Starting letters at the bottom.

[Embassy]

My first grader habitually starts letters from the bottom. I have attempted to correct this for a couple years now, but he still does it. I think part of the reason is that he started to write letters on his own when he was 3 and has continued to use the bottom up method he used when first writing letters. Would cursive help break that pattern?

[regentrude]

probably yes. It would also help if he learned to write with a real fountain pen which makes it pretty much impossible to write from the bottom up.

[DragonFaerie]

I don't know about cursive but my son also wrote his letters from the bottom (and even sometimes from totally random starting places). Someone told me that this was just a sign of immaturity and not to worry too much but correct him whenever I noticed it. He is now (7 and halfway through 2nd grade) finally writing his letters mostly the right way.

[MerryAtHope]

HWT has a song for this--to the tune of "If you're happy and you know it," and it starts out, "How do we start our letters? At the top!"

 

I don't remember the rest, we sang that first part a lot...

[mammaofbean]

cursive!!! that is what helped here.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Grrrr, my 2nd and 4th graders both still do this for a few letters, like "i". I have tried to correct this for years. They tell me thats just how they do it. Makes me crazy, but I have noticed that as time goes on they have gotten better. I'm hoping that cursive will help the 2nd grader. As for 4th grader, he has LD's that we are already working with, physically hurts him to handwrite, so we use the computer alot. None of this helps you, just thought you might appriciate knowing you're not in the boat alone;).

[boscopup]

How have you attempted to correct it? I just corrected it in my son in January. Here's how I did it:

 

1) I used HWT first grade book, re-teaching how to form each letter, reinforcing the starting at the top with the song (it's in the back of the book, with music :) ).

 

2) EVERY little thing he wrote, I watched him and reminded him how to start his letters. Often, just saying "Where do we start our letters?" right before he put his pencil to paper would work. Once it got obvious that he was starting to remember on his own, I eased out of saying that.

 

3) Lots of copywork with me sitting there watching him, reminding him verbally how to form his letters. And by lots of copywork, I mean 1-2 sentences a day, and if it was 2 sentences in a day, it'd be broken up into two different writing sessions so he didn't get fatigued ("My hand hurts!")

 

4) Did I mention that I watched every single thing that he wrote? :D

 

This took about 3 weeks to get to where I felt like I didn't need to remind him very often. And in our 6th week, I was finally feeling like I could walk across the room for a minute while he did copywork.

 

We'll be doing connected italics next year, and I think our HWT print work this year will easily move into that.

[Embassy]

"How do we start our letters? At the top!"

 

I don't remember the rest, we sang that first part a lot...

 

Yes, we sing that too. He knows the song well, but still writes most of his letters from the bottom.

[Embassy]

How have you attempted to correct it?

 

Thanks for the ideas. We have gone through HWT and Italics. The copywork I have him do right now shows the direction of each letter and where to start each letter. I don't watch everything he writes though. That would be difficult because he writes quite a bit outside of copywork. Whenever I watch him write I remind him of where to start his letters. I can try watching him more.

 

If I start cursive is there a style that would work better? I like the fountain pen idea. He will probably like using one too.

[FO4UR]

Cursive will help, I think. Cursive First teaches kids to start at the baseline for every letter.

 

We chant, "Top to bottom, left to right. That's the way we read and write." I say it every time I see one of my dc try to write a letter wrong, which is annoying for them so they try not to do it... when I'm watching:tongue_smilie:.

[Tabrett]

Just curious how cursive will help dc stop starting at the bottom when you start at the bottom in cursive to make letters?

[Joyofsixreboot]

:bigear: My 9yo starts letters all over the place whether printing or using cursive. I'm hoping keyboarding will save him. If he would apply himself.....

[Homeschooling6]

HWT has a song for this--to the tune of "If you're happy and you know it," and it starts out, "How do we start our letters? At the top!"

 

I don't remember the rest, we sang that first part a lot...

 

We still sing this :lol:

[Embassy]

Just curious how cursive will help dc stop starting at the bottom when you start at the bottom in cursive to make letters?

 

LOL, good point. I'm not sure what the answer is though.

[Endorphins]

One of my boys does that and through watching LIKE A HAWK and having him erase and rewrite properly, he is getting much better at it.

[AmyinMD]

My 6 yo dd prefers to start her letters from the bottom too. She also likes to go clockwise which has been the bigger issue. Her handwriting looks very nice but the form is very wrong. When I sit and try to correct her she starts crying every time.

 

My 6 yo ds on the other hand uses great form and forms all the letters right. He is so so sloppy though.

[Farrar]

Just curious how cursive will help dc stop starting at the bottom when you start at the bottom in cursive to make letters?

Yeah. That was confusing me as well. I understand though how cursive will force a kid to form their letters in the accepted way because you have to in order to make them join properly. But for many letters, that means starting them at the bottom.

[kristinannie]

I have a similar problem with my son. He is almost 5 and has been writing letters on his own for a couple of years now. I have to watch him like a hawk to make sure he does it right. I show him the ones that he did correctly. They always look so much better than the ones he did incorrectly. It is slowly sinking in. I make him erase the ones that don't look good that he does incorrectly. I am looking forward to teaching him cursive though!

[UmMusa]

4th and 3rd graders here start some letters from the bottom. I'm irritated that it became in the first place (they used to go to a private school for preschool, kg, 1st grade). I've tried correcting it but it's hard. I might just have to do like a pp said and watch/correc them like crazy.

[Wee Pip]

Just curious how cursive will help dc stop starting at the bottom when you start at the bottom in cursive to make letters?

 

LOL, I've wondered the same thing:) My dh writes his letters starting at the bottom. After watching him write, I decided not to worry about it anymore.

[Amy Jo]

Just curious how cursive will help dc stop starting at the bottom when you start at the bottom in cursive to make letters?

 

I think it's because that is the proper way to form letters in cursive (so we just make what the child already does correct :D). At least in Cursive First all letters start at the bottom. I found that very helpful for my 2nd son.

[TinyTraveler]

I seem to be missing something here. Why does it matter if they start their letters from the bottom? If their handwriting is neat and readable does it really matter?

[Amy Jo]

I think proper letter formation and pencil grip are very important. I would like them to have smooth and easy handwriting. DS7 started with horrible & labored handwriting - and inefficient. It's hard to describe, it just seemed like to much work for an inferior result. Since writing is required in all of life, establishing good habits seems worthwhile.

[hsmom]

My son also writes from the bottom. I just chalk it up as that is how he writes, no one is the same on everything and as long as he is writing I am happy. He is also left handed, so not sure if that is part of why he does it.

[boscopup]

I think proper letter formation and pencil grip are very important. I would like them to have smooth and easy handwriting. DS7 started with horrible & labored handwriting - and inefficient. It's hard to describe, it just seemed like to much work for an inferior result. Since writing is required in all of life, establishing good habits seems worthwhile.

 

A homeschooling friend of mine has a son who started letters from the bottom and wrote exactly like my son. She didn't correct it at the time because they had other major issues to focus on at the time and couldn't correct both issues. Now he's in public high school, and he can't keep up with note taking because he can't write fast enough. Starting at the bottom for print just takes too long.

 

My own son has sped up quite a bit since I had him start at the top and form his letters correctly. His spacing is better too, since he was doing the righthand side first, then the lefthand side, and sometimes there wouldn't be enough room left.

 

Basically, the method of formation typically taught for print letters is usually more efficient than starting at the bottom for print. Now if your child has great looking handwriting and they can write quickly, then I see no reason to worry about it. My son's handwriting was "ok" looking, but he was having those spacing issues and it took him forever to write. Now he can write much quicker (still not hugely quick, but he's only first grade ;) ), and his handwriting has gotten much neater. I'm glad I fixed the issue for him before he needed to take notes in college. I can tell that he would have been like my friend's son.

[Endorphins]

4th and 3rd graders here start some letters from the bottom. I'm irritated that it became in the first place (they used to go to a private school for preschool, kg, 1st grade). I've tried correcting it but it's hard. I might just have to do like a pp said and watch/correc them like crazy.

 

Exactly my irritation with it, too. Law of primacy is hard to overcome and one would HOPE that a private school would be more likely/able to teach things the proper way (or catch errors in the beginning learning stages).

[ktgrok]

My first grader habitually starts letters from the bottom. I have attempted to correct this for a couple years now, but he still does it. I think part of the reason is that he started to write letters on his own when he was 3 and has continued to use the bottom up method he used when first writing letters. Would cursive help break that pattern?

 

My 11 year old still does it;. I spent months again this year trying to fix it. I have given up. He is learning to type, his handwriting is legible although not great, and I just don't care anymore. I'm over it.

[Embassy]

For those who have corrected it by watching their child like a hawk, do you have your child come to you everytime he writes? My son writes a lot and I'm not sure how it would work. For instance, today he was downstairs writing up clues to a game he was making and I had no idea he was writing.

[Endorphins]

We do our all of our work at the dining table (me at the head with one child on each side) and I'm able to keep a pretty good eye on him during their writing exercises. I wouldn't have been able to make any progress if he was writing out of my vision. I wont have to do this forever (thankfully!!!), but for now, being that it's important to me, I will continue supervising.

 

And FWIW, some days are better than others. Yesterday, I didn't have to correct him once. Today...ugh.

[boscopup]

Exactly my irritation with it, too. Law of primacy is hard to overcome and one would HOPE that a private school would be more likely/able to teach things the proper way (or catch errors in the beginning learning stages).

 

A private school still has one teacher and a bunch of kids, so unless the school has a bunch of parent helpers or something in there all the time, the teacher can't watch how each and every child is writing. My son was *taught* the right way in private school. He just didn't follow the directions when he wrote on his own. He drew the same picture, rather than forming the letter like he was told to. He would also do the sky writing and such correctly, but pencil on paper would get done incorrectly, and the teacher had 17 students, so couldn't possibly watch each of them as they formed every letter.

 

I don't at all fault my son's school for this issue. It's the nature of school. I'm glad that my other two kids will be at home when they learn to form their letters, and I can teach them properly from the beginning AND can watch each letter they write in the beginning. :)

 

For those who have corrected it by watching their child like a hawk, do you have your child come to you everytime he writes? My son writes a lot and I'm not sure how it would work. For instance, today he was downstairs writing up clues to a game he was making and I had no idea he was writing.

 

My son doesn't write outside of school much at all yet, so that's not been an issue for us. But I can't watch him when he's in Bible class, and I just have to assume that the work we're doing everyday on our copywork and other work will just carry over to those times when I'm not watching. Btw, his worksheets in Bible class the last couple classes have been *beautiful*! I can't believe how much good copywork has done. Amazing.

 

I think in your case, I wouldn't worry about your son going off and writing for a game. But during school, watch watch watch and correct correct correct. Hopefully the school writing is more than the outside-of-school writing, and you'll still get a benefit.

[Endorphins]

A private school still has one teacher and a bunch of kids, so unless the school has a bunch of parent helpers or something in there all the time, the teacher can't watch how each and every child is writing. My son was *taught* the right way in private school. He just didn't follow the directions when he wrote on his own. He drew the same picture, rather than forming the letter like he was told to. He would also do the sky writing and such correctly, but pencil on paper would get done incorrectly, and the teacher had 17 students, so couldn't possibly watch each of them as they formed every letter.

 

I don't at all fault my son's school for this issue. It's the nature of school. I'm glad that my other two kids will be at home when they learn to form their letters, and I can teach them properly from the beginning AND can watch each letter they write in the beginning. :)

 

While I do fault my son's teacher and aide (class of eleven, IIRC), I am in no way relieving my son of his own responsibility in that. I should have said as such. And I am thankful that I was able to catch it and do something about it so early on. :)

[Embassy]

Hopefully the school writing is more than the outside-of-school writing, and you'll still get a benefit.

 

Out of school writing is abundant - sometimes more and sometimes equal to what he does in school. He has always loved to write. Maybe we should do more writing in school.

[rieshy]

My oldest did this. His school told me to not worry about it, maybe that's true of some kids.... When I pulled him out of school in 3 rd grade we did Italic handwriting which helped. But not much. He could do perfect cursive copywork but when he wrote on his own he continued to form all his letters incorrectly.

 

In fact he still does- and it significantly slows him down. He has trouble taking notes in classes that don't allow tape recordings or computers.

 

Sooo, when my next son (non of my daughters did this) started doing the same thing, except for math, I did not have him do written work till last year- and we started with cursive. I never let him write unless I was next to him and could remind him of the correct directions. As of Christmas he can write well on his own in both cursive and print.

 

Btw- we used both fountain pens and mechanical pencils and best of all- ink bottles with a feather quill.

 

If I could do it over again with my oldest I would have never have allowed the "creative" writing and spelling that his school encouraged.

[RootAnn]

IMO, teaching cursive won't fix the starting-from-the-bottom-when-printing issue. It might even reinforce it because, as other posters have pointed out, you start most cursive letters from the baseline.

 

Best to remediate the printing now. .... I'm a fan of "cursive first" but feel in this case it is best to fix the bottom-up printing before starting a whole new handwriting program.

 

No advice on how to do it as I haven't had to. My five year old sometimes makes her letters from the bottom up but we haven't started any formal handwriting, so any writing (other than her name & numbers) she does on her own is free-writing and I'm not hovering & correcting her. I'll show her how to make them correctly when we start handwriting (probably this summer with sidewalk chalk).

[laundrycrisis]

In order to remediate our 7 yo's handwriting, this is what I did: I got the "multisensory" workbook from First Strokes, took it apart, and got sheet protectors for it.

 

I had him stop doing ANY written work that involved letters for the entire time we were working through his handwriting problems, except working on writing individual letters, with the First Strokes materials, completely supervised. Instead I had him do work on the computer, or verbally. But the only handwriting he was doing was intense work on individual letters, with that program. I did not want him to have any opportunity to practice writing the "wrong" way. I did continue with written math, because numbers were not a problem, just letters.

 

His biggest problem was the "circle stroke letters". I had him practice those daily for a solid month on the sheet protectors, first with paintbrush pens, then with dry erase markers, before going back to a pencil on paper.

 

I have only recently re-introduced opportunities for him to write. He is doing much better. The time away from chances to practice doing it the wrong way, with intense focus on proper formation of individual letters, has really helped.

[mrsmgquick]

With cursive the letters flow together. One starting point and one ending point. Cursive has definitely helped us as we don’t have to start each letter separately. My son would have to stop and think where a letter started one letter at a time. Letters just ran together. We had much difficulty with spacing and letter sizing. It was really frustrating for him too to later not be able to read his own sentence. As it all ran together. I find with cursive there is less hand fatigue as well. Cursive allows for a steadier grip and pressure of pencil. 

[Tree Frog]

10 yo old zombie