sense of the word awesome.

Makes you really think when you have to put it in words!

[mlbuchina]

I can't speak for others, but when I say it I mean that I am in love with who Jesus is a person. He is fully God and without blame, yet he gave up all he had in heaven to become a man and to die on the cross for me, because he loves me. His teachings are an outpouring of who he is, so of course I love his teachings. But if I express my love for him it is personal not philosophical.

 

:iagree: Yes, this.

[Sputterduck]

I do know this, if I ask God for a fish and He gives me a snake. It is only because I would have choked on a bone, but can withstand the venom.

 

I agree with Specialmama, this is very beautifully said.

 

And sometimes, I'm angry that I got a snake. Sometimes my emotions are very volatile over a snake. But so many times I've looked back and realized, "Oh my... I would have choked so bad on that fish bone." After enough of those times, I do seriously trust in God, and love Him veeeery much for who He is.

[Liz CA]

Yes, this is so true and so difficult to internalize. Who would willingly go through fire just to be more refined on the other end? It takes a lot strength, humiliation and faith to do this. Christ knows this so He lets things happen that force us down this path.

[Liz CA]

This is how I understand this: We know what is good and not good, so does God. Sometimes he allows the tough things to come to give us a chance to deepen our relationship with Him, to hone our character and give us a new perspective on what is important, a course correction so to speak.

[CanaryMelody]

But I couldn't say, "I love you" -- unless, maybe, I'm saying it in another way by serving Him, by obeying Him, by submitting to Him, by seeking His will.

 

There's the stereotype of the male who can't utter the words "I love you." Maybe I'm a female who has that problem with God? I don't know.

 

Maybe it goes back to the way we best express our love language?

 

I have a hard time saying "I love Jesus" for many of the same reasons as pps. But serving Him is something I easily and readily do to show my love. I'm not very demonstrative, either. Yet I know some brothers and sisters in Christ who sing at the top of their lungs and wave the hands in the air singing out their love. Could it be that we are all created differently in how we show our love for Him? Some of us worship through words, others through service, etc? Just thinking out loud here...

[Mommy22alyns]

That sounds so nice. I don't get it at all, though. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't know...I trusted a path I thought God was leading me down, but it didn't turn out well. It just shattered my understanding of trusting in God. It's in the aftermath of that that I don't really "get it" in saying God is faithful or that He loves me.

 

And lest anyone think I'm totally myopic, I "project" this can't-trust-God interpretation onto other situations of other people; when Steven Curtis Chapman's adopted daughter died in that accident, for example. He did this wonderful, loving and godly thing adopting that little girl, but it ended in tragedy, although I think SCC does not have my issues and probably hasn't faltered because of it.

 

 

Oh my gosh, you are in my head! :grouphug: So clearly I have no advice, but I'll go back and read the thread.

[Sputterduck]

Maybe it goes back to the way we best express our love language?

 

I have a hard time saying "I love Jesus" for many of the same reasons as pps. But serving Him is something I easily and readily do to show my love. I'm not very demonstrative, either. Yet I know some brothers and sisters in Christ who sing at the top of their lungs and wave the hands in the air singing out their love. Could it be that we are all created differently in how we show our love for Him? Some of us worship through words, others through service, etc? Just thinking out loud here...

 

That makes sense. I am not very demonstrative either. It doesn't mean I love God any less when I don't wave my arms and sing loudly. It just means that I'm not comfortable with emotions around people, and that I'm very conservative with my movements in public. That's just who I am. My love doesn't come loudly in front of a crowd, but it runs deeper than anything else I've ever experienced.