Boundaries by Cloud & Townsend

[Aubrey]

Can we just talk about this book? I ordered it when someone suggested it on the boundary-less in-law thread.

 

I can't manage to read (esp nonfiction) in chronological order, so I started in the middle, skipped back and forth, read a few paragraphs on the right hand page, then the left, for over an hour today.

 

I don't have questions exactly, but...I guess I'd like to hear what you all think of the book, what you've changed because of it. If you disagree w/ something, that, too.

 

Some of the ideas here--wow. SO counter to the "submissive wife" ideas we've been living among for the last several years. I may have to reread it from front to back. :lol:

[Rebecca VA]

I have mixed feelings about it. I've seen "boundary-setting" used to justify all kinds of selfishness and even rudeness. That has given me a very bad impression of it. However, just to be fair, I read the book last summer. I don't agree with everything, but I do like the thought that "when you say no to one thing, that frees you up to say yes to something else" (I'm paraphrasing what the authors said).

[Aubrey]

I have mixed feelings about it. I've seen "boundary-setting" used to justify all kinds of selfishness and even rudeness. That has given me a very bad impression of it. However, just to be fair, I read the book last summer. I don't agree with everything, but I do like the thought that "when you say no to one thing, that frees you up to say yes to something else" (I'm paraphrasing what the authors said).

 

I could see potential for this, but he doesn't seem to address it in the book. That would have been nice!

[PhunandFonics]

It's been extremely valuable for me, especially when it comes to extended family. Probably the most profound thing that came of it for me, is that I don't have to 'own' everything. As a first born I constantly felt that I had to fix everyone elses problems. My mil actually recommended it to me and I read in conjunction with a class that a local church was offering.

 

As Rebecca said though, some people use it as an excuse to be rude and selfish. There is a fine line between taking care of yourself and putting other people off.

 

It really IS a good book!

[3lilreds in NC]

It was very helpful to me to read it. I haven't read it in a long time, so bear with me. :)

 

My philosophy is that if everyone would just play nicely, we would all get along. Much to my astonishment, everyone does not play by MY rules. :confused::lol: What it helped me to see is that I need to communicate my boundaries. If I don't like being treated a certain way, I don't have to tolerate it. Letting myself get squashed and then stewing about it is silly.

 

I also learned that my MIL is a master boundary buster. She can be any type, any time. If one way isn't working, she switches to another. It's quite impressive, really. Learning to recognize the ways in which she tries to manipulate was eye-opening, and made it easier to stand up for myself because I learned to expect the behavior and be somewhat proactive rather than reactive when she gets started.

 

Dh's family prefers to deal with things on a case-by-case basis. Rather than sitting down and saying "This is OK, this is not" they wait until a situation arises. This does not work for me. There is *always* a situation. While dh is not willing to sit down and have a discussion with his parents (it really would be pointless) he knows what my expectations are, and I know his, so we know generally how to respond.

 

I think the key with your dh is to talk to him about the boundaries you'd like to set and why you feel that way. Try to help him understand where you're coming from. When we had our "marriage moment" a few years ago, I was not very nice about setting boundaries with him. He still loves me. :D I do think it helped to get the issues out into the open and talk about what was OK and what was not.

[texasmama]

I am a very big advocate of this book because I believe it helps people learn sound principles for appropriate ways of interacting in relationships. I very frequently recommend it to others. I'm sure you read my recommendation for it in that thread.;)

[3lilreds in NC]

I do think you have to temper your boundary-setting with prayer and love. You shouldn't use them to be rude. I will say that as a boundary-challenged person, I have found people with good boundaries to be a little off-putting at first, simply because it's so strange to me that someone would HAVE boundaries in the first place.

 

For example, I have a friend who will not do anything with anyone but her husband on the weekend. They don't have any kids, and they make their time together a priority. I thought she would make an exception for *me* since I can only leave the kids with dh on the weekends. Nope. We do things with my kids, and on the occasional evening, but she does not break her weekend rule. I know it's good for her marriage, but it was weird to me at first. She is not rude about it, though.

[Aubrey]

For example, I have a friend who will not do anything with anyone but her husband on the weekend. They don't have any kids, and they make their time together a priority. I thought she would make an exception for *me* since I can only leave the kids with dh on the weekends. Nope. We do things with my kids, and on the occasional evening, but she does not break her weekend rule. I know it's good for her marriage, but it was weird to me at first. She is not rude about it, though.

 

In that ex, let's say YOU have a boundary that your evenings are spent w/ your dh. You'll only do things w/ friends on the weekend. How would you guys work that out? (Theoretically) I'm willing to bet that in most cases, the other person would think *you* were being rude for having these boundaries--whether they had their own or not.

 

And do you think "boundaries" means "inflexibility"? Because, yeah, w/out *some* give, the 2 of you could easily not see ea other. But I'm passive-aggressive, so I'd be fine w/ that. ;)

[razorbackmama]

It has changed my life and my marriage.

[Aubrey]

It has changed my life and my marriage.

 

For the better, I hope? :001_smile:

[razorbackmama]

DEFINITELY. My dh grew up in a family where dad has little concern for the wants/needs of others. So he thought this sort of behavior was normal. Add that to my thorough education in submissiveness, where I was to be "all about my husband," and it was a recipe for disaster.

 

Once I started saying no once in a while and started doing what I knew God wanted me to do rather than relying on God to speak to me through my husband, things got much better.

 

(That is the EXTREMELY short version.)

[Aubrey]

DEFINITELY. My dh grew up in a family where dad has little concern for the wants/needs of others. So he thought this sort of behavior was normal. Add that to my thorough education in submissiveness, where I was to be "all about my husband," and it was a recipe for disaster.

 

Once I started saying no once in a while and started doing what I knew God wanted me to do rather than relying on God to speak to me through my husband, things got much better.

 

(That is the EXTREMELY short version.)

 

I LOVE that he put submission in context: the Bible says husbands & wives are to submit *to ea other.* Ah, the verses we forget in the name of theology/denomination/whatever.

[texasmama]

Regarding people using boundaries to be rude...that is a misunderstanding of how this book advocates that boundaries be set. More problems are caused by people not having strong enough boundaries in relationships than by people have "too strong" boundaries.

 

I think a pp hit the nail on the head when she stated that some people don't recognize appropriate boundaries and infer rudeness as the intent/result of the person setting firm boundaries.

 

As a therapist, I would have far fewer clients if people understood and practiced the principles in this book.:001_smile:

[razorbackmama]

I LOVE that he put submission in context: the Bible says husbands & wives are to submit *to ea other.* Ah, the verses we forget in the name of theology/denomination/whatever.

Exactly. Eph. 5:22 - the word "submit" isn't even in that verse in the Greek - when the translators translated it into English, they had to borrow it from verse 21 so that the next sentence would be a grammatically correct sentence.

 

Don't get me started. ROFLOL.

[simka2]

I am very glad he wrote the book. It put a huge spotlight on some very serious issues in mainstream Christian outlooks.

 

I had a great psychologist friend illustrate it this way. He said, "Simka, put up your hand." I did and he put his palm against mine. Then he said, "Keep me out of your space." As he said this he began pushing on my hand. In response I had to exert quite a bit of effort to keep him out. Afterwards he said, "How strong/firm you had to be in your boundaires is in corelation to how hard someone is trying to violate them. You may end up looking like a rigid person, but if someone won't respect a soft boundary you have to make it a firm one."

 

He took the shame off of me. I did not realize that I was feeling ashamed, because a certain pastor's wife was pushing really hard on my boundaires. She was calling to berate me about some decisions I was making. I calmy asked her to stop. She didn't. I asked again and said I would not continue the conversation if she didn't stop. She continued. I hung up. She called back. I didn't pick up. She called my dh and said I was rude, I hung up on her and now I was being a coward and avoiding her calls and all she wanted to do was, "speak into my life" and "she was very concerned for me.":tongue_smilie:

 

Yes, I looked like a b*itch. I hung up on her. She did not respect my boundaires. My choice was to let her violate them or hang up the phone. I felt ashamed that I hung up on my Pastor's wife, so it the above object lesson was very meaningful to me.

[razorbackmama]

Regarding people using boundaries to be rude...that is a misunderstanding of how this book advocates that boundaries be set. More problems are caused by people not having strong enough boundaries in relationships than by people have "too strong" boundaries.

 

I think a pp hit the nail on the head when she stated that some people don't recognize appropriate boundaries and infer rudeness as the intent/result of the person setting firm boundaries.

 

As a therapist, I would have far fewer clients if people understood and practiced the principles in this book.:001_smile:

:iagree:

[Aubrey]

Regarding people using boundaries to be rude...that is a misunderstanding of how this book advocates that boundaries be set. More problems are caused by people not having strong enough boundaries in relationships than by people have "too strong" boundaries.

 

I think a pp hit the nail on the head when she stated that some people don't recognize appropriate boundaries and infer rudeness as the intent/result of the person setting firm boundaries.

 

As a therapist, I would have far fewer clients if people understood and practiced the principles in this book.:001_smile:

 

Thank you for saying this. We had a neighbor a couple of years ago who started just walking in our house. I told dh. He defended her. She's nice. She's not dangerous. She's coming to say hi & bring bread. It's not like she's traipsing all the way back to our bedroom.

 

I pointed out to him that between his defense of her & my unwillingness to say, "STOP," we both definitely had boundary problems. :D

 

It was much easier to agree that we have that problem, lock the door, & hide from the neighbor, though, than to figure out when it's ok to disappoint his parents. :001_huh:

[Literary Mom]

I, too, read this book years back, but it was also life changing. It helped me make a needed break from a toxic relative who manipulated me with self-pity, guilt and obligation, while totally disrespecting my values and the people I love.

 

Interestingly enough, I'm in the beginning stages of a reconcilation with this person after almost 7 years of being estranged because I gave an ultimatum: respect my boundaries or you cannot be in relationship with me and my family. After years of balking at my boundaries and therefore being shut out of my life, he is finally agreeing to respect them. I see this as answered prayer, and I am thankful for the support and wisdom I gleaned from the book, which helped me to stay firm even when I was very tempted to give in to guilt.

[texasmama]

Thank you for saying this. We had a neighbor a couple of years ago who started just walking in our house. I told dh. He defended her. She's nice. She's not dangerous. She's coming to say hi & bring bread. It's not like she's traipsing all the way back to our bedroom.

 

I pointed out to him that between his defense of her & my unwillingness to say, "STOP," we both definitely had boundary problems. :D

 

It was much easier to agree that we have that problem, lock the door, & hide from the neighbor, though, than to figure out when it's ok to disappoint his parents. :001_huh:

 

We also had someone walking into our house at one point...but it was my MIL.;) That caused undue issues in my marriage and extended family. MIL has forced me to have boundaries like Simka describes with the demonstration. When someone comes into your house and goes into your bedroom and gets your dry cleaning out of your closet without your permission or knowledge (she had the code to the garage door), very strong boundaries need to be set.:tongue_smilie: And MIL was very offended and shocked when my BIL and his wife refused to give her a key to their house. Go figure.;)

[Denisemomof4]

that book was life changing for me and I've recommended it here MANY times. For me, I had to learn to develop a spine. My family, and my inlaws, just plowed over me and I allowed it. I learned that by sitting back and doing nothing, I was just as much in the wrong as the people who did this to me. I don't think I learned that particular thing in Boundaries but I can't say for sure. It's been over 10 years since I've read it.

 

I had a VERY unhealthy relationship with my parents. When I placed my boundaries, it was because I deserved to be respected as a parent and an adult. I DIDN'T need to be spoken to, guilted or controlled like I was as a child. Setting boundaries was very hard at first but SO necessary to protect my own little family. In doing so my parents and I were able to have a wonderful relationsihp. They even admired me and respected me before they died. Before the boundaries, I really didn't get much respect from them. My sister, on the other hand, pretty much forever dropped out of the picture when I could no longer be controlled by her. It states in the book that some people will leave accept the boundaries, some will leave for awhile (my parents) and others will never respect boundaries and leave forever. (my sister)

 

This book was absolutely life changing. I *LOVED* it.

[texasmama]

BTW, I can't find my copy of this book so I had to go and buy a used one on Amazon.com.:tongue_smilie: See what you made me go and do! (A person with good boundaries would say, "Now, that was your choice, not mine.";))

[JumpyTheFrog]

I had a great psychologist friend illustrate it this way. He said, "Simka, put up your hand." I did and he put his palm against mine. Then he said, "Keep me out of your space." As he said this he began pushing on my hand. In response I had to exert quite a bit of effort to keep him out. Afterwards he said, "How strong/firm you had to be in your boundaires is in corelation to how hard someone is trying to violate them. You may end up looking like a rigid person, but if someone won't respect a soft boundary you have to make it a firm one."

 

 

Wow, that is a great story! Thanks for sharing. I will definitely remember that one for future use.

[mrs.m]

The thing that you need to make sure you do when setting boundaries is not offer too many explanations and reasons. I think that's what gets us into trouble and makes us seem inflexible. The other person probably isn't going to agree with your reasons since you aren't putting them first. You only seem selfish when you give them the reason that they aren't center of your life at that moment. So don't go there. ;)

 

So if you are asking someone to stop walking into your house without knocking first, it might be better to just lock the door and when you answer, say, "Thank you for the bread. I have to go but I'll pop over to your house tomorrow evening." Big Smile! (Just using that as an example. ;) Probably won't apply to a MIL though. That's a tough one!!! )

Edited April 23, 2011 by jannylynn

[Aubrey]

The thing that you need to make sure you do when setting boundaries is not offer too many explanations and reasons. I think that's what gets us into trouble and makes us seem inflexible. The other person probably isn't going to agree with your reasons since you aren't putting them first. You only seem selfish when you give them the reason that they aren't center of your life at that moment. So don't go there. ;)

 

This is hard for me because my reason is often that I need "white space" on the calendar. That works about as well as watching the "off" station on the TV.

 

So if you are asking someone to stop walking into your house without knocking first, it might be better to just lock the door and when you answer, say, "Thank you for the bread. I have to go but I'll pop over to your house tomorrow evening." Big Smile! (Just using that as an example. ;) Probably won't apply to a MIL though. That's a tough one!!! )

 

Part of the problem was the one big window--she'd smoosh her face to it (where we homeschooled), wave, & walk in. Or knock. There's no not answering that.

[SBMama]

This is hard for me because my reason is often that I need "white space" on the calendar. That works about as well as watching the "off" station on the TV.

 

I'm glad that I'm not the only one! Unfortunately, no one seems to understand that sometimes I need a day where I have nothing planned outside of our normal day to day. Maybe I just need to say "no thanks" instead of trying to explain. I really do need to get this book.

[RobinF]

We also had someone walking into our house at one point...but it was my MIL.;) That caused undue issues in my marriage and extended family. MIL has forced me to have boundaries like Simka describes with the demonstration. When someone comes into your house and goes into your bedroom and gets your dry cleaning out of your closet without your permission or knowledge (she had the code to the garage door), very strong boundaries need to be set.:tongue_smilie: And MIL was very offended and shocked when my BIL and his wife refused to give her a key to their house. Go figure.;)

 

Imagine my in laws surprise when dh wouldn't give them my cell phone number and told his brother and sister that they weren't to give it out either. They still don't have it 3 years later.

 

We have used this book and recommend it in our church all the time. Many of us were raised to feel guilty if we said no and many were raised not to even realize that someone else's crap is just that their crap not ours.

[Joanne]

I believe everyone needs the informatlion in that book to have a healthy life.

 

However, some people already have that information intuitively in place. Some learn it other places (friends, mentors, leaders, parents, other print resources) or other "programs' such as 12 step.

 

If you don't have that information, the book is a good place to get it. I think it's a decent book for non Christians, as well.

[G5052]

I read it when it first came out, and then bought it again to re-read and keep around (not sure where the first one went).

 

It is invaluable for anyone with someone close to them with narcissitic personality disorder or if you can't say "no."

 

I probably say "no" more than most people, but I truly try to be thoughtful about it and not just because I want to :001_smile:.

[Rosie_0801]

This is hard for me because my reason is often that I need "white space" on the calendar.

 

Write "Aubrey's Cave Time" on the white space. Now it's a Something To Do rather than a nothing is happening?

 

Rosie

[Sue G in PA]

This book made me realize that I grew up not having my boundaries respected...by anyone. Not physical boundaries, not emotional boundaries, etc. It helped me realize why I had certain struggles and how to fix them. I also realized that my dh grew up w/out boundaries either. Not a good mix for a good marriage. ;) It has helped me teach my children about boundaries and how to respect AND set them. I have a hard time accepting boundaries in some areas and used to think people who set them were rude or impolite or selfish or whatever. It finally dawned on me that this was how life worked! People set boundaries, you respect them. It's not rude. It's healthy. I also recommend Boundaries in Marriage, Bound. for Teens and Bound. for Children by the same authors.

[mrs.m]

Write "Aubrey's Cave Time" on the white space. Now it's a Something To Do rather than a nothing is happening?

 

Rosie

 

:iagree:"I'm sorry, that time won't work for me." Works as well. Quiet and alone time is something that everyone needs. But it's not something that has to be explained because people without boundaries won't understand. They would give up their free time and not think twice about it but then complain later about being worn out.

 

And your neighbor! :lol: Goodness sakes! I'm sure you'll figure something out and still be very kind to her.

[3lilreds in NC]

In that ex, let's say YOU have a boundary that your evenings are spent w/ your dh. You'll only do things w/ friends on the weekend. How would you guys work that out? (Theoretically) I'm willing to bet that in most cases, the other person would think *you* were being rude for having these boundaries--whether they had their own or not.

 

And do you think "boundaries" means "inflexibility"? Because, yeah, w/out *some* give, the 2 of you could easily not see ea other. But I'm passive-aggressive, so I'd be fine w/ that. ;)

 

We just did things that the kids could do, too. I will say that our time together decreased greatly when she found out I was going to homeschool. She is still my best friend. I don't blame her for not wanting my entourage with us all the time. We don't live in the same place anymore, but every now and then we would get together in an evening, during the week, when dh could watch the kids. We really didn't see each other much.

[Mallorie]

I also love and recommend this book. In fact, I need to read it again. It is one of two books that I will unconditionally NEVER lend out, because sometimes I pull them off my shelf and page through them just for reinforcement during a tough time.

 

The other book is "Anger" by Gary Chapman.

 

Those two books got me through a very dark time.

[3lilreds in NC]

It's hard with inlaws and parents. I am still not good at setting those boundaries. It's easier with my inlaws because I don't like them, and really, my parents don't require that many boundaries because they live 20 hours away.

 

Just accept that the inlaws are going to be disappointed. It's a fact of life at my house. :D You and dh need to decide what works for your family, and they can decide to get upset or accept that you're doing what you believe is best. Either way, it's NOT YOUR PROBLEM and that is the hardest part to accept.

[Aubrey]

:iagree:"I'm sorry, that time won't work for me." Works as well. Quiet and alone time is something that everyone needs. But it's not something that has to be explained because people without boundaries won't understand. They would give up their free time and not think twice about it but then complain later about being worn out.

 

And your neighbor! :lol: Goodness sakes! I'm sure you'll figure something out and still be very kind to her.

 

Yeah, "that won't work for me" works fine initially, but somehow it always comes out later that I wasn't doing anything at all. And my ils have a tendency to go through bouts of planning something every. single. weekend. Things that are Very Important & Can't Be Skipped w/out causing a rift in the fabric of humanity. Things like bridal showers for distant cousins' new brides. Or distant cousins' 5th weddings. Or Random Barbecue where Distant Cousins Who Never Come to Town will be & want to see us.

 

We're the only ones in our generation w/ kids (until very recently), & I think that effects the pressures they put on us.

 

The neighbor: we haven't lived in that apt complex for years, & dh says she's from a country where that's acceptable. I don't buy it--she didn't go in anyone else's house, & she'd lived here for about 10years while she & her dh were working on their phd's.

[Aubrey]

It's hard with inlaws and parents. I am still not good at setting those boundaries. It's easier with my inlaws because I don't like them, and really, my parents don't require that many boundaries because they live 20 hours away.

 

Just accept that the inlaws are going to be disappointed. It's a fact of life at my house. :D You and dh need to decide what works for your family, and they can decide to get upset or accept that you're doing what you believe is best. Either way, it's NOT YOUR PROBLEM and that is the hardest part to accept.

 

Part of the problem is that dh has to re-understand ea time why we're saying no. They want us to come over this weekend. Since the van's not running well, dh suggested 2-3 alternatives. I finally said no, & he kind-of...was surprised...wanted to "talk about it." :glare:

 

I asked him if he was more concerned about disappointing his parents' expectations of if he more WANTED to go--definitely both w/ him. He couldn't tell which was more, but after thinking about it, he says, "I don't know if I really want to go at all...it's just...what we do."

 

Dh has *never* missed a Christmas at home. Ever. The natural rhythm between families never developed for us because my mom moved out of state, my dad died, & my grandparents...well. But that means we have no excuses to say no to ils & we're *expected* to be there/have them here for Easter, birthdays, Valentines, etc. Everything. Except Christmas--then it's their house, period.

[3lilreds in NC]

Yeah, "that won't work for me" works fine initially, but somehow it always comes out later that I wasn't doing anything at all. And my ils have a tendency to go through bouts of planning something every. single. weekend. Things that are Very Important & Can't Be Skipped w/out causing a rift in the fabric of humanity. Things like bridal showers for distant cousins' new brides. Or distant cousins' 5th weddings. Or Random Barbecue where Distant Cousins Who Never Come to Town will be & want to see us.

 

We're the only ones in our generation w/ kids (until very recently), & I think that effects the pressures they put on us.

 

One option you have is to let dh take the kids, if it's important to him and them that you guys make an appearance. The nice part about that is that it gives you some alone time.

 

You can also sit down with dh and decide, for example, that you will do something with his parents one weekend per month, period. He can choose which activity you will attend, but once a month for those kind of social occasions is all you will do. You can decide if "you" means "you, yourself" or "you, the entire family." You can also decide to do more than one thing if something truly special comes up that you would like to attend.

 

You have to get over caring what they think if they find out you weren't doing anything. If you don't like all those social activities, and lots of people don't, then DON'T GO TO THEM ALL. Really, it's OK. I would not participate in all that stuff for dh's family if I lived near them. His parents would sulk and throw tantrums and tell dh and everyone else that I was trying to keep him from his family and keep the kids away from them, but I still wouldn't do it (they already say those things and we live 11 hours away). Dh could decide to take the kids, more power to him, but there is no way I would be doing all that.

 

They will get over the disappointment, I promise. They can accept it or not, that's their problem. If you have a good relationship with them and could tell them that you feel overwhelmed by all this stuff, that's fine, but if not, simply decline politely and go on about your business. It's not their business why you don't feel like socializing with half the state of TX on a regular basis, but you have to remember that it's not and communicate that to them.

[3lilreds in NC]

Sorry for lecturing. Can you tell I have inlaw issues? :lol:

 

The key here is a change in YOUR mindset. They're going to react how they're going to react. You have to be able to remove yourself from that and do what is best for you.

[Aubrey]

One option you have is to let dh take the kids, if it's important to him and them that you guys make an appearance. The nice part about that is that it gives you some alone time.

 

We do this a lot, but it ends up making me look bad.

 

You can also sit down with dh and decide, for example, that you will do something with his parents one weekend per month, period. He can choose which activity you will attend, but once a month for those kind of social occasions is all you will do. You can decide if "you" means "you, yourself" or "you, the entire family." You can also decide to do more than one thing if something truly special comes up that you would like to attend.

 

We've done that. But we always get talked down. I mean, a *wedding shower* can't be skipped. And when it comes up, we've already gone over the weekend before for something else. And there are church functions, etc. that count toward that ONCE a MONTH goal.

 

You have to get over caring what they think if they find out you weren't doing anything. If you don't like all those social activities, and lots of people don't, then DON'T GO TO THEM ALL. Really, it's OK. I would not participate in all that stuff for dh's family if I lived near them. His parents would sulk and throw tantrums and tell dh and everyone else that I was trying to keep him from his family and keep the kids away from them, but I still wouldn't do it (they already say those things and we live 11 hours away). Dh could decide to take the kids, more power to him, but there is no way I would be doing all that.

 

The more I think about it, the more I realize the problem is dh. He hates to say no, he hates to make a decision, & so the drama, the stress of it all is dragged out 100 times. And "no" means "let's keep talking about it."

 

They will get over the disappointment, I promise. They can accept it or not, that's their problem. If you have a good relationship with them and could tell them that you feel overwhelmed by all this stuff, that's fine, but if not, simply decline politely and go on about your business. It's not their business why you don't feel like socializing with half the state of TX on a regular basis, but you have to remember that it's not and communicate that to them.

 

You know, that has to be true. Bil never goes to anything. Of course, he doesn't have adorable kids, so they care less. And the girl he's marrying is very VERY attached to *her* family, & I think ils know they're not going to get as much out of them as they do us.

 

Of course, the problem is that everybody's so nice & likes ea other so much--so nobody understands how there could be a problem. How could I *like* them & not want to see them every weekend???? :lol:

[RobinF]

You know, that has to be true. Bil never goes to anything. Of course, he doesn't have adorable kids, so they care less. And the girl he's marrying is very VERY attached to *her* family, & I think ils know they're not going to get as much out of them as they do us.

 

Of course, the problem is that everybody's so nice & likes ea other so much--so nobody understands how there could be a problem. How could I *like* them & not want to see them every weekend???? :lol:

 

You sound like a natural introvert who needs some down time. There are times when it is ok to say to people this is what we need as a family. I would bet money that at least on of your children is also an introvert and it would be true that they need time at home (without company) too. I would simply say that we need to spend some time at home. I would bow out of all future family obligations that aren't important to your immediate family (ie 5th weddings and half related wedding showers). Eventually your in laws will get the hint. You will have to make it a priority to spend that time at home and I would make it a dedicated time (like 2 weekends a month). I wouldn't budge on it unless it was a real emergency.

[8circles]

I've not read the book but it's been on my list for a while.

 

I just hate it when being an introvert is treated like it's a personality flaw - seems to happens all the time in our society.

 

Here's hoping your DH sees the light soon. :grouphug:

[JVA]

In-laws and a narcisistic family member prompted us to read this book years ago. I'm rather embarrassed about how many times I've recommended the book on this forum but, it's the 'starting point' for dissecting a lot of issues. As for any down side- one can always go to an extreme with just about any 'cure' and be rude. It's not necessary. I had so much pent up frustration that by the time I read it, I was ready to go overboard a bit. Good thing, my dh helped me keep in balance.

 

It took my dh longer to get on board with a 'plan'- he was used to doing it 'because that's what we do'. When he could see what over-exposure to his family was really doing to me, then he saw the importance of drawing some lines and sticking to them. Now, if his sil cries and wails because she doesn't get her way, he no longer feels responsible. It's HER choice to act the way she does. This book changed our life- that's why I recommend it so much- as well as the others with similar titles.

[texasmama]

I just hate it when being an introvert is treated like it's a personality flaw - seems to happens all the time in our society.

:iagree:Being an introvert is a personality trait, not a character flaw. (I'm an extrovert married to an introvert.) We are both much happier now that I stopped dragging him to my get togethers with high school friends.:tongue_smilie:

 

Sounds like you would like reading Boundaries in Marriage, Aubrey. Dh and I read it together a few years back, and it helped to clarify some things. Consistently agreeing to do things that make you feel resentful is not a healthy dynamic in a marriage, from my own experience.

 

My dh's family lives 15 minutes away, but I don't always attend get togethers. Dh accepts this and takes the kids by himself some times. The relationships are better (though that is not saying much where my crazy MIL is concerned) when I don't feel "forced" or pressured to spend much of my free time with MIL. I have a good relationship with other members of his family, just not MIL. No one has a good relationship with her, which helps my cause because dh cannot really argue with me not wanting to spend time with her when he doesn't want to himself.

[texasmama]

I'm rather embarrassed about how many times I've recommended the book on this forum but, it's the 'starting point' for dissecting a lot of issues.

 

Same here! I feel like I go from thread to thread hawking this one series of books.:tongue_smilie: IRL, I recommend it almost universally. I recommend it to the students in my college classes. People must think it is the only book I have ever read.;)

[justamouse]

I am an introvert and I married a total introvert (I'm an INFJ, I will do stuff out of obligation because of my affection for people-Dh tells everyone he has a rash).

 

When we first got married-heck, even now, he worked/works killer hours. 60+ hours a week. And I supported him in that because we had a shared dream, and he was working for it.

 

NO ONE respected that he needed to be with us on the weekends. He was exhausted, he needed to reconnect with his family. Everyone expected us to be out every blessed moment of the weekend.

 

When the twins came it was like I was the dog and pony show and was expected to show up so my mom could show us off. Simka's hand story? My mother pushed into my space so much that I had to erect a wall, and it was so hard because Mom has *no* boundaries, and she thinks you shouldn't either (then there's the guilt and blame and anger coming your way because you won't bend). Especially if she wants to show her grandchildren off. I KNOW her actions come from a place of love, but they also come from selfishness because she wasn't thinking about me or what I had to do to simply get out of the house at all. (Getting twins ready (while pregnant) to do ANYTHING is a ten ring circus.)

 

Our friends-extroverts to the extreme-just stopped asking us to do anything. And I would tell them why, I would explain to them that we NEED this time home. I physically cannot deal with being out every day, and He, who is worse than me, IS out every day at work and I need to respect his need for relaxation and space.

 

So, :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I totally get it.

[razorbackmama]

Oh Aubrey, are we married to the same man?:lol:

 

One time, gosh, probably 7-8 years ago, we lived in the same town with my in-laws. My dh's cousin had gotten into a fight with her dad (my fil's bil) and drove to our town to go hang out at the cemetery at her grandparents' grave. In-laws were afraid she was going to kill herself, so they went and got her and took her back to their house to talk.

 

After a while they called us because her car was still at the cemetery. They wanted us to go get it and take it back to our house so it wouldn't sit there all night. OK 2 major factors were involved: 1) our town had a whopping 1458 people in it...NOT a busy place:lol:, and 2) our oldest son had a stomach virus at the time and was vomiting. We couldn't exactly leave him, nor was I comfortable taking him over to the cemetery to pick up this car the cousin had left, which was started over her being an idiot in the first place (punching her dad, etc.). So I told them no.

 

OH. MY. GOSH. I'm sure you can imagine how ugly it was. And honestly, even my dh sided with them, but mostly due to the manipulative behavior he was used to from them throughout the years. He grew up just never EVER saying no to them. So we went, puke bowl and all.

 

(Yeah, I'm STILL irritated over that!!!!!!!)

 

We've had to go to Christmas with kids with 102 fevers and the flu before. WITH the 80yo grandfather who did NOT need to be exposed to the flu!

 

We've had to travel two weekends in a row because they refused to celebrate Christmas the weekend BEFORE Christmas, when we were already going to be in town.:glare: With a 21mo and a 4mo.:glare:

 

My dh is getting SO. MUCH. BETTER. But it's been a long time in coming. A few years back his dad was trying to decide if he should sell his farm. He called asking dh what his plans were regarding the farm. Considering that dh has NO plans regarding his father's farm (dh works for the government, and at that point we lived literally 2000 miles away), dh was like, Um, do whatever you want to do, Dad. But fil was just going on and on about whether dh was going to take over the farm when he retires (in TWENTY years) because if he was then he wouldn't sell, blahblahblah.

 

Dh said that there is a REASON we don't live close, because if we did, fil would always want dh over there helping with stuff. I said, "Why can't you just say no?" He said, "Well, I'd feel bad saying no when he needs the help." I told him, "If you CAN help him then of course help him. But if you CANNOT and don't have the time, then just tell him no!" He couldn't understand that at ALL, since, like I said, you just DON'T tell his dad no. So I told dh that yes, since he doesn't have good emotional boundaries with him, then we have to have a physical boundary in place, so at this point we HAVE to live at least a day's drive from them.

 

There is hope for your husband, but it will take a long time for him to unlearn the patterns that have been well-ingrained in him since childhood!:grouphug:

[Hoggirl]

I read this book ages ago at the suggestion of a friend. But, it has been awhile, and I need to read it again.

 

I wish they would write Boundaries for In-Laws. My parents both dying before I was married, means there is no choice for holidays except to spend it with my husband's parents. This exacerbates the problem. There is no where else to go. This causes a lot of resentment on my part. I am currently reading Parentless Parents,which is helping me sort through some of this.

 

I have gotten better with drawing boundaries with my fil over the years (mil is a delight), but it is still hard. He is a force to be reckoned with. NO ONE stands up to him. My niece is a freshman in college and *HE* decided the schedule she chose for the spring semester needed some tweaking and told both her and my sil what she needed to do *instead*. Their response? Did what they were "told." No, he is not paying for niece's education. It's none of his business, but he makes it so. At any rate, it makes it harder for me to stand up to him b/c no one else will.

[Hoggirl]

sorry for the double post.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Hoggirl

[Aubrey]

I am an introvert and I married a total introvert (I'm an INFJ, I will do stuff out of obligation because of my affection for people-Dh tells everyone he has a rash).

 

We're both introverts, too, opposite of you & your dh, though. Mine loves people & tends to neglect himself/his family to meet others' needs. I joke about the rash but usually get dragged along.

 

When we first got married-heck, even now, he worked/works killer hours. 60+ hours a week. And I supported him in that because we had a shared dream, and he was working for it.

 

NO ONE respected that he needed to be with us on the weekends. He was exhausted, he needed to reconnect with his family. Everyone expected us to be out every blessed moment of the weekend.

 

The last 3 years of seminary were like this. No one respected his need to *study* much less be w/ us. *I* got griped at because *he* wanted to be home for dinner once a week. But then the same people wanted us involved in every. single. family get-together, church event, etc, even though most of these were an hour away. *Awful.* And dh wouldn't say no. No wonder he got burned out.

 

When the twins came it was like I was the dog and pony show and was expected to show up so my mom could show us off. Simka's hand story? My mother pushed into my space so much that I had to erect a wall, and it was so hard because Mom has *no* boundaries, and she thinks you shouldn't either (then there's the guilt and blame and anger coming your way because you won't bend). Especially if she wants to show her grandchildren off. I KNOW her actions come from a place of love, but they also come from selfishness because she wasn't thinking about me or what I had to do to simply get out of the house at all. (Getting twins ready (while pregnant) to do ANYTHING is a ten ring circus.)

 

There's also the "stopping by" to "help" that's not helpful. I don't have twins, but I know what you mean. Or the "come to this event, & it will be great because we'll feed you & help watch the kids." Right. I bet you have a bridge to sell me, too.

 

Our friends-extroverts to the extreme-just stopped asking us to do anything. And I would tell them why, I would explain to them that we NEED this time home. I physically cannot deal with being out every day, and He, who is worse than me, IS out every day at work and I need to respect his need for relaxation and space.

 

So, :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I totally get it.

 

Yeah, we made friends w/ a great couple at church, had them over for dinner, & before they were down the block, they were calling us to get together the next day. Both extroverts, both lonely--hardly anybody else our age at church, & worse--no kids of their own.

 

It was actually hard to be at our old church because there were so few people our age, & for some reason they had a hard time connecting to ea other, so they somehow all ended up wanting to hang out w/ us. Which was really cool--it's the closest either dh or I have ever been to popularity--but, wow. Very demanding. And people get *so* hurt when you have to say no. :001_huh: But introverts saying no to stuff generally cures the popularity, so we're good now. :lol:

[Aubrey]

Dh said that there is a REASON we don't live close, because if we did, fil would always want dh over there helping with stuff. I said, "Why can't you just say no?" He said, "Well, I'd feel bad saying no when he needs the help." I told him, "If you CAN help him then of course help him. But if you CANNOT and don't have the time, then just tell him no!" He couldn't understand that at ALL, since, like I said, you just DON'T tell his dad no. So I told dh that yes, since he doesn't have good emotional boundaries with him, then we have to have a physical boundary in place, so at this point we HAVE to live at least a day's drive from them.

 

But needing "white space" on the calendar, to me, does not equal "can't help." So I thought living an hour away would help. Nope.

 

There is hope for your husband, but it will take a long time for him to unlearn the patterns that have been well-ingrained in him since childhood!:grouphug:

 

Honestly, I *think* I can say no (barely) to anyone *except* dh. I mean, by virtue of the marriage, he deserves to get to talk through things, but jeepers it's hard.

 

We talked about it last night. I told him that "talking about it" means trying to talk me into it & that I shouldn't have to explain NO to him since he knows why it's hard for me. In that context, he apologized & everything was fine. It's always like that face-to-face when things are calm. The problems come when he calls me 4x in a week because both of his parents have called him 3x ea about an event, even after saying no. And really, I think that comes from him not minding going & being used to going.