After that, I guess I can't fail that miserably at educating my children...

[mommymilkies]

I had an amazing 6th grade teacher who thoroughly covered the Civil War through WWII. I think I have retained more from that class than most others in my 17 years of schooling!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ds13 told me the answers in excruciatingly accurate details.

 

Dd9 (who has studied WWI so far this year but not WWII) told me that we fought the Germans in WWI. She thought it was during the 1930's but she definitely knew that it was not in the 1800's. I then asked her about WWII (which remember, she hasn't studied yet). She knew that we fought Japan and Germany. She didn't know when.

[RahRah]

How can you RESEARCH a historical event and not know when it was???

 

Wikipedia? :tongue_smilie:

[lakotajm]

I find that surprising because even if they hadn't learned it thoroughly in school wouldn't they have learned that from their (great?) grandparents? I had a LOT of relatives who were in WWII. I don't think I could have been raised in my family and not known much about it.

Not necessarily. First off, it probably would have been their great-grandparents (so probably dead).

 

Also, my grandfather was in World War II and came back with PTSS. He did not like to talk about the war because of how horrible it was. So if you asked him, he would change the subject. He even hid his purple heart!

 

My FIL is the same way about the Korean War. It seems the big mouths are the ones who saw little of the nitty gritty from what I gather. Those who saw the disgusting, inhumane side of it would rather try to forget it.

 

Lakota

[annlaura]

My sister is a TA for an undergrad class and sent me this tidbit from a paper she was grading: "Cook County, a suburb of Chicago, ......" :lol: She said she was amazed at how poor some of the writing was.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I am in college right now and in a college level research writing class. You would fall over dead if you could see the atrocious writing, spelling, grammar, etc. My first grader knows how to capitalize the letter "I"!!!! We have to respond back to so many posts and unfortunately "huh???" isn't a good response because that is what I want to post most days. My sentences aren't always perfect on an internet board but even their papers (that we pick one a week and review) are HORRIBLE!

I would not want to be a college professor...I would flunk them all!

Just four months after I came to the US as an immigrant from a non-English speaking country, I started teaching English grammar and writing in a college. I was shocked at how bad the native speakers' (white and black alike) grammar and writing were. I did not enjoy teaching the students, most of whom didn't care about learning and didn't put efforts in their work.

At the same time I took classes in the evening to get a teaching license. I, just like you, was even more shocked when I found out during peer editing how poorly my American classmates did their research papers. One classmate got a C, which made my As more valid and valuable. (I used to think most students got As).

[abacus2]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge about even WWII. You don't need to learn about it in school to know when it was or who we fought. You just need to read books or watch movies or engage others in serious conversations occasionally.

[Sugarfoot]

Last night, in my Christian Spirituality class (in *graduate school*), the Professor "had" to give a summary review of how to write a thesis statement, break out elements and support each element in body paragraphs, tying everything to the thesis.

 

Really?

 

:ohmy: These weren't counseling students, were they? Please say, "NO!" When I was in graduate school, my professors would have DIED if anyone had asked them to do that. A master's/PhD level counseling student writes A LOT, and I can't imagine anyone even getting to that point who couldn't write well before they got there. Wow...

[Joanne]

:ohmy: These weren't counseling students, were they? Please say, "NO!" When I was in graduate school, my professors would have DIED if anyone had asked them to do that. A master's/PhD level counseling student writes A LOT, and I can't imagine anyone even getting to that point who couldn't write well before they got there. Wow...

 

A mix of counseling and M.Div students. Since I attend a seminary, counseling students are required to take a number of theological courses. This course is required for the theological degree plans.

 

I go to a graduate level seminary. As a whole, I've noticed a lowered standard and expectation. If I were forced to admit it, I'd have to say that their is a higher percentage of academic incompetency in the theological side of the seminary.

 

No one asked the Professor to go over basic essay design. She's learned from experience that some of her students will need it.

 

I work in the library as an assistant, and in that capacity, I see a lot of papers. I'm stunned frequently.

 

What is sad, though, is that I've heard similar stories about University of Houston and other settings.

[Sugarfoot]

A mix of counseling and M.Div students. Since I attend a seminary, counseling students are required to take a number of theological courses. This course is required for the theological degree plans.

 

I go to a graduate level seminary. As a whole, I've noticed a lowered standard and expectation. If I were forced to admit it, I'd have to say that their is a higher percentage of academic incompetency in the theological side of the seminary.

 

No one asked the Professor to go over basic essay design. She's learned from experience that some of her students will need it.

 

I work in the library as an assistant, and in that capacity, I see a lot of papers. I'm stunned frequently.

 

What is sad, though, is that I've heard similar stories about University of Houston and other settings.

 

Wow, I truly am shocked by this! I guess I've just been out-of-the-loop too long.

 

On another note, I hope your program is going well!:)

[LaissezFaire]

Wow. I am a history nerd so that boggles my mind. I shouldn't be surprised I suppose. I don't think history gets it's fair share of time in the world where technology and science are at the forefront.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Last night, in my Christian Spirituality class (in *graduate school*), the Professor "had" to give a summary review of how to write a thesis statement, break out elements and support each element in body paragraphs, tying everything to the thesis.

 

Really?

 

My dd's professor spent a whole class on apostrophe usage. It was not a composition class. ~sigh~

[Annabel Lee]

My dd14 didn't know who Stalin or Lenin were when mentioned in a discussion earlier this month. They (her schools & teachers, all along) totally skipped anything about Soviet communism. I had to point her to the DK Illustrated History Encyc. on my shelf. :/

[ocelotmom]

Not necessarily. First off, it probably would have been their great-grandparents (so probably dead).

 

Also, my grandfather was in World War II and came back with PTSS. He did not like to talk about the war because of how horrible it was. So if you asked him, he would change the subject. He even hid his purple heart!

A lot of them should have been around for long enough to be memorable, at least. There are a fair amount of WWII survivors left, and there were a lot more 10 years ago. But people tend not to have as close a relationship with great-grandparents as grandparents.

 

And yes, both my grandparents were WWII vets, and I heard next to nothing about their experiences.

 

I just asked my 7 year old if he knew when WWII took place. His first guess was 91 years ago, modified to 71 when I pointed out that soldiers are adults. We haven't formally studied WWII yet. This really doesn't seem like a question that anyone should get wrong by centuries.

 

I don't feel my public school history education was all that horrible. I can recall covering most everything (though we touched on many things pretty briefly). But really, the stuff I remember best is from fiction books I read on my own. Everything else just kind of went in one ear and out the other. Hence my attraction to literature-based curriculums :)

Edited March 24, 2011 by ocelotmom

[sleepymommy]

I have to say I'm not completely surprised. The only reason I know is because I've alway enjoyed reading history books.

 

We never covered modern history in class either. Civil War-check, dumbed down world history-check, government-check, Iraq war-check. The only reason the Iraq war was covered was because my 7th grade homeroom teacher insisted on us making a scrapbook of newspaper articles. So the time spent on that was just those few minutes of homeroom.

[Perry]

I find that surprising because even if they hadn't learned it thoroughly in school wouldn't they have learned that from their (great?) grandparents? I had a LOT of relatives who were in WWII. I don't think I could have been raised in my family and not known much about it.

All my great grandparents were dead before I was born. I met my maternal grandfather 2 or 3 times, and my paternal grandfather maybe 5 times in my life. I don't even know if they were veterans.

 

I don't know how common this is, but I don't think it's unusual for kids to have very little contact with grandparents. It's sad, and I hope it's different for my kids. :crying:

[brehon]

I watched something about Texas and early America the other day, I think it was a Ken Burn's video from Netflix. I didn't know, and don't remember learning about, Texas actually declared itself it's own country right before the civil war and Sam Houston was it's leader! The U.S. didn't want Texas as a state because they thought it would tip the favor to the south and slave owners.

 

As a 6th generation native Texan and self proclaimed history nerd I had to comment on this. I'm not sure what history program you watched; but, it was sadly misinformed. Texas was a republic from 1836 (when it won its independance from Mexico) to 1845 (when it joined the US). Sam Houston was the first president and the last elected president of the Republic of Texas. [The last president was actually Dr. Anson Jones - he was appointed by Houston to complete the accession.] Sam Houston was govenor of the state of Texas while secession was being debated. He was adamantly against secession and was impeached by the Leg.

 

There were some northern senators who were against Texas becoming a state for just the reason you mention. There were southern senators who were in favor of Texas joining the Union. Most of the men who had fought in the Texas Independance War and formed the first government were for joining the Union. There were several prominant men who were against it, however, which is one reason why it took almost 10 years for Texas to become a state.

 

There is still a building in London which used to be a restaurant. It may still be; but, I haven't been in London for a long time. Anyway, that building was the embassay for the Republic of Texas. The restaurant went by the same name.

[waa510]

That is so awful, although in my own school career, we never made it past the Industrial Revolution. I never had a course in modern history and I went to a very prestigious, expensive high school in New England. I had to learn the material for myself, in order to pass the two U.S. History CLEP tests so I could graduate college a year early (long story).

 

I hope to give my children a *much* stronger background in history than I had.

[Mrs Mungo]

There is still a building in London which used to be a restaurant. It may still be; but, I haven't been in London for a long time. Anyway, that building was the embassay for the Republic of Texas. The restaurant went by the same name.

 

My dh is from Texas and we've eaten at the Texas Embassy restaurant. It was a steakhouse back then, looks like it's a Mexican restaurant now. :tongue_smilie:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My sister is a TA for an undergrad class and sent me this tidbit from a paper she was grading: "Cook County, a suburb of Chicago, ......" :lol: She said she was amazed at how poor some of the writing was.

 

This one I can actually understand. There are many cities that are surrounded by other cities, towns and then unincorporated county areas. There isn't a city or town name to give to use with the unincorporated areas, so it may just get called by the county name.

 

For example, Cincinnati is in Hamilton County, Ohio. But it wouldn't be uncommon to read a newspaper article about trash collection or law enforcement referred to Hamilton County and meant only areas not within some city limits (or townships in the case of Ohio).

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This is why my 4 year history sequence ALWAYS takes 5-6 years...sigh! I always end up spending an entire year on the 1800's and then another or so on the 20th - NOW. A lot has happened in that timespan, and I want my kids to understand the effect on our world and why things are panning out the way they do.

 

Faithe

 

There is just so much interesting and relevant information to learn. For example, the roots of many of the conflicts in the Middle East were sown around World War I.

 

You can better understand what Japan is currently going through if you know something about Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the 1923 Great Kanto Earthquake.

 

If you know about those events then you start asking questions about the future (will they shun nuclear power, will they be more or less likely to continue forward deployment of a nuclear US aircraft carrier, will the government fall due to a perceived poor response, if you think that the Kanto earthquake contributed to military imperialism what effect might this earthquake have?)

 

I asked my kids the original questions this morning. They did well (although the oldest got a little confused after answering Germany for WWI and couldn't come up with other countries that we fought). Of course they still remember touring WWI and WWII battlefields and living in Pearl Harbor and Japan.

 

But I was most pleased with the 8yo. He came over and asked how we could have been allies with Japan in WWI but then enemies of them in WWII. Now that question could keep us busy all morning.

[regentrude]

I don't think history gets it's fair share of time in the world where technology and science are at the forefront.

 

But they don't learn anything about science and technology either.

When I ask my students (science and engineering majors) about Kepler's laws of planetary motion, only a third has heard about them.

When I ask my biology majors whether they know how a microscope works, they shake their heads.

[Laura Corin]

Calvin got it.

 

Laura

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My dd14 didn't know who Stalin or Lenin were when mentioned in a discussion earlier this month. They (her schools & teachers, all along) totally skipped anything about Soviet communism. I had to point her to the DK Illustrated History Encyc. on my shelf. :/

 

Ah yes, let's just glide over a movement that I would argue was one of the top five defining elements of the 20th century.:willy_nilly: (WHERE is the head smacking smilie??)

 

How on earth do you understand what is going on in the world if you don't have a passing familiarity with this stuff? (And that goes for science and math too.)

 

But then DH's been known to assign biographies of Stalin or Mao as extra work when a kid gets out of line. (With an oral report at the end of the book.)

 

You know, I remember there was a student a year ahead of me in college. He was widely acclaimed as being incredibly brilliant. He derived a new application of the Universal Gas Law that so impressed the college profs that they were helping him submit it to the proper scientific bodies for evaluation.

 

I remember hearing a story that one of his classmates asked him how he had gotten so smart, and his reply was that his family always ate dinner together and talked about lots and lots of topics. It may be that the family and what happens within it really cannot be replaced in a consistent way with what happens in classroom time.

[Perry]

But they don't learn anything about science and technology either.

But they can make posters! And rap lyrics!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

But they can make posters! And rap lyrics!

 

Ah, the multiple intelligence practitioners that missed the vital element of content.

[blondeviolin]

Honestly, that's sad. I'm a college student and I could very easily tell you the years the wars took place and the major players. But most of my schooling was done in gifted CA schools where we spent one year on American history and one year on world history alternating since fifth grade.

 

I'm taking a modern European history class and am amazed at some of the answers or thoughts that my classmates write down. And it is ONLINE, so it's not like they couldn't have done a bit of research to make sure they were answering the question correctly (and not in lolzspeak).

[ocelotmom]

I'm taking a modern European history class and am amazed at some of the answers or thoughts that my classmates write down. And it is ONLINE, so it's not like they couldn't have done a bit of research to make sure they were answering the question correctly (and not in lolzspeak).

 

That is why I hate online classes!

[TeacherZee]

My high school was just the opposite--we spent tons of time in modern, next to nothing in any other period. I learned all about the conflicts in the Middle East, the two World Wars and spent a lot of time on all the stuff that went along with the Great Depression.

 

Never heard a thing about Egypt, Greece, Rome, Middle Ages, Renaissance, Civil War. I'm pretty sure we learned something about the American Revolutionary period, but I'm not recalling it right now. I graduated in 2000.

 

:iagree:This is me, only I graduated in 2001 and not in the US. We did spend time on earlier history in elementary and early middle school but junior high and high school was all 20th Century. I will say though that it was a wide span. We mainly did Europe (I'm in Europe) but we also dipped into China, the Middle East and Cuba. So I can answer the years of the different world wars and I can write detailed papers analysing causes and effects of them and how one caused the other. I can also write a decent paper on the causes of the Russian revolution. I might have some issues with the exact dates of the Korean and Vietnam wars but I can place them in the correct decades. :001_smile:

 

Not necessarily. First off, it probably would have been their great-grandparents (so probably dead).

 

Also, my grandfather was in World War II and came back with PTSS. He did not like to talk about the war because of how horrible it was. So if you asked him, he would change the subject. He even hid his purple heart!

 

My FIL is the same way about the Korean War. It seems the big mouths are the ones who saw little of the nitty gritty from what I gather. Those who saw the disgusting, inhumane side of it would rather try to forget it.

 

Lakota

 

:iagree:My grandfather fought at the battle of the Bulge and was at Normandy and won a medal (which one it is escapes me right now, it's midnight here). He only ever told my uncle what happened and the uncle was roaring drunk at the time and can't remember.

 

 

You know, I remember there was a student a year ahead of me in college. He was widely acclaimed as being incredibly brilliant. He derived a new application of the Universal Gas Law that so impressed the college profs that they were helping him submit it to the proper scientific bodies for evaluation.

 

I remember hearing a story that one of his classmates asked him how he had gotten so smart, and his reply was that his family always ate dinner together and talked about lots and lots of topics. It may be that the family and what happens within it really cannot be replaced in a consistent way with what happens in classroom time.

 

:iagree:I teach high school English (of the ESL variety but still) and I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end...but me and two colleagues were discussing the general lack of knowledge of facts today. As well as the poor language skills of some of our students and we put much of this down to the fact that a) parents don't read to their students and b) families don't sit down to dinner and talk to the same extent. We might be completely off base here but...they have both worked as teachers for a long time and they both said that they have noticed a marked difference in the vocabulary of their students.

[Annabel Lee]

Ah yes, let's just glide over a movement that I would argue was one of the top five defining elements of the 20th century.:willy_nilly: (WHERE is the head smacking smilie??)

 

How on earth do you understand what is going on in the world if you don't have a passing familiarity with this stuff? (And that goes for science and math too.)

 

But then DH's been known to assign biographies of Stalin or Mao as extra work when a kid gets out of line. (With an oral report at the end of the book.)

 

You know, I remember there was a student a year ahead of me in college. He was widely acclaimed as being incredibly brilliant. He derived a new application of the Universal Gas Law that so impressed the college profs that they were helping him submit it to the proper scientific bodies for evaluation.

 

I remember hearing a story that one of his classmates asked him how he had gotten so smart, and his reply was that his family always ate dinner together and talked about lots and lots of topics. It may be that the family and what happens within it really cannot be replaced in a consistent way with what happens in classroom time.

 

I have heard that lightly glazing over that particular topic, communism, is fairly common nowdays in the U.S. Is this true in anyone else's experience?

 

Yes, the family will be taking care of dd's history knowledge gaps. My dad is a history buff, with so much random knowledge about history rabbit trails it is a shame that it goes unshared. He's always "too busy", but I plan to lure he & my brother with food (mwahahahaha!), and my mom with the day off from cooking & dishes. Sunday afternoon dinner w/ extended family (what little we have up here) will become a regular happening.