Any recommendations regarding the book, Ender's Game

[jpklehm]

My 12 1/2 year old ds who is finishing 6th grade, is interested in reading Ender's Game and quite possibly the rest of the series (Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind) by Orson Scott Card.

 

My son has told me a bit about it but since I've never heard of this series before, I would like to have some insight before we borrow it from the library.

Anyone read it, or have a child who has read it, that can give me a thumbs up or down...or at least some information about it?

 

Anything would be appreciated! Thanks.

Pam

[Aoife]

my DH has read it I'll go ask him brb :)

 

Dh loved the book and he thought for the most part that it would be fine for a 12yo boy. The only complaint he has heard was that some thought it was a touch homo-erotic but he didn't agree but again it does depend on the maturity of the 12yo.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Aoife

[AngieW in Texas]

Ender's Game is excellent and I think 12yo is a fine time to read it. I'd wait on the rest of the books though. The others went way downhill anyway.

[Kirch]

I've read it and enjoyed it. You can read the wikipedia summary here.

 

I'm not sure about a 12 yo . . . it might depend on how sensitive/easily disturbed he is. The book has some things in it that remind me of Lord of the Flies--the boys are thrown into a situation with very little adult input and have to hammer out their own pecking order, complete with the bullying and abuse that goes with it. There are some heavy psychological things going on, too. I'd really suggest that you read it first. For an older teen I don't think it would be an issue, but there's a world of difference between 12 and 15 or 16.

[Tohru]

I actually just finished reading this yesterday. :D I'm on a Sci-Fi kick.

 

Is there any reason why your 12yo wants to read it?

 

After telling my 13yo ds about the book, he does NOT want to read it. Some of the issues that are prevalent are quite disturbing, such as lack of parental love - both toward parents and from parents, abuse from an older sibling, murder threats by the older sibling, abuse from peers, some anti-semitism, disturbing imagery, and politics. The protagonist justifies his violence calling them acts of self-protection, however he does not evolve into a better person. He kills a 6yo when he is 6. He kills a 14yo when he is 7. Pretty disturbing. Anyway, he does not become a good person, rather the protagonist becomes cynical and non-trusting. There is a lot of deceit throughout the entire story. Some of the taunting and language would probably be over your 12yo's head, but still, it is there.

 

The end message is good, however it takes a lot to muddle through to get to the end and overall, it is a bit of a political statement. There aren't any sexual issues, but the other points might be a little too mature for a 12yo. However, you know your son best, so the book might be fine for him.

 

Another option instead of Ender's Game would be Wizard of Earthsea. I also recently read that and Dune. Both were very good. My 13yo son read Wizard of Earthsea and enjoyed it. It was very satisfying. Loved the lessons the protagonist learned.

[Tohru]

I read the Wikipedia article:

 

Kessel reasons that Card justifies Ender's righteous rage and violence: "Ender gets to strike out at his enemies and still remain morally clean. Nothing is his fault."

 

Exactly. This is the protagonist. I could not have stated it any better. He doesn't become a better person in the story, he just gets worse and does not take responsibility for any of his actions.

[jpklehm]

Thank you, jadedone80. I read the Wikipedia, as well, and wasn't happy with what I read. My son learned about Ender from two brothers, both hsed, who said they loved it and that he should read it. One is older than he is by a year or two, and the other brother is younger, again by a year or two. He had forgotten about this book until he heard me answer a question about it from a friend whose son is supposed to read it this summer before starting high school in the fall (ps).

 

This is exactly the information I was looking for, from others who had read it. Thank you, everyone!

 

I wil get him Wizard of Earthsea and the other one mentioned as part of his summer reading past time, instead.

 

Again, thank you all for your input! :001_smile:

 

Pam

[Veritaserum]

Ender's Game is one of my favorite books. It does have some pretty violent (and sometimes vulgar) stuff in it, though, so you'd probably want to pre-read it or read it with your son.

 

The other books in the series may not be as interesting to your son. They pick up the story when Ender is an adult.

 

I have a totally different take on Ender than some of the other posters. He does not like hurting people or killing. He actually has compassion for his enemies and feels terrible when he's forced to defend himself. Ender was chosen instead of Peter (the older brother) or Valentine (his sister) because Peter has no compassion and Valentine has too much. Ender's ability to feel deeply is ultimately what destroys him mentally. He is a tragic character.

 

Ender's Game is not a book that lends itself to a neat summary. Before you pass judgment, you really need to read it for yourself.

[jpklehm]

Point taken...I'll do just that. Besides, with all the discussion about this book, I am now substantially curious. I'll read it first and see what I think.

 

Thanks again for all the input. :)

 

Pam

[Tohru]

My summary was specifically in response to the OP asking whether any one thought it was appropriate for her 12yo to read, not whether adults liked the book or not. I am actually still digesting the book and haven't decided whether I like it or not yet. It is a well written novel and definitely very believable. The author has talent.

 

Some of the imagery is a bit harsh, especially for children that might be sensitive. For example, the older brother peels back the squirrel's skin while it was alive and staked it to a tree just to nonchalantly watch it die proves an excellent point about the character, however the image is a bit over the edge and I know that my son would not want that floating around in his thoughts.

 

A small 6yo child breaking another child's arm, killing another child...injuring testicles, fracturing ribs, busting noses, gouging out eyeballs, maggots eating flesh...these are just a few examples of the disturbing images that are in the book.

 

Some kids are fine with that and can take it as part of the story, however my 13yo son, at his age, tends to identify with the protagonist and does not care for much violence. Perhaps he might want to read it when he is older, but he was not interested in it now.

 

It is definitely a classic Sci-Fi, just as the other books I mentioned. However this one and Dune I would wait until the kids are older before I gave it to them.

[Tohru]

Thank you, jadedone80. I read the Wikipedia, as well, and wasn't happy with what I read. My son learned about Ender from two brothers, both hsed, who said they loved it and that he should read it. One is older than he is by a year or two, and the other brother is younger, again by a year or two. He had forgotten about this book until he heard me answer a question about it from a friend whose son is supposed to read it this summer before starting high school in the fall (ps).

 

This is exactly the information I was looking for, from others who had read it. Thank you, everyone!

 

I wil get him Wizard of Earthsea and the other one mentioned as part of his summer reading past time, instead.

 

Again, thank you all for your input! :001_smile:

 

Pam

 

Hi Pam,

 

If his homeschool friends already read it, perhaps you could read it with him, even if it might not be something you would want him to read now. At least then he would know what his friends were talking about when/if they made references to the book and he would have your input on the sensitive points in the story. Just my thoughts...

[joannqn]

I read it when I was around 12/13 and loved it then, but my parents didn't censor anything I read. I recently reread it and loved it again, though I definitely got more out of it. It is definitely an adult level book when you consider the themes. Kids will get it on a more surface level.

 

I was going to read this book out loud to my kids but couldn't. I couldn't bring myself the more violent and vulgar parts out loud (I can read it but don't like to say it). However, my kids begged to read it for themselves and I caved. Both of them loved the book. My mature, gets adult things, 10 year old definitely got more out of it than my 8 year old. Both went on to read Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide. Dd got bored with the story line but DS8 is working on Children of the Mind.

 

Kids can like this story but for those who worry about content, I'd say this is definitely more adult work.

[MIch elle]

They are 13 & 16 yob's; they are more than half way through the book. He says it moves slowly and it is a dark, depressing book; it's just OK.

 

 

My dh enjoys sci-fi as do our boys. He recommends Journey to the Center of the Earth and Fantastic Voyage.

Edited June 17, 2010 by MIch elle

[Chris in VA]

Wow.

I let dd10 read this last week b/c my sil loved it, and I usually trust her judgement on books--but she doesn't know dd read it.

 

I have just received a very good lesson on why to pre-read.

 

Skinning a squirrel and watching it die for fun?

[Lorax]

My husband and I both love Ender's Game and recently read it aloud to my 9-year old dd. She really enjoyed it and it made for some great conversations. Yes, there is violence, but it is not gratuitous and makes sense in the context of the story. We chose not to read the others at this point, because Ender is an adult and the themes are more adult.

[Crimson Wife]

I actually just read Ender in Exile about a month ago, and that book deals primarily with Ender's guilt over killing the two kids (he didn't realize at the time that they had died) plus the extermination of the formics. So he's no remorseless sociopath. In battle, it's kill-or-be-killed.

 

I didn't like the original sequels(Speaker for the Dead, etc.) but I really liked the recent ones (Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, etc.) They were more of true sequels IMHO as they dealt with what happened to the kids from Battle School after the Formic War ended.

 

I think I'd be fine with my kids reading the Ender books at 12 or 13. There isn't any sex or bad language (Orson Scott Card is Mormon after all).

[vonfirmath]

I've read it and enjoyed it. You can read the wikipedia summary here.

 

I'm not sure about a 12 yo . . . it might depend on how sensitive/easily disturbed he is. The book has some things in it that remind me of Lord of the Flies--the boys are thrown into a situation with very little adult input and have to hammer out their own pecking order, complete with the bullying and abuse that goes with it. There are some heavy psychological things going on, too. I'd really suggest that you read it first. For an older teen I don't think it would be an issue, but there's a world of difference between 12 and 15 or 16.

 

We read Lord of the Flies in 7th grade, in PS. And I'd MUCH rather have read Ender's Game. I love the ending of Ender's Game, and the "Pushing through" of it. Yes, it may not be appropriate for the sensitive (I did not find the series until later) but Lord of the FLies has some yucky stuff in it too!

 

I also like most of the sequels to Ender's Game (particularly the Bean series) Orson Scott Card is Mormon and his values come through clearly in his writing.

[Veritaserum]

Wow.

I let dd10 read this last week b/c my sil loved it, and I usually trust her judgement on books--but she doesn't know dd read it.

 

I have just received a very good lesson on why to pre-read.

 

Skinning a squirrel and watching it die for fun?

 

Yes, you probably should have pre-read it, but (again) the squirrel scene is NOT presented as a good thing. It is one of the many examples of why Peter is horrible.

 

If your child is sensitive, then it could be very disturbing (as could the violence throughout the whole book). I would feel fine about my 10yo reading it, but she isn't one to get overly worked up about scary/disturbing things in stories....

[jpklehm]

Thank you all for your comments and input. My son likes sci-fi but we've never had to worry about the books he's wanted to read up until now (they've all been appropriate for his age). Now that he's getting older, this will be something his dad and I will have to discuss.

 

He and I read aloud almost every night (we're having fun with the Myth-O-Mania books right now...very simple and funny) so Ender's Game will come up again, I'm sure, but in a year or two. Right now, for my son, I'm just not comfortable with the content. But again, this will change soon, as he's getting older and wanting to explore more. :001_unsure:

 

Thanks again, everyone!!

Pam

[Pippen]

I've read both Ender's Game and The Wizard of Earthsea and I think if you have a child that is easily disturbed, neither of these books are for you. Ender's Game has the aspects mentioned but I share Veritaserum's take on it and think the scenario the author created was fascinating. I also like the WOE but the other/under world creatures are very dark--I remember once feeling pretty creeped out while reading The Tombs of Atuan in the middle of the night.

 

I think I'd be fine with my kids reading the Ender books at 12 or 13. There isn't any sex or bad language (Orson Scott Card is Mormon after all).

 

 

So is the Stepenie Meyer, and the Twilight series has plenty of sexuality/sex. Orson Scott Card's Enchantment has a bit too.

[Crimson Wife]

So is the Stepenie Meyer, and the Twilight series has plenty of sexuality/sex.

 

I haven't read the Twilight series, but I thought that there wasn't any sex until Book 4 after Bella married Edward? :confused: I've heard them criticized as too old-fashioned when it came to things like gender roles...

[Aoife]

DSD's mom let her start reading the twilight series last year:glare: IMHO it has a very unhealthy portrayal of girls and relationships. That and there does not need to be explicit mentioning of sex for it to be sexual. The sexual tension in the books and movies is too much for someone in the preteen age group. I have not read enders game but I trust DH with his opinion and would base it off that and the child's maturity level. For instance my 12DSD is VERY immature and sensitive to a lot of things so I would stay away from more mature topics with her for sure.

[mommyofthree]

It depends on the sensitivity of the child.

 

My 12ds found it very disturbing. He has decided not to read the rest of the series.

[jpklehm]

My ds12 and I compromised at the library today and borrowed the Wizard of Earthsea series instead of Ender's Game. He's not completely happy with the decision, but I mentioned a few things to him and told him he could read it in a year or so. Perhaps summer reading for next year!

 

What has become clear to me is that I need to read more. I love reading but don't make it a priority unless we're on vacation or unless someone tells me of a great book. This will change.

 

Such a terrific discussion here; thanks again!

 

Pam

[Lori D.]

SCI-FI

- City of Ember; People of Sparks; The Diamond of Darkhold (DuPrau)

- Wrinkle in Time; Wind in the Door; Swiftly Tilting Planet(L'Engle) -- but NOT the 4th book "Many Waters" -- adult themes; not well written)

- The Green Book (Walsh)

- Enchantress from the Stars (Engdahl) -- fantasy AND sci-fi

- House of Stairs (Sleator) -- PREVIEW FIRST

- The Bromeliad Trilogy: Truckers; Diggers; Wings (Pratchett)

- The Giver (Lowry)

- The Time Machine; War of the Worlds (Wells)

- When the Tripods Came; The White Mountains; City of Gold & Lead; Pool of Fire (Christopher) -- TOTAL FLUFF, but fun sci-fi based on War of the Worlds by HG Wells

- Around the World in 80 Days; Journey to the Center of the Earth; 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (Verne)

- R is for Rocket (Bradbury)

- The Martian Chronicles (Bradbury)

- I, Robot (Asimov)

- Foundation (Asimov)

- Dune (Herbert) -- PREVIEW FIRST

- Out of the Silent Planet (Lewis) -- I would WAIT on book 2 and 3 of the trilogy (Perelandra; That Hideous Strength); adult themes!

 

 

FANTASY

- Chronicles of Narnia (Lewis)

- Alice's Adventures in Wonderland; Through the Looking Glass (Carroll)

- Half Magic; Magic by the Lake, Knight's Castle; Time Garden; Seven Day Magic (Eager)

- Five Children and It; The Phoenix and the Carpet; The Amulet; The Book of Dragons (Nesbit)

- The Hobbit (Tolkien) -- "prequil" to Lord of the Rings

- Lord of the Rings (Tolkien) -- trilogy

- Father Giles of Ham (Tolkien) -- short story

- Children of Hurin (Tolkien) -- like a Greek myth crossed with Beowulf

- The Secret of Platform 13 (Ibbotson) -- a gentler, kinder type of Harry Potter story

- Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (Fleming)

- The Phantom Tollbooth (Juster)

- The Rumpelstiltskin Problem (Velde) -- short and funny; 6 different spins on the traditional fairytale

- The Never Ending Story (Ende)

- The Great and Terrible Quest (Lovett)

- Wizard of Earthsea; Tombs of Atuan; The Farthest Shore (Le Guin) -- but NOT the 4th book "Tehanu" -- adult themes!!

- Below the Root; And All Between; Until the Celebration (Snyder) -- a bit of a utopian society

- The Reluctant Dragon (Grahame) -- short and very fun

- Percy Jackson and the Olympians series (Riordan) -- definitely a "popcorn" series

 

 

ADVENTURE - CLASSICS

- Rikki Tikki Tavi (Kipling)

- The Jungle Book (Kipling)

- Call of the Wild (London)

- Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Twain)

- Merry Adventures of Robin Hood (and others by Howard Pyle)

- The Count of Monte Cristo (Dumas)

- Ivanhoe (Scott)

- Ben Hur (Wallace)

- The Sword in the Stone (White) -- the first of 4 books that make up "The Once and Future King", all about King Arthur -- I would on the other 3 books, as they get into adult Arthur and the affair between Guinevere and Lancelot

 

 

ADVENTURE - ANIMALS

- The Rescuers, Miss Bianca, Miss Bianca in the Orient (Sharpe) -- very fun; well-written!

- Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH (O'Brien)

- Redwall series (Jacques)

- Watership Down (Adams)

 

 

ADVENTURE - PEOPLE

- The Wolves of Willoughby Chase (Aiken) -- a favorite!

- Island of the Blue Dolphins; The King's Fifth (O'Dell)

- Black Ships Before Troy; The Wanderings of Odysseus (Sutcliffe)

- Little Britches (Moody)

- Five on a Treasure Island (Blyton)

- The Golden Goblet (McGraw) -- Ancient Egypt

- The Great and Terrible Quest (Lovett)

- The Master Puppeteer (Paterson) - 1700s Japan

- Midshipman Quinn series (Styles)

 

 

DETECTIVE/MYSTERY ADVENTURE

- Samurai mystery series (Hoobler)

- Case of the... Baker Street Irregular; Threatened King; Vanishing Corpse; Somerville Secret; (Newman)

- The Westing Game (Raskin)

- The Ides of April (Ray)

- minute mystery collections by Sobol; Conrad; Weber; Sukach; Obriest; and others

- Hercule Poirot short story mysteries (Christie)

- Father Brown short story mysteries (Chesterton)

- Sherlock Holmes short story mysteries (Doyle)

 

 

FUN TALL TALE

- Holes (Sachar)

- The Twenty-One Balloons (DuBois)

Edited June 17, 2010 by Lori D.
added info

[Capt_Uhura]

Thanks Lori D.!

[jpklehm]

Yes, thanks, Lori D!

 

Pam

[Terabith]

LOVE LOVE LOVE all these books! I would have NO problems with a 12 year old reading them. They make for really excellent discussions too, if you wanted to read them.

 

I love Orson Scott Card.

[AuntPol]

I think I'd be fine with my kids reading the Ender books at 12 or 13. There isn't any sex or bad language (Orson Scott Card is Mormon after all).

 

There is bad language in it (S word and Bast-- word) but none of it is spoken by someone portrayed as "good."

 

I let my 9 yo read it, with discussion it with me. However, I don't think it appropriate for "most" 9 yo's. I do think "most" 12 yo's could handle it.

[WTMCassandra]

I wouldn't read it too young, but I think there are a LOT worse things people could read than Ender's Game! And I am very picky with books. My children won't read it until they are at least 16, but I was thrilled when one of my public school tutoring students picked it. And why, you ask? ; ) The book has depth, is thought-provoking, and gives excellent fodder for discussion, unlike many modern, vapid, shallow books. For a modern book, I was impressed.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Ender's Game is a good book and I think it is appropriate for young teens. My DS's book club is reading it as a group next year. I would hold off on the rest of the series for a while. I didn't pre-read the series (they were recommended by someone I trusted) and I really wish I would have. Some of the topics and attitudes are a bit much for children.

[RootAnn]

I didn't read these until I was in college & beyond. I like the series & really like Card's series on the women of Genesis (Sarah, Rebecca, etc.).

 

I would say that the previous posters have brought up some good points & you know your children best. What is appropriate for one's mature 12 yo isn't necessarily appropriate for someone else's sensitive 15 yo. (Seriously!)

 

I enjoyed reading Ender's Shadow after reading Ender's Game & discussing the two books in tandem. With some difference in beginnings (because it is from two different character's points of view), it goes over some of the same events from completely different character's views. I wouldn't read either aloud to my sensitive young ones. I am looking forward to some time when my kids will read both and we can discuss them. My oldest (dd8) could probably handle the reading level, but I wouldn't have her read them until she's older (12 might still be too young, we'll see).

[Mama Lynx]

My ds12 and I compromised at the library today and borrowed the Wizard of Earthsea series instead of Ender's Game. He's not completely happy with the decision, but I mentioned a few things to him and told him he could read it in a year or so. Perhaps summer reading for next year!

 

What has become clear to me is that I need to read more. I love reading but don't make it a priority unless we're on vacation or unless someone tells me of a great book. This will change.

 

Such a terrific discussion here; thanks again!

 

Pam

 

I wish I'd seen your question earlier! Ender's Game is one of Connor's and Aidan's favorite books.

 

I read it first, and I admit to having qualms when Connor read it at age 12. I probably would have held off a bit longer, but Jeff was in favor of him reading it. Connor is not easily disturbed, and he handled the book very well.

 

It was the violence that gave me pause, more than anything. However, it is an excellent book, and whenever he does read it, C and A would be thrilled to talk to him about it.

 

A Wizard of Earthsea is a great choice in the meantime :)