Does Singapore Math teach.....

[Tabrett]

....how to add and subtract traditionally with carrying? My dd is in SP 1a and I feel like all she is doing is math "puzzles". It is starting to get very frustrating for her. Does SP 2 teach traditional math computation?

[dirty ethel rackham]

Yes, it does. However, it does not call it carrying and borrowing. It calls it "regrouping." It does it using pictures so that the child understands the math behind it, not just an algorithm to follow. Perhaps she needs to use manipulatives to regroup in order to understand it. I found dollars, dimes and pennies to be a good way to reinforce the place value aspect.

[Beth in SW WA]

....how to add and subtract traditionally with carrying? My dd is in SP 1a and I feel like all she is doing is math "puzzles". It is starting to get very frustrating for her. Does SP 2 teach traditional math computation?

 

Are you using Singapore 1A alone? If so, I suggest you add MM blue addition 1, subtraction 1 & place value 1. (We do RS B also but it would be expensive and time-consuming for you to add that in.). MM blue is ideal with SM.

[Tabrett]

She uses an abacus, but she HATES using it or any other manipulative. Does SP show you how to cross out a number and carry the one to the next number in column style or is it all mental math regrouping? My dd is going to drowned if it is always mental math. I think all the strategies are more confusing than helpful for her.

[Beth in SW WA]

I understand your angst. You will need to show her your method of borrowing/carrying. Sal Khan shows all the methods here (including Singapore) in this

Let your dd watch this. My dd7 loves Sal. :)

[Dinsfamily]

....how to add and subtract traditionally with carrying? My dd is in SP 1a and I feel like all she is doing is math "puzzles". It is starting to get very frustrating for her. Does SP 2 teach traditional math computation?

 

Like the others said, it does. Learning all of that mental math really does pay off, though! We are in Singapore 2B and it is easy to see the value of all that mental math as we go through the wb, CWP and Zaccaro's PCM.

[Beth in SW WA]

Like the others said, it does. Learning all of that mental math really does pay off, though!

 

I hope to say the same thing in a year. :001_smile:

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Yes, it does. However, it does not call it carrying and borrowing. It calls it "regrouping." It does it using pictures so that the child understands the math behind it, not just an algorithm to follow. Perhaps she needs to use manipulatives to regroup in order to understand it. I found dollars, dimes and pennies to be a good way to reinforce the place value aspect.

Liping Ma explains why it shouldn't be called carrying and borrowing in his/her (I'm not sure which, LOL) book. I found that portion very interesting!! I knew it had been "renamed" but didn't fully grasp why. I think in China they called it something different (composing/decomposing) but it's the same idea.

[Tabrett]

I do want her to learn the mental math, but SP constantly changes what they are asking her to do that I feel like she is not truly learning anything. One day they are asking you to add then they are asking you to do something like 5+ _=8. I know it is not truly hard, but I would rather her understand 5+3=8 really well before asking the other question. I understand the logic behind the method, but with a VERY non-mathy dc it gets very frustrating.

Today she did some of the review pages and they had problems in the book we had never done. It was vertical columns with 3 numbers. There were not addition, subtraction or equall signs to tell you what to do. Just a string of 3 numbers. The first 2 colomns were filled the next several columns had one number missing. I had to stop and study the problem to see what she was to do. It was only adding and subtracting, but you were not told that. You were configure it out on your own! I had to stop to figure out what to do. I really don't see how a 7yr old could figure out what to do.

It really frustrated me. I have to sit with her and explain every single problem.

[twoxcell]

It does in SM 2a :001_smile:.

[Matryoshka]

She uses an abacus, but she HATES using it or any other manipulative. Does SP show you how to cross out a number and carry the one to the next number in column style or is it all mental math regrouping? My dd is going to drowned if it is always mental math. I think all the strategies are more confusing than helpful for her.

 

It teaches it just like that in 2a, so fear not. There is a reason for them doing it the other way first - it makes them really understand place value before giving them the shortcut. But all the standard algorithms are taught (and I still called it carrying/borrowing, even if the book didn't :tongue_smilie:).

 

Triangle flashcards can help with things like 5+_=8.

[Dinsfamily]

I do want her to learn the mental math, but SP constantly changes what they are asking her to do that I feel like she is not truly learning anything. One day they are asking you to add then they are asking you to do something like 5+ _=8. I know it is not truly hard, but I would rather her understand 5+3=8 really well before asking the other question. I understand the logic behind the method, but with a VERY non-mathy dc it gets very frustrating.

Today she did some of the review pages and they had problems in the book we had never done. It was vertical columns with 3 numbers. There were not addition, subtraction or equall signs to tell you what to do. Just a string of 3 numbers. The first 2 colomns were filled the next several columns had one number missing. I had to stop and study the problem to see what she was to do. It was only adding and subtracting, but you were not told that. You were configure it out on your own! I had to stop to figure out what to do. I really don't see how a 7yr old could figure out what to do.

It really frustrated me. I have to sit with her and explain every single problem.

 

I went back the 1A to see what you were talking about. From what you're describing, it sounds like you might benefit from taking a break and reviewing number bonds until your dd has them down solid. Number bonds will keep coming up as you progress and not mastering them will make 1B very difficult. In both examples, a thorough mastery of number bonds is the key. The student should be able to look at the problems and recall the number bonds to answer the question. In the case of the columns, the student is expected to see the pattern (which is why they have the first three filled in) and complete the rest.

[Cindyz]

:iagree: This is key at this stage of the curriculum.

[Tabrett]

So why don't they really drill number bonds?. Why would SP just go on expecting a dc to learn this with out drill. Knowing my dd, it would take months of drill for her to learn those. I have the math cd, but it is timed and doesn't give her enough time to figure the bond out. It just made her upset.

[Spy Car]

I went back the 1A to see what you were talking about. From what you're describing, it sounds like you might benefit from taking a break and reviewing number bonds until your dd has them down solid. Number bonds will keep coming up as you progress and not mastering them will make 1B very difficult. In both examples, a thorough mastery of number bonds is the key. The student should be able to look at the problems and recall the number bonds to answer the question. In the case of the columns, the student is expected to see the pattern (which is why they have the first three filled in) and complete the rest.

 

:iagree:

 

It is fundamental to the Singapore Math method to see and understand "wholes and parts." This is why they use "number bonds" and it leads to the mental math strategies and the bar diagram method of solving word problems.

 

I found Cuisenaire Rod work a great introduction to whole-parts work like 5+[ ]=8. It is a step that must be well understood as it is fundamental to all the further work in Singapore math.

 

Bill

[dirty ethel rackham]

Singapore was never intended to be stand alone in that respect. Drill of math facts/number bonds is assumed to be done outside of the program. It really is an excellent program in teaching the why's of math. We used it through NEM 2 (but then switched to AoPS for the rest of high school math.) The proof is in the pudding. My kids are not phased by problems they have not seen before. Both boys flew through Chemistry. My oldest did very well in Physics, even though they used math he had not come across yet in his studies. Plus, his SAT scores in math are very good, despite being a somewhat lazy student.

[Matryoshka]

So why don't they really drill number bonds?. Why would SP just go on expecting a dc to learn this with out drill. Knowing my dd, it would take months of drill for her to learn those. I have the math cd, but it is timed and doesn't give her enough time to figure the bond out. It just made her upset.

 

Triangle flash cards. :) I printed mine free off of donnayoung.org - printed them on cardstock, laminated and cut out.

[Dmmetler]

As far as the "Why don't they drill". They do. Just not in the book. When I did SM teacher training, one of the things stated again and again is that the book is simply the outline, and that it is assumed that you will add more practice, more drill, until the kids know the concept, and that, conversely, you will add higher level material for the students who do. This is why SM has the regular text/workbook, the EP, and the IP.

 

And if you look at the sheer numbers of math resource books and websites, you see that this really isn't unusual. It's not expected that the book alone is going to provide enough repetition and drill for all students in most programs.

[EKS]

Sinjgapore math teaches all of the traditional algorithms. What they're doing in level 1 is they're reinforcing the concept of place value, which is important so that kids aren't just adding up columns.

 

FWIW, Singapore level 1 is the weakest level. We moved to RightStart B and then came back into Singapore at level 2. The problem with level 1 is that there is a disconnect between the level of instruction and the level of the problems.

[Dinsfamily]

So why don't they really drill number bonds?. Why would SP just go on expecting a dc to learn this with out drill. Knowing my dd, it would take months of drill for her to learn those. I have the math cd, but it is timed and doesn't give her enough time to figure the bond out. It just made her upset.

 

Like pp have said, they expect you to do the extra work as needed. One thing I like about Singapore is that you learn and then memorize number bonds up to 10 (as in 9+1=10) and then you're done for addition and subtraction. After that they learn strategies to use those number bonds to find larger sums and differences. This method works well for my ds since memorization isn't his strong suit. We didn't actually drill the early number bonds, just practiced using them and demonstrating them with C Rods until they were mastered. We've had to add more drill/practice to get multiplication tables down (Horizons abs provide most of this for me). I started using the HIG when we got to 2A which spells out what needs to be mastered when.

[Spy Car]

As far as the "Why don't they drill". They do. Just not in the book. When I did SM teacher training, one of the things stated again and again is that the book is simply the outline, and that it is assumed that you will add more practice, more drill, until the kids know the concept, and that, conversely, you will add higher level material for the students who do. This is why SM has the regular text/workbook, the EP, and the IP.

 

 

That is also why there are Home Instructors Guides. The HIGs are part of the program, and it is "in the book."

 

Bill

[Dana]

I also find that the Standards edition has significantly more review and practice than the Primary Math version. We switched to Standards in 2 and now that we're in 3, I'm actually skipping some of the review problems in the text rather than supplementing with additional workbooks.

[stripe]

Liping Ma explains why it shouldn't be called carrying and borrowing in his/her (I'm not sure which, LOL) book.

Just for the record Liping Ma is a woman.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Just for the record Liping Ma is a woman.

Thanks:001_smile: I was thinking female but wasn't sure if I was thinking that because her last name is Ma (which reminded me of mother):lol:

[Whereneverever]

That is also why there are Home Instructors Guides. The HIGs are part of the program, and it is "in the book."

 

Bill

Yes, this! The HIGs tell you not to move on at points until your DC knows the information, has mental math or drill sheets, and cards to use with lessons. Unless you are familiar with the thought process behind the math- the whys and hows- you are really missing out by not using the HIGS.

[Halcyon]

They teach things in a way that may seem, initially, "harder" to teach, and harder to grasp. It's not the way most of us were taught. We were taught that elementary math is....elementary.;) By gaining a thorough grasp of mental math in these early years, and by working hard, your DD will see so many benefits down the road. My son just finished 3A and I am really impressed with how well SM has taught him not only mental math, but different ways to think about problems.

 

ETA: just noticed you're not using the HIGs. The HIG is essential, IMO, especially if you feel your student is struggling.

[KrissiK]

We're just finishing up 1B with my 2nd grader and my head is spinning. He's doing really well with the mental math, but I'm already struggling to teach it. I think this is the best math program for him. He is really thriving on it, but I do think I need to drill him more, too. I'm glad to hear the Standard edition has a little more practice. I'll get that when I order 2a.

[Spy Car]

We're just finishing up 1B with my 2nd grader and my head is spinning. He's doing really well with the mental math, but I'm already struggling to teach it. I think this is the best math program for him. He is really thriving on it, but I do think I need to drill him more, too. I'm glad to hear the Standard edition has a little more practice. I'll get that when I order 2a.

 

Better HIGs too.

 

Bill