Resetting body clocks for night owl children...

[Lovedtodeath]

So I gave them Melatonin, after screaming for a while they were asleep by 11:30 PM. Got up at around 5:45. Now what?I know less than 7 hours of sleep isn't good no matter what.

[Tea Time]

So I gave them Melatonin, after screaming for a while they were asleep by 11:30 PM. Got up at around 5:45. Now what?I know less than 7 hours of sleep isn't good no matter what.

 

Well, I sure don't have an definitive answer for this, but I have made major changes to myself. I've struggled all my life with mornings. What I do know is that it is not reset until 1) you start getting up in the morning consistently 2) you are tired enough to fall asleep come "bed time" consistently.

 

Staying up all day is the trick, or perhaps taking a short nap in the early afternoon so that making it to the real bed time is even possible. Also, for me it essential that I do something quiet and pleasant for the first hour, so I have my computer time and a cup of tea or coffeee then. Jumping straight into the shower or an unpleasant task is very brutal for me. Can't do it.

 

Then... stay up and stay busy! That system, plus fixing major health issues, is the thing that worked for me. But my kids are another story. They are teens and that is a whole huge issue. Early classes and jobs are needed for them to rally in the AM, in which case they can seem to get up for those things. I envy true morning people!

 

Good luck!

[In The Great White North]

I am by nature a morning person, except when I don't get enough sleep. Then it gradually morphs to getting going to bed later and staying up later. The only thing that stops the cycle is getting enough exercise to fall asleep (exhausted) at a reasonable time in the evening. Then I sleep through the night and am a cheerful morning person again. If I don't get enough exercise, I either can't fall asleep early enough or wake up in the middle of the night, and start to morph back into a night owl.

 

 

Try adjusting the amount of exercise they get and see if that helps.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks for the ideas

[Lovedtodeath]

My ideal is for me to be up at 8, Emily to be up at 8:45, Jake to be up at 9:45

[LibraryLover]

My night owl is falling alseep earlier these days. Summer runs her ragged; beach, pool, camp, riding bikes longer distances with sibs, ballet etc. She also went to sleepaway camp and was able to fall asleep by 10 or so. Lights out was at 9:30, and her cabin couselor said she was out no later most nights except the first. The kids were up by 6, and nobody was too quiet about it. lol

 

If your days are alreay busym this won't work. But I know the increased activity here seems to have made a differece. I also noticed when she took up ballet (nearly 9 hours a week) she was able to nod off earlier. She is still a night person, but it's been moved from midnight to 10/10:30/11:00, depending on activity level. I still notice she gets really good ideas at night and will often start in on it. I don't think this natural part of her will change, so I want to be able to let her have the creative time. But it's fine at 9 instead of 11. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

But see, pediatricians, etc. say that children need more than 8 hours of sleep and that is all they got at camp.:confused:

 

and yeah, for my kids to be really active I have to be too. I need energy for things other than playing. :confused:

[LibraryLover]

She only got about 8 hours, which is usually fine for her (and Dad). The chidlren didn't need to be at breakfast until 7:30, but I think camp is exciting and so the kids wake early, ready to rumble. I would worry about children who needed 8-10 hours a night not getting it if it were on a regular basis, but I dont think a week or so of camp would be a big deal. It wasn't for us. Those camp counselors are smart, too. There is a 90 minute 'quite cabin time' every afternoon. ;)

 

They may start sleeping later, or falling asleep earlier once it's not so light out. Everyone has difference needs. One kid might need 12, on might need 8 or 10. I wouldnt worry unless the children were basket cases on days the only got 8 hours. I go by the behavior of the children, their general ability to deal with a day, rather than a number from a pedi.

 

Do they always wake so early?

 

Can they do 'run ragged' things without you at times? My youngest is at morning camp program that meets 9-12. I should be vaccuming, but the vac is broken. lol

 

But see, pediatricians, etc. say that children need more than 8 hours of sleep and that is all they got at camp.:confused:

 

and yeah, for my kids to be really active I have to be too. I need energy for things other than playing. :confused:

Edited July 20, 2010 by LibraryLover

[elfgivas]

i think the easiest way might be to take them tent camping for a few days....

 

up near dawn, in bed just after dusk singing around the campfire, lots of sunlight, no media, lots of exercise.... the only other thing you'd have to impose would be regular meal times. (those are all the things -routine, sunlight, exercise, lack of media and artificial light that seem to make a difference)

 

then transition home with the same rules for a while.... media could come back in gradually until it starts to shift body clocks again....

 

good luck; mornings are magical.

 

(all that said, with one of our babies, severely jetlagged at 3 months old, i had to move her one hour ahead each day for forever.... that was not so fun. i wish i had known the camping trick then!)

 

fwiw,

ann

[milovany]

I cut out an article once from Yankee Magazine about re-setting the body's clock to an earlier rising; I wish I would have kept it. One of the things I remember, though, is to use the time change in the autumn to your favor. About six weeks before the time change you start going to bed earlier, no matter what. There were some other steps -- maybe it was a gradual thing? I can't remember. But anyway, once the time change comes around, you continue with the same bed time, only now it's an hour "earlier".

 

I would use the early risings to your advantage as well -- even if they're getting less than 8 hours of sleep for a short time. Continue getting up early, eventually they'll be READY for bed by 7 or whatever time you're aiming for.

[Lovedtodeath]

We must be terrible useless parents. After getting up at 5:50 AM It is 10:15 PM and they are just now in bed with lights off.

[melissel]

We must be terrible useless parents. After getting up at 5:50 AM It is 10:15 PM and they are just now in bed with lights off.

 

It takes more than one night to reset them, that I do know for sure. It will take a week or so, or maybe longer. And hey, you're ahead of the game by at least an hour compared to last night, right?

 

How much sun do they get during the day? There's something about the amount of direct sunlight you get each day that helps regulate your sleep. I know it will exhaust you, but can you plan your next week so that you're getting them outside a lot during the day? Pool, park, yard, etc? We've cycled into the girls going to sleep later than I like and not waking until 9:45 or 10, and that while that's not terrible over the summer, it still poses a bit of a problem because we school year round. It will be a HUGE problem come fall, because the girls gets very frustrated and upset when their whole day is taken up by school, and it sure is hard to get done early when you don't start until 11:30!

 

Keep working on it and give it some time. It's not easy, but it can be done.

[Jean in Newcastle]

We must be terrible useless parents. After getting up at 5:50 AM It is 10:15 PM and they are just now in bed with lights off.

 

Not useless. You just have habits or routines that need to be adjusted if your goal is an earlier lights out time. I would suggest sitting down and writing down what happens every evening after dinner - perhaps a notation for each hour or half hour (depending on how packed your evenings are). That will give you an idea of where the time is going and what is important to preserve.

 

For us, my kids do not get to bed until 9:30 at night (though I think both of mine are slightly older). That is because having a family Bible study is important to us and dh can't do it until around 9 pm. But even up to a week ago, the bedtime was steadily being pushed back by "circumstances" until it was becoming 9:45, 10 pm and later. By reviewing what our habits were I realized that I couldn't move Bible study, but I could move brushing teeth etc. to before Bible study. Now we finish Bible study and throw the kids in bed! Bedtime is back to 9:30.

 

Also - my kids wake up early sometimes but they know that they are not allowed to come out of their rooms until 8 am except for going to the bathroom.

[sbgrace]

5:30!! Ugh. :grouphug:

 

I don't think you can change a true wired night owl but you can set habits.

 

Melatonin can be your friend in adjusting. So can bright morning sun exposure and a consistent wake time. That said one of mine just gets up earlier and earlier when he's tired so he has to be rested and I wouldn't dare wake him. If they have light coming in at that time in the morning and are close to their normal allotment of sleep I think it's going to be tough. It might be easier to adjust them when the days are shorter.

[Peela]

I do think sleep is very important but if you are trying to establish a new routine, I wouldn't back down over some lost hours of sleep. Get them up at the same time every day. If you want them up at 7, and they get up at 5.30...either go with it, or, tell them to stay in their rooms till 7am. Tell them what you are doing and stick by it. You cant make them fall asleep, but you can make them stay in their rooms/beds.

My kids would prefer to be night owls now that they are teens but it just doesnt work for homeschooling bcause they have afternoon activities so we need to do most of our work in the mornings. So I wake them up at 7, if they havent already woken themselves, which is what they are meant to be doing.

My teens are ages 14 and 16- all electronics go off at 8.30 pm so that they can do dishes and chores, and go to bed, and supposedly read, and still get a good 9-10 hours sleep, which both still need.

During holidays they revert to really late nights and sleeping in...but that doesn't work for us during school days.

I am pretty relaxed in many areas but I learnt early on with homeschooling that this is one of those issues that is crucial to how well our days go...both that we start early, and that they (and I) get enough sleep.

[Only me]

I just wish that I could reset my 15 year old daughter's clock. No matter what we have tried it hasn't worked. For the past 3 months I have gotten her up at the same time (even on weekends) but it doesn't help. She still can't fall asleep until between 2 and 5 and wakes up several times during the night. So even waking her up at 9:00 am wasn't giving her enough sleep since she is really only sleeping for about half the time. About a week ago I gave up again and have been letting her "sleep" as late as she can. This doesn't always mean noon since we have activities, appointments, etc. that we have to leave early for. Even though she is still very tired if she sleeps until 11 am then she is getting more like 5 or 6 hours instead of 3 or 4.

[OrganicAnn]

You just have to consistently have them get up at the same time. I might take several days/weeks for them to start falling asleep early.

 

Are they in their rooms with the lights out? What are they doing till 11:30? If they are - playing, - watching TV, - rough housing, reading etc. then that will affect them going to sleep.

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, I get Jake up early and then he takes a nap at 7PM. Getting hiim up early isn't working at all. It is backfiring big time. :(

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some children get more hyper is they are tired and then they can't sleep. Sometimes it is a matter of finding that window when they are tired. Once they get a second wind, then it is hard for them to settle down again. I know this is true for myself.

[melissel]

Well, I get Jake up early and then he takes a nap at 7PM. Getting hiim up early isn't working at all. It is backfiring big time. :(

 

Out of curiosity, why do you have him take a nap at 7 p.m.? Why don't you just put him to bed at that time?

[Lovedtodeath]

Out of curiosity, why do you have him take a nap at 7 p.m.? Why don't you just put him to bed at that time?

I would love it if he would go to bed at that time, but he will wake up 1-6 hours later. The same is true anytime I have put him to bed before 11PM. :( I am thinking though, that if I can get him up early (my goal is around 9 AM) and hold off on a nap, maybe I can get him to bed earlier... but not before 9:30, as that has always, always been a nap. Consistently.

 

Thank you all for the help. I do appreciate it.

[ChristyH463]

I would love it if he would go to bed at that time, but he will wake up 1-6 hours later. The same is true anytime I have put him to bed before 11PM. :( I am thinking though, that if I can get him up early (my goal is around 9 AM) and hold off on a nap, maybe I can get him to bed earlier... but not before 9:30, as that has always, always been a nap. Consistently.

 

Thank you all for the help. I do appreciate it.

 

I really feel your pain. We're dealing with this with my 2 year old. Left alone, she stays up until midnight, sometimes even 1 or 2 am (it cycles later and later), then sleeps until 11 in the morning. Sometimes she takes a nap late afternoon (and is then up until the wee hours of the morning again), sometimes not. If I manage to keep her from taking a nap in the late afternoon so I can get her to bed early, she just wakes up late at night (and the cycle continues). We are really struggling to change this, because DH and I really don't like having her up until midnight or later, and because sleeping till 11 is just not going to work when we start school next week. I'm at a complete loss. Getting her up early in the morning (if I can even wake her) backfires for us like it does for you, because then she takes a "nap" in the evening.

 

We are going to try for a few weeks just taking her to bed at 10 with all the lights out, and if she lays in bed awake in the dark, then so be it. Then we'll get her up at 9 every morning, and just try to "force" the change in her schedule. DH thinks it will work, I don't think it will. We'll see. All that is to say, I don't have any help for you :001_unsure: but I completely understand what you're dealing with. I dealt with it even when I worked and she *had* to get up early, so getting up early at the same time every day doesn't always fix it.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks Christy. Update: He was asleep at 9:30 last night and was up from 2-4 (lights out, etc., just milling around on the bed, asking for water, kicking me in the head...) Not up yet this morning, but I will wake him soon.

[melissel]

I would love it if he would go to bed at that time, but he will wake up 1-6 hours later. The same is true anytime I have put him to bed before 11PM. :( I am thinking though, that if I can get him up early (my goal is around 9 AM) and hold off on a nap, maybe I can get him to bed earlier... but not before 9:30, as that has always, always been a nap. Consistently.

 

Thank you all for the help. I do appreciate it.

 

Huh, I thought I was the only one who had a kid like that! When DD4 was a baby/toddler, if she went to sleep before 8 p.m., she would wake 1-2 hours later and be up half the night. Literally. One night my mom put her to bed at 7:50, because she thought it was close enough. Two hours later...:banghead: As a matter of fact, she may still be inclined to do it, but I haven't even tried to put her to bed before 8 p.m. for years!

 

Your situation is mystifying, that's for sure! How's your daughter doing? Have you managed to settle her schedule? Has your little guy always been this way? Do you think that if you switched him into his own bed, he might sleep better (maybe with fewer movements in the bed, no sounds other than his own, that kind of thing)? Have you tried talking to him about it? I know when DD4 was waking every single night looking for water and/or companionship, I had to start telling her every night before bed, "If you wake tonight, I CANNOT lay with you. I can come give you a hug and tuck you back in, but then I will go back to my own bed. I CANNOT lay with you in your bed--it hurts my back and makes both of us sleep very poorly." It took a week or so, but she finally she either didn't come looking for me at night or accepted when I put her back in bed and left the door open a crack.

 

I know these are probably basic solutions that you've already tried--I'm just trying to throw out ideas that may have worked for us. Has your little guy always been a night waker? Are you still nursing him at night? Have you tried talking to the ped about it?

 

:grouphug: This is such a hard one. We always think the sleep deprivation will end when they pass the baby/toddler stage. It makes life near impossible when it doesn't!

[Lovedtodeath]

Huh, I thought I was the only one who had a kid like that! When DD4 was a baby/toddler, if she went to sleep before 8 p.m., she would wake 1-2 hours later and be up half the night. Literally. One night my mom put her to bed at 7:50, because she thought it was close enough. Two hours later...:banghead: As a matter of fact, she may still be inclined to do it, but I haven't even tried to put her to bed before 8 p.m. for years!

 

Your situation is mystifying, that's for sure! How's your daughter doing? Have you managed to settle her schedule? Has your little guy always been this way? Do you think that if you switched him into his own bed, he might sleep better (maybe with fewer movements in the bed, no sounds other than his own, that kind of thing)? Have you tried talking to him about it? I know when DD4 was waking every single night looking for water and/or companionship, I had to start telling her every night before bed, "If you wake tonight, I CANNOT lay with you. I can come give you a hug and tuck you back in, but then I will go back to my own bed. I CANNOT lay with you in your bed--it hurts my back and makes both of us sleep very poorly." It took a week or so, but she finally she either didn't come looking for me at night or accepted when I put her back in bed and left the door open a crack.

 

I know these are probably basic solutions that you've already tried--I'm just trying to throw out ideas that may have worked for us. Has your little guy always been a night waker? Are you still nursing him at night? Have you tried talking to the ped about it?

 

:grouphug: This is such a hard one. We always think the sleep deprivation will end when they pass the baby/toddler stage. It makes life near impossible when it doesn't!

Thank you! Yes.

 

DD is straightened out for the most part... I still let her stay up about an hour later than our goal so that I can get more sleep in the morning. ;)

 

I sometimes wonder if sleeping in his own bed would help, but if I am not in bed with him then he really gets up, whereas at least if I am there he lays down and tries.

[melissel]

I sometimes wonder if sleeping in his own bed would help, but if I am not in bed with him then he really gets up, whereas at least if I am there he lays down and tries.

 

Yeah, I've been there too. The only way I got both girls sleeping in their own beds was to go in with them when they woke in the night and sleep there for the rest of the night, or until I woke and was able to go back to my bed. It was a long haul for both, but we did get there.

 

I always hate when this gets trotted out, but it's so true: This too shall pass. It just may seem like 100 years until it does! I hope you can figure it out!

[ChristyH463]

I always hate when this gets trotted out, but it's so true: This too shall pass. It just may seem like 100 years until it does! I hope you can figure it out!

 

That's my mantra!! It's how I keep myself (somewhat) sane when I still have a toddler running around, wide awake at midnight! And I get what you're saying about going to sleep for a little while, then going and going for hours. My DD can literally go to sleep for 5 minutes in the car, and that is fuel enough to keep her going for an extra 5 or more hours. We've called her The Incredible No Sleeping Baby since she was tiny. I take consolation in the fact that my 7-year-old sleeps wonderfully! Hopefully we'll get DD there, too.

[elfgivas]

fwiw, we have 4 dds. we are a sun-up, sun-down family. only one got up in the middle of the night as a child (as did i). however, if no lights go on, that is her call. if lights go on, i wake up and put her back to bed. my mom used to leave oatmeal cookies by my bedside for me to eat when i woke up. that worked pretty well, too.... but i was up in the night pretty regularly until i was a teen. and i am now again, too. same rules: no lights, must go back and lie down and wait to fall asleep.... sometimes its 2 hours later. harder for me to make myself do, but if i turn on the computer, its all over ; ).

 

they definitely do not get to nap any time after 2pm when they're little, or its all over. me, neither.

 

i'd really vote for you imposing the schedule and expectations and just wait for it to work. it takes 21 consecutive days to change a habit, which means a few more than that typically as somewhere around day 3-7, someone falls off the wagon.

 

fwiw,

ann

[Lovedtodeath]

Update: He was asleep at 8:45 PM. Restless and waking me up constantly from about 10:30-12:30, :glare: then up for an hour until about 1:45. Woke up at 7:15.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Do you know why he is restless or wakes up? Is he in pain? Have muscle cramps? Has to get up to go to the bathroom?

 

Carmen - aren't you one of the people who has been diagnosed with the electrodermal testing? I had such hard time sleeping - for years. When I was tested, I was so surprised when the doctor said it indicated trouble with parasites. I was treated and guess what?! I sleep so much better! (Somehow they were interfering with my sleep.) It may not be the same diagnosis for him, but perhaps the Dr. could find a hidden reason behind the trouble sleeping.

[CanaryMelody]

Subbing to this thread because all my children are night owls. And I have trouble adjusting my own body clock. I have always been a night owl. 6 years in the military working nights reinforced this. Now everyone but hubby are night owls. We REALLY need to all adjust our schedules but each time I've tried, we've failed.

[Entropymama]

My ideal is for me to be up at 8, Emily to be up at 8:45, Jake to be up at 9:45

 

That seems pretty late to rise to me, maybe a late night isn't bad? My kids go to bed between 8 and 9 but they're up at 6:30. If I wanted them to sleep until almost 10 I'd have to keep them up until 10:30.

[Lovedtodeath]

Do you know why he is restless or wakes up? Is he in pain? Have muscle cramps? Has to get up to go to the bathroom?

 

Carmen - aren't you one of the people who has been diagnosed with the electrodermal testing? I had such hard time sleeping - for years. When I was tested, I was so surprised when the doctor said it indicated trouble with parasites. I was treated and guess what?! I sleep so much better! (Somehow they were interfering with my sleep.) It may not be the same diagnosis for him, but perhaps the Dr. could find a hidden reason behind the trouble sleeping.

Getting him tested again is an idea. Thanks.

 

We went to the zoo this morning. Heading home by the time we would normally get there, yeah!