Missing games as punishment/consequences

[Melissa in Australia]

I've been on both sides of this issue as a coach and a parent.

 

As a parent, I've made my kids sit out both games and practices for disciplinary reasons. When they've been required to do that it has also involved apologizing to their teammates as a group for not being able to participate. Additionally, they have to go the practice/game and watch their teammates. If this had involved a team forfeiting a game due to lack of players so be it. That's part of the misconduct and its consequences. I would immediately remove my kid from a team where the coach wouldn't honor this request. The coaches that have been involved with my kids have supported it, and have even used it on their own kids on these teams.

 

As a coach, I have fully supported parents who have made this decision with their own kids. The situations have ranged from a kid being kept at home for discipline to a kid riding the bench for discipline. If one of these occurences had caused a forfeit situation, I would have honored the parents wishes and forfeited the game.

 

I understand the commitment to the team aspect, but there also has to be some accountability for their actions.

 

 

You know what, I as a coach, would be glad if you removed your child.

I have no time for parents that want to use me the volunteer coach as an enforcer of their family problems.

[Dad 4 Boys]

You know what, I as a coach, would be glad if you removed your child.

I have no time for parents that want to use me the volunteer coach as an enforcer of their family problems.

 

I in no way expect any coach to act as an enforcer for me. I'm more than capable of enforcing on my own. In the case of instances like this with my boys, who were 14 and 15 respectively, their discipline required no effort or attention on the part of the coach other than allowing them to apologize to the team and him. The coaches were also notified a day or two in advance of the situation. The boys both understood clearly that they were expected to be with their teams, but were not to participate.

 

However, if a coach was able to see the bigger picture and want to help enforce the lesson, that would be great. In fact, that is exactly what happened with my oldest when he had to sit out a game on his home school varsity baseball team. The coach had a one-on-one talk with him, which helped strengthen the message we were trying to send.

 

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Also, I don't really see this as a family "problem" unless disciplining kids is considered a problem. I see it as a normal course when raising kids.

[readinmom]

Since baseball is a team sport, that is essentially hurting the rest of the team more than the one being punished, especially if it comes to a forfeit. Team sports are a huge committment. If it was an individual competition, it would be a different story.

[In The Great White North]

You know what, I as a coach, would be glad if you removed your child.

I have no time for parents that want to use me the volunteer coach as an enforcer of their family problems.

 

:iagree:

 

Also, I don't really see this as a family "problem" unless disciplining kids is considered a problem.

 

The behavior you didn't like is the problem, disciplining is normal.

 

However, I now have something to add to my parent briefing at the beginning of the season:

 

"Participation on the team is a commitment, not a carrot or a stick. If you plan on using participation in practice or competition as a reward or punishment for your child, do not sign up for this team."

[Melissa in Australia]

You know, not only the child who is getting punished's team is penalised by having to forfeit, but the team they were to play is also punished. They miss out on a game as well. Plus , there is usually a financial penalty that the forfeiting team has to pay.

[Dad 4 Boys]

:iagree:

 

"Participation on the team is a commitment, not a carrot or a stick. If you plan on using participation in practice or competition as a reward or punishment for your child, do not sign up for this team."

 

What are acceptable reasons for players on your team to miss practices or games?

 

On my kids' teams it's quite common for at least 2 or 3 players to be missing for one reason or another. That's why each team has a roster with 3 or 4 more players than the minimum required to play a game.

 

Recent examples have included conflict with basketball schedule, family vacation, spring break, church activity, worship band practice, taking ACT, sibling birthday party, conflicting soccer game and the list goes on and on. These were all reasons that players missed actual games. Is it any more acceptable for a player to miss a baseball practice/game because his basketball team is playing somewhere else than it is for him to sit out a game for disciplinary reasons? Where's the commitment to the baseball team?

 

In the cases where we've used this discipline, it's never resulted in a forfeit. Additionally, the coach was notified well in advance of the game and had plenty of time to be prepared with options.

 

We also share the commitment to a team when we join. Our kids make as many, if not more, of the practices and games as any others on the team. However, there are times when it just doesn't work out, and they miss a game or practice every now and then.

[lionfamily1999]

Wow, so if any player ever misses anything their team can't play a game?

 

Jumping the gun a bit?

[Murphy101]

Wow, so if any player ever misses anything their team can't play a game?

 

Jumping the gun a bit?

 

That was my thought too.

[lionfamily1999]

That was my thought too.

The economy is probably tied into this too.:lol:

[Parrothead]

I don't have my DD miss performances or rehearsals that lead to performances. Park days, co-op classes, and other "fun" stuff, though, are fair game.

:iagree:Yes, this.

[Dad 4 Boys]

Wow, so if any player ever misses anything their team can't play a game?

 

Jumping the gun a bit?

 

I don't understand your comment. If it was in reference to my most recent post, I was trying to make the point that players miss practices/games for a multitude of reasons. However, teams are usually structured to accommodate multiple players being gone for whatever reason.

 

I don't see a disciplinary miss being any different than any of the others.

[lionfamily1999]

I don't understand your comment. If it was in reference to my most recent post, I was trying to make the point that players miss practices/games for a multitude of reasons. However, teams are usually structured to accommodate multiple players being gone for whatever reason.

 

I don't see a disciplinary miss being any different than any of the others.

NOT AT ALL. I've been agreeing with you all along :p

 

The comment was in regard to the manymanymany posts that seemed to assume that a child missing anything in regard to anything meant that no one would get to play. A child missing baseball one day does not automatically end up in the team forfeiting a game. Baseball can mean practice too. Baseball teams usually have more players than what they need to play. :lol: Pretty much exactly what you're saying. It's silly to assume that a child missing an activity automatically results in no one being allowed to do anything.

[Dad 4 Boys]

NOT AT ALL. I've been agreeing with you all along :p

 

The comment was in regard to the manymanymany posts that seemed to assume that a child missing anything in regard to anything meant that no one would get to play. A child missing baseball one day does not automatically end up in the team forfeiting a game. Baseball can mean practice too. Baseball teams usually have more players than what they need to play. :lol: Pretty much exactly what you're saying. It's silly to assume that a child missing an activity automatically results in no one being allowed to do anything.

 

 

Got it.

[Peela]

I've never used missing a social event as a consequence for bad behaviour.

 

I generally deal with things very quickly or give a consequence that is directly related to the behaviour. For example, ds stays on the computer too long- he gets less time the next night. Even that is only something I have instigated recently.

If he talks badly to me- I might speak strongly to him about it- but it will be dealt with then and there.

I cant stand dragging out punishments to "later". Dh is bad at it too- he tries to withdraw pocket money but then cant remember what he was upset about and gives it all to them anyway. We really try and get whatever needs dealing with, sorted out and dealt with so that we can all get on with our life freshly, without punishments having over us or them.

I cant imagine taking a kid to a game and trying to make them feel guilty by not allowing them to play, or giving them the guilt trip in the car there and back. I just cant hang onto anything that long- the game is fresh and new and the past is the past.

If ds and I don't get on- and we have our issues- we work it out with comunication and getting to the bottom of it- generally, within a short time.

We do do punishment at times- but its rare nowadays.

[Spy Car]

What are acceptable reasons for players on your team to miss practices or games?

 

On my kids' teams it's quite common for at least 2 or 3 players to be missing for one reason or another. That's why each team has a roster with 3 or 4 more players than the minimum required to play a game.

 

Recent examples have included conflict with basketball schedule, family vacation, spring break, church activity, worship band practice, taking ACT, sibling birthday party, conflicting soccer game and the list goes on and on. These were all reasons that players missed actual games. Is it any more acceptable for a player to miss a baseball practice/game because his basketball team is playing somewhere else than it is for him to sit out a game for disciplinary reasons? Where's the commitment to the baseball team?

 

In the cases where we've used this discipline, it's never resulted in a forfeit. Additionally, the coach was notified well in advance of the game and had plenty of time to be prepared with options.

 

We also share the commitment to a team when we join. Our kids make as many, if not more, of the practices and games as any others on the team. However, there are times when it just doesn't work out, and they miss a game or practice every now and then.

 

The reasons you listed for missing games (with the possible exception of taking the ACT) are indicative of the breakdown of society when it comes to parents and children meeting their commitments to teams these days.

 

In my youth you missed a game only when you were too sick to play (and even that didn't always stop one if you were really needed) of there was some true family (or other) crisis. But one did not miss games "casually."

 

The current attitude among many that showing up for games is "optional" is to my mind a very unfortunate turn of events and teaches very bad lessons to children.

 

Bill

[Dad 4 Boys]

The reasons you listed for missing games (with the possible exception of taking the ACT) are indicative of the breakdown of society when it comes to parents and children meeting their commitments to teams these days.

 

In my youth you missed a game only when you were too sick to play (and even that didn't always stop one if you were really needed) of there was some true family (or other) crisis. But one did not miss games "casually."

 

The current attitude among many that showing up for games is "optional" is to my mind a very unfortunate turn of events and teaches very bad lessons to children.

 

Bill

 

I agree with you to some extent. However, when I compare the youth baseball that my sons play to the youth baseball that I played, there are very significant differences.

 

When I played in the 70s/80s, Khoury league was during the summer only and consisted of maybe 10 or 12 games played May through July. As such, it was easy to commit nearly, if not 100%, to a team. There was no fall ball, no travel, no winter workouts, etc.

 

Now, the kids play nearly year round if they're that serious about it. For example, my 14 year old began once weekly practices with his team in October. This lasted through the end of the year. After the holiday break, it went to twice weekly until they started playing games in mid-March. Between mid-March and late July, his team will play probably 60 - 70 games depending upon how they do in the tournaments they enter.

 

That being said, it would be nearly impossible to commit 100% completely to the team and still do some "normal" things like take a family vacation. In fact, our family vacation this year will be at a baseball tournament in Florida for my 16 year old son. At this level of competition and involvement, the coaches are aware of this and understand that there will be times when some other facet of the player's life will conflict with baseball. They keep this in mind when setting roster sizes, scheduling games, etc.

 

I would say that on his team, 90% of the players make more than 90% of the practices and games. However, I don't think there is a single player, the coach's son included, that has been to 100% of the practices and games. My son has sat out 1 practice for discipline. Otherwise, he's missed 2 games due to a scheduling conflict and maybe 2 practices.

 

I do agree that in general there is a lower level of commitment. I think it can be attributed to a lot of kids being involved in way too many activities that can demand equal levels of commitment.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Dad 4 Boys

[elfgivas]

The reasons you listed for missing games (with the possible exception of taking the ACT) are indicative of the breakdown of society when it comes to parents and children meeting their commitments to teams these days.

 

In my youth you missed a game only when you were too sick to play (and even that didn't always stop one if you were really needed) of there was some true family (or other) crisis. But one did not miss games "casually."

 

The current attitude among many that showing up for games is "optional" is to my mind a very unfortunate turn of events and teaches very bad lessons to children.

 

Bill

 

you said that so well. it happens in the dance and music world, too. kids "don't feel like" going, and the parents just let it go. last week, i felt so badly for our choral director: two choirs went to a competition, and one did not receive the rating they should have only because five out of eighteen singers decided they had things they'd rather be doing.....

 

last year, the dance studio presented a wonderful winter ballet of fairy tales, and were invited to perform at a school. it almost didn't happen because one of the leads "didn't want to". this year, there were understudies for every main roll, and miraculously, only one dancer wasn't able to meet her commitment.

 

sigh.... so unlike some sports teams, other commitments can actually hinge on just one child.....

 

but finding a discipline that works for disrespectful children can be tough. in our house, we start with withdrawing any and all media, as that seems to affect behavior all by itself....

 

fwiw,

ann

[elfgivas]

That being said, it would be nearly impossible to commit 100% completely to the team and still do some "normal" things like take a family vacation. In fact, our family vacation this year will be at a baseball tournament in Florida for my 16 year old son. At this level of competition and involvement, the coaches are aware of this and understand that there will be times when some other facet of the player's life will conflict with baseball. They keep this in mind when setting roster sizes, scheduling games, etc.

 

I would say that on his team, 90% of the players make more than 90% of the practices and games. However, I don't think there is a single player, the coach's son included, that has been to 100% of the practices and games. My son has sat out 1 practice for discipline. Otherwise, he's missed 2 games due to a scheduling conflict and maybe 2 practices.

 

I do agree that in general there is a lower level of commitment. I think it can be attributed to a lot of kids being involved in way too many activities that can demand equal levels of commitment.

 

this as well.... for dance, we build that in to requirements. so for the Alice in Wonderland Ballet, which is in rehearsal February-May, the dancers may each miss 2 rehearsals AND may also miss if they are performing elsewhere. but the last fortnight of rehearsals, they may not miss at all. so if they are sick, there go their two optional misses. if they stay well, then they can actually visit family for easter.... it wouldn't be so bad, but there is always at least one, if not two, ballets our girls are in rehearsal for, and it is Very Limiting. and now we have the choir director and the orchestra director planning rehearsals and performances around one another's schedules, our life is more possible. the ballet directors just do what they do.... we've also started being very clear with everyone about priorities: we don't miss performances for practices ever. when performances conflict, we dance first, sing second, play the violin third... all of the teachers know this up front. however, on a daily basis, violin gets done every day, and dancing and singing most days....

 

its a journey, for sure....

[MyLittleWonders]

I definitely lean towards what Spy Car is saying here ... we take our baseball (or other commitments) as agreeing to 100%, barring illness (and last year both older boys missed a game for dh's grandmother's 90th birthday - there was no way around the party that was scheduled). But, I can see Dad 4 Boys point of view when it comes to year-round baseball (or other commitment). Our oldest plays baseball virtually year round. We are assuming that will continue this year (our league is just beginning travel ball teams - last year was the first year and they still need to iron out some rough spots, but I'm pretty sure they will start back up again in July). We are also planning a road trip this summer (roughly 15 days) in which ds#1 will more than likely miss about a week (I would be shocked beyond shocked if his spring team makes the TOC, and then they tend to take an additional week off before gathering again for All Stars/travel ball, so based on last year there will only be about a week he might miss).

 

We love baseball. Our oldest loves to play. We don't use it as punishment (though we have been known to speak with his coach regarding issues like not completing schoolwork during the day or having a bad attitude and usually the coach speaks with him and/or has him do some extra running - just the thought of us speaking with his coach tends to help at home tremendously). But, we also have a life. During the spring, summer, and fall, we commit 100%. But, if there is something that we know is a family obligation (like I've said - the only thing last year was grandma's 90th, and this year is a family trip we are planning with my parents), we let it be known well in advance. Like Dad 4 Boys said ... there are extra kids on the roster for a reason. Our teams tend to keep 12 at all times. But, we don't miss for things like birthday parties, we don't purposely plan things like family events (birthday dinners, family get-togethers, etc.) during baseball games. If something is scheduled, we come late or leave early, usually in baseball gear. ;) We also don't miss because someone doesn't want to go or doesn't feel like going (and this goes for parents or child LOL). We make very, very few exceptions, make sure those exceptions are known to the coach well in advance, and otherwise honor our commitment to the team/organization. And for us, as I stated earlier in the thread, does not include poor behavior at home.

[RanchGirl]

I have never used team sports as a punishment. My kids are very athletic and I have felt that it would be punishing the rest of the team as well. That said, they would go and then come straight home. Chores and bed to immediatly follow. No after game treat, which is big in our family :D.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

I have many other options for consequences that wouldn't hurt the rest of the team.

[lionfamily1999]

That being said, it would be nearly impossible to commit 100% completely to the team and still do some "normal" things like take a family vacation. In fact, our family vacation this year will be at a baseball tournament in Florida for my 16 year old son. At this level of competition and involvement, the coaches are aware of this and understand that there will be times when some other facet of the player's life will conflict with baseball. They keep this in mind when setting roster sizes, scheduling games, etc.

 

I do agree that in general there is a lower level of commitment. I think it can be attributed to a lot of kids being involved in way too many activities that can demand equal levels of commitment.

:iagree: That and there's some backlash from the over hype with youth sports now. As a child I played t-ball (when I was a kid you started in 2nd grade). It was fun. We all enjoyed ourselves, the season was short and I never remember hearing a parent or coach flip out. Youngest ds is in T-Ball now. He's four, practices twice a week and has his first game Saturday. Many of the parents treat this like we're in the pros. I put off putting older ds in and learned my lesson. By first grade these kids are hitting balls out of the air and throwing (with accuracy) from third to first base. Oh, and their lives revolve around ball. Well, I stressed with older ds and he HATED baseball. So, for my little guy I'm very relaxed. He has problems knowing when to run and I refuse to let people scream at him. It's t-ball with pre-Kers for pity's sake!

 

So, maybe I don't agree completely. I think youth sports have taken on some bizarre life of their own and the parents/coaches forget that these are LITTLE KIDS. I think it all needs to be relaxed.

[Dad 4 Boys]

I guess I should consider myself lucky that my two serious baseball players are the types that never want to miss any of their practices or games regardless of the situation. If they happen to be sick or injured, we have to be the ones to hold them back if necessary.

 

It's difficult at times to tell them they can't go, especially when non-baseball things are planned in what were originally weekends off, and the coach decides to pick up an extra tournament.

 

Also, we don't participate in any activities like theatre where so much could ride on one person, so that aspect hasn't been a problem for us.

[Mommy22alyns]

I consider the girls' sports to be commitments as well.

[woolybear]

:iagree: I put off putting older ds in and learned my lesson. By first grade these kids are hitting balls out of the air and throwing (with accuracy) from third to first base. Oh, and their lives revolve around ball.

Getting a little OT here, but I put off putting my older ds in too. I didn't think it was great to start competitive sports too young. Well, he is suffering for it now. He started baseball at age 10. He is going in to his second season and is definitely behind in skills what most of the other kids can do. he loves the sport, but I'm afraid he will stop enjoying it soon and won't be able to go as far with it, as he might've had he started younger. I hope it doesn't take too great a toll on his confidence.

[lionfamily1999]

Getting a little OT here, but I put off putting my older ds in too. I didn't think it was great to start competitive sports too young. Well, he is suffering for it now. He started baseball at age 10. He is going in to his second season and is definitely behind in skills what most of the other kids can do. he loves the sport, but I'm afraid he will stop enjoying it soon and won't be able to go as far with it, as he might've had he started younger. I hope it doesn't take too great a toll on his confidence.

Ds started at the ripe old age of six. He'll play with us now and has taken a funny sweet mentoring position over his little brother. All the same, he refuses to play team sports. None of them, here, are fun. They're all dead serious, start training well before the season opener and even for little Luke's age they treat it like the be all end all. I just hope Luke can continue enjoying it, in spite of the rabid adults (who make rabid kids). I do think that we, as parents, have a lot more sway than we think. I would get stressed out when they'd scream at Drew and in turn, he got stressed out. I think, from what I've seen of the parents that stay relaxed, their kids don't seem to get so psychotic over the sport.

[Dad 4 Boys]

I feel for you families that don't have a wide spectrum of competitive levels to choose from when it comes to team sports for your kids. We live in the St. Louis suburbs, and for baseball you can find any level of competition from very recreational beginners to absolutely high level competition.

 

This is especially true at the younger ages. I know young kids playing in leagues that are mostly just for fun, and I also know kids the same age that are playing in highly competitive situations that can cost into the thousands of dollars per year.

 

The wildcard is usually whether the kid really wants to do it or whether their parents are the ones wanting them to do it.

 

Speaking for my two oldest, they have always wanted to play as much as possible and at the highest level. That doesn't always work with our family schedule, so we've had to compromise on level and schedule. Now, Chelle in MO might not totally agree with that statement. However, until this year we haven't travelled much. That's somewhat new for us this season.

[KrissiK]

All the same, he refuses to play team sports. None of them, here, are fun. They're all dead serious, start training well before the season opener and even for little Luke's age they treat it like the be all end all. I just hope Luke can continue enjoying it, in spite of the rabid adults (who make rabid kids). I do think that we, as parents, have a lot more sway than we think. I would get stressed out when they'd scream at Drew and in turn, he got stressed out. I think, from what I've seen of the parents that stay relaxed, their kids don't seem to get so psychotic over the sport.

 

That's too bad. We live in a pretty small town, but we have a good youth sports program. We've done 2 seasons of soccer, and we're on our 1st season with Little League and 2nd with t-ball for DS2. We have not had a bad experience. All the coaches and parents we've dealt with have been wonderful. They do take the game seriously, but not too seriously. I've never heard a child yelled at by coaches or parents and it's all been very positive. They do start the kids young here, too, but it doesn't seem from my perspective to be competetive in an unhealthy way.