Should I send this to my sister? Moms-of-many be honest!

[Plink]

For the record, this thread was NOT about how many kids to have but about how to say no to long-term babysitting.

Deleted after getting the answers I needed.

Thanks for setting me straight! I needed that :)

Edited May 4, 2011 by LibertyH

[Aubrey]

I don't think I'd send the letter. Instead, can you ask her what her childcare plans are for the 2-week travel? It's possible that she's not counting on you being available & has already lined someone up.

 

If it turns out she *is* counting on you, maybe you could say something like, "I'd love to come & check on how things are going, but I'm afraid that would be more kids than I can handle for that long a stretch. Have you considered hiring someone/splitting them up/something else?"

 

That way, it's addressed before the last minute, & if she's not counting on you, you don't ever have to worry about how you come across when you say no.

[Starr]

Can't you just tell her?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think I'd send the letter. Instead, can you ask her what her childcare plans are for the 2-week travel? It's possible that she's not counting on you being available & has already lined someone up.

 

If it turns out she *is* counting on you, maybe you could say something like, "I'd love to come & check on how things are going, but I'm afraid that would be more kids than I can handle for that long a stretch. Have you considered hiring someone/splitting them up/something else?"

 

That way, it's addressed before the last minute, & if she's not counting on you, you don't ever have to worry about how you come across when you say no.

 

:iagree: Not that I'm a mom of many but if I got a letter like that I'd be rather put out by the assumption.

[Plink]

.

[FlyingMOm]

I don't think I'd send the letter worded the way you have it.

 

I might send her a chatty email & in there ask her who she's got planned to watch the kids. THEN, if she responds that she was hoping you would, I would tell her that it's a no-can-do situation.

[Jennifer3141]

She does have other family in the area, but she is obviously counting on my being available to handle most of the childcare.

 

I've tried to talk to her about it, but in the heat of the moment I always end up somehow saying how much I enjoy her children. Which is true, but not helpful to articulating my point.

 

I told you I'm a wimp.

 

 

If she has made it seem like she does expect you to do the bulk of the childcare for two weeks, then yes, I would send her an email now telling her that I could/would not do it.

 

I'm with you. I think moms of any number of kids are awesome but there's no way on the planet I would ever take on that number of kids in those age groups for WEEKS. Ack!

Give me nine pleasant, 17 year olds and we can talk. ;)

[Aubrey]

She does have other family in the area, but she is obviously counting on my being available to handle most of the childcare.

 

I've tried to talk to her about it, but in the heat of the moment I always end up somehow saying how much I enjoy her children. Which is true, but not helpful to articulating my point.

 

I told you I'm a wimp.

 

I only have 4dc, & I"d never assume someone would take all 4 of them--I *know* that's too many for a lot of people, esp if they have kids of their own. And that's just for a few hours. Two weeks? Surely she's not really "counting" on you.

 

Just out of curiosity...how do you know she's "obviously" counting on you being available?

 

Another option: if you're okay w/ keeping one or two, say that--"I just wanted to let you know I'd love to keep one or two of your guys while you're in Some Other Country. I was wondering if you'd thought about childcare while you're away or which ones you might like me to take."

 

It's direct. It gets the conversation started. It indicates that you want to help, to a point. You could even add, "So do you think Mom & Dad (or whoever) are going to take a couple, too? Maybe we could plan something together one weekend before you get back."

 

Just like she's (maybe) assuming you'll take them all, you've now conveyed the assumption she'll be taking some of them elsewhere. :)

[BakersDozen]

Another option: if you're okay w/ keeping one or two, say that--"I just wanted to let you know I'd love to keep one or two of your guys while you're in Some Other Country. I was wondering if you'd thought about childcare while you're away or which ones you might like me to take."

 

 

:iagree:

[EJCMom]

If you are able to take a couple, but not all, I would word it in the positive. As in, "I wanted to offer to take two of the kids while you're in Some Faraway Land. Let me know which two of the kids you'd like me to take so that we can plan something fun while they're here." That way, instead of looking (and feeling) like you're somehow letting her down, it's phrased in a way that you're offering to help.

[Janie Grace]

No, I would not send that... to much potential for hurt feelings. It's a talk I'd have face-to-face, though -- so I could go back to sleeping at night! I'd just initiate a talk about the adoption details. I'm sure she's excited and loves to talk about it. And then, in that conversation, you can ask about her plans for childcare. That gives you the window into sharing (graciously, affectionately, honestly) that you do not feel up to caring for all of them for that length of time.

 

OR -- could you wade into this by taking the initiative to keep SOME of them? You could say something like "wish I could have them all, but realistically, I think I could handle xyz..."

 

ETA: Sorry, didn't read the posts suggesting the same thing (taking some)! Didn't mean to be redundant.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Janie Grace

[SweetMissMagnolia]

I might send her a chatty email & in there ask her who she's got planned to watch the kids. THEN, if she responds that she was hoping you would, I would tell her that it's a no-can-do situation.

 

I would either talk to her about it once she's "back on her feet" after the new baby or send an email as the post above if you two do that alot already......I don't blame you LOL......oh my! :001_huh:

[LibraryLover]

That's a premature and provocative post, and letter.

 

You write that she is, "Thinking about international adoption"

 

Do you know how long international adoption takes? How long do you want the hard feelings to last between the two of you, and how soon do you want the drama to begin? :tongue_smilie:

Edited May 4, 2011 by LibraryLover

[beccad777]

When we go away overnight we always split the kids up. Usually boys go to my in laws and girls go to my SIL (cause she has 2 girls already). This works out well. I would have to be very desperate to foist all 4 or 5 (I usually take the baby with me because I am nursing.) on one person/family. It's not as big a deal to me to watch all 5 all the time, but for people who are not used to it, it's a lot! And for you to add 5 kids to the mix when you already have several of your own? That's too much for any one person for 2+ weeks!

 

I would not send that email, but I would send a short email/text as to what her plans are for the kids while she's gone. Then you can think about her reply before you have to say anything. Good luck! :001_smile:

[Plink]

.

[HS Mom in NC]

No, it's not your job to watch the kids-especially is you don't want to. Ask her if you can help with things you are willing to do (be very specific) and if she lists something you aren't willing to do say, "Oh, sorry I can't. But I could _________________________." Keep repeating if she pushes for more, but honey, you may have to tell her the truth straight out. "I just don't have it in me to do that long a stretch with your kids. Sorry."

 

Now onto the big issue:

 

I'm the parent of an international adoptee. What country on the globe changed its policies (since 2004) to allow a family with more than 4 children already to adopt?

 

I know your sister might not be giving you the details on her motivation to adopt, but if she really IS deciding on adopting so her oldest won't be the only kid not genetically related to her husband SHE SHOULD NOT ADOPT! NO WAY! If she's got a good agency they will toss that application right in the trash where it belongs. Too many agencies are not very ethical in screening applicants for this kind of nonsense. I assume if it's different than (as opposed to a variation on) this, you would have been able to point it out.

 

Sorry to be so harsh about it, but better that she feel the sting of hearing the truth that her motivations are simply wrong than allow some poor child to be in her family to make the oldest feel some other emotion than she thinks (s)he is feeling now. What if it doesn't work? And so what if it does? It's not a child's job to fill an emotional gap for another child. I have sat and listened to or read hundreds of adult adoptee accounts and those that have been used as political statements (pro-life) or emotional supplements in various ways always figure it out and resent it. Our agency spends 6 hours interviewing couples screening for this kind of thing because it happens often.

 

Adoptees are not tools. They are not here to give anyone any particular feeling. International adoption is ONLY for people who want to grow their families and meet the needs of the adoptee, which are more than the needs of a typical biological child. If you are looking for getting anything as opposed to giving ADOPTION IS NOT FOR YOU.

 

The first year transition can be incredibly challenging. We were told to expect at least a year before things were normal again-if we were lucky. There are all sorts of identity related issues and attachment issues involved. There is a problem with ignorant international adoption right now. Too many people are not looking into the serious issues that can be involved and they have fairy tale ideas about seamlessly folding some kid into a new situation. Please tell her to look into attachment issues (even in babies-mine was 7 months old) explained by a licensed Attachment Therapist experienced in international adoption before she decides to start the process.

[Plink]

That's a premature and provocative post, and letter.

 

You write that she is, "Thinking about international adoption"

 

Do you know how long international adoption takes? How long do you want the hard feelings to last between the two of you, and how soon do you want the drama to begin? :tongue_smilie:

 

Yeah, I know it is - that's why I posted it here so you guys could put me on the right path ;)

 

She is in the midst of classes and lots and lots and lots of paperwork, so the words "thinking about international adoption" are a bit misleading. They are planning on it, but you are right, it could take quite a while.

 

I think I'm worked up about this because I've had all 8 kids for 2 overnights this week and I'm realizing just how hard it would be. I don't want to provoke her, but at the same time, I don't want to surprise her with needing to find childcare she would be comfortable with outside of our family. To date, the kids have only come as a package deal and they have only stayed with family (other than the oldest going to boyscout camp for a weekend).

 

Honestly, my intent is to help her plan, not to hurt her feelings or create unnecessary drama.

 

Thanks for the reality check! I need to talk to her. Drat! This is going to be hard on my wimpy self.

[Plink]

I'm the parent of an international adoptee. What country on the globe changed its policies (since 2004) to allow a family with more than 4 children already to adopt?

 

I believe she mentioned Belarus and a few others are options right now

 

I know your sister might not be giving you the details on her motivation to adopt, but if she really IS deciding on adopting so her oldest won't be the only kid not genetically related to her husband SHE SHOULD NOT ADOPT!

I hear you, and I really should have left that sentence out. Her reasons are many (many of which I'm not even aware of I'm sure), and that was only the initial reason that they thought about adoption years ago. Sorry for making her sound like a dirtbag - she isn't I promise.

[Janie Grace]

 

Thanks for the reality check! I need to talk to her. Drat! This is going to be hard on my wimpy self.

 

You're a sweet sister. You can do it! Remember, your motivation is a good one -- you don't want to leave her in the lurch. Even if it's hard at first (as she realizes she needs to work a bit to find childcare), it'll be way better in the long run.

[Emmy]

Now onto the big issue:

 

I'm the parent of an international adoptee. What country on the globe changed its policies (since 2004) to allow a family with more than 4 children already to adopt?

 

I know 2 families that have adopted multiple kids in the last 18 months that brought their number of children up to 7 and 8. Both had more than 4 to start. I wonder if a lot has changed in 7 years because it doesn't seem to be a huge deterrent to the adoptive families I know.

[mommaduck]

I would be hurt by such a letter. It almost comes across as critical of her having a large family (passive aggressive). I would just be straight with her verbally.

[hana]

No, it's not your job to watch the kids-especially is you don't want to. Ask her if you can help with things you are willing to do (be very specific) and if she lists something you aren't willing to do say, "Oh, sorry I can't. But I could _________________________." Keep repeating if she pushes for more, but honey, you may have to tell her the truth straight out. "I just don't have it in me to do that long a stretch with your kids. Sorry."

 

Now onto the big issue:

 

I'm the parent of an international adoptee. What country on the globe changed its policies (since 2004) to allow a family with more than 4 children already to adopt?

 

I know your sister might not be giving you the details on her motivation to adopt, but if she really IS deciding on adopting so her oldest won't be the only kid not genetically related to her husband SHE SHOULD NOT ADOPT! NO WAY! If she's got a good agency they will toss that application right in the trash where it belongs. Too many agencies are not very ethical in screening applicants for this kind of nonsense. I assume if it's different than (as opposed to a variation on) this, you would have been able to point it out.

 

Sorry to be so harsh about it, but better that she feel the sting of hearing the truth that her motivations are simply wrong than allow some poor child to be in her family to make the oldest feel some other emotion than she thinks (s)he is feeling now. What if it doesn't work? And so what if it does? It's not a child's job to fill an emotional gap for another child. I have sat and listened to or read hundreds of adult adoptee accounts and those that have been used as political statements (pro-life) or emotional supplements in various ways always figure it out and resent it. Our agency spends 6 hours interviewing couples screening for this kind of thing because it happens often.

 

Adoptees are not tools. They are not here to give anyone any particular feeling. International adoption is ONLY for people who want to grow their families and meet the needs of the adoptee, which are more than the needs of a typical biological child. If you are looking for getting anything as opposed to giving ADOPTION IS NOT FOR YOU.

 

The first year transition can be incredibly challenging. We were told to expect at least a year before things were normal again-if we were lucky. There are all sorts of identity related issues and attachment issues involved. There is a problem with ignorant international adoption right now. Too many people are not looking into the serious issues that can be involved and they have fairy tale ideas about seamlessly folding some kid into a new situation. Please tell her to look into attachment issues (even in babies-mine was 7 months old) explained by a licensed Attachment Therapist experienced in international adoption before she decides to start the process.

 

Wow. Some of this is really offensive.

 

I know several countries have family size requirements, but I have friends with large families who have adopted from Ethiopia, Vietnam, and China.

 

I started to write more, but I was going to be too heated.

 

To the OP, I wish you luck making your abilities and choices regarding caring for her children clear, and I wish your sister luck with her quickly growing family!

[Aubrey]

You're right - I don't "know" anything, but recent conversations have hinted at it, and I'm her only non-working relative or friend in the area. In addition, she has recently started repeating how much easier (LOL) it is to have our kids together. "They just play so nicely, it is like a vacation!" But again, I don't "know" anything for sure and I need to put on my big girl panties and ask directly.

 

This suggests that the overnights have been at your house, not hers. I'd correct this line of thinking. I'm not confrontational or direct, so I'm not sure what this is worth, but I think I'd laugh (loudly--maybe a little maniacally--not "pretending"--this is really how that comment would make me feel), & say something like, "A vacation like that might drive me to drinking." Or: "Lucky you! When you're done w/ your adoption, life will be like one big vacation!" Or: "Oh, good--your turn next!" You & your dh go on your def of vacation while she has hers. ;)

[Plink]

I would be hurt by such a letter. It almost comes across as critical of her having a large family (passive aggressive). I would just be straight with her verbally.

 

Ooh - certainly NOT at all what I want to convey. Thanks for your honesty!

 

Okay ladies, you have convinced me. I will not send it. I promise. :auto:Headed to the top of this thread to delete it now :auto:

 

I will talk to her and offer to take some of them, and to help coordinate care for the others.

 

Feeling better already.

[Starr]

I would be worried about her other plans for the kids not working out at the last minute. You are going to have to be very clear about what you are going to do or take them all cheerfully. I'm not sure offering to take some is specific enough. She seems to be counting on you quite a bit.

[Murphy101]

What you need to do is tell her point blank that you just don't cope as smoothly as she does with having them ALL to watch at once because you haven't had years of practice to adjust. This isn't about her. This isn't about her kids.

 

This is about you. And that is perfectly fine and legitimate reason enough.

 

9 kids is easy - when you have adjusted to having them one at a time over years.

 

9 kids suddenly and constantly = no adjustment and it takes a lot of learning curve that you haven't traveled over.

 

Any mother of many should understand this and not be upset by it. It isn't some new profound insight. It's not insulting to you or her. It's just the way things naturally go in life.

 

So just tell her that is the reason you can't watch them all for her for an extended time frame.

 

And two over nights in one week is a lot. If you wanted to, then that is certainly great, but you shouldn't feel like you HAVE to do it or your relationship will be ruined. If your relationship isn't better an that ... Well then you need to have a whole other discussion with her then.

 

I think its great that you are willing to watch them all occasionally. Personally, I thunk that is a more important. It's a huge load off the mind to know that in an emergency a mom of many has someone she can call and trust with all her kids if necessary. Most don't have that peace of mind.

[Plink]

Martha, your words are so kind. Thank you! The two overnights were done willingly and were planned in advance. I love those kids! It is like having an insta-party!

 

OTOH, it was eye-opening as to my own limitations.

 

I am not concerned about my relationship with her, but I am concerned about saying it right and being as kind as possible.

 

So this is what you have all taught me: I need to speak up, offer what I can, and be honest and very clear about what I can't do.

 

You know what? I think that having this conversation with her is bothering me so much because I WANT to be able to seamlessly and effortlessly handle them all for her. I want to take just this one thing off of her plate for a couple of weeks, but that sadly isn't something I am capable of doing. I am disappointed in myself, but reality is reality.

[Aubrey]

Martha, your words are so kind. Thank you! The two overnights were done willingly and were planned in advance. I love those kids! It is like having an insta-party!

 

*This* is amazing. I wish you were my sister!

 

OTOH, it was eye-opening as to my own limitations.

 

I am not concerned about my relationship with her, but I am concerned about saying it right and being as kind as possible.

 

So this is what you have all taught me: I need to speak up, offer what I can, and be honest and very clear about what I can't do.

 

You know what? I think that having this conversation with her is bothering me so much because I WANT to be able to seamlessly and effortlessly handle them all for her. I want to take just this one thing off of her plate for a couple of weeks, but that sadly isn't something I am capable of doing. I am disappointed in myself, but reality is reality.

 

DON'T feel bad. There's an assumption that if you have a few kids, you must LIKE kids. You must be GOOD WITH kids. And so people like to ask you to watch their kids, work in the nursery, etc.

 

Me? I can handle kids fine, under certain circumstances, but I'd really rather not. I'd *strongly* rather not. My point? Just because I can handle MY four doesn't mean I *can* or *want* to handle anyone else's four. I think four kids who aren't your own is a LOT to handle.

 

Not everyone feels this way, but I want you to know that (I think) plenty of moms do. The ones who tend to think an extra kid is no big deal are the ones who only have one or two.

 

I had a friend w/ one kid who insisted she wanted to trade babysitting so we could ea have a night out every mo. She babysat 2-3 kids at a time during the day & was sure this would be no different. We watched hers--a sweet kid who's being raised just enough differently from ours that, yeah, it was a little exhausting. Not bad at all, but not like a usual night at home, kwim?

 

Then she & her dh watched ours. The funny thing is, they were the most worn out by my oldest--theirs was 2--ds was 6 or 7 at the time. They weren't used to all the questions & conversations. They were mentally exhausted, lol, & not surprisingly, they did not suggest that we do it again next mo.

 

Different people can handle different things. It's *completely* more than ok.

[QueenCat]

If you are able to take a couple, but not all, I would word it in the positive. As in, "I wanted to offer to take two of the kids while you're in Some Faraway Land. Let me know which two of the kids you'd like me to take so that we can plan something fun while they're here." That way, instead of looking (and feeling) like you're somehow letting her down, it's phrased in a way that you're offering to help.

 

 

:iagree: Excellent suggestion

[Ginevra]

Me? I can handle kids fine, under certain circumstances, but I'd really rather not. I'd *strongly* rather not. My point? Just because I can handle MY four doesn't mean I *can* or *want* to handle anyone else's four. I think four kids who aren't your own is a LOT to handle.

 

Not everyone feels this way, but I want you to know that (I think) plenty of moms do. The ones who tend to think an extra kid is no big deal are the ones who only have one or two.

:iagree: I love children, but mostly just the three who live at my house! :tongue_smilie:

 

Incidentally, a friend of mine seemed to want to establish one of those "let's trade over-nights every month!" She had my 3 over...and I never reciprocated! I kinda meant to at first, but honestly it's not worth it to me. :tongue_smilie: If I need a night alone with dh that badly, there's always Grandma. I'm not really a "kid" person. I love devoting time to my own, but that's all the kid-input I can really embrace at any given time.

[HS Mom in NC]

hana

 

Yes, in our PC world it probably does feel offensive to people, but the issue is far too important because the consequences are devastating. It is perfectly appropriate to match earth shattering consequences with hard cold, blunt, and passionate warnings. If more people and agencies would, it would be a better world.

 

If you had listened to adoptees in such situations, in person, tearfully telling their stories and listened to attachment therapists addressing these issues specifically, you would better understand the incredibly strong reaction. Someone has to speak for the voiceless-many an adoption agency has failed to do so by failing to do scrupulous background checks covering these issues in depth. Adoption should never be about adoptees being used to fill the emotional needs of others-ever. Anyone motivated that way is categorically unfit to be an adoptive parent. If you think it is an appropriate motivation to adopt to fill an emotional need in a parent or another child, I would be very interested in listening to you quote an adoptee, attachment therapist, or research that agrees based on personal experience.

[mommaduck]

hana

 

Yes, in our PC world it probably does feel offensive to people, but the issue is far too important because the consequences are devastating. It is perfectly appropriate to match earth shattering consequences with hard cold, blunt, and passionate warnings. If more people and agencies would, it would be a better world.

 

If you had listened to adoptees in such situations, in person, tearfully telling their stories and listened to attachment therapists addressing these issues specifically, you would better understand the incredibly strong reaction. Someone has to speak for the voiceless-many an adoption agency has failed to do so by failing to do scrupulous background checks covering these issues in depth. Adoption should never be about adoptees being used to fill the emotional needs of others-ever. Anyone motivated that way is categorically unfit to be an adoptive parent. If you think it is an appropriate motivation to adopt to fill an emotional need in a parent or another child, I would be very interested in listening to you quote an adoptee, attachment therapist, or research that agrees based on personal experience.

 

It is a hard truth. Thank you for bringing it up.