Who is really doing it the Well Trained Mind way?

[Guest TheBugsMom]

After reading the book and taking extensive notes I am ready to get my 1st grader started but then I began to read post after post here and noticed so many are using all kinds of things and it does not look anything like TWTM way. So...who is actually doing it? Even if you dont do it TWTM way...is anyone actually giving their child a full fledged classical education by using tons of curricula out there?:confused:

[patchfire]

Part of it is this is just a great homeschooling board & very active, so yes, you are going to see a lot of people that don't seem to be following WTM closely or at all.

 

On the other hand, yes, there are definitely people who are using WTM's approach to education to guide their homeschooling. Remember that sometimes curricula substitutions become necessary for various reasons, so someone's list of curricula may not read like the WTM recs for that grade. The heart of WTM is an *approach* though, not the specific nitty-gritties, IMO.

[Jennifer in MI]

I agree. My approach and ideal is WTM. I like the 4 year history cycle. I like great literature that coincides with history. I like teaching latin. Etc. I find I can do that quite easily with the help of programs like Sonlight. While not specific to WTM, it sure makes it easier with four children!!

 

Good luck finding your happy medium!

[s.z.ichigo]

I would have to take another look, but I think I'm doing it pretty much the way the prescribe.

 

We use SWB's own programs for History and Grammar. We use Latin for Children, which I don't think was in the book. We use NOEO science, which isn't in there either (though I think it should be). Saxon Math I know is recommended, as are Spelling Workout and Writing Strands. We also do history and science in four-year cycles.

 

I keep records almost the way she suggests, though I can't imagine fitting four years of history into one binder. We use a new one every year. We also don't get NEARLY the amount of library books. I think she said her kids got something like a dozen library books every week. Our library is far away and we go monthly. Even if we went weekly, that's just too many books.

[Dandelion]

We are following the WTM pretty closely. Using last year as an example (DS was in 1st grade), we followed the WTM recommendations for all subjects, with the following exceptions:

 

- We started doing our spelling practice verbally instead of in written form (we started the year using "Spelling Workout" as recommended, but handwriting is DS's biggest struggle due to fine-motor issues - so we're doing spelling practice verbally now)

 

- We've pieced together our own science curriculum instead of using one of the recommended ones. Science is DS's favorite subject, and he absorbs the material quickly and then is ready to move on to something else. I've found it works better for us to use the internet, our old college textbooks and library books to delve into his latest interests, rather than following a structured curriculum approach with science.

 

But we're following the WTM process as outlined in all other areas (Language, Writing, Math, History, Religion, Art & Music - plus we add P.E. & German). Latin doesn't start until 3rd grade, so we're not there yet - I haven't decided yet whether we'll pursue Latin...

[Nestof3]

No, I am not doing everything the WTM way. I have much respect for the author, but I have never put all of my eggs in one basket or believed that one person had the answer for all of my educational needs. I think others are there for inspiration not replication. I have learned that I too am capable of coming up with a way of teaching my boys that works. I think more self-confidence is needed with a lot of homeschoolers. :)

[Julie in Austin]

We follow WTM pretty closely in terms of how we do science, history, math, etc., with two main exceptions:

 

(1) No notebooking in the grammar stage. It just didn't seem helpful to my pencil-allergic boys--reading more books seemed a better use of our time.

 

(2) I pick different curricula when the WTM recommendation doesn't work well for us. So we use Horizons for math, Sequential Spelling for ds2, etc.

[Saille]

LOL, I remember feeling that way when I first got here.

 

I think that, over time, you'll find that there's a core of people here who are deeply committed to a classical education, and who constantly reflect on that process and their desired outcomes. With so many resources available, if SWB tried to fit them all in one book...that would be the whole book, and it would be the size of the yellow pages. One of the great freedoms of homeschooling is the freedom to individualize, based on learning styles and preferences of the children, available planning time or preferred learning style of the parent, how many kids are in the household, what major life events are occurring, etc..

 

I recently sprang for an expensive set of history books to use during the Logic stage, b/c they are rife with primary sources and (still) cheaper than buying a bunch of Jackdaws. They offer a narrative approach to history that the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia lacks (though we have it and will use it), and I think they'll be a good fit for us, and very much in keeping with our goals.

 

OTOH, some of us just love a curriculum fair. :tongue_smilie:

 

HTH,

Sarah.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I am attempting to do it pretty closely to the WTM way. We'll see how it goes.

[Guest janainaz]

I follow it pretty closely. I use most of their recommended curricula (Saxon Math, Spelling WO, SOTW, Writing With Ease, FLL, Rod & Staff English, First Form Latin.....). I chose my own science curriculum (God's Design for Science) and tweaked things to work for us.

 

I know I won't follow TWTM exactly, but it's been a great spine for me. I have not switched curriculum at all and we are starting 5th grade.

[Greeny]

I think doing WTM is the ideal for us and it is the structure we are following, but it is not the bible when it comes to specific curriculum we are using. I believe in reading original source books that coincide with our 4 year history and science cycle.

 

This year we are using Nancy Larson Science 1 (which is life science) because it is pretty open and go and requires little prep work/supply hunting while still getting into some meaty stuff. This is exactly what we need while I finish the last couple semesters or my BSN.

 

Phonics for Reading and Writing by Bonnie Dettmer is not in WTM either, but it is the most thorough and intensive teacher direct program I have seen and is very much in the vein of classical education.

 

We are using SOTW which is by SWB and supplementing with Usbourne because I have heard such wonderful things about SOTW and have also heard that Usbourne tends to be very dry and uninteresting to the little ones.

 

For our extracurriculars we do take liberties and go outside what would be tradition classical education because I think there is great value in allowing a child to develop their creativity by pursing activities that appeal to them. Having a well rounded childhood (that involves having a childhood) is a big one for us.

 

 

If you search around on the WTM site SWB talks about how she was much more flexible with education than it came across in the book because the publisher wanted them to include schedules and times for everything to make it more accessible.

[Aubrey]

When I first encountered this board, I was VERY excited about WTM (still am, but in a different way), & seeing all the other things taht people were doing was a) off-putting & b) overwhelming. When I learned about SOTW, I felt...left out of the loop. I mean, I'd read the 1st ed, I should really know what's going on! :001_smile:

 

So I didn't post here, didn't read things here (harder to read back then, too--2000ish). My oldest was a baby, & I felt silly posting to a hs board, too.

 

Since then, I've wasted quite a bit of $ & tears trying to follow the letter of the WTM & missing the spirit of it, if that makes sense. I ordered Saxon because SWB said it was best. She has a very particular personality--not sure if that's the right word--but she likes a certain style of curric that...well, I've realized I don't & won't. BUT now that I've figured out the *flavor* of curric I prefer, the heart of my phil is still very close to WTM.

 

And over the yrs I've also come to realize that these boards are like a living version of the WTM. The book itself is a brilliant scientific look at the *life* that many of the hs'ers here represent. The book is an essential tool, introduction. But when you're ready, the boards are like a nature walk--a 1st hand view. And what I really love? The kinds of people that are drawn together by that book. It's the most amazing community I've ever encountered.

[dangermom]

We follow it pretty closely, but I doubt that you'll ever find anyone who does it exactly--and that includes SWB, who commented in a lecture I attended a couple of years ago that every time she gives this lecture, she thinks "Oh, we're not doing that [random thing], we should do that!"

 

I don't do nearly as much memory work as WTM recommends. I'm doing Classical Writing, which doesn't seem to be a favorite with SWB, though it is mentioned in the 3rd edition. Logic science looks like it's going to take a somewhat different form and so on.

 

So yeah, the spirit but not necessarily the letter of the "law"--and that is just fine. :)

[Guest TheBugsMom]

Thank you all for the responses.

I have schooled for many many years but using textbooks. Never being satisfied. I tried a few other things but am at a major turning point and am trying to wrap my brain around the classical method.

I appreciate you all explaining how you incorporate it into your school and can see that there is no 'one' way to do this. Trial and error, add and take, tweak and tweak and tweak till it all flows together.

[Desert Rat]

I use some of the suggestions in TWTM. I use the history, writing and grammar. For math, Saxon wasn't a good fit so we're using Singapore. We teach latin but have chosen LFC. I do my own thing for science but follow the basic guidelines in TWTM. And our schedule doesn't look much like those suggested in the book. We've broken ours down into smaller segments every day of the week verus science and history 2 times a week. It works better for us.

I don't think SWB's intent was to have an entire herd of little lemmings following every selection she's chosen. It's a guideline. I use it as such. I follow the basic trivium method with a few twists to fit my kids.

[Renee in NC]

I am using the WTM methods/philosphy with curricula not recommended in TWTM. Those are simply recommendations and many people branch out once they get comfortable with the method. I am not even necessarily using a standard "bought" curriculum for every subject.

 

Instead of Ordinary Parent's Guide, Spelling Workout, and First Language Lessons, I am using Spell to Write and Read. Why? Because it streamlines the process. They are still learning explicit phonics, spelling rules, and memorizing poetry and grammar definitions.

 

We use the textbook for Writing with Ease and I am using the logic stage writing approach as SWB teaches in her conference talks (available for download on the Peace Hill Press website.)

 

My 12yo used Rod and Staff grammar, as recommended. He is also using recommended Logic materials.

 

Instead of one of the math programs she recommends, we are using Rod and Staff - it fits into *why* she recommends what she does just fine! It has the drill of Saxon while being a mastery program (and it is very inexpensive!)

 

We are using Story of the World for my younger ages, but my 12yo is doing a World Geography course. He *hates* history, so forcing him to do the 4-year rotation is unnecessary torture. He'll do the basics of history and focus more on science and math.

 

For science I follow a different sequence, but use the same method. Even she says in the book that there is nothing magic about the 4 year science rotation.

 

If we don't do exactly what she specifies in the books, it doesn't mean we aren't doing it TWTM way. Those curricula in the book are simply suggestions that fit the philosophy. Other things fit as well.

[Food4Thought]

Since then, I've wasted quite a bit of $ & tears trying to follow the letter of the WTM & missing the spirit of it, if that makes sense. I ordered Saxon because SWB said it was best. She has a very particular personality--not sure if that's the right word--but she likes a certain style of curric that...well, I've realized I don't & won't. BUT now that I've figured out the *flavor* of curric I prefer, the heart of my phil is still very close to WTM.

 

 

I feel like this too. I've read the book 3 times now, trying to get my mind sorted for planning. I love the concept. I'm following her ideas for history and science (though with my own book choices - not SOTW). I'm not following most of the language recommendations, though I've looked through all of them and tried hard to figure out how to implement them with an Aspie who struggles with fine motor skills.

 

I feel like it's more about understanding what you want to teach and where to go with it - not the particular curriculum you use. I believe in the basics and in the 4-year history cycle, but I'm focusing more on science and math and less on the language arts. I'm not a hardcore WTMer. And I'm allergic to textbooks or anything resembling textbooks. They make my eyes bleed.

[FaithManor]

We are classical homeschoolers and use elements of WTM probably about 65% of our homeschooling is very, very close. We choose not to study Latin as early as SWB does and we follow a much more rigorous science program than SWM. Our kids are major science buffs and would not be happy with the WTM science program. But that's okay because the whole concept of homeschooling is to tailor the program to our children's needs and natural talents in order to strengthen them in areas of weakness while allowing them to flourish in the their natural bents.

 

We probably followed it the closest when dd was in high school except that she did more upper divisional math and science and less rigorous history and possibly a little less writing. Well, the writing may have been more geared toward what I would call research writing (something she would use in a science major and career) and less creative writing and poetry.

 

Faith

[mcconnellboys]

We are, we are!

 

I use both old and new WTM recs, such as Spelling Workout; Abeka Grammar; Rod and Staff Grammar; Writing Strands; various Logic recs; Singapore math (have used Saxon, too), and others.

 

I make my own studies for literature, geography, science, and history using loads of living books alongside "spines", too.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Me! Regina and I are ordering exactly the same books, I think!

 

We are doing WTM pretty close to the book. I use Singapore, have used Saxon. We do all that Regina mentioned above except for ABEKA grammar. We do use many of the literature recommendations as a starting point as well.

 

The place we have deviated the most is probably science. My oldest needed more structure in science so we used Singapore: My Pals Are Here for the last two years. This year he'll be doing the chem2000 set and research. We will see how that goes.

[smrtmama]

We follow the recommendations pretty closely. We do a little more tech than recommended, because I think technological literacy is extremely important (hence, beginning programming this year).

[kmacnchs]

I am doing it the WTM way (I think). We have our Language Notebook, do Reading, Grammar, Spelling, Writing, and Narration. We do Math (though I use MEP - suggested from the boards, not the book). We do not do activities for History (may start that next year) but I am reading it aloud to them 3x/day. We are doing Science the WTM way. What's left? Art (don't do but would like to start 1x/week), Music (trying to talk MIL into giving piano lessons), and Latin (we chose to do Spanish instead since 1/2 of our family is from Ecuador).

 

Many say the WTM way is overwhelming but (for the early grades, at least), it has given me a HUGE amount of freedom and relief. My 1st grader does about 2-2.5 hrs/day but I space it out so that it seems as though she is only doing 1 hr/day. I read History at breakfast then she does Math, we play as a family for 2 hrs, she does 30 min of school, she watches some TV, we eat lunch, we do science while we spend time outside (right now, we are taking pics of butterflies), then, she reads to me & we do narration for 30 min before she rests in the afternoon. It is so spread out! And it's not like I am doing everything everyday! I only do reading (30 min), math (30-45 min) and spelling (15 min) everyday. Everything else 2-3x/week and only 15-30 min!

[WTMCassandra]

Yes, I am doing my best to follow the WTM philosophy, in my flawed way, and have been doing so for many years. I do use a number of the recommended curricula, but not all of them. Notebooks have mostly flopped at my house except for the writing one, but if that's my major failing when all is said and done, I think we will all live ; ).

 

Historically, SWB only wanted to present the method/philosophy, but people kept asking her for specific curricula recommendations, so she included them. But they are not the only possibilities that will fit the WTM philosophy--she says so herself in WTM. She targets the choices for fit with philosophy, but also ease of use for beginning homeschoolers and reasonable cost. Some of us are willing to forego one or more of these trade-offs and use something else.

 

Here's an example from my life. I tried Writing Strands three different times over several years and LOATHED it each time. However, Classical Writing fits me. It's more complicated and pricey, but I like it. I asked SWB about it once, and she said it was a good program that fit the WTM philosophy mostly, but it was not easy enough for beginners to use and was a bit expensive. She also said it was good for people who had a writing background (which describes me) but may be overwhelming for others.

 

Here's one more: I needed much more teacher help than Saxon would provide for math, so I chose Professor B rather than the Saxon recommended in WTM. I've never been sorry about that decision.

 

We have people on the boards from a variety of backgrounds, and new curricula naturally attract posts/discussions. People doing WTM mostly by the book may have less to say about curricula since they are, well, by the book ; ), so that may be why the discussion seems so lopsided. I personally like lurking around the curricula discussions to see what's out there, but I don't post much in those areas.

[Ester Maria]

Funny thing, depending on how you view it, I'm either a WTM heretic, either a more "orthodox" version of it. :D

 

I use almost none of the curricula discussed on these boards (if not as supplements). English is a secondary language of instruction in our home, as I'm adamant about Italian being the primary one - which is why my children have all of the Italian textbooks per subjects, and our education is largely structured the way it's structured there (though kids are more advanced). We don't approach language arts completely the way WTM recommends (narrations, for example). Geography isn't joint with history the way it is in WTM and we approach it more from the scientific point of view, thus joining it with subjects such as Bio/Chem. Oh yes, we split "science" itno Biology, Chemistry and Physics somewhere around 4th-6th grade and study them in continuum simultaneously. The approach to foreign languages is different, and I don't even agree with all of the reading lists and tend to do things differently there too. The approach to classical languages is radically different as well.

 

That being said, it still surprises me how similar my structure is to that of WTM. We also organize learning around history periods, study chronological history and organize art, music and literature (the latter loosely, and only in Italian) around it. I more or less agree with the writing part too, as well as with - thematically - general sequence in mathematics though this particular I've adapted to my kids.

 

Overall, I think SWB did a great job and the result is that, whether willingly or not, she "adapted" European-style education (if such a thing can be generalized) to the American "system", even though HS period is still largely "American" and very different than something I would/will do. That's probably the reason why I find so much common ground with the structure she suggests, even when I disagree with it. When researching methods and approach to homeschooling, I knew that I would essentially be doing what the kids would have had in a school setting with some differences, and almost nothing "clicked" with me, WTM is pretty much the only thing that felt "home" and where I recognized a similar approach to the one I wanted to go with. :)

[justamouse]

Of all the things I see being most used by my older children, narration, outlining, writing and heavy reading are the gold stars. When my oldest daughter started to share time at her tech school she was the only one who knew how to outline and BOY was she happy I made her do it. But it's not just knowing, it's the repetition over all of the subjects that made her the most proficient.

 

We stick pretty close. It's darned near perfect.

[In2why]

I do things the WTM message board way :D I found the boards after I read the book, when I thought we would follow it a lot more than we do now. I loved just about everything written, in theory, but in reality quite a few things just didn't work for us. I thought that SOTW was wonderful but about halfway through the first book I decided that the time we spent versus what he was actually retaining didn't make sense for us. I also loathed Spelling Workout. So now we use All About Spelling based on posts from this board. I also decided to create my own US History and use a lot of info that I found here. I would say that 90% of my curriculum were bought based on reviews here from people I respect or seem to have children that learn in ways similar to mine. I guess I would say I found the forum because of the book and I stay because of the posters.

Edited August 12, 2010 by In2why
Because I can't spell or write today

[WTMCassandra]

Of all the things I see being most used by my older children, narration, outlining, writing and heavy reading are the gold stars. When my oldest daughter started to share time at her tech school she was the only one who knew how to outline and BOY was she happy I made her do it. But it's not just knowing, it's the repetition over all of the subjects that made her the most proficient.

 

We stick pretty close. It's darned near perfect.

 

I agree. I'm already seeing the same benefits. We just aren't quite as far down the trail. :lol:

[Hedgehogs4]

i believe in the WTM method, but her "prescriptions" are not requirements to give your child a classical education. I would call them clear guidance, but we're also smart enough to modify for our own children and our own teaching style. I personally am not intrinsically motivated enough to do all that she recommends without absolutely crumbling from exhaustion. i need the support of other families for accountability and fellowship, so i have opted to use Classical Conversations. i don't think that SWB and JW consider her methods to be ideal, but then again they have their market, their opinions and their experience. their roots as classical educators go much deeper than mine. Leigh Bortins had to (like myself) learn how to become a classical learner / educator, and then implement it. it's a big job to do this well...

[Hedgehogs4]

Of all the things I see being most used by my older children, narration, outlining, writing and heavy reading are the gold stars. When my oldest daughter started to share time at her tech school she was the only one who knew how to outline and BOY was she happy I made her do it. But it's not just knowing, it's the repetition over all of the subjects that made her the most proficient.

 

We stick pretty close. It's darned near perfect.

 

:iagree: and will combine all these things with our use of CC.

[Peela]

To the OP- once you have homeschooled a while, you will become your own authority, and you will tweak for your own children and situation. TWTM is a great foundation, but when you find your own kid has a problem with this or that, or you cant relate to a certain program, or something in TWTM sounds good but in real life your kid isnt handling it or ready for it or just plain hates it and you have a tantrum every day...you will tweak. :001_smile:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

After reading the book and taking extensive notes I am ready to get my 1st grader started but then I began to read post after post here and noticed so many are using all kinds of things and it does not look anything like TWTM way. So...who is actually doing it? Even if you dont do it TWTM way...is anyone actually giving their child a full fledged classical education by using tons of curricula out there?:confused:

 

Not to be snarky. There have been long threads where people discussed what they thought were the most important aspects of classical education. Use of Latin? Primary documents, the trivium as developmental stages or just areas of study, rigor, narration and writing . . .

 

Also, book availability effects the recommendations in WTM. There are different history spines in the different editions, not because one is so superior to the other, but because books keep going out of print and SWB doesn't want to recommend a book that isn't widely available or that is selling for hundreds of dollars. (No kidding, there was a time when the recently out of print Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World was selling for $250 and people were actually paying that. On Amazon about a week ago, there were multiple copies for under $10. But the history was no more or less true at either price.) So which one is the WTM way, the 1st edition that has few specific history book recommendations or the most recent edition, that might mention several, but doesn't mention those from the first book?

 

I love Story of the World, but I also love the recommendations from my old Well Trained Mind, because it stresses that what is important isn't finding the right curriculum, but learning about certain periods and events and learning to think and write about them.

 

And yes, this is an incredible open and welcoming forum that attracts many who don't emphasize classical education. If you can even get a consensus on what the definitives of a classical education are.

[kalanamak]

We are following the WTM pretty closely. .

 

I follow the 4 year history cycle. I'm moving the 4 year sci cycle to 6 month Chem and 6 mon physics, and doing 4th grade as 3 months of bio, earth/stars, and then 3 months chem and physics. We do a LOT of science and want to shake it up a bit.

 

Let's see: I use ZB, SWO, SOTW, kingfisher history and usborne science encylcopedia, WWE, SM, Adventures in Atoms and Molecules....all WTM suggestions. I also use RSO, while the new WTM mentioned RS4K. They aren't radically different. I am doing Minimus and Song School Latin and am probably NOT going to use the WTM resources for Latin (looking for more secular). I'm using GWG instead of R&S?FLL and am going onto MCT, if it works. So, I'm NOT using FLL, although I've done some EFTTC, which was what was in the first WTM. I used PP for reading, but I mostly used SWR to teach him to read, which is not in WTM

 

We do narration for our science experiments, for the grammar stage, instead of for history, but I intend to move that over to history as kiddo gets older and understands "Life" better.

 

I took the test in Cathy Duffy's 100 Greatest Picks, and found that I'm nearly neck in neck with CM and Classical homeschooling. This surprized me, as I've done absolutely no reading on CM, but we do a lot of outdoor nature things, and scads of "living books".

 

Did that answer your question? As others have noted, I go to the WTM first, and try what it says (all three editions). If something really doesn't appeal, I look here. I don't believe I've used ANY spine not in the WTM or mentioned here.

 

So, anything I do that isn't in WTM is a move away from the default and for a sincere reason (secular wanted, didn't work, I loathed, etc). HTH

 

LOL! look at all those letters.