Marriage intact only due to finances?

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'll be honest and say that yes, I think financial consideration needs to be given. I would not divorce just because the love is gone. No, I wouldn't stay in an abusive situation.

 

...

 

Honestly, I'd rather put up with a ho-hum marriage than stress out my kids. I think their security and welfare are more important than whether I have a romantic, touchy-feely marriage. I chose my partner, but my children didn't have any choice in the matter. In this stage in my life, I would be willing to lay my life down for them. Again, I am not speaking of abusive situations.

I agree 100%. I'm actually a bit surprised at how many disagree.

 

 

And, yes, child support can be very expensive. My husband had to pay it for four year until he was granted full custody. He never sought child custody payments from his ex-wife, though. I'm always astonished at how many people think a man should pay child support but think women shouldn't.

I have found this to be the case as well. Right now my nephew has custody of his two children and has not gotten one penny of child support. The judge doesn't seem to be concerned about it. However, about a year ago, his ex tried to get custody and was asking for a huge amount of child support on top of this. This was particularly funny since my nephew had been laid off from his job and was unemployed. Edited November 18, 2010 by JudyJudyJudy

[texasmama]

In the graduate course I am currently teaching, there are two students from India. As this is a clinical social work course, we talk about many different topics involving mental health, marriage and family. The two students from India (here in the U.S. to pursue graduate degrees and then planning on returning to their homeland) spoke of arranged versus "love" marriages based on their experience. Another student made a negative comment about arranged marriages. My response was that the way we seem to be "doing" marriage in the U.S. is not particularly effective so I had no comments about how other countries "do" marriage. Everyone laughed but only because it is true.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

To be quite honest - this is me. I cannot afford to leave.

I have never had a full time job and I need the insurance from my DH's employer.

[Joanne]

I couldn't agree more. Too often divorce seems to just be used as "the easy way out" that the couple finds out isn't actually all that easy. What happens to people after the divorce? Our culture has this kind of myth circulating that divorce is better for the children, and that two people who have previously led one life but now go their separate ways have a chance to be more complete, happy people. There's even the idea that divorce will allow them to be better parents.

 

My experiences tell me otherwise. I can't think of a single divorced couple who embody that rosy storyline. Truth be told, most of them are more miserable now than they were when they were married, due to all the stresses associated with divorce. Many of them have become very bitter people. I don't think any of the children would tell you that the divorce improved things for them.

 

My parents had a stormy relationship as far back as I can remember. They divorced when I was about ten. I remember hoping that now it might be a bit like the movies where the parents, having divorced, learn to mutually respect one another and become friends. Nope. The poison between them seemed to only double, and to this day they can't seem to "escape their past" so to speak. Even after all these years and new relationships (one even re-married) they seem preoccupied with their former marriage. I would say that at the core, their attitudes are shaped by one word: regret. And I'm not romanticizing when I say that it would have been much better for us kids had they just stayed together.

 

Divorce, in most cases, just seems like a no-win situation to me. Happiness depends on ourselves. It isn't something that a simple change in scenery is going to solve.

 

My experience and observation is the opposite.

 

I believe there is a myth of the superficial divorce. I have been divorced, I have been in divorce support groups, I have been around groups of divorced people of faith, I have sponsored a couple of dozen people in AA or Al Anon who have divorced. I have not met one person who divorced lightly, easily, superficially or as the easy way out. Not one. I have, however, seen dozens of people who don't share their marriage and divorce related agony and pain to a wide population of people.

 

I honestly find the "responsible for your own happiness" mentality is taken out of healthy context.

 

Equating a person's *divorce* with a "simple change of scenary" is trivializing a pain, frustration, and transition that for most people is life altering and profound.

 

Divorce isn't the problem. The bad marriages and the lasting effects of bad marriages is a much, much greater problem and determining factor of future happiness.

[Mejane]

 

 

Honestly, I'd rather put up with a ho-hum marriage than stress out my kids. I think their security and welfare are more important than whether I have a romantic, touchy-feely marriage. I chose my partner, but my children didn't have any choice in the matter. In this stage in my life, I would be willing to lay down my life for them.

 

Yes, and laying down one's life doesn't just mean taking a bullet for someone. It also means you put yourself and your happiness aside so they can be happy. So many people who say this would take the bullet, but they won't stay if they're not happy.

 

You're a grownup. You put your kids before a tingle between your legs. A bit crude, yes, but I've seen too many kids destroyed because mom or dad "fell out of love" and had to go out and find IT with no regard to what that meant for their family, both emotionally and financially. Really, some people just need to grow up and get over the fairy tale.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Mejane

[Nestof3]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Unless my husband were harmful to me and my children, their needs come before my need for a man who fulfills all of my emotional needs. I think we each tear one another down in a marriage with our actions and words. Add that to the fact that newness wears off most of the time, and marriage becomes something you actually have to work on.

 

I saw my friend's husband leave her while she was pregnant because he realized he wasn't ready to be tied down. Of course, he had been sleeping with his coworker in Maine while she was back in Virginia trying to pack up their belongings so she could join him. The jerk should have grown up and faced his choice like a man. Their poor daughter hates the back and forth thing now.

 

I speak from experience on this too -- not as a divorced woman but as a stepmom. Yes, things worked out well for us in that Aaron and I have a far better relationship than most step-parents have (so I hear). His bio mom moved away, and things were rather uncomplicated on our end.

 

But, the divorce did profoundly affect Aaron. Having to leave in the middle of Christmas Day to spend Christmas dinner with his grandparents (his mom never came down for it), did affect him. Feeling torn between parents with different standards was hard. Having to spend many hours in before and after school programs while other kids were home affected him. His bio mom had such a hard time keeping up with everything that he doesn't remember being put to bed or being told to brush his teeth and get ready for bed. He used to make his own root beer floats in the middle of the night and fall asleep to Nick at Night when he was six and seven years old.

 

I can say that when she left and when they divorced, they were thinking of their own happiness, not Aaron's. They should have tried harder. And, yes, I have told my husband this.

 

Yes, and laying down one's life doesn't just mean taking a bullet for someone. It also means you put yourself and your happiness aside so they can be happy. So many people who say this would take the bullet, but they won't stay if they're not happy.

 

You're a grownup. You put your kids before a tingle between your legs. A bit crude, yes, but I've seen too many kids destroyed because mom or dad "fell out of love" and had to go out and find IT with no regard to what that meant for their family. Really, some people just need to grow up and get over the fairy tale.

Edited November 18, 2010 by nestof3

[jld]

In the graduate course I am currently teaching, there are two students from India. As this is a clinical social work course, we talk about many different topics involving mental health, marriage and family. The two students from India (here in the U.S. to pursue graduate degrees and then planning on returning to their homeland) spoke of arranged versus "love" marriages based on their experience. Another student made a negative comment about arranged marriages. My response was that the way we seem to be "doing" marriage in the U.S. is not particularly effective so I had no comments about how other countries "do" marriage. Everyone laughed but only because it is true.

 

Ugh. Based on what I see around me here in India, I cannot endorse arranged marriages.

[mommaduck]

What are your thought about this?

 

My friend recently confided in me that she and her dh are only still married because they can't afford to get divorced. :confused: They've been living like this for over five years. They have three children; the oldest is grown, the youngest is my kids' age. She has always been a SAHM, and has homeschooled all of her kids at different stages as she has deemed necessary. He has had enough breeches of the same manner during their marriage to warrant divorce (imo, anyway), but every time she tries to leave, the final discussion comes down to how they cannot afford to support two households.

 

I'll be honest when I say I question her sanity for staying with him - he's not a "bad" guy, just an incredibly self absorbed one. She claims there hasn't been a "love" in many, many years, but they remain married out of financial necessity. Gosh, I'm not sure I could handle the emotional end of something like that.

 

What am I missing? Is this reasonable? Can a marriage survive this sort of...compromise...? How many marriages are like this, do you think?

I've known couples like this. Generally there is *some* affection, regardless that none of it may be romantic. I've known some that argue and fuss at each other, but stay together. It's a matter of commitment, practicality, etc. No, not ideal, but it's what has been through much of history.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Well, on the upside, in a study done a few years ago of couples very seriously considering divorce, those who stayed together were happier 5 years later than those who had divorced.

 

I am guessing that life didn't become blissful, but they were happier than the other people and so there is hope for things to improve.:grouphug:

 

Thank you for the words of encouragement.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Well, many times, these become a marriage of convenience. I have a family member who chose to stay in a loveless marriage for financial reasons (they could afford to divorce as they paid cash for 2 kids to go to college and then grad school). They didn't feel that their lives would be better divorced because of the financial consideration (I think the husband didn't want to pay alimony.) They basically live separate lives while living in the same household. Purely social functions are separate, but they attend family functions together (even moreso now, surprisingly.

 

Not my cuppa, but if it works for them, who am I to criticize?

[skaterbabs]

DH and I are approaching our 15h anniversary. We were married at 18/19. If it weren't for the kids, I'm not sure we'd still be together, but at this point the lack of formal education (no degree= no job) dictates that we stay together whether it's the best thing for our family or not. For all intents and purposes, I am a single parent. DH often sleeps at the office, sometimes not coming home for two or three days in a row. It's not unusual for the kids to not see him for days at a time. If I had the financial means to support another household, and continue educating the kids, I'd probably be gone. DH is a nice man, but not a good husband, and a mostly absentee father.

[nono]

I'm not sure I could feel good about the state of my life if the only reason my dh wanted me around was because he couldn't afford to get rid of me.

 

Oh trust me, it feels just fine! :D

 

My dh's reading over my shoulder, and we're both hysterically laughing because there's soooo an element of truth to this. He says, "I don't feel like moving home and living with my Mother!"

 

Seriously, though, we have a commitment to each other and to keeping our family in one piece, because our lifestyles would never be the same if we had to support two households. Are we always in love with each other? No. Not at all. But, our philosophy is to make it work, as individuals, as a couple and as a family. Sometimes one piece of that puzzle lags while other sectors perform well. And, that's good enough. :)

[JenC3]

I would have been baffled, too, until I met my ex. I am a perfectly rational, secure person, but I just don't think 11 years (particularly without physical affection the last 7) was "lust" on my part. Ronald Reagan once said that when Nancy came into a room, the whole room lit up for him. It was that way (and probably still would be) for me vis a vis my ex. Just as a book or movie or a physical place "resonates" with you, a person can, too.

 

I don't know if you've ever met a person with profound charisma (I'm not saying my ex had it). I recall a college professor whom everyone spoke of reverently. One day I went to his room to ask him for a list of scientific articles I should read if I was interested in graduate school in X. He was no more than 5'5", not handsome, greying, a bit of acne scar on his face, nothing exceptional. He was standing in his office looking at a book, the sun at his back, his door open. I went up to the door and he looked up and asked me what I wanted. I could barely speak. I felt like I was in the presence of ROYALTY. He was polite, he was helpful, he was dignified and IMPRESSIVE. He had PRESENCE. Now I understood why people raved about him. I even read his books, after that.

 

Anyway, my ex had, for me, personally, a profound charisma, and I was probably a bit selfish and foolish, and asked him over and over to try to make the marriage work after he asked out. And when, for his sake, I finally decided to let him go, I felt I was peeling one finger at a time off of some beloved object I would never get to see again. I had to force myself to let him go.

 

I know lust. This was not lust. This was not "mothering", this was the emotional energy people get when they die for causes. And it was out of character for me.

 

There is a truism that shows up on posters: they won't remember what you said, they won't remember what you did, but they will remember how you made them feel. I used to call my ex my Etch-A-Sketch: anything bad or hurtful or unpleasant, any heartache or fear, anything negative in my life just vanished when I met him, like an Etch-A-Sketch turned upsidedown and shaken. I had clear memory of my past, but the hurt was gone from all of my past. How could one not cleave to a person who has such a profound influence, for the positive, to your heart and mind.

 

There? Can you see it is possible now?

(And no, he was not honest with me, and no, I didn't respect him after I learned his dishonesty, and how can one trust someone who wants to leave you?)

 

This really spoke to me b/c I had a relationship before dh that was like this and it left me the same way. I remember what ended it for me was telling him I was offered a job across the country and offhandedly said he should come and he responded with "there's nothing there for me"...um, ok?

 

I truly believe that God chose my dh for me and I for him. This belief alone was at one time, early in our marriage, the only thing that kept us together. Now we work on our marriage, but with little kids, it's not fun much of the time. We actively get out b/c we are the type of people that needs lots of time to talk, talk, talk!

[texasmama]

Ugh. Based on what I see around me here in India, I cannot endorse arranged marriages.

 

Oh, I wasn't meaning to do so, either - just pointing out that Americans can't criticize others when our own "system" is so broken.

[Audrey]

Yes, and laying down one's life doesn't just mean taking a bullet for someone. It also means you put yourself and your happiness aside so they can be happy. So many people who say this would take the bullet, but they won't stay if they're not happy.

 

You're a grownup. You put your kids before a tingle between your legs. A bit crude, yes, but I've seen too many kids destroyed because mom or dad "fell out of love" and had to go out and find IT with no regard to what that meant for their family, both emotionally and financially. Really, some people just need to grow up and get over the fairy tale.

 

 

Preferably BEFORE they bring kids into the world.

[jld]

Oh, I wasn't meaning to do so, either - just pointing out that Americans can't criticize others when our own "system" is so broken.

 

Actually, I think we can. We can all look at how marriage could be made better, for everyone, everywhere.

[asta]

I would have been baffled, too, until I met my ex. I am a perfectly rational, secure person, but I just don't think 11 years (particularly without physical affection the last 7) was "lust" on my part. Ronald Reagan once said that when Nancy came into a room, the whole room lit up for him. It was that way (and probably still would be) for me vis a vis my ex. Just as a book or movie or a physical place "resonates" with you, a person can, too.

 

I don't know if you've ever met a person with profound charisma (I'm not saying my ex had it). I recall a college professor whom everyone spoke of reverently. One day I went to his room to ask him for a list of scientific articles I should read if I was interested in graduate school in X. He was no more than 5'5", not handsome, greying, a bit of acne scar on his face, nothing exceptional. He was standing in his office looking at a book, the sun at his back, his door open. I went up to the door and he looked up and asked me what I wanted. I could barely speak. I felt like I was in the presence of ROYALTY. He was polite, he was helpful, he was dignified and IMPRESSIVE. He had PRESENCE. Now I understood why people raved about him. I even read his books, after that.

 

Anyway, my ex had, for me, personally, a profound charisma, and I was probably a bit selfish and foolish, and asked him over and over to try to make the marriage work after he asked out. And when, for his sake, I finally decided to let him go, I felt I was peeling one finger at a time off of some beloved object I would never get to see again. I had to force myself to let him go.

 

I know lust. This was not lust. This was not "mothering", this was the emotional energy people get when they die for causes. And it was out of character for me.

 

There is a truism that shows up on posters: they won't remember what you said, they won't remember what you did, but they will remember how you made them feel. I used to call my ex my Etch-A-Sketch: anything bad or hurtful or unpleasant, any heartache or fear, anything negative in my life just vanished when I met him, like an Etch-A-Sketch turned upsidedown and shaken. I had clear memory of my past, but the hurt was gone from all of my past. How could one not cleave to a person who has such a profound influence, for the positive, to your heart and mind.

 

There? Can you see it is possible now?

(And no, he was not honest with me, and no, I didn't respect him after I learned his dishonesty, and how can one trust someone who wants to leave you?)

 

Yep. It's hard to explain the sensation of the rest of the world falling away (literally, falling away, as if you are floating in space like an astronaut, prior to the beginning of known time) just from the brush of a hand.

 

It screws you up for a LONG time. And as a joyful bonus, skews your sense of reality! :001_smile:

 

Outwardly, yes. He's always been amiable around me, and I've known them well for close to 5 years. And to her...well, he's a liar. Plain and simple. I'm not sure how much he outwardly admits of his...issues...that might in turn humiliate her or their children, but she knows he lies about things constantly to her. I know the situation is troubling and hurtful to her on a real, day-to-day level.

 

Something you may wish to consider about your friend (and this probably won't be a popular opinion here), is that what she is relaying to you may or may not be reality.

 

Certainly, it does not sound as if she is in a comfortable situation, but unless you, personally, have seen her hubby galavanting with his secretary, you honestly don't know the situation.

 

I say this from first hand experience. When I was first becoming *very* ill with my seizures (as in, they were simply throwing drugs at me trying to see what would stick), my two largest "auras" (the thing you get before you have the seizure) were olfactory hallucinations (smelling something that isn't really there) and irrational fear. Since hubby was out of town a LOT for his work, and I was stuck at home, guess what my fear was? That he was lying to me - about everything. From finances to where he was *really* going, to women - I was convinced everything was a lie, no matter what he said, no matter how hard he tried to convince me to the contrary. The poor guy eventually gave up defending himself and just stopped saying anything. We had some rough years until the docs found medication that worked and then POOF! All of that fear vanished and I felt REALLY stupid.

 

The reason I relay this story is because it isn't just seizures that will do this to a person. Any chemical imbalance in the brain can do it, as can migraines.

 

Yes, there are some real losers out there in the world, I won't deny that. And we all want to be supportive friends. But sometimes that requires taking a hard look less at our friend's gripes and more at their overall health.

 

JMO

 

asta

[EthiopianFood]

I think it would be easier to live with a husband that is like a roommate or friend but who loves the kids and supports me, rather than living a lonely life of working full time, getting a degree, living with relatives and on welfare with my kids in ps and afterschool care. There are no guarantees that she'll find another man to marry and support her any time soon if she leaves dh, so she'd have to work full time and give up being with the kids all week. Comparatively, maybe her situation isn't as miserable as it might sound. (Not saying it's all sunshine, but it's not necessarily misery.)

 

Thank you for sparing me having to write all of that out. :001_smile: If I ever divorced, I would be giving up my children to a large extent, not just my husband, and that is inconceivable to me. Like someone else said, life is too short.

[annandatje]

What are your thought about this?

 

My friend recently confided in me that she and her dh are only still married because they can't afford to get divorced. :confused: They've been living like this for over five years. They have three children; the oldest is grown, the youngest is my kids' age. She has always been a SAHM, and has homeschooled all of her kids at different stages as she has deemed necessary. He has had enough breeches of the same manner during their marriage to warrant divorce (imo, anyway), but every time she tries to leave, the final discussion comes down to how they cannot afford to support two households.

 

I'll be honest when I say I question her sanity for staying with him - he's not a "bad" guy, just an incredibly self absorbed one. She claims there hasn't been a "love" in many, many years, but they remain married out of financial necessity. Gosh, I'm not sure I could handle the emotional end of something like that.

 

What am I missing? Is this reasonable? Can a marriage survive this sort of...compromise...? How many marriages are like this, do you think?

 

I have not read the pages of posts. Many more people than are willing to admit are in this situation. The reasons vary: fear of change, fear of imposing unnecessary financial hardship on children, immoblization via depression, placing priority on materialism over personal growth and fulfillment.

 

It is more "understandable" when the unhappy parties have a workable plan to reach financial self-sufficiency.

 

Marrying for love is a relatively recent concept.

[Murphy101]

Yes. Garga is right. Divorce is not always some miracle path to happiness. There's lots of people who aren't any happier divorced.

 

I know of exactly two couples that still seem to have a truely loving marriage. :(

 

I keep praying it changes. Life is too hard to endure alone.

 

They all say MY marriage is very unique.

 

Maybe she feels that living with relatives, giving up homeschooling, working all day while someone else raises the kids, living on welfare isn't "rising above it."

 

I think it would be easier to live with a husband that is like a roommate or friend but who loves the kids and supports me, rather than living a lonely life of working full time, getting a degree, living with relatives and on welfare with my kids in ps and afterschool care. There are no guarantees that she'll find another man to marry and support her any time soon if she leaves dh, so she'd have to work full time and give up being with the kids all week. Comparatively, maybe her situation isn't as miserable as it might sound. (Not saying it's all sunshine, but it's not necessarily misery.)

 

I think I'm there with you, Heather. I know more women who say they are miserable with their spouse, or in a loveless marriage, or just "in it for the kids, the money, whatever" than I do people who say nothing, or say they still cherish their spouse.

 

It breaks my heart.

[Wheres Toto]

Since I became a SAHM and got active in Mom's groups and homeschool groups, I've met more and more mothers who are in unhappy marriages. I know at least 3 that would leave in a minute if they could afford it (one has an husband who I consider abusive but she's disabled and can't work).

 

My situation was different. During my first marriage I was stuck working full time, putting my dd in school and daycare all the time. When I first left my financial situation pretty much stayed the same. But, it did lead to me meeting DH, getting remarried in a much happer situation and being able to stay home and homeschool my younger kids. Even my oldest is benefiting from me being home for her afterschool and not having to work all the time.

[Wheres Toto]

My experience and observation is the opposite.

 

I believe there is a myth of the superficial divorce. I have been divorced, I have been in divorce support groups, I have been around groups of divorced people of faith, I have sponsored a couple of dozen people in AA or Al Anon who have divorced. I have not met one person who divorced lightly, easily, superficially or as the easy way out. Not one. I have, however, seen dozens of people who don't share their marriage and divorce related agony and pain to a wide population of people.

 

I honestly find the "responsible for your own happiness" mentality is taken out of healthy context.

 

Equating a person's *divorce* with a "simple change of scenary" is trivializing a pain, frustration, and transition that for most people is life altering and profound.

 

Divorce isn't the problem. The bad marriages and the lasting effects of bad marriages is a much, much greater problem and determining factor of future happiness.

:iagree:

(we need an "I Agree" smiley without the smiling face since this isn't something to smile about.)