The today show finance idiots

[justamouse]

We are in the same situation here for taxes and I don't consider us to be subsidizing other states. Of course, we (as a state) pay more in federal taxes but our state sucks up FAR more in federal resources than a state like Nebraska. Also, our state taxes are ridiculous because our politicians are out of control and have no idea how to create a budget.

 

You may be subsidizing them, you have to research it. It's in our papers all the time. It's a hornet's nest here. It's also why we fight for earmarks--because we need some of that $$ back to do stuff in our own state.

[Mrs Mungo]

Funny - I would define $100,000. as middle-middle class. We can't swing a house or a second car or private schools on that....

 

By definition $100K is upper middle class. I grant you that some areas are more expensive than others. We live in Hawaii, one of the most expensive areas of the country.

[RahRah]

It's like the "who would buy a car for Christmas" thread. In our area, it happens a lot. We pay for ours, but a lot of people lease or buy with almost no money down, and then go crazy trying to make all of the payments on all of the stuff they bought so they could impress other people.

 

I'll raise my hand :001_smile:

 

DH just picked out and got his new car, which is his Christmas present....he was driving an 11-year old volvo and it needed to be replaced - no way it was going to make it through another winter.

 

BUT, before we pulled the trigger, we paid off my minivan because we always want one car paid in full......and this time, with his car (certified used) we opted to finance a portion of it because the financing was super low (0.9%) and came with all scheduled maintenance through 100,000 miles (that alone is worth way more than the interest we'll pay in the six months minimum we have to keep the loan and significantly less than the taxes we'd have to pay if he'd cut himself a check from work to pay it in full).....we're hoping to pay it off within a year.

[Wheres Toto]

I agree about how things are different here on the East Coast. We live in a 750sq foot bungalow - 2 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, lousy kitchen on almost an acre of land in a town with one of those "outstanding school districts". We could probably sell, even in this market, for $400,000. But, unless we are moving to a much lower COL area, that wouldn't do us any good. Judging by some previous threads it is still slightly easier to find a semi-decent paying job here than other places - if for no other reason than there are a lot more people/stores/hospitals/businesses within a given radius. We fall into the mid-middle class for this area but DH would probably not make nearly as much in other areas (if the type of work he does even existed).

 

We were both born and raised in NJ so I don't really have anything to compare to except what I see here and other boards. The idea of having to drive more than 5 minutes to find a grocery store/discount store/high-end retailer seems foreign to me.

[Mejane]

 

DH just picked out and got his new car, which is his Christmas present....he was driving an 11-year old volvo and it needed to be replaced - no way it was going to make it through another winter.

 

 

 

We do this, too. A couple of years ago, we gave each other a new roof for our anniversary. ;):D

[CAMom]

So, where do you buy these really nice houses for less than $400K? Inquiring minds would like to know.;)

 

My house is 1500 sq ft on a 10K sq ft. lot in a friendly neighborhood and looking at realtor.com today, anything comparable goes for at least 500K. Really, it's just a starter house.

[Murphy101]

But people around these areas need to dress like that where they work

 

Oh come on. Is the entire state of NY stuck up or what? I do understand having to dress very professional and look "put together". My dh has to do that to. In fact, most professionals do. But only in media or fashion does your job require you spend $100+ on one article of clothing. Are there no goodwills and targets there?

 

Yup, this is why we grind our own and bring it. And if you do buy a capp, it IS cheaper to just buy the machine. Though I have a Moku express and a frother. I make it the old timer Italian way. :D

 

 

But the point stands that if we are going to seriously discuss tighter finances, the only reasonable choice to no more capp or very occasionally. Some need to suck it up and accept they have to drink regular coffee from a regular coffee maker.

 

Exactly. When you were looking at 3/4 of a mil, to a mil BEFORE the bubble, 400k is a steal.

 

We need to stop talking about what the price was pre bubble. The bubble was a scam of over rated prices. Not what we should base what a reasonable price is for today.

 

Well, you'd be paying much, much more if it weren't for us moneymakers.

 

not buying that either

 

Certainly not the implication that those in the breadbasket of America are not moneymakers. Not sure where that came from.:glare:

 

I don't doubt that cost of living is crazy nuts on the coasts.

No one here is arguing otherwise.

But that's not a valid argument for claiming a country house in other states is a deal at 400k.

 

I suppose the comment that it is a deal for what it is might be true, but I still think it shows a huge disconnect with a heck of a lot of Americans viewing a national program.

 

If it's any consolation, I see the same thing on our local station on Sundays advertising homes. There are regularly 2 bedroom homes smaller than mine in "hip" locations for 200k. There is nothing about those homes worth that. Then there's the luxury homes for 350k. Many are smaller than mine, but look fancy or are in old money districts.

[Carrie12345]

So, where do you buy these really nice houses for less than $400K? Inquiring minds would like to know.;)

 

My house is 1500 sq ft on a 10K sq ft. lot in a friendly neighborhood and looking at realtor.com today, anything comparable goes for at least 500K. Really, it's just a starter house.

 

You can get a nice 5bd colonial (if that's what you're into) on an acre or more in the $220-250k range around here. But you'd probably have to work in NJ/NY/Philly in order to pay for it! Good paying jobs are hard to come by in this area.

Our 1200sf 3bd house was less than that 5 years ago, and dh pulls a pretty long commute.

[Mrs Mungo]

If it's any consolation, I see the same thing on our local station on Sundays advertising homes. There are regularly 2 bedroom homes smaller than mine in "hip" locations for 200k. There is nothing about those homes worth that. Then there's the luxury homes for 350k. Many are smaller than mine, but look fancy or are in old money districts.

 

"Hip" in many cities=the best schools. I have 2 friends who live in Seattle. One lives north of Seattle, she homeschools. She has a large house that costs around $200k. I have another friend who wanted to be in a really, really good school district. They paid $400k for a 1,000 sf sixties ranch with an updated kitchen.

 

Here? We rent a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house on a TINY lot (eta: the largest lots in the neighborhood are 6,500 sf). The house was previously on the market for $850k, but Hawaii is crazy-expensive.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Murphy101]

I have a 2800 sqft, four bedroom, plus game room and formal dining, 2.5 bath, 2 car garage in a nice neighborhood. Little over three years ago I paid 163k. I think. We put a lot down and on points, so our loan was much less.

 

For $500k, you could buy four or five of the houses in our subdivision. Several of them much nicer than ours.

 

I'd call this a solid middle class area. Most two income, some sahm, probably an average salary of $70k a year per house.

 

The only reason we can afford to live here is bc we put a lot of money down, got a great fixed mortgage, and live without any other debt.

 

There's newer homes in the subdivision one over and across the street. They are fancy, tho smaller, but the price isn't much more. I think they top out at 200k.

[Murphy101]

"Hip" in many cities=the best schools. I have 2 friends who live in Seattle. One lives north of Seattle, she homeschools. She has a large house that costs around $200k. I have another friend who wanted to be in a really, really good school district. They paid $400k for a 1,000 sf sixties ranch with an updated kitchen.

 

Here? We rent a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house on a TINY lot (eta: the largest lots in the neighborhood are 6,500 sf). The house was previously on the market for $850k.

 

Here it means trendy, fashionable, old money houses from the oil booms of the 20s, near clubs, downtown, restaurants, and high end shopping. The schools are some of the worst. People with kids and the money to blow for these areas almost always send their kids to private schools.

 

Some buy for the easier commute. In theory. This is also some of the most traffic jammed areas of the city. I can get across town in 20 minutes most of the time. But it can take 30 just to drive through some of these sections.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have a 2800 sqft, four bedroom, plus game room and formal dining, 2.5 bath, 2 car garage in a nice neighborhood. Little over three years ago I paid 163k. I think. We put a lot down and on points, so our loan was much less.

 

I know what you're saying. When we bought our house in NC we paid around $118. But, you couldn't buy a house, ANY house on Oahu for that. A 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom condo in a crappy area is $120K. Location is everything when it comes to real estate. There is no point in comparing.

[rwjx2khsmj]

My 5 bedroom, 3 1/2 bath, 3400 sq ft, almost exactly 1 acre of land, big pool with diving board house is only abut $325,000 here in Alabama. :) I am thankful for that too. I know what I have here, yet I still want to move to Phoenix, AZ.

 

My 5 bedroom 2 1/2 bath 4000 sq ft on an acre is listed for $194,900 in Indiana. Anyone want a house?!

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Ronette, I PM'd you, but here is the public version:

 

Our 1,800 + remodeled 2 car-garage-turned-master-bedroom, 3 other bedrooms, 2 bath, small kitchen on 2 acres with mature trees and detached large workshop sold 5 years ago (to us!) for less than $200,000.

[K&Rs Mom]

Location is everything when it comes to real estate. There is no point in comparing.

 

:iagree: But if anyone's looking at Michigan, we couldn't sell our 2800sf (2 story, historic, w/ carriage house) for more than 100K right now, and my mom's 2200sf was appraised about the same a couple months ago (different part of MI). For 400K, you could buy most of my block.

[Mejane]

I have a 2800 sqft, four bedroom, plus game room and formal dining, 2.5 bath, 2 car garage in a nice neighborhood. Little over three years ago I paid 163k. I think.

 

That's pretty close to our house, but we paid $410K five years ago. Everything needed updating and we're still working on it. :tongue_smilie: This is a small farm town, nothing trendy. Those are the towns next door.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Mejane

[Wheres Toto]

Oh come on. Is the entire state of NY stuck up or what? I do understand having to dress very professional and look "put together". My dh has to do that to. In fact, most professionals do. But only in media or fashion does your job require you spend $100+ on one article of clothing. Are there no goodwills and targets there?

 

I do agree that some of the "costs" of working are inflated. Yes, there's daycare and commuting but a good bit of the rest of it is optional. I worked in professional offices and did trade conventions. I was still able to get by with a few nice separates - pants, blouses, jackets, sweaters - that were washable (no dry cleaning bills), I never got my nails done, rarely got my hair done, never ate lunch out (some jobs I lived close enough to go home, usually bought from home - just about every office has a microwave these days), convenience food for dinner but much of that is actually cheaper than from scratch cooking (but I will admit, not healthier). Every office I worked in also had a coffee machine but I never developed a taste for coffee - can't stand the stuff.

 

You can get a nice 5bd colonial (if that's what you're into) on an acre or more in the $220-250k range around here. But you'd probably have to work in NJ/NY/Philly in order to pay for it! Good paying jobs are hard to come by in this area.

Our 1200sf 3bd house was less than that 5 years ago, and dh pulls a pretty long commute.

 

:iagree: and that commute is brutal. Most of the jobs are between Exits 42 to 60 off Route 80. I used to commute just from the Exit 28 area (PA border being Exit 1) and THAT was he!! on a daily basis even without bad weather thrown in.

[jld]

Which is why around here you can have a two income family that brings in 250k and STILL be scratching out barely.

 

 

I understand that Chuck Schumer has suggested the tax cuts only be extended for people making less than a million a year. While $250k is more than most of us from the Midwest can imagine bringing in every year, it apparently doesn't go very far on the coasts.

[cathmom]

 

 

 

 

And the blue states on the East coast subsidize the red states in the middle so when conversations like this come up, it's like nails on a chalkboard. Easy for those who are living in the middle to say just move, or how foolish it all is. Well, you'd be paying much, much more if it weren't for us moneymakers.

 

And then the people from there move to the South and drive up our house prices and taxes, because they're amazed at what they can buy here and how low the taxes are. I've watched it happen over the last 15 years.

 

Yes. I believe it's 40 cents on the dollar that does not stay in NJ. But that's OK, our taxes just keep going up and up. Tax assessor was just here last week and that was after we fought to get them lowered to 15k. And 15k is LOW here. Thankfully , I read somewhere that lawmakers are realizing this is a problem and are starting to address it.

 

I don't understand what you mean about money not staying in NJ. Can you explain?

 

Dh and I are from NJ (south, though). We won't ever move back because of the combination of house prices and taxes. It's unthinkable to me to have a fully paid for house and then STILL be paying the equivalent of a mortgage on taxes! Yes, the government does need to address it because it is totally unsustainable.

[mommaduck]

And then the people from there move to the South and drive up our house prices and taxes, because they're amazed at what they can buy here and how low the taxes are. I've watched it happen over the last 15 years.

 

BINGO! It happened in Illinois. People from LA and other places in CA would move to Illinois, bring their money, buy property, and drive up the housing market amoungst other things. People from PA would buy farmland in MO and IL, offering asking or more than asking (because they can) price, and it caused land pricing increase affecting the community around them (negatively).

[Murphy101]

I don't know if that's true.

 

Median, not average, income seems to be less than $75k in New York state?

 

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ocs/liheap/guidance/SMI75FY09.pdf

 

http://www.city-data.com/city/New-York-New-York.html

 

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36000.html

 

 

 

So where are all those people living and buying?

I have a feeling for all the complaint about how $250k just isn't enough to live decent is a distortion of what qualifies as decent is for the rest of the population?

 

Kind of like someone saying those homes in the link looked like lower end middle class homes to them.:001_huh: I'm in the midwest that everyone thinks is so cheap and I don't know anyone that wouldn't consider those upper middle class to low high class luxury type homes. The only exception might have been the Sacramento house to my mind.

 

Now before anyone skewers me, if people can afford those homes, I think that's awesome for them. That's really not an issue for me.

 

It's the notion that homes like that are expected standards of some kind for the average middle class family watching the show. Those are expensive fancy homes and most Americans are never going to be able to responsibly and reasonably take on that kind of mortgage. But the media message is that not only should they be ble to afford it, it's a bargain? And we wonder why our country is a financial mess?:001_huh:

[mommaduck]

I don't know if that's true.

 

Median, not average, income seems to be less than $75k in New York state?

 

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ocs/liheap/guidance/SMI75FY09.pdf

 

http://www.city-data.com/city/New-York-New-York.html

 

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36000.html

 

 

 

So where are all those people living and buying?

I have a feeling for all the complaint about how $250k just isn't enough to live decent is a distortion of what qualifies as decent is for the rest of the population?

 

Kind of like someone saying those homes in the link looked like lower end middle class homes to them.:001_huh: I'm in the midwest that everyone thinks is so cheap and I don't know anyone that wouldn't consider those upper middle class to low high class luxury type homes. The only exception might have been the Sacramento house to my mind.

 

Now before anyone skewers me, if people can afford those homes, I think that's awesome for them. That's really not an issue for me.

 

It's the notion that homes like that are expected standards of some kind for the average middle class family watching the show. Those are expensive fancy homes and most Americans are never going to be able to responsibly and reasonably take on that kind of mortgage. But the media message is that not only should they be ble to afford it, it's a bargain? And we wonder why our country is a financial mess?:001_huh:

Well stated.

[Catwoman]

I'll raise my hand :001_smile:

 

DH just picked out and got his new car, which is his Christmas present....he was driving an 11-year old volvo and it needed to be replaced - no way it was going to make it through another winter.

 

 

Cool! What kind of car did he get?

 

Cat

[gingersmom]

Sorry to be the odd man out........

 

I love that segment they do all the time with Barbara Corcoran.

 

Granted, I have lived my whole life in NYC and its suburbs.

 

Those houses look amazing to me and the prices are even better.

 

Spend some time in my shoes (aka my house) and you might even agree with me.

[Catwoman]

The idea of having to drive more than 5 minutes to find a grocery store/discount store/high-end retailer seems foreign to me.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Cat

[Catwoman]

We do this, too. A couple of years ago, we gave each other a new roof for our anniversary. ;):D

 

Oh you crazy romantic fools! :D

 

What'll it be this year? Re-paving the driveway? (Or are you saving that one for Valentine's Day?) ;)

 

Cat

[jld]

Oh you crazy romantic fools! :D

 

What'll it be this year? Re-paving the driveway? (Or are you saving that one for Valentine's Day?) ;)

 

Cat

 

Lol!

[Catwoman]

Oh come on. Is the entire state of NY stuck up or what? I do understand having to dress very professional and look "put together". My dh has to do that to. In fact, most professionals do. But only in media or fashion does your job require you spend $100+ on one article of clothing. Are there no goodwills and targets there?

 

 

It's not just NY, but NJ and CT as well. And yes, you have to spend more than $100 on a dress, a suit, or a nice blazer -- and certainly not just for a job in media or fashion. Cheap clothing looks cheap, and if you have a good job, you need to look nice, which means that you need good quality clothing, a good dry cleaner, and a competent tailor. You probably won't find what you need at a Goodwill store, but if you can, more power to you! You certainly won't find adequate work clothes at Target, unless you're shopping for things like plain tanks or turtlenecks. You might get lucky at a high-end consignment store, but you still won't get a suit or designer dress for $100.

 

Ultimately, you're better off spending some money on high quality clothing and taking care of it, than you are buying a bunch of junk from Target that won't last past the season (and that probably won't fit well or be made of good fabric.)

 

If you have a great job (or want to advance to one,) you have to dress the part, and unfortunately, that costs money.

 

I'm sorry to say this, and perhaps I am completely misinterpreting your posts, but you seem to have some resentment toward the people who are able to afford to pay high prices for things. Please don't think that we want to overpay for things, or wouldn't love to be able to buy a great house for $400k, but things cost what they cost in our area, so we deal with it.

 

Cat

Edited December 4, 2010 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

I don't know if that's true.

 

Median, not average, income seems to be less than $75k in New York state?

 

 

 

The income in upstate NY is far less than it is in the metro area, and that skews the statistics significantly. Also, not everyone in NYC makes a lot of money -- there are plenty of people working in stores, in service jobs, and other places where the salaries are relatively low. Most of those people don't live in Manhattan -- they commute in and out every day.

 

Cat

Edited December 4, 2010 by Catwoman

[Renee in NC]

It's not just NY, but NJ and CT as well. And yes, you have to spend more than $100 on a dress, a suit, or a nice blazer. Cheap clothing looks cheap, and if you have a good job, you need to look nice, which means that you need good quality clothing, a good dry cleaner, and a competent tailor. You probably won't find what you need at a Goodwill store, but if you can, more power to you! You certainly won't find adequate work clothes at Target, unless you're shopping for things like plain tanks or turtlenecks.

 

Ultimately, you're better off spending some money on high quality clothing and taking care of it, than you are buying a bunch of junk from Target that won't last past the season (and that probably won't fit well or be made of good fabric.)

 

If you have a great job (or want to advance to one,) you have to dress the part.

 

Cat

 

I agree that you need good clothes if you are in (or hope to be in) a high end job. However, my brother manages to do it entirely through thrift stores, consignment shops, and ebay. He knows his brands well and hits the stores often. It only takes him a couple of minutes to look through a store to see what they have. He refuses to buy new.

[pqr]

The idea of having to drive more than 5 minutes to find a grocery store/discount store/high-end retailer seems foreign to me.

 

Ahhh but when you can find it you are one step closer to Paradise.

 

It is amazing how many people I know who have never seen the stars, I don't mean those paltry few one can see from the city or suburbia, but stars you can read by.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

It's not just NY, but NJ and CT as well. And yes, you have to spend more than $100 on a dress, a suit, or a nice blazer. Cheap clothing looks cheap, and if you have a good job, you need to look nice, which means that you need good quality clothing, a good dry cleaner, and a competent tailor. You probably won't find what you need at a Goodwill store, but if you can, more power to you! You certainly won't find adequate work clothes at Target, unless you're shopping for things like plain tanks or turtlenecks.

 

Ultimately, you're better off spending some money on high quality clothing and taking care of it, than you are buying a bunch of junk from Target that won't last past the season (and that probably won't fit well or be made of good fabric.)

 

If you have a great job (or want to advance to one,) you have to dress the part.

 

Cat

 

It's that way here in DC too. DH has to look nice, PLUS, he needs his shirts to have size 37 sleeves, so we order off the internet and spend $75-$100 per shirt and pants average about $150-$200. I don't even think that is the "high end" stuff, LOL, I'm sure there are people around here dressed better... but that's all we can spend on clothing right now. Don't even get me STARTED on suits!!! Atleast DH only has to wear those on "important" occasions...

 

ETA: DH doesn't work for the media or Fashion, just the government.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Gao Meixue

[justamouse]

I thought they were nice houses, but wouldn't consider them to be luxury homes. I was amazed at the prices, though -- you wouldn't get anything remotely that nice for $400,000 here.

 

Cat

 

Yup, nice, but defiantly not luxury.

 

You can get a nice 5bd colonial (if that's what you're into) on an acre or more in the $220-250k range around here. But you'd probably have to work in NJ/NY/Philly in order to pay for it! Good paying jobs are hard to come by in this area.

Our 1200sf 3bd house was less than that 5 years ago, and dh pulls a pretty long commute.

 

Most people who work in the poconos commute to the NJ suburban area at the cost of 2.5 hours commute one way. That's very hard on a family. You may not pay the cost in house, but you pay in commute. It all depends on what you have to do.

 

Location is everything when it comes to real estate. There is no point in comparing.

 

:iagree:

 

Oh come on. Is the entire state of NY stuck up or what? I do understand having to dress very professional and look "put together". My dh has to do that to. In fact, most professionals do. But only in media or fashion does your job require you spend $100+ on one article of clothing. Are there no goodwills and targets there?

 

a decent pair of pants from Lands' End is 50 bucks. And that's conservative. and if you worked in media or fashion, 100 would be the least you spent on an item.

 

 

But the point stands that if we are going to seriously discuss tighter finances, the only reasonable choice to no more capp or very occasionally. Some need to suck it up and accept they have to drink regular coffee from a regular coffee maker.

 

many people do

 

We need to stop talking about what the price was pre bubble. The bubble was a scam of over rated prices. Not what we should base what a reasonable price is for today.

pre bubble my house was 800k. I bought it for much less, and yes, it was a deal. Which is why I snapped it up. 4 bed 3.5 bath, inground pool, .6 acres, 3 car garage, and gorgeously old. It's very worth it. I have a fantastic location.

 

 

not buying that either

 

Certainly not the implication that those in the breadbasket of America are not moneymakers. Not sure where that came from.:glare:

 

I don't doubt that cost of living is crazy nuts on the coasts.

No one here is arguing otherwise.

But that's not a valid argument for claiming a country house in other states is a deal at 400k.

 

if there is no work, then the houses are cheap. If there is work, the house prices reflect that. I might get a 'deal' on a 5 bed house in the middle of the country but I wouldn't be able to afford it because we wouldn't have a company.

 

I suppose the comment that it is a deal for what it is might be true, but I still think it shows a huge disconnect with a heck of a lot of Americans viewing a national program.

 

 

It seems a disconnect to many, I'm sure, but to those of us here-they're spot on. So where's the disconnect?

[LibraryLover]

--And the blue states on the East coast subsidize the red states in the middle so when conversations like this come up, it's like nails on a chalkboard. Easy for those who are living in the middle to say just move, or how foolish it all is. Well, you'd be paying much, much more if it weren't for us moneymakers---

 

 

OK, don't really want to go there...but...

 

It's not that we like paying so much for so little, it's just this is where the jobs are, where we have family & community, libraries with free ILL and all that other jazz that isn't always available everywhere. It's hard to think about leaving those we love, or streets where every home is occupied, even when we know we could have a whole lot more house for a whole lot less somewhere else.

Edited December 4, 2010 by LibraryLover

[jld]

 

I don't understand what you mean about money not staying in NJ. Can you explain?

 

 

 

I'm not exactly sure myself, and I hope someone will come along and explain it better than I can, but in the meantime . . .

 

I think the money we all pay in federal taxes goes into a big kitty in DC, and then gets dished out to various states. For example, the Defense Dept. gets a big chunk and sends out various amounts to various military posts, most of which are in the South, so the South benefits from that federal money. Then lawmakers bid for earmarks, and the money for the earmarks goes to whichever states get them. So while someone from Mississippi may pay very little in taxes compared to justamouse in NJ, Mississippi may get more back in fed money than New Jersey. That's why she's saying the blue states pay for the red states.

 

It's irritating to people in blue states that they are subsidizing people in red states, who may have very different values, say, than the people in the blue states who are putting the money up for them. Blue states don't want to be constrained by the values of red states.

 

And I could be wrong about all of this. This is just my understanding of the funding, and some of the controversy over it.

[Renee in NC]

The income in upstate NY is far less than it is in the metro area, and that skews the statistics.

 

Cat

 

The median income in NYC itself varies by borough. None of them have a median income over that of the state as a whole. For mean income, only Staten Island and Manhatten are higher than NY state and only Manhatten's is significantly higher ($121,000.) This is household income, not individual. I imagine that why it seems different than that is the gulf between the have's and the have-not's in NYC is huge.

 

Most people in NYC do not have super-high incomes, but the ones you notice do.

[pqr]

--And the blue states on the East coast subsidize the red states in the middle so when conversations like this come up, it's like nails on a chalkboard. Easy for those who are living in the middle to say just move, or how foolish it all is. Well, you'd be paying much, much more if it weren't for us moneymakers---

 

 

:) That's true too, Justamouse. It's not that we like paying so much for so little, it's just this is where the jobs are, where we have family & community, and libraries with free ILL. It's hard to think about leaving, even when we know we could have a whole lot more house somewhere else.

 

 

It is more than just a house one can get elsewhere. I used to live in an area where people never locked their doors, where neighbours would check in on one and other and where community still existed. I know that still is to be found in some places on the coasts but I dare say not in the city or suburbia.

[justamouse]

Ahhh but when you can find it you are one step closer to Paradise.

 

It is amazing how many people I know who have never seen the stars, I don't mean those paltry few one can see from the city or suburbia, but stars you can read by.

 

I have. But I needed the job on the East Coast to afford the vacation.

[pqr]

I have. But I needed the job on the East Coast to afford the vacation.

 

 

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.darkskysociety.org/images/gallery/usatnight.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.darkskysociety.org/resources.cfm%3Fpage%3Dgallery&h=429&w=640&sz=36&tbnid=DjICyYxY3QtcqM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dworld%2Bat%2Bnight%2Bfrom%2Bspace&zoom=1&q=world+at+night+from+space&usg=__4hhAu28mduXCtt3rwJpUbKLeXnc=&sa=X&ei=OqP5TLq7CYv2swPczICdCA&ved=0CBkQ9QEwAQ

[justamouse]

I'm not exactly sure myself, and I hope someone will come along and explain it better than I can, but in the meantime . . .

 

I think the money we all pay in federal taxes goes into a big kitty in DC, and then gets dished out to various states. For example, the Defense Dept. gets a big chunk and sends out various amounts to various military posts, most of which are in the South, so the South benefits from that federal money. Then lawmakers bid for earmarks, and the money for the earmarks goes to whichever states get them. So while someone from Mississippi may pay very little in taxes compared to justamouse in NJ, Mississippi may get more back in fed money than New Jersey. That's why she's saying the blue states pay for the red states.

 

It's irritating to people in blue states that they are subsidizing people in red states, who may have very different values, say, than the people in the blue states who are putting the money up for them. Blue states don't want to be constrained by the values of red states.

 

And I could be wrong about all of this. This is just my understanding of the funding, and some of the controversy over it.

 

 

Exactly. Exactly. Thank you, I didn't see her question.

[LibraryLover]

It is more than just a house one can get elsewhere. I used to live in an area where people never locked their doors, where neighbours would check in on one and other and where community still existed. I know that still is to be found in some places on the coasts but I dare say not in the city or suburbia.

 

 

I changed my post...;) I knew what you were saying and wanted not to go there.

 

 

 

nm

Edited December 4, 2010 by LibraryLover

[LisaKinVA]

The median income in NY is about $75,000 -- that means half the population is making MORE than $75,000, and half the population of NY is making LESS... The half making more than $75,000 could be making a whole heckuva lot more ($250,000+).

 

In VA, the median household income is $78,000 -- but I can pretty much guarantee most of the people in Blacksburg aren't pocketing that much -- and that more than half of the population in Loudon and Fairfax County are making about twice that. Where I live, in Stafford County, the average household is making about $75,000 a year, with about 50% of the families being two-income. Our housing market FINALLY reflects this, and you can now get a decent new "starter home" for about $200-250,000, you can get an older "starter home" that needs cosmetic renovation for around $170,000, and an even older "starter home" that probably needs a lot more renovation for $125-150,000.

 

We just closed on our construction loan, and will be building a 3,000 sq. ft. home on a full walk-out, daylight basement, on a 3 acre lot for $364,000 (the appraised value, based on recent sales comps has the house worth about $449,000. We're building it for less because we are able to do a lot of the work ourselves, and we are already $65,000 "in"). It will be a nice "upgraded" middle-class, to upper-middle-class home... although I feel like anything BUT upper-middle class in my 9yo mini-van, and my dh 10yo coupe, shopping at consignment shops for most day-to-day clothes, and fretting over spending $45 on a haircut once a year. FWIW, the house is our only debt, and we've been waiting for this house for almost 9 years now. Most people in Stafford County making decent incomes also commute to DC area daily.

 

$400,000 in Stafford County (about an hour southy of DC gets you a new 3000 square foot home, on about a .18 to .20 of an acre lot, with granite countertops, hardwood in foyer/LR/DR, maple cabinets, a little crown molding, some basic bathroom finishes, and a partially-to-mostly-finished basement. Or, a 2600 sq. ft. home (same type of finishes) on 3 acres.

[pqr]

 

 

It's irritating to people in blue states that they are subsidizing people in red states, who may have very different values, say, than the people in the blue states who are putting the money up for them. Blue states don't want to be constrained by the values of red states.

.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't those in the blue states the ones pushing for higher taxes on the "wealthy." Don't you have just what you asked for? Come on....you can afford it....why would you complain about supporting those who earn less than you? Deem it state to state welfare, isn't that your social responsibility? In fact I think we should raise the taxes on the wealthiest states to pay for those poor disadvantaged states.

Edited December 4, 2010 by pqr

[jld]

Exactly. Exactly. Thank you, I didn't see her question.

 

You're welcome. How would you like to see this change, justamouse? What would be a more fair, or more just way to divide up the money? Just let each state live with its own wealth, and not share with poorer states?

[justamouse]

pqr, I screwed up the quote-sorry.

 

Yes, I've seen that before, but there are areas here where you see the milky way from horizon to horizon. :001_smile:

[LibraryLover]

You're welcome. How would you like to see this change, justamouse? What would be a more fair, or more just way to divide up the money? Just let each state live with its own wealth, and not share with poorer states?

 

 

I personally wouldn't want to see that. I want out of this part of the conversation.

[pqr]

pqr, I screwed up the quote-sorry.

 

Yes, I've seen that before, but there are areas here where you see the milky way from horizon to horizon. :001_smile:

 

and it is beautiful.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

It is more than just a house one can get elsewhere. I used to live in an area where people never locked their doors, where neighbours would check in on one and other and where community still existed. I know that still is to be found in some places on the coasts but I dare say not in the city or suburbia.

 

This is not so cut and dry though. I lived in such a place all through middle and high school. We never locked the doors and everyone knew everybody else. I wouldn't raise my child there if you PAID me, I don't care how cheap it is, LOL. I have NEVER met so many racist, close minded, mean, hypocritical people in my LIFE. We moved there from suburbia outside of Atlanta, and it was complete culture shock!! The kids in the country knew more about drugs, sex, alcohol than ANY of my friends in the suburbs, plus they had the highest teen pregnancy rates in the state of Georgia! I think I would rather pay more and lock my doors, LOL :)

 

And I LOVE the sense of community I have here, less than 30 miles outside of DC :)

[Murphy101]

It's not just NY, but NJ and CT as well. And yes, you have to spend more than $100 on a dress, a suit, or a nice blazer. Cheap clothing looks cheap, and if you have a good job, you need to look nice, which means that you need good quality clothing, a good dry cleaner, and a competent tailor. You probably won't find what you need at a Goodwill store, but if you can, more power to you! You certainly won't find adequate work clothes at Target, unless you're shopping for things like plain tanks or turtlenecks.

 

Ultimately, you're better off spending some money on high quality clothing and taking care of it, than you are buying a bunch of junk from Target that won't last past the season (and that probably won't fit well or be made of good fabric.)

 

If you have a great job (or want to advance to one,) you have to dress the part.

 

Cat

 

What are you defining as a "great" job? (Never minding that obviously the majority can't all have great jobs.)

 

I know people that make 6 figures. It's not like I live in the ghetto. I don't know anyone that feels that have to spend that kind of money on clothes, much less one item, to get or keep their great professional jobs.

 

And I don't know what's wrong with your Target or what you are doing to them. Either the clothes fit when they are purchased or not. There's the clothes aren't "lasting" a year in an office job, then there's something screwy going on. I've got dresses and skirts and tops and shoes I've had for many many years. I don't think I've ever spent more than $40 tops for an article of clothing in my life. Maybe a coat. I wear out my rebooks about every 6 years and spend about a $100 on those then. But my wear to church or work type clothes that don't see much more wear and tear than walking, sitting, and standing, then go home and change into jeans? They look like new for years.

 

I know CPAs, lawyers, engineers, corporate contractors and facilitators, professors, winery owner, drafting designer, high end real estate broker, military security expert.....

 

All these people have "great" jobs as deemed by income and needing a professional image.

 

Not trying to pick a fight. I'm honestly not seeing that as an issue for most people I know. :confused: Though I do know a few who use that as their excuse to do it.:)

[pqr]

This is not so cut and dry though. I lived in such a place all through middle and high school. We never locked the doors and everyone knew everybody else. I wouldn't raise my child there if you PAID me, I don't care how cheap it is, LOL. I have NEVER met so many racist, close minded, mean, hypocritical people in my LIFE. We moved there from suburbia outside of Atlanta, and it was complete culture shock!! The kids in the country knew more about drugs, sex, alcohol than ANY of my friends in the suburbs, plus they had the highest teen pregnancy rates in the state of Georgia! I think I would rather pay more and lock my doors, LOL :)

 

And I LOVE the sense of community I have here, less than 30 miles outside of DC :)

 

 

We all have different experiences, but I see you are outside DC not inside.