Daisy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) For those interested in how everything has turned out so far. Here is the original thread. My husband has spent the last two weeks talking back and forth with the staff at our church. Today, he took the youth pastor and junior high leader out for lunch. The Good... 1) HALO 3 and card game were quickly axed by the senior pastor. The pastor had a meeting with the youth pastor (We have no idea what was said). 2) Youth pastor apologized for allowing it to go on & acknowledged it wasn't the best idea. 3) The youth pastor was able to share his vision and goals for youth group with my husband and the lunch went really well. He "says" the right things. 4) The youth pastor shared how he feels most parents could care less about what is going on in youth group. They drop their kids and run. He voiced a desire to have greater parental involvement and oversight (Well, he sure would get that with us. LOL). 5) The fact that our senior pastor put an end to the games is hugely comforting. We feel like at least the staff heard our concerns and looked into the matter. The Bad... 1) Until he had a chance to get his story straight he told parents what he thought they want to hear. (I.E. He told one parent he didn't have a clue what was in HALO and was surprised. He told us he has been playing it for years but always with the sound down. He told a third parent that he had no problem with the video game at all.) We are just having a hard time trusting him and we can't decide if he is just young and reactive or if he is downright deceptive. 2)They have now decided to convert their garage into a "ministry" room complete with flat screen tvs, video games, etc. So honestly, my guess is that they've just decided to move their activities to their own home. Not completely bad as at least kids have the choice to attend of not, but still feels a bit like they are saying what we want to hear just so we'll get off their backs. The Ugly... 1) His wife has demonstrated a lack of maturity by "going off" on FB about how she is so glad she doesn't parent out of fear. Blah, blah, blah. Not exactly the type of woman I want influencing my soon-to-be teen daughter. I know this youth pastor's wife will grow and mature. I guess I'm just AMAZED. I grew up in a minister's home and man, you kept your mouth shut about people you had issues with. Edited March 11, 2011 by Daisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm sorry Daisy. It doesn't really sound like the good is outweighing the not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Ewww. Sorry to hear about the bad and the ugly. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Bravo for the senior pastor! Some major flags still on the youth pastor for me. I agree that he's doing an end run around parents by having it in the garage - "My house, my rules", you know. The wife's attitude probably reflects the husband's (yes - I know not all the time, but if he felt really differently he most likely would have helped her to see it differently too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 It is hard because the youth pastor and his wife are SO YOUNG. Sigh. Husband is torn between just letting our daughter go and making sure we are big-time involved and saying, "Uh, my kid isn't going to be the guinea pig experiment for your growing up years." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) It still doesn't sound like this is going in a great direction. I would take screenshots of the FB commentary and bring it back to the pastor. I wouldn't trust them with my kids. They sound extremely immature and deceptive. I do not think they would be appropriate leaders for kids. Honestly my bar is lower than most people's, if I wouldn't be ok with it then it REALLY isn't ok. :lol: Edited March 11, 2011 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It is hard because the youth pastor and his wife are SO YOUNG. Sigh. This is the thing that my hubby and i just don't get. We can't think of any job in ministry more important OR more difficult than shepherding teens. Then, why do most churches hand that job off to the most inexperienced people? :001_huh: Honestly, we don't know a single family that has had children completely involved in youth groups that have remained on a good path. All the kids we know that tried youth group and hated it, have turned out just fine though. ;) (I am sure there are some WTM'ers that have perfectly lovely teens involved in youth groups.:D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 This is the thing that my hubby and i just don't get. We can't think of any job in ministry more important OR more difficult than shepherding teens. Then, why do most churches hand that job off to the most inexperienced people? :001_huh: Honestly, we don't know a single family that has had children completely involved in youth groups that have remained on a good path. All the kids we know that tried youth group and hated it, have turned out just fine though. ;) (I am sure there are some WTM'ers that have perfectly lovely teens involved in youth groups.:D) I do think it is important that the people can relate to kids. Some people are just not good with kids no matter what their age and visa versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I do think it is important that the people can relate to kids. Hmm. That is an interesting perspective. I always figured it was just a low wage thing, but you are right, they are probably hoping the young youth pastor and teens will have more in common. To me it is just the blind leading the blind though. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The Bad... 1) Until he had a chance to get his story straight he told parents what he thought they want to hear. (I.E. He told one parent he didn't have a clue what was in HALO and was surprised. He told us he has been playing it for years but always with the sound down. He told a third parent that he had no problem with the video game at all.) We are just having a hard time trusting him and we can't decide if he is just young and reactive or if he is downright deceptive. Hmmm. He could be two-faced and saying what will not get him in trouble? Not a great trait if he is going into ministry... but then again, I know lots of flawed church leaders. Aiiyyyeeee. ;) 2)They have now decided to convert their garage into a "ministry" room complete with flat screen tvs, video games, etc. So honestly, my guess is that they've just decided to move their activities to their own home. Not completely bad as at least kids have the choice to attend of not, but still feels a bit like they are saying what we want to hear just so we'll get off their backs. There you go. His true nature reveals itself. He does come across as selfish and wanting the kids to like him for the "frills" -- things parents are worried about like the ratings on HALO. I'd suspect he deals with some rebellion against authority figures. Or he really is superficial/arrogant and thinks the way to the Gospel is getting the kiddos to hang out at his home with stuff that parents may have a problem with morally. To which, the Senior Pastor needs to deal with him -- it is more of a character issue, IMO. The Ugly... 1) His wife has demonstrated a lack of maturity by "going off" on FB about how she is so glad she doesn't parent out of fear. Blah, blah, blah. Not exactly the type of woman I want influencing my soon-to-be teen daughter. I know this youth pastor's wife will grow and mature. I guess I'm just AMAZED. I grew up in a minister's home and man, you kept your mouth shut about people you had issues with. Yup. See? The fruit from this couple? Rotten to the core if her first emotional reaction is to go to her FB page and vent this publicly. When we were in leadership -- something like this (actions of a spouse) can get the Pastor disciplined or fired. Again, it is showing their heart is not right as a leader of young children/teens. They both sound VERY immature. If it were me, I'd show the Senior Pastor her FB page -- wow. :confused: (And yes, years from now, when she has teens... she will realize her foolish behavior.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) It is hard because the youth pastor and his wife are SO YOUNG. Sigh. Husband is torn between just letting our daughter go and making sure we are big-time involved and saying, "Uh, my kid isn't going to be the guinea pig experiment for your growing up years." It isn't age that is an issue - my brother was the "youth pastor" at a parish at the age of 23! None of this would have gone on at ALL and he most certainly worked hard not to usurp the authority of the parents. Call it immaturity, which can come at pretty much any age. ETA: Now, at 27, he is the Director of Field Operations for a large Catholic youth organization - he didn't get the original position as "youth pastor" because he was cheap, but rather because of his vision for youth and adherence to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Edited March 11, 2011 by Renee in FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Oh, ouch. I'm so sorry, Daisy. ... There are definitely issues there that would have me seriously concerned. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 This is the thing that my hubby and i just don't get. We can't think of any job in ministry more important OR more difficult than shepherding teens. Then, why do most churches hand that job off to the most inexperienced people? :001_huh: Honestly, we don't know a single family that has had children completely involved in youth groups that have remained on a good path. All the kids we know that tried youth group and hated it, have turned out just fine though. ;) (I am sure there are some WTM'ers that have perfectly lovely teens involved in youth groups.:D) Basically, serving the church in this capacity is the low man on the "totem pole". No one wants to lead Sunday School or Youth Group. It is a lot of work. Many ministers start in this position with the intention of one day being Assistant or Senior Pastor in many denominations. Sort of like paying your dues, kwim? Not every Youth Group leader is born to be a great leader -- just ambitious souls who crave power in a church setting rather than be evangelical for eternal souls. In some rare situations, I have found a true DCE who is gifted to lead a Youth Group. But that type of person is hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It isn't age that is an issue - my brother was the "youth pastor" at a parish at the age of 23! None of this would have gone on at ALL and he most certainly worked hard not to usurp the authority of the parents. Call it immaturity, which can come at pretty much any age. :iagree: My youth pastor growing up was young and just out of college. He wasn't even married yet, just dating. He was great! We didn't even have a tv in our youth center and he wasn't all about just the fun stuff. It's not the age -- they're just lacking maturity and shouldn't be taking on so much until they get a bit more perspective. I wouldn't want my kids hanging out in their garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 2)They have now decided to convert their garage into a "ministry" room complete with flat screen tvs, video games, etc. So honestly, my guess is that they've just decided to move their activities to their own home. Not completely bad as at least kids have the choice to attend of not, but still feels a bit like they are saying what we want to hear just so we'll get off their backs. Does this mean they will allow whatever they want, including games like this, because it's at their house? They could say it's not an official church youth group meeting and hope to get away with it. I guess I'm just AMAZED. I grew up in a minister's home and man, you kept your mouth shut about people you had issues with. I agree (grew up in a minister's house too). The reason we were allowed to hear the "dirt," so to speak, of what went on in the church (not all of it, of course), was because we kept our mouths shut and didn't repeat any of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Basically, serving the church in this capacity is the low man on the "totem pole". No one wants to lead Sunday School or Youth Group. It is a lot of work. Many ministers start in this position with the intention of one day being Assistant or Senior Pastor in many denominations. Sort of like paying your dues, kwim? Not every Youth Group leader is born to be a great leader -- just ambitious souls who crave power in a church setting rather than be evangelical for eternal souls. In some rare situations, I have found a true DCE who is gifted to lead a Youth Group. But that type of person is hard to find. That may be the difference - as a Catholic, my married brother wasn't paying his dues for the priesthood!:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 That may be the difference - as a Catholic, my married brother wasn't paying his dues for the priesthood!:lol: ;) Touche'... lol... good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I would gather my kiddos up like a puffed up mother hen and scoot. ETA- for the record, my boys play that free halo game all the time, but your youth guy doesn't sound on the level to me. Course, I've only ran into one that did so......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Amanda~ Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I would gather my kiddos up like a puffed up mother hen and scoot. ETA- for the record, my boys play that free halo game all the time, but your youth guy doesn't sound on the level to me. Course, I've only ran into one that did so......... This is totally OT, but I have to say, you remind me SO MUCH of a mama around here I used to hang with. :D its weird because sometimes I think of you as her, and I have to remind myself your not her. LOL OP, I'm sorry about the situation, my husband plays halo, and we don't let the kids in here. and I think the thing about the younger people leading the younger people, I think, is a connection thing. young people want to be around people who they think "get it", and they think most older people just don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It is hard because the youth pastor and his wife are SO YOUNG. Sigh. Husband is torn between just letting our daughter go and making sure we are big-time involved and saying, "Uh, my kid isn't going to be the guinea pig experiment for your growing up years." Gah! Isn't this the truth???? Why do parents want to hand over their children to someone who has no experience raising children???? Now, the one guy we didn't have a problem with has children younger than ours, and the guy that taught our Sunday catechism program did too, but I really believe that they are few and far between. Our teens currently do not participate in our church's youth program, and not solely because of the distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 ;) Touche'... lol... good point! Well, let me put it this way. My brother was an estimator for a large landscaping firm in NC. One of his groomsmen moved to FL with Young Life. YL was in the Catholic schools there, and the Bishop asked his friend if he knew of any *Catholic* YL leaders. My brother was probably the only one in the country! (YL is evangelical and my brother converted to Catholicism *after* he got involved with YL.) My brother was called for an interview and he went, figuring there was NO way they would hire him - he only had a 2-year degree (in landscaping) and he was 23, but that an all-expenses paid weekend in FL was worth it. They hired him.:001_huh: We figure that ministry is where God wanted him the whole time, he just didn't know it.;) Turns out he *is* one of those gifted leaders, was recruited for the position he is in now, and leaves for CO next month to expand his work in his current postion and to get a Masters in Theology. My brother the landscaper. Who, BTW, was an awesome landscaper, too.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfinbaby Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I would be very discouraged about the road ahead. It really is surprising (after reading it in this thread) that most churches do delegate the job of Youth Ministry to someone so young. When I was four, a 19 yr. old was leading the youth in our church - my sisters were in the youth group. Interestingly enough, I enjoyed going (they mostly sang - this was a long time ago when "boring" youth groups were acceptable) and the leader welcomed me. That was 32 yrs. ago and he has been a huge influence on my Christian life (he was also my piano teacher and History teacher:)). He pastors a church now and, when I'm home, I go visit with him. He has always kept "entertainment" completely separate from his youth ministry. He doesn't "lure" young folks in with ice cream and pizza then try and read God's Word. Nothing wrong with that - it's just his take on things. I know you would expect that this method would not attract many youth, however, he started a prayer meeting at his home when I was in high school (I was dating a non-Christian boy and he was anxious to lead him to God - that's the true reason he started it). That prayer meeting lasted for years and it was standing room only. We went, we prayed, we read God's word, we discussed it, there was nothing dramatic about it, and we closed with prayer. Those were good days. We'd sit there till 11 pm some (school!) nights. The only reason it ended was because the school (he was still teaching) and some non-religious parents went after him. They were so wrong for causing the trouble they did for him and his heart was broken since he felt so strongly about leading youth to God. He impacted more young people than he knew I think. He's always said Jesus and the Bible are enough. While I think that is true, I credit his non-judgmental attitude, his frankness and his ability to bring out the Truth to drawing in so many young people. He really brought the Bible to life. It probably helps that he is ridiculously intelligent, a history teacher, and knowledgeable about so many subjects that add color to the context of Scripture. I'm going home for spring break and can't wait to visit with him.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It is hard because the youth pastor and his wife are SO YOUNG. Sigh. Husband is torn between just letting our daughter go and making sure we are big-time involved and saying, "Uh, my kid isn't going to be the guinea pig experiment for your growing up years." It is so weird that 'young' seems to be the only requirement for youth ministry. My teens have been Christians more than twice as long as their 'leader'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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