s/o of S*x mechanics thread

[k2bdeutmeyer]

So....on that thread several people mentioned about how they answered questions as they were brought up (when DC saw a condom, pad/tampon, etc.). That made me wonder about a situation we've had at our house recently.

 

To make a long story short, DD's 15yo half brother (at her dad's house) showed her p*rn. Fantastic. I was livid that they were allowed unsupervised access to the computer, but by that point, it was already done. This was almost a year ago - she was 9. So, I asked her if she had questions....and she did. I answered to the best of my ability. She wanted to know why somebody would have a job like that (the actors). I explained that while I didn't support that lifestyle, some people don't mind. She asked about why those types of movies existed at all. Again, I explained that while I wouldn't be okay with them in MY house, some people are and that just like all other things in life, people have many different views, and that at some point she will have to make a decision for herself as to whether that is something she is okay with or not.

 

So....fast forward to the last few months. We have had several instances where I've felt like I didn't know what to do. For instance, DD found a pair of thong type underwear (I do not wear "butt floss" usually....or really ever) in the laundry that DH bought for me awhile back. She left a note on the dryer saying something to the effect of "you said you weren't dirty" (where she came up with "dirty" I don't know) "traitor". The underwear were sitting along side it.

 

So, how do you handle those moments? How do you handle the times when maybe they see something more than just the basic mechanics stuff (toys, lingerie, whatever)???

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Ohhh....another example.

 

DH and I watched "Live Nude Comedy" on Netflix one night after the kids went to bed. Totally NOT the p*rn it sounds like it is. It actually is just comedians with burlesque dancing (real quick segments) between each comedian. DD came out of bed for something and saw a quick glimpse of one of the dancers before DH changed the channel. She then (on her own time) went back to see what we were watching that night and got very upset and almost angry about it. How could I say I didn't support having p*rn in my house, and then turn around and watch it???? I explained that it wasn't what she thought it was....and told her what it really was.

[NanceXToo]

It sounds like you handled the porn conversation just fine!

 

In this case, maybe I'd go to her with the underwear and the note and give her a confused look and say something like:

 

"I'm a bit confused by your note. This is just a pair of underwear. People like to wear different styles of underwear sometimes. What somebody wears privately under their clothes has nothing to do with being "dirty," it has to do with personal preference or comfort or just playing around with style, and it's really no-one else's business, including yours, what sort of underwear I or anyone else wears. But if you have any specific questions you would like me to answer for you, please let me know."

 

Or some such.

 

ETA: I just read your follow up post, too, and it sounds like you handled that fine, as well.... but it also seems that your daughter is having a hard time coming to terms still with what she saw, if she's still bringing up things like that a year later, so maybe something else has come up that you don't know about, maybe she has mixed feelings about what she saw, maybe she has unresolved questions...maybe you should pick a time when everything's fine and have a little casual girl talk with her and see if there's anything on her mind that is coming out in the form of these digs at you.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I know for a fact it was graphic XXX videos online. Oy.

[IsabelC]

While it's very unfortunate that your dd had to see pron at that age, I think you handled an awkward situation beautifully. Re the underwear, maybe a little conversation about how pron is objectifying people as sǝxual playthings, not about a particular style of underwear. As a longer term objective, you might wish to concentrate on getting her to understand that sǝx is not bad or dirty in itself, in fact it's healthy and good in the appropriate context of consenting adults who are on an equal footing as opposed to being exploited (or only within marriage, if that is your belief). All kids will sooner or later start to realize that there are some people around with very wrong/harmful ideas about sǝx and sǝxuality. But if they have a good moral/ethical foundation to build on, they won't have much trouble discerning what is inappropriate.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Hotdrink

[Starr]

I think it is oy and I'm really sorry. It sounds like she needs affirmation that what she saw was bad. You are doing a great job being direct with her. It may take a few more years before she wants to hear anything about what even normal is.

[Mom-ninja.]

I'm so sorry your dd was exposed to that. She's so young as well. I'm sure she's very confused. I'm sure she has questions. It's time for another talk. She needs to understand the difference between what she saw and what happens between consenting adults who trust each other.

 

Oh, and perhaps you can explain panty lines to her.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Kleine Hexe

[NanceXToo]

While it's very unfortunate that your dd had to see pron at that age, but I think you handled an awkward situation beautifully. Re the underwear, maybe a little conversation about how pron is objectifying people as sexual playthings, not about a particular style of underwear. As a longer term objective, you might wish to concentrate on getting her to understand that sex is not bad or dirty in itself, in fact it's healthy and good in the appropriate context of consenting adults who are on an equal footing as opposed to being exploited (or only within marriage, if that is your belief). All kids will sooner or later start to realize that there are some people around with very wrong/harmful ideas about sex and sexuality. But if they have a good moral/ethical foundation to build on, they won't have much trouble discerning what is inappropriate.

 

I'm so sorry your dd was exposed to that. She's so young as well. I'm sure she's very confused. I'm sure she has questions. It's time for another talk. She needs to understand the difference between what she saw and what happens between consenting adults who trust each other.

 

:iagree: These are very good points, too!

[Catwoman]

This is what I'm thinking too.

 

If her first "exposure" to sex was pornographic, her confusion is completely understandable. Do you know, specifically, what she saw? I mean, a Playboy-type centerfold is one thing, but an XXX video can be terribly disturbing and--yes--dirty. You may need to get details. :grouphug:

 

Oh, and maybe I'm reaching here . . . but is it possible that she's being molested or groomed for molestation by the half-brother and this is making her feel dirty? If he's hormonal, accessing pornography, showing it to her . . . just a thought.

 

:iagree:

 

I was wondering the same thing about the half-brother. Your dd seems awfully traumatized, and I can't help but worry that maybe there's more to the story than she has told you. (I also hope I'm wrong!)

 

Cat

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I've often wondered, but DD is pretty good about communicating that kind of thing with me (usually via notes, but...). The situation that happened with the computer started off as an accident. She accidentally clicked on an ad and brought an x rated site up. When she panicked, half-brother said "oh, that's nothing....look at this" and showed her the rest. I think she would tell me if she was concerned about something more with her brother. Obviously, I can't say for certain, but as often as I've wondered, I'm pretty confident there is nothing more there.

[Catwoman]

She accidentally clicked on an ad and brought an x rated site up. When she panicked, half-brother said "oh, that's nothing....look at this" and showed her the rest.

 

Ok -- now I understand! I wouldn't be concerned about his motivations in that case. I would definitely question his common sense, but I don't think he has any intentions toward your dd. (That's a relief!)

 

Cat

[Night Elf]

I agree with the others. Keep talking to her. She sounds very confused. I'd hate for her to think of all sex, or even undergarments, as dirty. That could need counseling if she grows up getting deeper into those types of thoughts. What an awful way to be exposed to this topic for the first time. If she saw videos there was probably sound. Those movies can sound like people are in pain.

[Joanne]

I've often wondered, but DD is pretty good about communicating that kind of thing with me (usually via notes, but...). The situation that happened with the computer started off as an accident. She accidentally clicked on an ad and brought an x rated site up. When she panicked, half-brother said "oh, that's nothing....look at this" and showed her the rest. I think she would tell me if she was concerned about something more with her brother. Obviously, I can't say for certain, but as often as I've wondered, I'm pretty confident there is nothing more there.

 

:confused: I'm not convinced at all. :001_huh: I'd be very concerned about a mid teen who continued to show a very young child PORN.

 

I'm so not convinced.

 

Personally, I'd recommend professional evaluation. At minimum, she needs to know that between marrieds that sex is fun, playful and "dirty" is a consentual option.

 

But, even if nothing "else" happened, what you DID disclose is highly inappropriate and frightening.

[Pretty in Pink]

I'd let her know that I understand why she is confused. If the female she saw on the computer was wearing a thong then that's why she thinks it's "dirty". She's probably also more aware of sensual images and such now than she was before.

 

Anyway, at this point it's not like the topic is really off limits. I would explain to my dd that sex between two married adults (or two consenting adults, or whatever definition you find appropriate) is healthy and normal. If you are Christians then you can come at it from the "God designed sex as a way for spouses to express their love for one another" angle. Whatever. The point is that she needs to know that not all sex is inappropriate.

 

You might also explain that not all instances of "showing skin" are meant to titillate. Maybe you could discuss and view some pieces of art that depict nudity tastefully. You could discuss how some dancers and athletes wear more revealing clothing because it reveals the lines of their bodies, showcases their form, etc. if you are comfortable with that.

 

Keep the lines of communication open with her. Let her know that she can come to you *anytime* with any question and you will answer her honestly.

 

Also, explain to her what pantylines are and why one might wish to avoid them! :D

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I did talk with her tonight....she opened a door in conversation tonight that was perfect!! I explained exactly what you all are saying and she cried, because she "felt silly" after realizing that it didn't have to be taken the way she did. I told her that she didn't need to feel dumb or silly - told her that she's 10 and had no reason to just know all that. I think she was relieved.

 

She is still really bothered by what she saw with her half-brother. Interestingly enough, what bothers her the most is that it is so easily accessible where anybody can find it. She finds that incredibly disturbing.

[Catwoman]

Have you or your dh spoken with the half-brother about this?

 

Cat

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Nope. I left that up to his/DD's dad.

[Joanne]

Nope. I left that up to his/DD's dad.

 

I am shocked. I find the episode alarming and sexually abusive. She was *deliberately shown more porn by a male teen 6 years her senior? They are in no way peers, and unless he's special needs, should know better. Your passive response astounds me.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I am shocked. I find the episode alarming and sexually abusive. She was *deliberately shown more porn by a male teen 6 years her senior? They are in no way peers, and unless he's special needs, should know better. Your passive response astounds me.

 

:iagree: An appropriate response from half-brother would have been, "OMG! that is so horrible that that came up on the pop-up! Let's find a more appropriate website!" NOT..."Here's some more porn." If that were my kid he would NEVER be allowed access to her ever again!

 

(Isn't showing porn to a kid considered sexual abuse?)

[Word Nerd]

I am shocked. I find the episode alarming and sexually abusive. She was *deliberately shown more porn by a male teen 6 years her senior? They are in no way peers, and unless he's special needs, should know better. Your passive response astounds me.

 

How is it passive to discuss it with his father and have him handle it? The OP isn't his mother or stepmother, and she didn't say she didn't do anything at all to address it. What authority does she or her DH have over the teen?

[texasmama]

I have a 15 year old and a 10 year old. It would horrify me if the 15 year old showed the 10 year old porn. That goes beyond "bad judgment". It is very concerning. I would not want her to be alone with him ever.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

How is it passive to discuss it with his father and have him handle it? The OP isn't his mother or stepmother, and she didn't say she didn't do anything at all to address it. What authority does she or her DH have over the teen?

 

I guess that (the above). I did discuss it with her dad and expressed my concerns, but didn't feel it was my place to handle him. I believe he had a "talking to" and had his internet priveleges revoked. I also asked that there not be any unsupervised internet at their house and that they place child safety settings on their computers. I believe her dad complied with my requests.

 

I have to say though....and I've said this before (it hasn't been a popular comment of mine) that her dad's house is not the best environment. Their lifestyle is drastically different than what we teach at our house. I'm doing my best to teach DD how to recognize the things that are NOT okay, and to not partake while still loving her dad, brother, and stepmom.

[katilac]

I would definitely consider counseling - at a minimum, for myself, to help narrow down the best way to handle it, what words to use, and whether counseling might be needed for her. She's clearly upset and confused by what happened, nearly a year later (as well she might be).

 

Add me to the list of people who think that was a totally disturbing and bizarre thing for a teen boy to do. Teen boys may watch porn, they may brag about it to their friends and try to one-up each other, but they don't show it to prepubescent girls. The ick factor of watching porn with your baby sister is too high to be measured, kwim? I don't think it was a normal thing to do. I would not want her to alone in a room with him for the length of time it took for him to do that. I don't think 'a talking to' is an appropriate response. I'd make it my business to let him know that, as far as my dd is concerned, he answers to ME, and I will land him in a world of pain if he takes one step out of line.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

FWIW they do not have a normal brother/sister relationship. For the first 4yr of DDs life she only saw him once every few months, if that. For the last 5-6yr they have seen each other once every 4-6wks or so. He is somewhat of a disturbed child anyway. That sounds awful, but he has been known to smoke, shoplift, try to light his mom's house on fire, threaten to kill his family, etc....

[Catwoman]

FWIW they do not have a normal brother/sister relationship. For the first 4yr of DDs life she only saw him once every few months, if that. For the last 5-6yr they have seen each other once every 4-6wks or so. He is somewhat of a disturbed child anyway. That sounds awful, but he has been known to smoke, shoplift, try to light his mom's house on fire, threaten to kill his family, etc....

 

Ok, now I'm worried again. I was thinking that he was a regular kid who loved his half-sister, and who did something incredibly stupid and senseless because he was trying to show off and seem cool, but that he probably didn't realize that he was traumatizing her. Now I'm thinking that perhaps he was deliberately trying to frighten or upset her -- or worse.

 

Maybe you're not his mom, but your dd is your little girl and is your responsibility, and she is still awfully upset by something that supposedly only happened one time a long time ago. I am back to wondering if, perhaps, there is more to this story and the boy may have threatened to hurt you or your dh if your dd tells you anything else that may be happening. Your dd is acting out in unusual ways (the extreme reaction over the thong incident, etc.) and I'm concerned that this boy could be abusing her, or at the very least, showing her more disturbing images or telling her stories she shouldn't be hearing. Also, I'm wondering why she tends to communicate these things to you in notes, rather than in conversation. I find that to be unusual, but if she has always done that, it wouldn't be a red flag for me. (If she feels she's not allowed to "tell" you something, maybe writing it down doesn't count?)

 

Personally, I probably would have gone to the police when the incident first happened, because I would have been worried that the situation could have escalated, and would have wanted the police to be the ones to scare the living daylights out of that boy. I also believe he committed a crime by showing that stuff to your dd.

 

At this point, a lot of time has passed, so I don't think there's much point in re-hashing it with the 15yo, but I do think it's very important to make sure nothing else is happening between him and your dd right now.

 

Also, what did the stepmom say about all of this? I'm getting the feeling that neither she nor your dd's father was nearly as horrified about this as they should have been.

 

Sorry if we're scaring you; we're just worried about your dd.

 

Cat

Edited December 9, 2010 by Catwoman

[Word Nerd]

Count me on the worried side! It doesn't sound like his parents are capable of handling him period, and outside help is needed. I wouldn't personally allow my dd anywhere near him and would get her counseling. Her behavior may be due to something much more recent.

[texasmama]

OP, you are describing a kid with Conduct Disorder, not someone who is appropriate to ever be unsupervised with a young child. I agree that your dd could benefit from counseling since she continues to have issues with what happened a year later. It is quite possible for a child to be sexually abused and to never tell, due to shame, fear, etc.

[LaissezFaire]

OP, you are describing a kid with Conduct Disorder, not someone who is appropriate to ever be unsupervised with a young child. I agree that your dd could benefit from counseling since she continues to have issues with what happened a year later. It is quite possible for a child to be sexually abused and to never tell, due to shame, fear, etc.

 

:iagree: Exactly. As much as it pains me to say it, I would BET that other inappropriate things have happened and these little things (the notes and such) that she is doing are little clues she is giving you because she is too afraid to speak up. If something bad has been happening or has happened to her that would certainly cause her to look at sex (or thong underwear) in a 'dirty' light.

[Corraleno]

OP, you are describing a kid with Conduct Disorder, not someone who is appropriate to ever be unsupervised with a young child. I agree that your dd could benefit from counseling since she continues to have issues with what happened a year later. It is quite possible for a child to be sexually abused and to never tell, due to shame, fear, etc.

 

Exactly. As much as it pains me to say it, I would BET that other inappropriate things have happened and these little things (the notes and such) that she is doing are little clues she is giving you because she is too afraid to speak up. If something bad has been happening or has happened to her that would certainly cause her to look at sex (or thong underwear) in a 'dirty' light.

:iagree:

As someone who was molested by a relative for 4 years before I said anything, I would strongly urge you to get your daughter into counseling right away and end the visits to her father's house, effective immediately. He can pick her up and take her to the zoo or something, she should NOT be in that house with her step-brother. Sometimes when people are in the middle of a situation, especially if it has developed gradually, they can't see it as clearly as outsiders can. The situation you are describing is raising red flags and ringing alarm bells for many people here.

 

Jackie

[Catherine]

I would not tell a child that porn actors do what they do for any other reason than to get $$. It's a job, plain and simple, one that is often done by people who have no education and have not found other ways to support themselves. I would not want a kid to somehow get the idea that they "do it for fun".

[Pippen]

:iagree:

As someone who was molested by a relative for 4 years before I said anything, I would strongly urge you to get your daughter into counseling right away and end the visits to her father's house, effective immediately. He can pick her up and take her to the zoo or something, she should NOT be in that house with her step-brother. Sometimes when people are in the middle of a situation, especially if it has developed gradually, they can't see it as clearly as outsiders can. The situation you are describing is raising red flags and ringing alarm bells for many people here.

 

Jackie

 

I agree dd shouldn't ever be in the house with the stepbrother.

 

If you do decide to go the counseling route, be aware that counselors in all 50 states are mandated reporters. Is the family getting that boy any help?

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I've been pondering how to respond all morning.

 

I can totally see where there would be concern based on what I've said here. And truthfully......if I tried to explain it all it would sound like I was being defensive, and that's not the case at all. The half-brother is rebellious. He comes from a family/environment where that is the "norm". They are your stereotypical low income family - drugs, babies (lots of them), state assistance for everything, crime, etc. DD's dad is not involved with the illegal stuff anymore.....but half-brother's mom, I believe, still is. I think his odd/defiant behavior is more a result of his environment than any concerning mental health issues.

 

Of course, I always have my radar on high alert for anything.....but at this point in time I do not feel my daughter is in any imminent danger. Poor examples for responsibility, how we act, morals, etc...yes, but danger, no.

 

I really appreciate everyone's concern and don't want anyone to think I've taken any of this lightly.

[texasmama]

I understand what you are saying, I believe. No one can truly know your situation unless we are in it. I'm sure these are things you think about often because it sounds like a very poor situation all around.

 

Some things to think about: No matter what the cause of Conduct Disorder, the results are the same - a person who is unsafe for young children. Although this young man's situation is unfortunate, and he didn't ask to be reared in that environment, that has no real bearing on your daughter's safety or need for protection. Many people protect a child only after something concrete and "provable" has happened. Consider the negative consequences for your child, the teen boy, your family and your dd's father's family if he molests her. She is already exhibiting signs that something is affecting her emotionally. It would be a kindness on your part to seek at least an evaluation from a therapist.

 

All the best to you, and I appreciate you being open to the feedback from all of us. (Check my siggie if you haven't already. I have specialized in children and adolescents since 1991.:))

[Laurie4b]

I am shocked. I find the episode alarming and sexually abusive. She was *deliberately shown more porn by a male teen 6 years her senior? They are in no way peers, and unless he's special needs, should know better. Your passive response astounds me.

 

:confused: OP is not the parent of the half-brother. I don't think it's passive to have the parent of the teen deal with the teen; I find that very appropriate. If OP didn't think her dd's father dealt with it appropriately, she could have taken action of a different sort, but she didn't say what he did or didn't do. It's not the topic she posted about; we have zero info on how he handled it.

[Laurie4b]

I think my nephew was late elementary or middle school when he was really bothered by the whole idea of s-x. When my sister and b-i-l would go in their room and shut the door, he would be knocking on it in "case" they were "doing it". He really associated s-x with something bad. That is with no inappropriate exposure that is known; in fact, I think he got the idea that s-x is bad from School s-x ed--just a kind of "rule-abiding" kid who somehow got the impression that s-x was bad. So that kind of thing can just happen with some kids.

 

I do agree with pp's that talking to her more about it is a good idea. I wouldn't have been as neutral as you were about the p-rn. If it's something that you don't watch, I don't see anything wrong with agreeing with her that it was bad, gross, whatever she feels. I think that can actually help her distance herself from it. Perhaps an analogy of some kind might help. If there is a "real" thing in life that means something to her (perhaps a piece of jewelry she has, or a food she likes) and compare it to a fake version, she might be able to get the idea that p-rn is fake and therefore gross but that the real thing is a good thing.

[PiCO]

:confused: I'm not convinced at all. :001_huh: I'd be very concerned about a mid teen who continued to show a very young child PORN.

 

But, even if nothing "else" happened, what you DID disclose is highly inappropriate and frightening.

 

I agree with Joanne here. Why would a 15 yo boy show something that was "so much worse" than the ad link to a 9-yo?

 

My dd would not be going to that house any more.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I think my nephew was late elementary or middle school when he was really bothered by the whole idea of s-x. When my sister and b-i-l would go in their room and shut the door, he would be knocking on it in "case" they were "doing it". He really associated s-x with something bad. That is with no inappropriate exposure that is known; in fact, I think he got the idea that s-x is bad from School s-x ed--just a kind of "rule-abiding" kid who somehow got the impression that s-x was bad. So that kind of thing can just happen with some kids.

 

I do agree with pp's that talking to her more about it is a good idea. I wouldn't have been as neutral as you were about the p-rn. If it's something that you don't watch, I don't see anything wrong with agreeing with her that it was bad, gross, whatever she feels. I think that can actually help her distance herself from it. Perhaps an analogy of some kind might help. If there is a "real" thing in life that means something to her (perhaps a piece of jewelry she has, or a food she likes) and compare it to a fake version, she might be able to get the idea that p-rn is fake and therefore gross but that the real thing is a good thing.

 

I actually did JUST that several times. I've told her that while it is something that *I* don't support/like/believe is okay, some people do. Because she wanted to know why if it was bad, it was so easily accessible (which is the part that bothers her more than anything else). I also told her that ultimately SHE will have to decide where she stands on it, but that that need not be any time soon!

[katilac]

I agree with Joanne here. Why would a 15 yo boy show something that was "so much worse" than the ad link to a 9-yo?

 

My dd would not be going to that house any more.

 

I doubt she has a choice about her dd going to that house. That probably can't be changed. (which is why I recommend personally putting the fear of God into the kid)