Oh my goodness! Does anyone use the Sandi Queen material? sm

[BarbinTN]

I visited this website in days gone by but there were no samples so I kept on sailing by. However, with all the great samples I am rethinking EVERYTHING I thought I had settled on!

 

What do you use if anything from her and what do you think of it?

 

Thanks,

Barb

[Lovedtodeath]

I am planning to use Spelling through Copywork and Language Lessons for Little Ones for first grade. I am curious too, because there was a lot of talk about Simply Spelling but none about Spelling through Copywork.

[BarbinTN]

Oooooh, I like it! So, you right the list words and 1 sentence each day?

[Sue G in PA]

Okay, I just HAD to look, didn't I? Somebody remind that curiosity killed the cat? So, I had just about decided on PLL and ILL and even purchased used copies of it. Not a ton of money, but enough. So, now I had to go and look at Queen's material. It just looks so awesome! I want to get the first book for my ds5, the next one for ds7 and who knows what for ds8 and ds10. Can anyone review these books? Can anyone recommend a good starting point for an older child, say an 8yo, 10yo and 11yo (who has done R&S5 this year with ease?). Oh ugh. I'm so torn now. Continue dd11 with R&S which she does like. Perhaps supplement with Queen's? And then there is ds10 who used GWG. Continue on the path he is on? Switch? Ds8 has not had formal grammar but I was planning R&S3 for next year. I planned PLL for ds6 but now I see Queen's and I like it even better! Oh help and bother!

[Christine]

I just looked at Queen's stuff at the convention. . . I didn't like it.

 

I looked at the copywork for little boys. I didn't like the language, I didn't like the places she chose to cut off (she did two lines of type, two lines for copywork, and so on throughout the page -- so you were frequently being "cut off" mid sentence), I didn't like the "font".

 

I asked a couple of friends I was with, and they didn't like it either (and I didn't say why I didn't like it before I asked, but they had the same issues -- except the font).

 

We all liked George Washington's rules of etiquette that we found somewhere else, though. . .(it wasn't a copywork book, just a little red "text") but I found that language "easier"? Or maybe it's because it wasn't cut off by lines? I don't know.

 

However, those were just my thoughts. I know I had looked at the website earlier this past week (before the convention -- which is why I looked there) and I was very excited. . .For me, it didn't quite cut it upon closer examination.

[Peela]

I am using book 1 of LL for the Secondary child for my ds12, and the Highschool book for my dd13.

They are VERY light. If you were using R&S, you might not be the sort of person who would want to use Queens, IYKWIM. They're not really comparable in terms of rigour.

I decided to use them and I like them for now..but my dd is also doing Analytical Grammar, and my ds will a bit later too.

They are lovely, there are beautiful pictures (only 6 per book though at these levels), everything is set out for copywork, dictation, the Secondary book has light grammar (the highschool book has none). Both have writing exercises- narrations. The Highschool book has a year long creative writing course, which my dd enjoys a lot.

Let me emphasise that these are light. About 10 minutes work a day, even at the higher levels, apart from the creative writing my daughter chooses to spend longer on. With the Secondary book, each day, something different, one exercise, cycling between copywork, dictation, grammar, poetry appreciation, narrations, art appreciation.

Right now, I am good with that....because I am focusing on other things, on written narrations, outlining, on increasing our reading quantity, on editing, on essay writing for my older. The fact the Queens books are light means I can add other things easily. I am trying to keep our hours down.

But, you are not going to get a thorough grammar education from them. They're too light for that. We have already done a lot of grammar, and both will complete AG, so that's not an issue for us.

I would just examine your own goals and see if they are compatible. For me, for now, these books are useful, but I wouldn't use them all the way through because they lack rigour. Great for pick up and go copywork, dictation etc, and it makes sure art appreciation gets done to some extent- but its even a bit too light for that.

Anyway, i hope I haven't put you off. I cant imagine supplementing R&S with anything, but if you did, then Queens could be good for that. I imagine Queens could be good for little ones, too.

I am a curriculum junkie, and in the end, the amount of time I spend looking at programs like this, and then sometimes buying them, I could have easily made up my own copywork, dictation, a few grammar exercises, and some art appreciation- stuff from the books we are reading, too. But, sometimes I need to see and use these programs to realise I could easily do something similar myself. They do save time though, in that sense.

[Susie in MS]

I only have the very first book in the series (so I can't comment on content in the books you are looking at) and I think it is just okay. And $20 for just okay is not money well spent.

 

The first thing that comes to mind is that not one of the back sides of the pages has print. So half of what could be used for lessons is simply blank.

 

I have PLL and ILL and like them way better. They are very cheep, and MUCH more durable.

 

Jessica placed some samples of paragraphs from one of the books she bought on her blog. I though the samples were very tacky. One spoke of pizza being a favorite food, plus the sentences were choppy. Like Jessica, I just don't find that to be very good content. You sorta expect literature selections that have moral lessons, or come from good literature.....pizza???

 

The type set doesn't bother me, but it does some.

 

The one good thing I found was that the pictures were beautiful, however, I don't know if I will be willing to buy much more from Queen again. I think their books would be good supplements, but they are too expensive for what they do provide.

 

Oh and one more thing that bothered me ( but this is just me being persnickety) is they way the pictures have an old era feel to them, but the cover of the wbs have a modern day child on them. From looking at the cover you expect pizza, but looking at the pictures you expect good quality literature selections. It is just sorta mixed up iykwim.

[Lovedtodeath]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25617

 

Here is another thread with a lot more info and another link on it with even more.

 

In the end I decided to get Spelling through Copywork and Language Lessons for Little Ones and spread them out over two years because I intend to do a gentle Charlotte Mason approach which usually would have nothing in either subject until 3rd grade, at which point I am still not doing much grammar until middle school. So it really depends on your goals. If you are sticking to WTM rigorous education in grammar then I would go with FLL and R&S. I still may switch to R&S later depending on how DD learns.

[PeterPan]

We had the same issue Christine did when we tried the copywork for little girls a couple years ago. It might not be as much of an issue with an older dc, but how much copywork do you really want to do at this stage? Are you moving on to dictation? (I got my Queen catalog yesterday, so I was pondering this!) At the convention in March I found a little booklet on growing into womanhood by them that was good. I forget the title and don't have the catalog handy, sorry. Anyways, it was so particularly well-done it made me interested in pursuing any other materials they have in that vein. And I noticed a Bible study notebook they've put together that might be just the thing I've been looking for to take dd's to more than just reading.

[summer]

I think it looks very good too. I am considering trying it for next year.

[stephanie]

Which book would you think that a 6yo (1st) would start with? I looked at LLFVY and LLFLO, but didn't know which one to start with? DD6 is a slow reader, only reading blends now. I'm hoping she will make progress over the summer though. She has not been into reading at all this year for K so we've been taking it slow. I really like Queen's material, but just not sure which to start with?

[Trivium Academy]

Language Lessons for the Very Young is the only one I have and the only one I'll use, with my modifications. Although the concepts behind their products are wonderful, I'm just not sure the quality measures up but there's a problem, there are not many comparable products. I prefer Primary Language Lessons (2nd/3rd) and Intermediate Language Lessons (4th-6th), we're only using LLFVY for 1st grade.

 

I have no doubt that LLFVY will do a great job for 1st grade. I don't know about the other levels.

[kellycbr]

I've never heard of it. Does anyone have a link? Thanks.

[stephanie]

Language Lessons for the Very Young is the only one I have and the only one I'll use, with my modifications. Although the concepts behind their products are wonderful, I'm just not sure the quality measures up but there's a problem, there are not many comparable products. I prefer Primary Language Lessons (2nd/3rd) and Intermediate Language Lessons (4th-6th), we're only using LLFVY for 1st grade.

 

I have no doubt that LLFVY will do a great job for 1st grade. I don't know about the other levels.

 

Thanks, Jessica!

[Stacia]

I looked at the Queen copywork books at a curriculum fair the other week. They seemed rather flimsy & not that well done for what you are getting. (I'm not sure if you're even asking about these particular books, but I figured I would post anyway.) Also, I didn't like the feel of the paper. Don't remember the font in particular, though I'm thinking it looked kind of squished together & almost too heavy (like too much ink coverage). Someone else already mentioned how the selections are split apart too.

 

A couple of other options to consider:

 

For copywork of some of George Washington's Rules of Civility, there is Handwriting by George (link is to Rainbow Resource). We did this last year & it was quite fun. My dd really enjoyed it.

 

And, I just bought Spelling Wisdom (from Simply Charlotte Mason) at the curriculum fair. It looks awesome, imo. I'll be using it for copywork, dictation, and spelling.

[BarbinTN]

I actually am quite relieved to hear all this! I am of course always seeking the best, the easiest etc. For the first time I have $$ to buy books and am unclear what I'm doing:o(

Thanks for the great detailed response ladies!

Barb

[LadyAberlin]

I bought llflo vol 2 used and my ds didn't like them and I wasn't impressed. I really thought they were overpriced. I sold mine. I think that the sholace books Simply LA looks (at least from the examples) to have more meat to them even though they are black and white. I'm about to order their K-2. I'd look at those instead.

[Lovedtodeath]

http://queenhomeschool.com/bookpage/bookframe.html'>http://queenhomeschool.com/bookpage/bookframe.html'>http://queenhomeschool.com/bookpage/bookframe.html'>http://queenhomeschool.com/bookpage/bookframe.html Language Lessons

 

http://queenhomeschool.com/bookpage/bookframe.html Spelling through Copywork

 

LLfLO focuses on phonics with no grammar, whereas LLfVY focuses on grammar, with no phonics. I plan to introduce grammar with Writing Tales, so that is why I chose LLfLO. HTH

 

Thanks for the alternatives Stacia, I am looking into those. I gave you rep, but couldn't sign it.

[chiguirre]

Which book would you think that a 6yo (1st) would start with? I looked at LLFVY and LLFLO, but didn't know which one to start with? DD6 is a slow reader, only reading blends now. I'm hoping she will make progress over the summer though. She has not been into reading at all this year for K so we've been taking it slow. I really like Queen's material, but just not sure which to start with?

 

I like LLFLO, but its reading instruction is minimal, confusing and probably should just be skipped. That sounds sooo harsh, but IMHO, the phonics in these books is basically useless. What LLFLO does do well is poetry and picture studies and beginning narration. It's not a complete language arts book and it's weakest in phonics instruction. If you use a book lower than your child's reading level (LLFLO 2 for 1st grade, for example) the reading and copywork is fine for review. I feel like I've gotten my $20 worth for the things Queen's does well and I just skim or skip over the weaker areas, but YMMV depending on your budget and your comfort level putting together your own stuff.

[5Youngs]

We use several of her books last year.

First of all, this is a Charlotte Mason-type curriculum, not drill and lists.

(If that's what you are wanting, you'll hate these products.)

My 4yo is using:

 

Teach your child to read in 100 easy lessons (for phonics)

with

Language lesson for the very young vol. 1

 

It's $20, contains picture study, writing practice (w/o being contained between two lines, IMO perfect for beginning writers), narration, poetry, drawing or coloring a picture to go along with a verse or poem. It's light, but makes it's point and then it's over; perfect for this stage of learning.

 

I loved it, and so did my son.

We also added letter practice on the magnadoodle and chalkboard, bc he doesn't like writing on paper much. ;)

I will be continuing this series until 3rd grade for my 4yo.

 

My 3rd grade son used:

Language lessons for the elementary child

Spelling through copywork bk A

Copywork for little boys

 

He liked it, he is my twaddle-free schooler.

If it's just busy work, he will see through that and not want to do it.

He liked the LL, it was a brief overview, not an intense study.

Spelling through copywork was perfect for this stage, IMO.

Copywork was quality verse, short passages, but it did contain some errors, that we corrected.

I have found errors in half of the programs that I've used, but Sandi Queen actually emailed me back, wanted to know where they were so they could be fixed. NOT ONE of the other curriculums has even acted like they cared.

(Just so you know, he read the Hobbit, all 7 Narnia books several times, and comprehends KJV verses and just started Saxon 54.)

I feel that this was plenty for him this year.

 

My 5th grade son used:

Language Lessons for the Elem child bk 2

Spelling through copywork bk B

Copywork for boys

 

I found this LA book a little light for a 5th grader. He is very creative, so the picture study spurred on several 5+ page stories that he wanted to write, so we made it work for us. (which is the case with any curriculum)

It is a basic overview, not a rule book. I would recommend using it with Easy Grammar.

Spelling bk B was fine for the year, we did most of the testing aloud, if they could spell it right the 1st time aloud, we moved on to the next lesson, if not, we worked on those sentences again.

Copywork was sublime. Her choice of verses were useful and quality.

Overall, I like her products, and her philosophy.

 

This is a small home business, and the quality of the books is super, considering that. Her heart is in these books, and our experience was positive.

 

We also used Learning How to Learn and Bk 2 God's Plan for growing up.

I would recommend both. There is no 'Revolutionary' info in either, but they served their purpose, which is all I expected.

 

Hope this helps someone~

Dawanna

[4wildberrys]

I also found this site recently and was intrigued. So I ordered 2 of the LL books for the older kids for mine---and I LOVE them!!!! It is exactly the supplement I wanted. A catalog came with my order----and WOW!! I love what they offer---so much so that I placed an even larger order for some of the study guides for science and some of the read alouds for science. For a family business, I find the printing and quality very good. The books are actually reprints of very old books---and I find them charming and very interesting. They have packages for different levels with all kinds of goodies. I can't imagine that these would suffice for a complete curriculum for my kids---but they are wonderful CM supplement that I plan on using. :001_smile:

[...................]

I have LLVY VOl 1 and LLfor LItte ones VOl3

 

In my opinion, LLVY would be okay for first grade. It looks just about right for first grade.

 

However most of the programs, to me, do not seem rigorous enough to stand alone. I am *very* open to a CM mindset, and after Timberdoole gave Queen's a glowing endoresement, I am even more convinced that it's a good philosophy and that Queen's is a great program.

 

*However* don't feel like it's enough. Though I am naturally inclined toward LA, writing, and Grammar was my favorite subject in school (diagramming and all!!), I still know that repetition and practice helped me be *even better* than I would have been on my own.

 

Especially for middle school and high school I cannot imagine these materials being enough to prepare a child for a university bound education.

 

I think we all read and agree with most of what The Well Trained Mind says regarding the effectiveness of thorough instruction in the basics. In my mind, the Queen's books are lovely, sweet book but they just do not deliver a Classical education, and are not rigorous enough to be the main LA component in a Classical education.

 

HOWEVER- *I* am not bothered by the font. My son likes the look of the book and the font style and size.

 

AND- I really think these are *perfect* books to go alongside traditional grammar programs for the Classical mommies among us. If you choose Rod and Staff or Voyages in English or Analytical Grammar you then have to add poetry, copywork, picture study and discussion. But I think a perfect combination would be to use a traditional grammar text alongside the Queen's LL, which are so do-able and fast, that they will not cause groaning in most kids.

 

One problem I had with the books was the layout. 1/4 of all the lessons start on one page and end on another. So for me to take the book apart and put it in my little guy's binder was a royal pain. I had to cut and staple the pages so that lessons stayed together. I don't see why they didn't add 10 extra sheets of paper in order to make sure that all lessons ended on the same page they began with. Perforation also would have been nice.

 

Anyway, obviously I learned my lesson and just won't bother to take the book apart. My son will just have to carry the extra weight in his backpack when we go out somewhere, that's all.

 

I think most moms that used only this, would end up playing catch up later on.

 

However one more thought- Queen's offers, the LL, the Spelling Through COpywork and the Copywork Books by theme-so I wonder if your child was doing all three they would be getting so much copywork and LA that perhaps it would be enough?

 

Still- it's a different style and scope than most university bound students and the chance of missing something pretty big seems high to me.

[Trivium Academy]

How big is the type in the reprinted old books? I've been curious about this.

[jubilee]

I've never heard of it. Does anyone have a link? Thanks.

 

Queen Homeschool Supplies

[Hazelt"nut"]

I have LLVY Vol.one and LLLO. My four year old will do the LLLO and this will be along with ETC the early books.

 

My first grader is going to do FLL but I plan to use the Queens picture study instead of the black and white ones in FLL. I like that they are beautiful artwork. I will also use some of the story starters in Queens with my first grader. She loves the idea of that. I am going to get WWE and hopefully incorporate that. I am always pulled between the more rigorous and the more gentle approaches. I look forward to using the QUeen material along with our other choices. I think having a change of pace will be nice and refreshing. Anything gets boring and mundane after awhile. Oh I don't like the font of the letters for the copywork...they just don't look like the way I'm teaching my kids to write manuscript but maybe they have some special name or somthing.

 

Sheryl

[swellmomma]

The question should be what do I not use, we use the copywork books (currently for little girls and little boys, next year the next level up), math copywork, spelling through copy work and language lessons for little ones. I really like the materials, the kids often as for more to do. My kids are not ready for dictation just yet, so the copywork to improve penmanship is wonderful(and fun if you ask them).

[Georgia]

This looked quite nice, with the pictures and all, and would suffice for reinforcing spelling. Has anyone seen these?

[reservejagmom]

We've used the Beautiful America copywork book this year for learning to use the keyboard and geography/mapwork. I've had my ds, age 11/5th grade type out each paragraph for each state on the keyboard, then I printed out the state maps from the Uncle Josh's Maps cd and had him locate the places and fill in the blank maps by hand.

 

He started out typing just one paragraph per day and doing the mapwork separately but as his skill increased he's now completing all three for each state and finishing the mapwork at the same time. Up until this year his fine motor skills were still very delayed so this has been a huge leap forward for him!

 

OTOH, I also ordered a couple of the ancients books for him (A Triumph for Flavius, etc) and the corresponding study guides and he hated them. :glare:

 

I also use the LL for the Elementary Child, vol 2 -- the lessons are very easy and short and we do a bunch at the same time. I have a separate diagramming book. Next year, though, I'll be using Analytical Grammar -- btw the Queens consider diagramming "twaddle".

 

HTH,

 

Carol

[teraberry]

Today I first saw the Queen Homeschool books at our Convention. I loved what I saw. I have three children and are using Rod and Staff for English and Spelling Workout. Although I love those, neither give all the writing practice I'm wanting. I bought a couple of the Queen's Bible studies for kids as well as Copywork books. I think it is the perfect supplement and was just what I was looking for. The Bible studies were done by Michelle Zoppa and are great for elementary age kids to have their own "quiet time". They look up short passages and answer some thought-provoking questions. It is all concise and simple, but Scripture is handled logically and meaningfully.

 

I must say too that I met Mr. Queen and he was such a genuinely nice guy. He was so kind and personable, polite and considerate. I was impressed with him as a person right away. Then I came home and did some looking around on their website and saw that they have a young boy in remission from cancer, and the wife, Sandi, also is recovering from cancer. That just made me all the more impressed with them as people. They surely have gone through a lot, and seem to be so God-focused. Great people!

[Aletheia Academy]

I ordered from Queen earlier in the spring. The Material Worlds geography resource is simply wonderful. Each two-page spread features a family from a country somewhere around the globe with every item they own displayed outside their domicile- whatever that may be. There also is provided statistical information about the avg income, hours worked, $ spent on food, etc. It is an eye-opener, and a resource that can be used all through the schooling years.

 

On the copybooks, they look good to me, but I wish there were more font options; I would be eager to try one of the copybooks for Italics. I emailed Sandi Queen and she explained that the reason for this is because the copybooks are intended to teach grammar and are not intended for handwriting practice. I'm not sure how Charlotte Mason-y that approach is- it seems to conflict with information I've read elsewhere (that indicates copywork *is* for hw practice), but I'm no experts. Anyway, I do want copybooks for handwriting practice, and I liked the samples I saw, so I was disappointed about that.

 

I bought a few of the Jean Henri Fabre nature readers. They are beautiful, and I can't wait to dig in when school begins.

 

The time to fulfill and ship the order, even during a non-peak time, was somewhat slow...more than 2 weeks. That was OK; I was not in a hurry. But there was a mix-up with one of the items, and I didn't want to pay shipping to return it, so I kept the one I did not order. Sandi Queen was amenable to me keeping the wrong, but more expensive item.

 

My experience was a mixed bag.

 

And the LL books are too light for our family's needs.

[Peela]

However most of the programs, to me, do not seem rigorous enough to stand alone. I am *very* open to a CM mindset, and after Timberdoole gave Queen's a glowing endoresement, I am even more convinced that it's a good philosophy and that Queen's is a great program.

 

*However* don't feel like it's enough. Though I am naturally inclined toward LA, writing, and Grammar was my favorite subject in school (diagramming and all!!), I still know that repetition and practice helped me be *even better* than I would have been on my own.

 

Especially for middle school and high school I cannot imagine these materials being enough to prepare a child for a university bound education.

 

I think we all read and agree with most of what The Well Trained Mind says regarding the effectiveness of thorough instruction in the basics. In my mind, the Queen's books are lovely, sweet book but they just do not deliver a Classical education, and are not rigorous enough to be the main LA component in a Classical education.

 

AND- I really think these are *perfect* books to go alongside traditional grammar programs for the Classical mommies among us. If you choose Rod and Staff or Voyages in English or Analytical Grammar you then have to add poetry, copywork, picture study and discussion. But I think a perfect combination would be to use a traditional grammar text alongside the Queen's LL, which are so do-able and fast, that they will not cause groaning in most kids.

 

 

 

I have a child using the Highschool book, and it is totally inspiring her as a year long creative writing course, which is what it is- she is learning about character development, settings, plot development. No grammar. It has editing practice and dictations, and creative writing. Dd uses AG for grammar. So no- not really university preparation work, however, if you know that, it works as part of an overall plan.

I do find, now that we have been using them for several months- that I prefer dictation etc to be regular, rather than none for several weeks, then dictation every day for 6 or 7 school days. Same is with editing, and copywork for my son.

So I went through the books, made out a schedule for both my kids, where they do dictation once a week (actually using Spelling Wisdom at a level I feel matches them both well)- and the other lessons are done the other days. Sometimes I have put two lessons on a day because a lesson seems so light.

So, I am making them work for me, but I agree- they are great for adding to.

[Bula Mama]

I haven't read the whole thread but I love all of the Queen Homeschool items that I've purchased! 3 of my dc are using the Language Lessons series. These books are MUCH better than the older copywork books that she put out. The presentation is much better and the copywork is more interesting, too. I wish there was just a bit more copywork in the younger grades and dictation in the higher ones. Easy to incorporate, though. I think she's done a really good job doing something that would be a happy medium for many dc, tho.

 

I've used 'Boys and Girls in American History,' 'The American-History Storybook,' and 'Short Stories from American History.' My ds who was 9 at the time loved them.

 

I'm currently waiting for the Geography book to arrive and I plan to purchase "Learning How to Learn" soon! So I'm a fan, but I'm kind of a Latin-Centered with a Charlotte Mason flair person!

 

Oh yes, we also have 'The Material World' which absolutely fascinates my 5yo!

[Bula Mama]

(actually using Spelling Wisdom at a level I feel matches them both well)- .

 

Thanks for mentioning this!!! I just checked it out and downloaded the series. Exactly the one area in the LL program that I wished there was more of. Thanks!!!!

[Eva]

We use some of her things. My daughter picked one of the Language Arts books to use this year. Girls just seem to like all the victorian art in the CM style materials. My boys never went for it. ha

 

We also have another book I plan to use later this year. Plus I have several more items on my list for future purchases.

 

I like her materials.

 

Eva