Profanity

[Mrs Mungo]

Is your husband a pastor? If so does he deliver sermons laced with profanities? If not, why not?

 

Just because it doesn't bother some people doesn't mean they don't recognize the sensibilities of others or that there's a time and place for everything.

[Murphy101]

I don't think the issue is that anyone wants to actually HEAR profanity.

I think the issue is rather the principle: how does anybody else get to decide what is offensive to me?

 

:iagree:

I'll admit it. I swear.

 

I'd like to believe that I do it because it's the way I grew up. It's a hard habit to break! If I get on the phone with my mother or my brother -- fuggitaboutit.

 

It's not a lack of education, vocabulary, or creativity on my part. At least, I'd like to believe that it's not. :D It's just one of those habits that dies hard. Really, really hard.

 

Me too. My dh says he knows the minute he gets home if I have spoken to a member of my family.:blushing:

 

Eta: I have taken to sounding like a moron to over compensate. It IS very hard to stop saying those words, so I try to replace them with jibberish. I'm very fond of twiddle! And farfignewgin! ;D

 

Again, this might be me not having the same definition of profanity that others have. D**n, h**l, c**p are not unheard of around here. Lately, it's fat rat b******s that has escaped a few times. But what we term profanity isn't heard around here. But then somebody might think my h**l is a profanity. And that doesn't mean I want to hear even swearing all the time on TV. In context, and not overplayed, it's okay.

 

This too. What some people consider profanity is a bit extreme imnsho. I will never forget the matron in a previous home school group who said my use of the phrase, "that sucks" was profane and offensive. Um. No it isn't. Being over sexualized and seeing it in every phrase is far more perverse, IMO. She asked how I would finish the phrase. I responded in all honesty that I had always connected it to "suck eggs"!

 

And the claim that the smarter, more educated and refined don't cuss is absolute pure hogwash.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Martha

[simka2]

Is your husband a pastor? If so does he deliver sermons laced with profanities? If not, why not?

 

Why the question? Did I ever say I thought profanity was pertinent to every venue. I just said it wasn't new. I don't know what your issue is with me, but jeesh! :tongue_smilie:

[Melinda in VT]

I don't like to hear God's name taken in vain, to the extent that when I watched TLC shows with "reveals" I used to mute the show during the initial reaction to the new room or whatever.

 

I'm not as bothered by other swear words, although I don't typically swear myself.

 

There are a lot of words that used to be shocking that are just regular words now. I think we are in the middle of a language shift. Certain swear words are rapidly losing their shock value, and when that happens, can you really call them swear words anymore?

[secular_mom]

 

 

 

 

This too. What some people consider profanity is a bit extreme imnsho. I will never forget the matron in a previous home school group who said my use of the phrase, "that sucks" was profane and offensive. Um. No it isn't. Being over sexualized and seeing it in every phrase is far more perverse, IMO. She asked how I would finish the phrase. I responded in all honesty that I had always connected it to "suck eggs"!

 

And the claim that the smarter, more educated and refined don't cuss is absolute pure hogwash.

:iagree: And I must say that seeing people label people as 'having no class' is much more vulgar/brutish behavior than hearing someone tell another to eff off, IMO. Honestly, I always think that the people who apply the labels of having class or not are the ones who have it not. :tongue_smilie:

[justamouse]

Shakespeare was a lot more lewd in his own time than it is typically read now. There is only one friend of young Hal (Henry V) from Henry IV parts one and two who doesn't die by the end of Henry V. It was Pistol. He was the queen's favorite character. Part of the reason he was so popular is at the time his name sounded like p!ss.

 

You can say Eminem is no Shakespeare, but Shakespeare was just food for the masses at the time. There are Greek plays bemoaning the state of the younger generation. At one time Balzac couldn't be found on a decent library's shelf, and yet his works influenced *many* of the great modern writers.

 

eta: In short? This is the song that never it ends, it goes on and on my friends...

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

 

some people, started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...

[Joanne]

I value vocabulary, creative speech, entertainment and banter.

 

I find the frequent use of "dude" or "like" to be in poor taste as much as I do the *overuse* of swear, cuss or vulgar words.

 

Where I disagree with most people in this thread is that I don't believe that the use of them is automatically overuse. I find them appropriate in entertainment genre such as rap (and I am also a P!nk fan). I find it appropriate in Rolling Stone. ;)

 

Yet there are comedians whose use of it is so frequent that the "funny" gets lost. :confused:

 

I believe that the presence of vulgarity in literature adds to the depth, reality, believability and richness.

 

I find that my infrequent use of swearing makes it very effective when I do. ;)

[Karenciavo]

Why the question? Did I ever say I thought profanity was pertinent to every venue. I just said it wasn't new. I don't know what your issue is with me, but jeesh! :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm sorry, I didn't think it was an offensive question. Why would you assume I had an issue with you? :001_huh: sophia's question was when did it become an acceptable way of communicating. Your post indicated profanity has been around for a while in movies. I wasn't sure what your point was. I asked the question to see what your view was on communication. Sorry for the unintended offense.

[Karenciavo]

:iagree: And I must say that seeing people label people as 'having no class' is much more vulgar/brutish behavior than hearing someone tell another to eff off, IMO. Honestly, I always think that the people who apply the labels of having class or not are the ones who have it not. :tongue_smilie:

Like you just did. :lol:

[secular_mom]

Like you just did. :lol:

Yes, just like that except 'snootier' most times. That's why I added the :tongue_smilie:

;)

[MaMa2005]

When did profanity become an acceptable way of communicating?

 

I'm stunned by hearing that people want to hear profanity and not have it blocked out, and that it's ok for kids to sing it~albeit in private and only if it's part of a song.

 

The occasional epithet does escape my lips but I've always considered it a personal weakness to overcome. And singing swear words just seems...crass and juvenile.

 

Am I showing my age (46) and being a prude?

 

 

I think I'm in for it...:leaving:

 

At 49, I wear the prude label proudly :coolgleamA:.

[Lovedtodeath]

Here's your answer

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-do-we-swear

 

 

 

Like I gave the example of my MIL-it's people in pain. And if you don't think society is in pain, then, well, I heartily disagree with you and I'll leave it at that.

 

To say it's lack of imagination is a lack of imagination.

That makes so much sense. Thank you!

[Jenny in Florida]

I think it's funny. I guess I just have a crass sense of humor. Oddly I myself very rarely swear.

 

I don't think the issue is that anyone wants to actually HEAR profanity.

I think the issue is rather the principle: how does anybody else get to decide what is offensive to me?

 

I agree. :) Normally I don't appreciate hearing it and don't understand the need for it to pepper every song or conversation in movie or tv. I would not go so far as to say I am offended by it, I just don't appreciate having to hear it.

 

However, it is occasionally used in a really witty fashion that it is so perfect for the situation, and in those cases the curser is typically imaginative, classy and respectful, and has an excellent command of English vocabulary.

 

Here's the thing: As I said in the other thread, I rarely swear. And I'm one of those people who will turn around and glare at teens and young adults using profanity loudly in public. I do consider it rude, because I know other people are offended. And I didn't like my kids to have to hear it when they were younger.

 

However, push comes to shove, they are just words. I believe there are no "bad" words, just words that may be only situationally appropriate. And, in certain circumstances, yes, I think it's funny or effective or evocative.

 

So, for example, there's this Bowling for Soup song called "My Hometown" that I just love. I sing it loudly and happily when I'm in the car by myself. But the chorus is made up almost entirely of profanities strung together. I think it expresses a certain attitude and experience just perfectly, and it never fails to cheer me up when I listen and sing along.

 

However, I rarely let it play when my son is in the car. And I don't play it loudly enough for others to hear if I'm stopped in traffic with the car windows down. That would be rude.

 

As I also said over there, my son loves, LOVES both "American Idiot" and "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." (I defend the latter by pretending he's learning about American history.) Both soundtracks include a fair amount of profanity. But it not only makes sense in context. It evokes an emotional response that is appropriate to the message of the songs. Neither show would be the same without those expressions. So, my son listens and sings along. He frequently self-censors, leaving out or substituting single words. But we don't demand that he do so. We do demand that he treat other people with respect, recognize that using such language may make others uncomfortable and not speak that way when he is out in the world. In fact, he doesn't even speak that way at home. Neither do I. And neither does my husband.

 

My daughter--who was obsessed with the musical "Chicago" when she was five and six--doesn't seem to have been ruined by her exposure. Her current favorite musical is "Hair," which she has seen three times on stage (twice on Broadway, once in London). This is the one who doesn't even date. So, I don't think hearing--and maybe even singing along with!--some profanities has negatively affected her moral development.

 

To each his or her own, but I just don't get why it's such a big deal for people?

[Margaret in GA]

I swear, but not around people I don't know very well. And I don't let my kids swear. My biggest Facebook pet peeve is when teens swear. Honestly, why is that OK?? "I am really p*ssed" or "F*ck my APUSH teacher" These are real posts I've seen from kids I'm friends with (they are the kids of my friends or family) on FB. And these are not the only swearing posts I've seen. It's really tacky.

 

Old Lady

Margaret

[Truscifi]

Well, sometimes it works in the context of what's going on. For instance, if I'm watching a police or gangland drama, I can't suspend my disbelief if a guy calls someone a "dirty, rat bunny" or yells, "Goshdarnit!"

 

Dh and I also curse when angry and at times for effect or humor. Our kids do the same and understand the nuance. We all manage to go out amongst other humans and behave ourselves properly. ;)

 

I'm stunned at people who seem, imo, fanatically concerned with shielding themselves and their kids from every curseword, even mild ones, to the point that they will refuse to read a great book or watch a fantastic movie because they might encounter one. Really, they're just words. Their only power lies in our reaction to them.

 

And now I'm in for it.

 

:iagree:

 

However, push comes to shove, they are just words. I believe there are no "bad" words, just words that may be only situationally appropriate. And, in certain circumstances, yes, I think it's funny or effective or evocative.

 

As I also said over there, my son loves, LOVES both "American Idiot" and "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." (I defend the latter by pretending he's learning about American history.) Both soundtracks include a fair amount of profanity. But it not only makes sense in context. It evokes an emotional response that is appropriate to the message of the songs. Neither show would be the same without those expressions. So, my son listens and sings along. He frequently self-censors, leaving out or substituting single words. But we don't demand that he do so. We do demand that he treat other people with respect, recognize that using such language may make others uncomfortable and not speak that way when he is out in the world. In fact, he doesn't even speak that way at home. Neither do I. And neither does my husband.

 

My daughter--who was obsessed with the musical "Chicago" when she was five and six--doesn't seem to have been ruined by her exposure. Her current favorite musical is "Hair," which she has seen three times on stage (twice on Broadway, once in London). This is the one who doesn't even date. So, I don't think hearing--and maybe even singing along with!--some profanities has negatively affected her moral development.

 

To each his or her own, but I just don't get why it's such a big deal for people?

 

My ds also loves American Idiot. He also self censors, amd at least so far has not been tempted to use any of the language he hears in conversation. He does sometimes curse in frustration/anger/pain the same way I do. Literally, it sounds like I just said it - same intonation, under the breath, everything. So I guess I am a worse influence on him than Green Day. :tongue_smilie:

[NanceXToo]

I'll admit it. I swear. :blush:

 

I don't swear in public. I don't swear when we have company over, or when I'm in church, or at the playground with my children. I am obviously able to control myself in certain situations.

 

I swear at home from time to time (more or less depending on who I'm speaking with). I swear when I drive. My kids have heard the F-bomb grace my lips quite a few times.

 

I'd like to believe that I do it because it's the way I grew up. It's a hard habit to break! If I get on the phone with my mother or my brother -- fuggitaboutit.

 

It's not a lack of education, vocabulary, or creativity on my part. At least, I'd like to believe that it's not. :D It's just one of those habits that dies hard. Really, really hard.

 

Heh. Me, too.

 

I'm just amazed at how many people like to discuss profanity. :lol:

 

:lol:

[mo2]

 

I'm stunned at people who seem, imo, fanatically concerned with shielding themselves and their kids from every curseword, even mild ones, to the point that they will refuse to read a great book or watch a fantastic movie because they might encounter one. Really, they're just words. Their only power lies in our reaction to them.

 

And now I'm in for it.

 

 

:iagree: I'm probably in for it too.

[mo2]

Usually it reveals a lack of imagination, a lack of class, a lack of respect for the hearer, a lack of creativity, as well as weak vocabulary skills.

 

 

 

I disagree with this.

 

I find the frequent use of "dude" or "like" to be in poor taste as much as I do the *overuse* of swear, cuss or vulgar words.

 

Where I disagree with most people in this thread is that I don't believe that the use of them is automatically overuse. I find them appropriate in entertainment genre such as rap (and I am also a P!nk fan). I find it appropriate in Rolling Stone. ;)

 

Yet there are comedians whose use of it is so frequent that the "funny" gets lost. :confused:

 

I believe that the presence of vulgarity in literature adds to the depth, reality, believability and richness.

 

I find that my infrequent use of swearing makes it very effective when I do. ;)

 

And I agree with this.

 

Not that it matters. Just felt like throwing my opinion out there.

[simka2]

I've watched older movies and been blown away, by the amount of s*x and profanity (I can't remember specfically right now which ones...one was some Carribean adventure film).

 

I don't think it's anything new :glare:.

When this...

 

I guess it depends on what you consider old. The Godfather is almost 40 years old.

Is followed by this....

 

 

Is your husband a pastor? If so does he deliver sermons laced with profanities? If not, why not?

....and this... (in all of which you were quoteing my posts)

Why the question? Did I ever say I thought profanity was pertinent to every venue. I just said it wasn't new. I don't know what your issue is with me, but jeesh! :tongue_smilie:

 

It does begin to seem like you are taking a personal issue with my posts.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't think it was an offensive question. Why would you assume I had an issue with you? :001_huh: sophia's question was when did it become an acceptable way of communicating. Your post indicated profanity has been around for a while in movies. I wasn't sure what your point was. I asked the question to see what your view was on communication. Sorry for the unintended offense.

 

By the time I posted my first comment the thread had already evloved to discussing media...including Shakespeare. Hence my comment about movie history.

Edited February 15, 2011 by simka2

[justamouse]

Really, I would rather listen to string of f bombs than , "uhhh, like....". At least you can get behind the bombs with some emotions and arm movements. :tongue_smilie:

[Mommy to monkeys]

but I do. not. like. swearing.

 

It doesn't offend me. not even a little bit. It just sounds unintelligent.

[LisaKinVA]

I'm not against profanity, per se. I think there is a time and place for everything... and that my infrequent use of certain words adds to their meaning when used in context.

 

I do believe words can be overused, and lose their meaning. Gratuitous profanity doesn't usually add to the conversation. It's "filler." Just like gratuitous sex scenes don't add to the movie's story line... it's just there for a rating. It's fairly easy for me to spot the difference.

 

And, having worked with sailors (and being married to a former sailor), there are times when you really *need* to swear just to get the blokes to pay attention, and take you seriously :D

[funschooler5]

Well, sometimes it works in the context of what's going on. For instance, if I'm watching a police or gangland drama, I can't suspend my disbelief if a guy calls someone a "dirty, rat bunny" or yells, "Goshdarnit!"

 

Dh and I also curse when angry and at times for effect or humor. Our kids do the same and understand the nuance. We all manage to go out amongst other humans and behave ourselves properly. ;)

 

I'm stunned at people who seem, imo, fanatically concerned with shielding themselves and their kids from every curseword, even mild ones, to the point that they will refuse to read a great book or watch a fantastic movie because they might encounter one. Really, they're just words. Their only power lies in our reaction to them.

 

And now I'm in for it.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

And I don't agree with PP's comments about people who swear being less intelligent. (Of course, DH and I swear, and I grew up hearing my parents and grandparents swear.) Sure, when someone spouts a constant stream of profanity with no thoughts behind it at all, it sounds unintellegent. But, somebody that isn't offended by swearing can mix with all sorts of people, watch all kinds of movies and read a variety of books. My family knows who we can and can't swear around, though our kids technically aren't allowed to swear until they are old enough to drive, when it's practically a requirement. :tongue_smilie:

 

I can't imagine missing out on watching Fargo (one of my favorite movies) or the TV series An Idiot Abroad, or just about any of my favorite comedians. I'm not saying I can't enjoy a good movie or show that doesn't contain swearing...we're big fans of classic movies and shows here. I just can't imagine limiting my media choices because of a few swear words. There is a lot of quality programming out there that gets lumped with the crap (is that a swear word?) on TV because it contains a bit of profanity.

 

What gets me are the editing devices people own to be able to watch good movies without hearing the swears. Are people really not thinking about the word that's being bleeped out or voiced over? Bull sugar!

[Peela]

Whoa. I just read the first and last page. It's enough :)

 

Profanity wouldn't be profanity if people didn't react negatively to it. They are just sounds, combinations of syllables. What meaning you give them is up to you/me. Its subjective.

 

I cringe a little sometimes at excessive profanity or when it seems innapropriate- but I also recognise that is MEANT to be the effect. I personally enjoy a bit of witty irreverence at times too.

 

So the more energy you give it (positive or negative) the more you feed it. I am sure the people who speak it dont care one way or the other what you think.

[Lovedtodeath]

Really, I would rather listen to string of f bombs than , "uhhh, like....". At least you can get behind the bombs with some emotions and arm movements. :tongue_smilie:

:lol: