No flames please.....help me understand what's so special about Math Mammoth.

[BatmansWife]

Oh jeepers!!! I just posted this on the For Sale board!!! Forgot what board I was on.....duh!!!!! :blushing:

 

I've seen Math Mammoth mentioned so many times and occasionally I look at the website. But....I guess I don't really get it. Is this a supplement or a full curriculum? What's so special about it? Do you love it, like it, hate it....and why?? :confused:

 

 

Just curious, I guess......

[Lightly Salted]

Well, I can only speak for me ... I like that it's Asian-style math (like Singapore, for which I have high respect) but is designed for homeschool rather than classroom use. It was fairly inexpensive to purchase (several years of curriculum on cd) and can be used to supplement or as a full curriculum. And it just makes sense to me and to the kids in a way Singapore hadn't been. We're using Light Blue (the full curriculum) alongside Math U See.

[Crimson Wife]

The "light blue" program is designed to be a full curriculum. The "blue" single topic worktexts are designed to be supplements (I use personally use them to supplement Singapore).

 

What I really like about Math Mammoth is that it's based on the Asian way of teaching math but doesn't make the conceptual leaps that Singapore does. Maria Miller does an excellent job walking the student through the topic step-by-step-by-step.

 

For example, chapter 3 in Singapore 3A covers multiplication with carrying, division with remainders, and long division in literally 3-4 pages for each topic. Even with the additional information in the Home Instructor's Guide, there was no way my DD was going to be able to grasp those difficult concepts that quickly. So I bought the MM "blue" worktexts Multiplication 2, Division 1, and Division 2. I had my DD work through the relevant sections of the MM books prior to covering the material in Singapore.

 

I've been very impressed by the MM books I've purchased.

[HerdingCats]

We like Math Mammoth because after having tried several different programs, it has the most thorough conceptual explanations I have seen in a very useable format. I like the Singapore approach, but I found it cumbersome to use with the different books (MM has only one text with teaching and worksheets included) and sometimes there were leaps in understanding required from the student where we would fall off the bus. It has a subject-oriented book series which is ideal for supplementation, and a grade-level series which is great for a primary program. It seems to be rigorous but with ease of use. I think that's why people like it so much.

[Just Robyn]

We use it as a supplement and here's why I like it.

 

I like Singapore Math, in theory, but I tried it and do not personally find it user-friendly (not me-friendly anyway). When it comes to math, I prefer daily lessons: Day 1: ... Day 2:... The HIG did not provide that. So, I think SM could be good for my kids, but if I don't feel confident about my own use of a curriculum then that can totally undo how good it could be for my kids, YKWIM?

 

MM allows me to stick to a curriculum I am comfortable using for our main math, but bring in the SM style as a supplement that is easy to use and doesn't take too much time.

[sleepymommy]

My main reason for loving it is a that ds1 actually understands the skills taught and does very well with the program. It's straightforward without a lot of frills and after much trial and error, I've found that this works best for him.

 

In addition to that, is that it is based on Asian math and it is a really conceptually strong program, which is a must in this house or dh wouldn't allow me to homeschool.

[BatmansWife]

I had no idea it was an Asian math. Hmmmm....interesting. Thank you everyone.

[khall]

We've only been using it a few months, but I love the understanding that DD8 seems to be gaining by using it. We're currently in 2A, because after a year of Horizons she knew how to "do" math, but didn't understand why she was doing certain things. She scored very high on her standardized test, but completely bombed the Math Mammoth grade two end of year test, which is why I started her in the beginning of MM grade 2. I love how different approaches to solving problems are taught, rather than the "this is how you must do this type of problem" approach. We just did a page the other day where there were a few addition problems with carrying and they were already solved (incorrectly, with a variety of different types of errors). The instructions were to find the mistakes and explain why they were wrong. That requires a good solid understanding of what is happening and some deep thinking. Love it!

[chiguirre]

I had no idea it was an Asian math. Hmmmm....interesting. Thank you everyone.

 

Well, it's actually Finnish math, but they're very similar...

[JMDRAD]

We just started us MM a few weeks ago as a supplement to MUS. MUS is great but MM takes things a step further by making her think through a more complicated problem using the skills she has already learned. I loved the convenience and low cost of downloading this program.

[misidawnrn]

DD was doing Saxon math. When I pulled her out of school I kept doing that since that is what she was used to but after a while I didn't like all of the jumping and only doing a few questions on a few topics every day. I looked into MM #1 because of the reviews here and I wanted something that didn't jump all over. and #2, the price is great.

 

That said...we are on about page 40 and DD is actually challanged with it, which I like but once I show her the concept she gets it really fast. I LOVE the fact that it doesn't have all the bells and whistles like SM with the meeting book, teacher guide doing extra things.

 

Those are the only 2 programs we have used though so not much to compare to.

[Aoife]

You people kill me with all the fun new math program suggestions! :lol: Luckily MUS and SM and really clicking with my DC and I but I can't help myself from looking at other cool programs. LOL That said if one of the youngers didn't synch with SM I think I'd probably go the MM route. I have considered looking into it more deeply as a supplement though as my older DS is math obsessed and can't get enough as it is :lol: If he had it his way math would be an all day class lol

[jewel7123]

I'm considering MM as well. I'd love to hear the opposite point of view. Did Math Mammoth NOT work for anyone, and more importantly, WHY? I remember reading on a thread recently that is was a flop for someone, but I can't remember which thread or who, lol, so I can't ask them about it further.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Well,I'm not sure I'd call it a flop but MM did not click for my ds. I liked it but all he saw were pages of problems he needed to do. I really liked it but I switched ds to RS and he has improved dramatically. As with all thing YMMV.

[thowell]

The only thing I can say is that it is the only thing that has worked for dsd11 who is behind many levels. There is something about the way they really break down a concept and present it in ways that just seem to make sense. For the first time in years sds11 is really getting it and making progress.

[Momling]

My kids don't really like MM, but then, I don't think any math book would get their approval. Actually - that's not exactly true, what my older daughter said is: "Life of Fred teaches me new things and MM really packs it in. I don't like packing."

 

That said, I like the small incremental steps that MM takes. Maria is really good at offering mental math strategies, building up slowly, giving clear descriptions and offering lots of practice. It's no miracle book and it is a little bit plain, but I recommend it for its clarity and simplicity and price.

[Beth in SW WA]

Well, it's actually Finnish math, but they're very similar...

 

Speaking of Finnish math.... Read this 2008 WSJ article about the Finnish ed system. Impressive.

[kalanamak]

I'm considering MM as well. I'd love to hear the opposite point of view. Did Math Mammoth NOT work for anyone, and more importantly, WHY?

 

I'm too computer illiterate to download it.

[mazakaal]

Speaking of Finnish math.... Read this 2008 WSJ article about the Finnish ed system. Impressive.

 

 

It almost makes me want to move to Finland!

[Alessandra]

Well, it's actually Finnish math, but they're very similar...

 

Could someone elaborate on the differences between Asian math and Finnish math, please?

[Corraleno]

Could someone elaborate on the differences between Asian math and Finnish math, please?

MM is just "Asian-type" math taught by a Finnish mathematician. It's very very similar to Singapore Math; it focuses heavily on underlying mathematical concepts, emphasizes mental math, and uses the same "bar diagram" to solve word problems that Singapore does. Both programs include varied problem sets with strong, multi-step word problems.

 

Liping Ma's book, Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics provides a good explanation of the differrences between the way math is taught in Asia (and parts of Europe) and the way it is taught in the US.

 

Jackie

[Country Girl]

MM is just "Asian-type" math taught by a Finnish mathematician. It's very very similar to Singapore Math; it focuses heavily on underlying mathematical concepts, emphasizes mental math, and uses the same "bar diagram" to solve word problems that Singapore does. Both programs include varied problem sets with strong, multi-step word problems.

 

Liping Ma's book, Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics provides a good explanation of the differrences between the way math is taught in Asia (and parts of Europe) and the way it is taught in the US.

 

Jackie

 

 

I've heard others mention Liping Ma's book but I don't have a copy (yet:D). So could anyone give an overview of what is so "special" about Asian math and how it compares to US math?

 

Thanks!

[robsiew]

I don't know that there is anything "special" about MM, but in my estimation it's a very solid conceptual math program. We have been using MUS, but I was seeing some weaknesses in it so I bought MM Blue to supplement. I liked it so much we have switched over to Light Blue as our main math program. Much like a pp said, I found MUS was good, but didn't go far enough. MM goes that one step deeper into making sure the concepts are applied in different ways and that my kids have to actually think and use what they've learned.

 

The thing that stands out to me is that Maria introduces a concept... has the child work with it many different ways and then at the end of the lesson the child needs to apply what they've learned in different ways. It's not just the same format sheet after sheet and the application isn't as straightforward as what we've experienced in MUS.

 

I'm not expecting miracles... hopefully a greater understanding of mathematical concepts though! :D

 

Beware reading the Ma Liping book.... you will never look at math the same way... (or anything else you learn for that matter!) ;)

[robsiew]

I've heard others mention Liping Ma's book but I don't have a copy (yet:D). So could anyone give an overview of what is so "special" about Asian math and how it compares to US math?

 

Thanks!

 

There are a lot of points she brings up, but one that caught my attention was that the Asian teachers tended to show relationships between concepts more than American teachers. We tend to teach skills in isolation. We don't tend to dig into the meaning behind the algorithms as much. After reading this book one thing I realized is that I need to help my children see how math concepts interconnect. To do that one needs to have a deep understanding of "why" things are the way they are. Our students (if they even know the algorithms) tend not to be able to show those relationships as well. Of course, we didn't do so well in actually knowing basic math functions either.... there is a lot more, but this is one major new idea I took away....

[Beth in SW WA]

I'm too computer illiterate to download it.

 

:lol:

 

I barely figured it out. :)

 

I printed Addition 1, Subtraction 1, Place Value 1, 2, 3 & Multiplication 1 this week. Took me 5 minutes to order & print. Maria makes it monkey-simple.

 

We started the worksheets this week as a supplement to our other math studies. Dd 7 is doing PV 3 & Mult 1. Dd 6 will work through the rest.

 

I love that MM is open & go w/o a text or IG. The price is wonderful. I would not use MM as our sole math program...yet. :) For fleshing out a concept, MM will be ideal, imho (after using it for only one week).

 

Slight digression....

 

My MIL (who has her masters in math from 1965 and taught elementary math for years) is nervous helping the kids with their Singapore because it looks 'different' from the traditional math she is familiar with. (What????)

 

Anywho, I'm hoping she will help the kids with MM on the too-rare occasions the kids go across the street to her house to play.

[Alessandra]

Liping Ma's book, Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics provides a good explanation of the differrences between the way math is taught in Asia (and parts of Europe) and the way it is taught in the US.

Jackie

 

Thank you. I just ordered a copy from Abebooks.

[Country Girl]

There are a lot of points she brings up, but one that caught my attention was that the Asian teachers tended to show relationships between concepts more than American teachers. We tend to teach skills in isolation. We don't tend to dig into the meaning behind the algorithms as much. After reading this book one thing I realized is that I need to help my children see how math concepts interconnect. To do that one needs to have a deep understanding of "why" things are the way they are. Our students (if they even know the algorithms) tend not to be able to show those relationships as well. Of course, we didn't do so well in actually knowing basic math functions either.... there is a lot more, but this is one major new idea I took away....

 

Thanks for the explanation. It sounds like an interesting read.

[Crimson Wife]

So could anyone give an overview of what is so "special" about Asian math and how it compares to US math?

 

I had a very traditional math program growing up. I always got A's in math and scored >700 on the math portions of the SAT & GRE. I could calculate the correct answer quickly. But if you asked me why the algorithms worked, I could not have told you until I started homeschooling my kids with programs based on the Asian way of teaching math (first RS, now Singapore supplemented with MM). Traditional American math focuses on rote memorization while Asian math focuses on conceptual understanding. It's not enough to be able to follow an algorithm- the student needs to also understand why the algorithm works.

 

I wish I'd been taught the Asian way because I really do think it's superior. It would've been nice to have the "light bulb" go off in elementary school rather than in my 30's, KWIM?

[khall]

It would've been nice to have the "light bulb" go off in elementary school rather than in my 30's, KWIM?

 

This is me too :lol:! I loved math, got a 5 on the AP Calc exam, tutored math classes as my work study job in college, taught Algebra II for a summer to Upward Bound students, and prior to taking our children out of ps to homeschool them, I was working at the elementary school teaching Title I math to the students who needed extra help. It's very sad to say that during the past year I've learned so much more by teaching my own kids with MEP and MM. I was really good at applying algorithms before, but now I actually "get it". Happily, DS9 already "gets it".

[truebluexf]

I wish I'd been taught the Asian way because I really do think it's superior. It would've been nice to have the "light bulb" go off in elementary school rather than in my 30's, KWIM?

 

ITA. DH feels the same way. Neither of us is gifted in math, but wow the lightbulbs that have gone off for us both!!! Even I can do stuff in my head easier, and many of the 'tricks' I have taught DS (through RS) were things I had to come up with on my own years later.

 

I asked on the board but no one answered, so maybe I'll have better luck there. Has anyone's kids taken standardized tests after learning with MM? I'd like to know how they are doing before committing to a switch.

[Aconnolley]

Has anyone's kids taken standardized tests after learning with MM? I'd like to know how they are doing before committing to a switch.

 

 

 

:bigear:

[Jennay]

I asked on the board but no one answered, so maybe I'll have better luck there. Has anyone's kids taken standardized tests after learning with MM? I'd like to know how they are doing before committing to a switch.

 

I'm not sure an answer to this would give you very much information. Just because some kids might use MM and get good test scores doesn't mean it's the right program for your kid. There are kids who use Saxon who do great on standardized test, those who use Horizons and do great on standardized tests, etc. and then there ar those who aren't good test takers and will score poorly even if they used the perfect math program.

[truebluexf]

I'm not sure an answer to this would give you very much information. Just because some kids might use MM and get good test scores doesn't mean it's the right program for your kid. There are kids who use Saxon who do great on standardized test, those who use Horizons and do great on standardized tests, etc. and then there ar those who aren't good test takers and will score poorly even if they used the perfect math program.

 

 

I know. :) But if kids are doing poor on the tests over and over, it DOES say something. And vice versa. ;)

[Momling]

I know. :) But if kids are doing poor on the tests over and over, it DOES say something. And vice versa. ;)

 

I suspect the closest you could really come is to look at which standardized test it is that your state is using and then check Math Mammoth (or any textbook you are considering) and make sure that the scope of the book for the grade level is aligned with the expectation of the standardized test for that grade level.

 

I think if your goal is to have your children perform well on a standardized math test, you should use that test as your standard for what they should know. You might even consider using a test prep book as your 'spine' if that's the way you want to go.

[truebluexf]

LOL I think I have come off wrong. We have been using RS and I'd like to switch. I already know DS has been 'ahead' in math with RS, and just wanted to make sure MM would help him maintain that. I'm really not a huge "standardized test" person, it's just the only way I can think of to compare! :)

[Crimson Wife]

LOL I think I have come off wrong. We have been using RS and I'd like to switch. I already know DS has been 'ahead' in math with RS, and just wanted to make sure MM would help him maintain that. I'm really not a huge "standardized test" person, it's just the only way I can think of to compare! :)

 

I think that any program with solid conceptual teaching will help a reasonably bright child be "ahead" of the curve. :)

[truebluexf]

I just had a panicky moment about switching. ;) Really worst case scenario would be we go back to RS, right? And I have the C book sitting here unfinished if needed. ;) I'm just intrigued by the ease of getting the same type of info in a less teacher-intensive fashion. I think having two to teach this year is making me nervous LOL. I know so many mamas who teach way more!