Solidarity with the unemployed

[jld]

Can we think of ways we could show our support to our friends here and elsewhere in their time of unemployment? I know people have mentioned having people over for dinner, but I'm wondering if there are other ways, too. I know nobody has much money right now, and I'd like to avoid making more financial demands on anyone.

 

What do you think of this as an idea: how about a movement to simplify Christmas? For example, making a commitment to just buy one gift for each person in the family, or even go without gifts, in solidarity with families who won't be having gifts this year. I know a lot of people want to go out and buy gifts for a family, and I see their point, but just dispensing with the gift-buying altogether would save everybody money, and just sort of lower stress and expectations. Would this be too radical? Is it something that is probably going to happen anyway over the next few years if the economy doesn't improve?

 

I'm afraid a lot of unemployed families are feeling pretty alone right now. I'm just wondering about non-financial ways of lightening their load.

[Jane in NC]

Bill McKibben echoes your sentiment in his little book Hundred Dollar Holiday: the Case for a More Joyful Christmas. I believe that this book is used in workshops at some churches. Perhaps that is a start?

 

Here is an essay he wrote on the subject. One line in the essay resonates with me:

Christmas had become something to endure at least as much as it had become something to enjoy.

 

Granted, my efforts to simplify Christmas within my family (sister especially) have been thwarted. But her kids have heard my message and appreciate a small thoughtful gift (often homemade) over the big shabang. In fact, my niece has donated to a food pantry in our honor for Christmas, a gift I loved.

 

But don't buy McKibben's book! Borrow it from your library.

[jld]

Wow, that is great. I really enjoyed reading that. Thanks for sharing, Jane.

 

I just don't want the unemployed to feel alone, or anyone really.

 

And I sympathize with you about your sister. Maybe people have to be ready to let go of some materialism before they can do it joyfully.

 

Thanks again for the link!:)

[2cents]

I like the idea of parring down but looking at the big picture, I think that spending helps the economy and in turn creates jobs and supports industry. I think that keeping expenditures more private out of respect for those who are struggling is a great idea. :)

[plansrme]

I don't get it. I don't get why all of us acting like we are unemployed would do anyone any good, unemployed or otherwise.

 

By all means, have a simpler Christmas if it would bring more joy to you and your family. But to just up and decide not to spend money you have and want to spend--I don't see how that helps anyone who is employed.

 

Here's how I am doing my part for the unemployed: I am keeping more people from being added to their ranks by spending ridiculous amounts of money right here in my home town. I am employing coaches for my kids, waiters in restaurants, UPS drivers, yard and housekeeping crews, dance teachers, tutors, homeschool science centers, plumbers and cabinet makers and those nice ladies in the shoe store where I bought Uggs.

 

So sure, pull back if you want to. I am doing just the opposite.

 

Terri

[jld]

You know, Terri, that's a good point, too. Spending money does help the economy. There are many ways to care about people.

[rafiki]

.

[Donna A.]

I like the idea of parring down but looking at the big picture, I think that spending helps the economy and in turn creates jobs and supports industry.

 

Well, that theory is supposed to work, isn't it? But considering that many employers are just making their *current* employees work longer and harder hours rather than hiring more employees, OR hiring employees at a living wage or with benefits that they can afford, I don't think this concept works in reality anymore. That's exactly what my hair lady is having to do (limit the # of people she has on payroll). Why? Because business is down? Nope! People still get their hair done, even though many are having to spread the timing of their appointments. No, the reason is because of the new health care laws.

 

Maybe the concept of "spend more, help the economy, create jobs" works here and there with certain types of business, but not as a whole. And obviously the spending of those who CAN isn't helping those who CAN'T very much, seeing as how Unemployment is still high and the real estate market is still in the tank.

 

Here's an idea... what if those who CAN spent more *directly helping* those who can't? Food, clothing, shelter costs, vehicle repairs, home repairs, Christmas gifts for their children, Christmas gifts for the elderly and sick.....

[StephanieZ]

I'd think the best thing you can do is to help them network. Invite them to any/all social/networking things you can. Host a dinner party or other party & invite your unemployed friend(s) along with several other folks who might know someone who knows someone. If you know anyone who is in a hiring position, then you can offer to pass along your unemployed friend(s) resume. Or, just exchange contact info (with mutual permission) between the person who might be hiring and the unemployed person so your unemployed friend can solicit an 'informational interview' to discuss possibilities/network.

 

Moving towards reducing expense barriers for holidays, gatherings, parties, etc is also a great idea.

 

If the family of the unemployed person has child care issues, then offerring to take the kids for part of a day here or there would be helpful, just so the parents can get a night out for themselves, or a day job-hunting without the stresses, etc.

[StephanieZ]

Oh, and spending LOCALLY is always a great idea, especially now.

[jld]

 

Moving towards reducing expense barriers for holidays, gatherings, parties, etc is also a great idea.

 

 

 

I tried to suggest this to extended family earlier this year, and was amazed by how offended some were. We literally had family who couldn't come to a gathering because of the expense, but that didn't bother the others. A friend of mine said that for some people, if they aren't struggling, it's like they don't see others that are.

[lionfamily1999]

If you know someone that is in a bad way and you have the money, an early present of gift cards (for Christmas shopping) would be wonderful. Gift cards for the local grocery store (Christmas dinner is not cheap) would also be great.

 

Soup kitchens and Christmas outreaches are great places to show solidarity with the unemployed. Going there and donating gifts or serving food is an excellent way to show you care.

 

I don't get it. I don't get why all of us acting like we are unemployed would do anyone any good, unemployed or otherwise.

 

By all means, have a simpler Christmas if it would bring more joy to you and your family. But to just up and decide not to spend money you have and want to spend--I don't see how that helps anyone who is employed.

 

Here's how I am doing my part for the unemployed: I am keeping more people from being added to their ranks by spending ridiculous amounts of money right here in my home town. I am employing coaches for my kids, waiters in restaurants, UPS drivers, yard and housekeeping crews, dance teachers, tutors, homeschool science centers, plumbers and cabinet makers and those nice ladies in the shoe store where I bought Uggs.

 

So sure, pull back if you want to. I am doing just the opposite.

 

Terri

:grouphug: We're not unemployed, but we are in a tight spot. Things like this (what can we do to better understand) always make me feel like someone's science project. Thank you for being you.

[Tutor]

Things we have done or have been done for us:

 

1. Connect the unemployed with friends you know are hiring.

 

2. Offer free babysitting for interviews and/ or work hours.

 

3. Prepare double of whatever you are making for supper and offer to bring supper over once a week.

 

4. Go in with friends on grocery store, auto repair, gasoline, or department store gift cards to give as holiday gifts to unemployed friends. (One of the best gifts we ever received when dh was unemployed a few years ago was a laundry basket full of Thanksgiving dinner fixings along with $100 in grocery gift cards to buy the turkey and fresh veggies for supper. We made that gift card and that basket of food last a looong time.)

 

5. Offer to help someone with their resume or to post on a job-finder site.

 

6. Spread the word that your friend is looking for a job.

 

7. Hire them or their children or spouse for jobs you need done. (We've been very appreciative of people willing to help us in this way.)

 

8. Pay their utility bills. You can send a check to the utility company with the name and address of the person you want to pay for.

 

9. Set up carpooling to help people reduce transportation costs (especially helpful when someone is working a part-time or seasonal job).

 

10. Offer to change the oil and filters in their car and do any other basic car maintenance you are qualified to do.

 

11. Keep an eye out for clothing in their children's sizes that you can pass on.

 

12. Find a low-rent housing possibility for them. (We had someone we had never met before buy a house solely so we could rent it to him at a reduced rate. He sold it as soon as we moved out.)

 

13. Pay for any large repairs or medical bills they may have. (Another person we barely knew paid to put a new engine in our truck.)

 

14. Find local doctors, dentists, lawyers, financial advisers, etc who would be willing to offer their services for free or barter.

[Murphy101]

I tried to suggest this to extended family earlier this year, and was amazed by how offended some were. We literally had family who couldn't come to a gathering because of the expense, but that didn't bother the others. A friend of mine said that for some people, if they aren't struggling, it's like they don't see others that are.

 

:iagree: my in laws do that and get mad at us. According to them if we can't afford it, then me and the kids should just stay home and let their son attend. They simply can't comprehend that one, that still might not work for us and two, it add additional insult.:confused::glare:

 

 

ETA: it's not even about unemployment. Lots of people on lower incomes have the same problems.

 

I don't think anyone need change what they are doing for us.

Just don't get offended if it can't be monetarily reciprocated or attended.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Martha

[Audrey]

I tried to suggest this to extended family earlier this year, and was amazed by how offended some were. We literally had family who couldn't come to a gathering because of the expense, but that didn't bother the others. A friend of mine said that for some people, if they aren't struggling, it's like they don't see others that are.

 

 

I think that touches on another issue: posting about expenditures. I know that when we were fighting for every penny, reading post after post about "what expensive thing should I get for xyz" and "look what I just bought/got" was very depressing. It was such an in-your-face reminder of my daily struggle. The inundation of it around xmas time just made me feel... very lonely, indeed.

 

I think perhaps if we all made a concerted effort to keep some of the hoopla over presents off of the board, it would go a long way toward lessening the stress many people are feeling about the holidays approaching and about their day-to-day struggles with finances. It's fine to enjoy what you have/have received, but I don't think many of us would do that IRL when in the company of many people whom you know are struggling financially.

 

So... my suggestion is to hold back on the posts about getting/buying stuff.

[jld]

That's really sensitive, Audrey. Thanks.

 

You know, I'm feeling a little conflicted here. On the one hand, it seems like people might appreciate a little solidarity, and on the other hand, some people might just want to be left alone. I guess it's hard to know exactly what people might find helpful.

 

Sometimes it seems the same way on the posts. People might take offense, or they might find it a nice escape. It's hard to know what it acceptable to write sometimes.

[cdrumm4448]

Here's an idea... what if those who CAN spent more *directly helping* those who can't? Food, clothing, shelter costs, vehicle repairs, home repairs, Christmas gifts for their children, Christmas gifts for the elderly and sick.....

 

I love that idea. I wish everyone thought that way. If we helped enough people ourselves, the government wouldn't have to. That is a good goal.

[Audrey]

That's really sensitive, Audrey. Thanks.

 

You know, I'm feeling a little conflicted here. On the one hand, it seems like people might appreciate a little solidarity, and on the other hand, some people might just want to be left alone. I guess it's hard to know exactly what people might find helpful.

 

Sometimes it seems the same way on the posts. People might take offense, or they might find it a nice escape. It's hard to know what it acceptable to write sometimes.

 

 

Yes, I suppose it is a fine line, and people will react differently. Personally, I won't be posting about getting or buying stuff. I'm just going based on how I felt when dh and I were starting out and literally counted every penny and made every penny count.

 

We weren't unemployed, but making so very little in the beginning. It was a tough time. I don't take our improved situation for granted. Not for one minute. I know that at any time it could turn around again. I think that is true for everyone. Anyone could be in a very tough financial position, through absolutely no fault of their own. We're all just trying to do our best. We're all just trying to keep on keeping on.

[lionfamily1999]

That's really sensitive, Audrey. Thanks.

 

You know, I'm feeling a little conflicted here. On the one hand, it seems like people might appreciate a little solidarity, and on the other hand, some people might just want to be left alone. I guess it's hard to know exactly what people might find helpful.

 

Sometimes it seems the same way on the posts. People might take offense, or they might find it a nice escape. It's hard to know what it acceptable to write sometimes.

That's because we are all different. I know there are plenty of people that really appreciate it when someone tries to live their life (or walk in their shoes) to reach a better understanding. For me, it seems like it lowers the person whose life is imitated to the level of something at the zoo.

 

:grouphug:

 

You can't please everyone. Do what you feel led to do and don't let the fuddy duddies (like myself) get you down :D

[Donna A.]

Here's one way to help: If/when you go to visit others who are unemployed or just struggling, and you're not, PLEASE contribute to any expenses incurred as a result of your visit! Food, utilities (if it's a long stay), gas money when you leave the house to go somewhere the cost of whatever it is you're doing for entertainment, whether it be the Nutcracker Ballet or a video rental....

 

If we helped enough people ourselves, the government wouldn't have to.

EXACTLY.

 

and on the other hand, some people might just want to be left alone.

Honestly, I think if people "seem" like they want to be left alone (or even if they SAY they do), it's probably because they feel so embarrassed about their situation and don't want to talk about it. They may also not know WHAT to tell you to help with. While my dh was unemployed, I had a friend who asked me several times how they could help, but I couldn't come up with an answer because I know things are tight for them, too. But she kept asking, so I finally had to come up with something. She started shopping for extras for us when she found good deals, both for food and toiletries and cleaning supplies. Let me tell ya, it was VERY helpful getting a package of toilet paper just when we needed it! :lol:

 

Remember that even if someone happens to be on food stamps, they still need toiletries, cleaning supplies, gasoline for their vehicle(s) (maybe a gift card from QuickTrip or Walmart?), and many other things needed just to *live* that food stamps won't cover.

 

You can sometimes give these things anonymously, too. ;) We once had a very generous money order sent to us in the mail ~ right before Christmas ~ with no return address, no name, nothing. HUGE blessing it was! :001_smile:

[jld]

You can't please everyone. Do what you feel led to do and don't let the fuddy duddies (like myself) get you down :D

 

LOL, and good advice!:)

[lionfamily1999]

LOL, and good advice!:)

I get bitter at times. I am sorry I took it out on you. Your kind heart and good intentions did not deserve that.

 

:grouphug:

 

Now, go make the world a better place :D

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Well, that theory is supposed to work, isn't it? But considering that many employers are just making their *current* employees work longer and harder hours rather than hiring more employees, OR hiring employees at a living wage or with benefits that they can afford, I don't think this concept works in reality anymore. That's exactly what my hair lady is having to do (limit the # of people she has on payroll). Why? Because business is down? Nope! People still get their hair done, even though many are having to spread the timing of their appointments. No, the reason is because of the new health care laws.

 

 

 

 

 

IMHO your hairdresser should check out how health care reform applies to small businesses. There are tax credits for small businesses and other incentives with the new law. Plus they will not have to worry about being penalized for having employees with poor health as they have been in the past. Plus they will have access to health insurance exchanges which will give them the same sort of buying power as big business or congress.

 

http://www.healthcare.gov/foryou/small/top5/index.html

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

In regards to simplifying Christmas and helping others I am all for it. I definitely think Christmas is out of control in our society in general. It should be about a time for family and love and not presents IMHO:)

[jld]

Yes, I suppose it is a fine line, and people will react differently. Personally, I won't be posting about getting or buying stuff. I'm just going based on how I felt when dh and I were starting out and literally counted every penny and made every penny count.

 

We weren't unemployed, but making so very little in the beginning. It was a tough time. I don't take our improved situation for granted. Not for one minute. I know that at any time it could turn around again. I think that is true for everyone. Anyone could be in a very tough financial position, through absolutely no fault of their own. We're all just trying to do our best. We're all just trying to keep on keeping on.

 

I think what's hardest is when people know that no matter what they do, things are never really going to get better.

 

You bought a farm, right? And have it all paid for now? So even though it was hard in the beginning, it has paid off and you have a great future in front of you. Everybody is happy for you, and knows you have worked hard and took the risk and everything.

 

But some people are just never going to be able to do that. (And I'm not saying you think they are; I know you're really smart and sensitive) Not everyone has the strength of character or intelligence or luck or whatever is involved to be able to do that.

 

And then, if they find themselves unemployed, at this time of historic economic circumstances, and people around them are saying it's their own fault, or why didn't they save, or whatever, I think they can end up feeling really alone, and quite frankly, judged.

 

I think the truth of the matter is that people who are successful are not just successful because they "did all the right things", but because they were also able to do the right things. If they saw things that way, they could say, for example, "Gosh, we did do well, but we were really lucky we were able to take those good decisions, and the market remained stable, and our health stayed good, etc." They could express gratitude without making it sound like they deserve it.

 

When I read some of the posts on here from people going through unemployment, I am amazed at the difficulties they face every single day, without much ground for hope, at least in the short term, and with the judgment of people undoubtedly in their faces, too. I bet it is so hard to get up every day and keep trying to keep trying. I guess what I mean by solidarity is that I want people to know that some of us realize these things, and know that we could be next, and that we care. I wish there were some kind of feeling that we were all in this together, and not just every man for himself. But I think that's the American way, if not the human way, and so all I can really do is try to offer a little empathy and some warmth.

[jld]

I get bitter at times. I am sorry I took it out on you. Your kind heart and good intentions did not deserve that.

 

:grouphug:

 

Now, go make the world a better place :D

 

Hey, don't make me cry here, lf! lol

 

Bitterness is totally understandable. And I'm really mad that anyone is in this spot. Nobody deserved it. And to be honest, I'm really mad at the people who caused it and the people that aren't willing to fix it.

Edited November 8, 2010 by jld

[Donna A.]

IMHO your hairdresser should check out how health care reform applies to small businesses.

 

Oh, she has. She has an accounting background. ;)

[TXMomof4]

You can sometimes give these things anonymously, too. ;) We once had a very generous money order sent to us in the mail ~ right before Christmas ~ with no return address, no name, nothing. HUGE blessing it was! :001_smile:

 

To me this is the best way to help. There's no worry about embarassing someone, insulting someone - no need for them to worry about feeling grateful or beholden to someone.

 

The first time dh was deployed I received a $500 gift card to Target - anonymously. We were very fortunate - we weren't hurting financially at the time so I was able to use that money to buy my sister everything she needed for an unexpected baby - anonymously. I ordered everything online for her and she still has no idea it came from me. It was the best gift I'd ever received and I have no idea who sent me the money. I hope they received as much joy as I did from being able to help someone without them knowing it.

[Audrey]

I think what's hardest is when people know that no matter what they do, things are never really going to get better.

 

You bought a farm, right? And have it all paid for now? So even though it was hard in the beginning, it has paid off and you have a great future in front of you. Everybody is happy for you, and knows you have worked hard and took the risk and everything.

 

But some people are just never going to be able to do that. (And I'm not saying you think they are; I know you're really smart and sensitive) Not everyone has the strength of character or intelligence or luck or whatever is involved to be able to do that.

 

And then, if they find themselves unemployed, at this time of historic economic circumstances, and people around them are saying it's their own fault, or why didn't they save, or whatever, I think they can end up feeling really alone, and quite frankly, judged.

 

I think the truth of the matter is that people who are successful are not just successful because they "did all the right things", but because they were also able to do the right things. If they saw things that way, they could say, for example, "Gosh, we did do well, but we were really lucky we were able to take those good decisions, and the market remained stable, and our health stayed good, etc." They could express gratitude without making it sound like they deserve it.

 

When I read some of the posts on here from people going through unemployment, I am amazed at the difficulties they face every single day, without much ground for hope, at least in the short term, and with the judgment of people undoubtedly in their faces, too. I bet it is so hard to get up every day and keep trying to keep trying. I guess what I mean by solidarity is that I want people to know that some of us realize these things, and know that we could be next, and that we care. I wish there were some kind of feeling that we were all in this together, and not just every man for himself. But I think that's the American way, if not the human way, and so all I can really do is try to offer a little empathy and some warmth.

 

 

I know we're lucky. The opportunity to buy the farm meant a lot of risk and a lot of sacrifice, but I know that we were lucky just to have the opportunity, period.

 

I do know what it's like to feel hopeless. There was a short period in my life before dh that I was homeless. It only lasted for 6 months, but it felt like forever, and when it was happening, I thought it was truly the end of the line for me. I was lucky then, too. I know that and I don't forget it.

 

I can't give in to hopelessness. I don't want to be one of those people who enables hopelessness either.

 

I don't know how to make other people realize that many people do care and that we ARE all in this life together, whether we want to admit it or not, except to try to model it myself. I think, in the end, that's all you can do. You can't change anyone else, but you can change yourself. You, yourself, can be a model of change and compassion. I know that sounds like an insignificant thing, but I remember someone who helped me when I need it. They saved my life in many ways a hundred times over. It was really just a small thing they did, but it meant everything to me at the time. Even small things make a difference. I have to keep believing that. I think THAT'S human.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Audrey

[jld]

I didn't mean that post for you, Audrey. I just kind of meant it in general. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was trying to give some kind of moral lesson. You don't need any lessons of any kind from me. :)

 

I'm so glad someone was there for you. :grouphug: I hope someone is there for everyone struggling right now.

 

For there to be hope, there need to be some reasonable, realistic underpinnings. And I hope there are, but I think that sometimes it can seem like there aren't. It would be helpful for people to understand why we are where we are and what can reasonably be done about it, but that takes time and an awful lot of explaining and a willingness to listen.

 

I just think that sometimes people take an awful lot of credit (once again, I'm not talking about you, at all) for things that actually involved a lot of luck, like the luck of being born into one of the most fortunate places on earth, in good health, with natural intelligence, into relatively helpful families. I know that people need to take responsibility for developing their talents, but it does seem like that is easier to do under the right conditions.

[regentrude]

but just dispensing with the gift-buying altogether would save everybody money, and just sort of lower stress and expectations. .

 

 

and would cause further increase in unemployment because reduced consumer spending will mean that companies need fewer people to produce what little people are buying.

It won't help the economy one little bit.

 

(Not that I'm not for simplifying - but for different reasons)

[FO4UR]

I think that touches on another issue: posting about expenditures. I know that when we were fighting for every penny, reading post after post about "what expensive thing should I get for xyz" and "look what I just bought/got" was very depressing. It was such an in-your-face reminder of my daily struggle. The inundation of it around xmas time just made me feel... very lonely, indeed.

 

I think perhaps if we all made a concerted effort to keep some of the hoopla over presents off of the board, it would go a long way toward lessening the stress many people are feeling about the holidays approaching and about their day-to-day struggles with finances. It's fine to enjoy what you have/have received, but I don't think many of us would do that IRL when in the company of many people whom you know are struggling financially.

 

So... my suggestion is to hold back on the posts about getting/buying stuff.

 

You are spot on. We are in that tough spot right now...I am *working* to keep my chin up. I just avoid threads that I don't think I can do today.

 

 

I know we're lucky. The opportunity to buy the farm meant a lot of risk and a lot of sacrifice, but I know that we were lucky just to have the opportunity, period.

 

I do know what it's like to feel hopeless. There was a short period in my life before dh that I was homeless. It only lasted for 6 months, but it felt like forever, and when it was happening, I thought it was truly the end of the line for me. I was lucky then, too. I know that and I don't forget it.

 

I can't give in to hopelessness. I don't want to be one of those people who enables hopelessness either.

 

I don't know how to make other people realize that many people do care and that we ARE all in this life together, whether we want to admit it or not, except to try to model it myself. I think, in the end, that's all you can do. You can't change anyone else, but you can change yourself. You, yourself, can be a model of change and compassion. I know that sounds like an insignificant thing, but I remember someone who helped me when I need it. They saved my life in many ways a hundred times over. It was really just a small thing they did, but it meant everything to me at the time. Even small things make a difference. I have to keep believing that. I think THAT'S human.

 

One of the most encouraging things is hearing from people who have been to the rock bottom and have survived, made it through, and are thriving. Thank you for your posts in this thread.:001_smile:

[Gratia271]

I just think that sometimes people take an awful lot of credit (once again, I'm not talking about you, at all) for things that actually involved a lot of luck, like the luck of being born into one of the most fortunate places on earth, in good health, with natural intelligence, into relatively helpful families. I know that people need to take responsibility for developing their talents, but it does seem like that is easier to do under the right conditions.

 

:iagree:

 

Though I don't often post on these kinds of threads (unemployment, people losing homes, etc), I read them and detect much arrogance from people who haven't btdt. Due to many circumstances over which I exerted some influence (by no means all), my family has not as of yet walked these difficult paths. As you said in an earlier post, it can happen to anyone. I know many responsible people who made good choices, yet bad things happened.

 

Instead of bragging about how we can afford to "help" others by spending inordinate amounts of money on luxuries for people who need nothing, we can find people around us who are in need and provide for them anonymously. Like many American children, mine need nothing. I would rather involve them in purchasing things for people in need. Though my children will ultimately make their own choices, I do everything in my power to encourage them to be givers. The world is full of takers; I don't need to add three more to their ranks.

[FO4UR]

and would cause further increase in unemployment because reduced consumer spending will mean that companies need fewer people to produce what little people are buying.

It won't help the economy one little bit.

 

(Not that I'm not for simplifying - but for different reasons)

 

:iagree: The only reason we are not going to be homeless next month is b/c dh got on as seasonal help in expectation of people buying lots of stuff for Christmas. He's a minister and had to leave a job quite unexpectedly (no fault of his own), and it's a monthS long process to get into another ministry position. Meanwhile, we have to pay rent and eat...our savings has been dwindling, and the story sounds familiar from there, I'm sure.

 

I don't enjoy reading threads about people spending spending spending (b/c I'm prone to envy...I'll admit it), but by all means keep spending if you can!

[plansrme]

Instead of bragging about how we can afford to "help" others by spending inordinate amounts of money on luxuries for people who need nothing, we can find people around us who are in need and provide for them anonymously. Like many American children, mine need nothing. I would rather involve them in purchasing things for people in need. Though my children will ultimately make their own choices, I do everything in my power to encourage them to be givers. The world is full of takers; I don't need to add three more to their ranks.

 

Why is a handout better than a job? A job made possible by people in your community, or anywhere for that matter, supporting your business or your employer's business? Show me an unemployed parent who would rather have a $500 gift card in his mailbox than a job.

 

Random acts of personal charity are lovely and make the giver feel all warm and cozy, but they aren't going to solve the long-term problem. Jobs will.

 

And for the record, I thoroughly resent the implication that not scaling back on Christmas means I and my children are "takers." You have no basis for making that assertion.

 

Terri

[lionfamily1999]

Hey, don't make me cry here, lf! lol

 

Bitterness is totally understandable. And I'm really mad that anyone is in this spot. Nobody deserved it. And to be honest, I'm really mad at the people who caused it and the people that aren't willing to fix it.

:grouphug: Dh is a mechanic. No one can afford to get their cars worked on, no work means very little pay. As long as people can't afford that we'll be on hard times.

 

No worries though! I'm only bitter in small fast spurts :lol:

[Audrey]

:grouphug: Dh is a mechanic. No one can afford to get their cars worked on, no work means very little pay. As long as people can't afford that we'll be on hard times.

 

No worries though! I'm only bitter in small fast spurts :lol:

 

 

Julie, it may be just a bubble or just your area. My bil is a mechanic with his own small shop on his farm. He's been busier than ever fixing cars (he fixes farm equipment, too) because people are holding on to older cars longer and paying for their inevitable upkeep instead of buying a newer car.

 

Hang in there and maybe more in your area will start doing the same thing. Most people do need their transportation. Better to pay to fix than pay to replace.

[Audrey]

Why is a handout better than a job? A job made possible by people in your community, or anywhere for that matter, supporting your business or your employer's business? Show me an unemployed parent who would rather have a $500 gift card in his mailbox than a job.

 

Random acts of personal charity are lovely and make the giver feel all warm and cozy, but they aren't going to solve the long-term problem. Jobs will.

 

And for the record, I thoroughly resent the implication that not scaling back on Christmas means I and my children are "takers." You have no basis for making that assertion.

 

Terri

 

 

:confused: I didn't read anywhere in her post that she even implied that a handout was better than a job. I also don't think she was equating "takers" with people who aren't scaling back at Xmas.

[lionfamily1999]

Julie, it may be just a bubble or just your area. My bil is a mechanic with his own small shop on his farm. He's been busier than ever fixing cars (he fixes farm equipment, too) because people are holding on to older cars longer and paying for their inevitable upkeep instead of buying a newer car.

 

Hang in there and maybe more in your area will start doing the same thing. Most people do need their transportation. Better to pay to fix than pay to replace.

We really thought the economy tanking would be GOOD for business. Less people just trading in their cars, but we didn't take military cuts into consideration. The garage dh works at is just outside a local base and they have been cutting civilian contracts. We're happy he still has a job to go to (and that his boss has implemented a base pay).

 

You know what drives us nuts? The booms are always AFTER we needed the money :lol: There will be a boost soon, people prepping for the long driving of Thanksgiving, but then it will die off as people devote their income to Christmas presents.

 

We're used to things being tight, this is just tighter than it's been in a long time. Thank you for your kind words Audrey.

[Audrey]

We really thought the economy tanking would be GOOD for business. Less people just trading in their cars, but we didn't take military cuts into consideration. The garage dh works at is just outside a local base and they have been cutting civilian contracts. We're happy he still has a job to go to (and that his boss has implemented a base pay).

 

You know what drives us nuts? The booms are always AFTER we needed the money :lol: There will be a boost soon, people prepping for the long driving of Thanksgiving, but then it will die off as people devote their income to Christmas presents.

 

We're used to things being tight, this is just tighter than it's been in a long time. Thank you for your kind words Audrey.

 

 

:grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

I'd think the best thing you can do is to help them network. Invite them to any/all social/networking things you can. Host a dinner party or other party & invite your unemployed friend(s) along with several other folks who might know someone who knows someone. If you know anyone who is in a hiring position, then you can offer to pass along your unemployed friend(s) resume. Or, just exchange contact info (with mutual permission) between the person who might be hiring and the unemployed person so your unemployed friend can solicit an 'informational interview' to discuss possibilities/network.

 

Ooohhhh yeah. That is the best thing you can do. That's how people get jobs. The further we go along this journey, the more true we are finding this.

 

Unemployed doesn't always mean destitute. I have a small New Year charity project and I can still afford it, even though we're unemployed again. What we need is a someone who knows someone. Dh now has 7 months of industry experience, which is better than nothing, but to employers, 7 months seems to be closer to none than some.

 

Rosie

[jld]

I wonder if the benefits in Australia are more generous than in America. I don't think unemployed means destitute in America, either, at least not at first. But some people are going on 2 years or more of unemployment, and then I imagine things can get pretty tight . . .

[Rosie_0801]

I wonder if the benefits in Australia are more generous than in America.

 

I don't know much about America's system of benefits, but we don't live any less comfortably on benefits than we do when dh is employed. That's not because the benefits are great pay, that's because he's been on wages that aren't significantly better than the benefits, we live very boring lives and haven't any debt. If our kids were older and we had a mortgage, we'd be a lot less comfortable. Our luck will turn eventually but for now, I'm glad we are debt free. Well, we have student loans, but we only repay them when we are earning over a certain amount. I think that's about 41 grand, and dh was earning 45 until recently.

 

Rosie

[plansrme]

:confused: I didn't read anywhere in her post that she even implied that a handout was better than a job.

 

Sure she did: "Instead of bragging about how we can afford to "help" others by spending inordinate amounts of money on luxuries for people who need nothing, we can find people around us who are in need and provide for them anonymously."

 

I don't know why my point is at all controversial. It is obvious that every time someone scales back--postpones a car tune-up or roof replacement, pulls a kid out of an extra-curricular activity, skips the Nutcracker--someone else's livelihood suffers. If we do that en masse, lots of livelihoods suffer.

 

I am not at all opposed to anonymous gifts to families in crisis, just trying to point out how cutting back when we do not have to exacerbates the problem we are trying to help.

 

Terri

[Renee in NC]

I don't know much about America's system of benefits, but we don't live any less comfortably on benefits than we do when dh is employed. That's not because the benefits are great pay, that's because he's been on wages that aren't significantly better than the benefits, we live very boring lives and haven't any debt. If our kids were older and we had a mortgage, we'd be a lot less comfortable. Our luck will turn eventually but for now, I'm glad we are debt free. Well, we have student loans, but we only repay them when we are earning over a certain amount. I think that's about 41 grand, and dh was earning 45 until recently.

 

Rosie

 

When we were unemployed in 2006, dh received $382 a week in benefits. In 2009, he received $225. I know the *maximum* amount you an receive in FL is $245, which means lots of people competing for even low wage jobs.

[Renee in NC]

Sure she did: "Instead of bragging about how we can afford to "help" others by spending inordinate amounts of money on luxuries for people who need nothing, we can find people around us who are in need and provide for them anonymously."

 

I don't know why my point is at all controversial. It is obvious that every time someone scales back--postpones a car tune-up or roof replacement, pulls a kid out of an extra-curricular activity, skips the Nutcracker--someone else's livelihood suffers. If we do that en masse, lots of livelihoods suffer.

 

I am not at all opposed to anonymous gifts to families in crisis, just trying to point out how cutting back when we do not have to exacerbates the problem we are trying to help.

 

Terri

 

I don't know what she intended, but buying Christmas presents and the things you list above are very different. The extracurricular, the Nutcracker, the car repair or roof - those things support the local economy.

 

I am sure there are plenty of people who greatly appreciate the temporary Christmas work at minimum wage created by those spending money this year. However, they aren't likely to help your local economy much, either, as most of that money will flow to the banks. It will keep some out of foreclosure or keep them from being homeless.

 

Buying Christmas presents, unless you specifically look to buy locally or from small local stores, improves the economy of China.;) Which, of course, is also good - then China has more money to loan back to us!:lol:

 

I personally don't care what you buy, what you spend, or how much you talk about it. Yes, it is *very* depressing to read the Christmas threads, so I just don't!:tongue_smilie: The problem is mine, not yours.

[JoyfulMama]

I appreciate the sentiment of not wanting to make anyone feel badly by talking about the things that some may not be able to purchase. Yes, it is sometimes hard to hear what others are purchasing, but I would not want to take away someone else's joy about giving something to someone they love!

If it's hard for me to listen to, then I can make decisions for myself about trying not to read them. Honestly, there are sooooo many different types of conversations that fly here that could be hard for someone to hear. It would be a very quiet board if we didn't discuss any of those things.

 

And before you think me insensitive, or that I've never btdt, I'll simply tell you that, yes, we have.

[lionfamily1999]

I don't know what she intended, but buying Christmas presents and the things you list above are very different. The extracurricular, the Nutcracker, the car repair or roof - those things support the local economy.

 

I am sure there are plenty of people who greatly appreciate the temporary Christmas work at minimum wage created by those spending money this year. However, they aren't likely to help your local economy much, either, as most of that money will flow to the banks. It will keep some out of foreclosure or keep them from being homeless.

 

Buying Christmas presents, unless you specifically look to buy locally or from small local stores, improves the economy of China.;) Which, of course, is also good - then China has more money to loan back to us!:lol:

 

I personally don't care what you buy, what you spend, or how much you talk about it. Yes, it is *very* depressing to read the Christmas threads, so I just don't!:tongue_smilie: The problem is mine, not yours.

It could just be a local thing, but the people I know that get seasonal work (and I may end up doing that this year... hoping it doesn't ruin our hsing through January) get it so they can afford presents for their kids. I know it's not a financially sound thing to do, but using us as an example... We can just afford to keep the utilities, internet, groceries and gas where we need them. If I were to go 'jumping' for UPS for Christmas all of that money would go towards the holidays.

 

Again, I know it's not financially sound to do that, but the majority of people I know that take on seasonal work do it for that reason. Our budget is too tight to do anything this year.

 

But wait! (see below)

 

 

 

 

 

 

OP! My sister is a bit of a toy hoarder. This year, instead of having to blow out my bank account attempting to get a few gifts for the kids my sister and I are going through her attic and garage. Youngest ds is going to be getting a TON of playmobile sets that my nephews have not played with for years. Older ds and dd are not going to see much from this, they're the same age or older than my nephews, so the toys she has set aside are not for the right age group, but!!!!

 

Her church is planning a "Christmas Shop" for parents and children. They're asking all of their toy hoarders to bring in the nicest tidiest bits they have and price them rediculously low.

 

This will be like the old Christmas stores that schools sometimes have for children to buy gifts for their parents, but it will be for parents shopping for their kids (or kids shopping for their relatives). All the stuff will be used, but my sister said they're setting it up so that you wouldn't *know* except that nothing comes in boxes. Shopping at the thrift store is great, but shopping in the midst of Christmas lights and music can make a person feel better :p

 

Just an idea.

[jld]

Honestly, there are sooooo many different types of conversations that fly here that could be hard for someone to hear.

 

I've thought about that, too. When someone is divorced, and maybe feeling lonely, the happy marriage threads might hurt. If someone has celiac disease and can't eat wheat, the baking threads might be hard to see. If someone is estranged from family, the loving parents threads might provoke longing.

 

It's really hard to know what exactly is okay to post, especially if you do want to be sensitive. I think most of us just kind of give up and post what seems interesting to discuss, and probably take some hits for it.

[Renee in NC]

It could just be a local thing, but the people I know that get seasonal work (and I may end up doing that this year... hoping it doesn't ruin our hsing through January) get it so they can afford presents for their kids. I know it's not a financially sound thing to do, but using us as an example... We can just afford to keep the utilities, internet, groceries and gas where we need them. If I were to go 'jumping' for UPS for Christmas all of that money would go towards the holidays.

 

Again, I know it's not financially sound to do that, but the majority of people I know that take on seasonal work do it for that reason. Our budget is too tight to do anything this year.

 

But wait! (see below)

 

OP! My sister is a bit of a toy hoarder. This year, instead of having to blow out my bank account attempting to get a few gifts for the kids my sister and I are going through her attic and garage. Youngest ds is going to be getting a TON of playmobile sets that my nephews have not played with for years. Older ds and dd are not going to see much from this, they're the same age or older than my nephews, so the toys she has set aside are not for the right age group, but!!!!

 

Her church is planning a "Christmas Shop" for parents and children. They're asking all of their toy hoarders to bring in the nicest tidiest bits they have and price them rediculously low.

 

This will be like the old Christmas stores that schools sometimes have for children to buy gifts for their parents, but it will be for parents shopping for their kids (or kids shopping for their relatives). All the stuff will be used, but my sister said they're setting it up so that you wouldn't *know* except that nothing comes in boxes. Shopping at the thrift store is great, but shopping in the midst of Christmas lights and music can make a person feel better :p

 

Just an idea.

 

That's a great idea! I have no problem buying used toys at all - makes more sense to me! I am very blessed that I have dc that don't expect alot, so there won't be any big disappointment. When we were talking to the kids about Christmas and dh said something about not having anything here for them, the 12yo said, "But we'll still have lasagna for Christmas Eve, right?!?!":lol: Cracked me up! They'll get stuff from extended family anyway. We're planning to really play Advent up this year and to make a lot of stuff together.

 

If nothing else, being broke has taught us that traditions and memories are WAY more important than a toy that will break in 3 days that they won't remember 2 months later. We have Christmas dishes that get used from Thanksgiving to Epiphany. They always get sugary, namebrand cereal for Christmas morning (someone here gave me that idea a couple of years ago.) We'll go see Christmas lights and the Christmas Bethlehem a local church puts on every year.

 

Some day it won't be like this, but the traditions will live on regardless. So, I'm able to admit, 2 years or so into this, that there have been benefits to all the trouble.:D