When females 'friendships' go sour

[MagistraMichelle]

I lost a friend a couple years ago over the way a situation was handled. It was a painful loss indeed.

 

I have seen it over and over. Women become friends, then later the friendship goes sour. Usually both sides are hurt and feel betrayed. I am not saying every friendship ends like that, but that it happens way too often. I have friends that I have known and loved most of my life. But, I have lost some friends I cared deeply about, sometimes for an unknown reason and sometimes because of a disagreement.

 

I just don't see this in males friendships. In fact, rarely if ever can I recall this happening. Is it because men don't put their heart and soul into friendships like women??? I don't even think it is that. But they just don't take things to heart the way women do?

 

I don't know. It perplexes me though.:confused:

 

What are others thoughts on this?

 

Michelle

[hornblower]

I've btdt several times now.

 

It's taught me to be very very careful.

 

Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue a lot (this is such a hard lesson for me. I'm even more opinionated & obnoxious IRL than online :lol:)& maybe put a bit of distance in between you. After a few years, the issues which were driving a wedge b/n you, might be gone or just no longer as important & the friendship can resume. Or maybe the friendship will just kind of cool.

 

Dh says it's b/e women talk too much, share too much, invest too much.

[Purpledaizy]

I had a very close friendship end in an especially painful way a few years ago. I was devastated to the point of needing counseling. This friend and I had been close for nearly 10 years. We shared everything near and dear to our souls. Without going into detail, she became overly involved in a family matter and, IMO, overstepped her bounds. The relationship went sour after that. I felt violated and horribly betrayed. Thinking about her still upsets me. I think that women do invest more in their relationships with other women than men do with their "buddies."

[ciyates]

I have learned a lot recently from a group of women who genuinely love one another, have gone through major strife but still manage to work it out. The only thing different from them and everyone else is that their community is so small they are forced to work it out. It is amazing how forgiving and understanding youcan be when you are forced to. :D

[cathmom]

My dh has had friendships go sour, as you say. One of them was with a friend who was supposed to be the best man at our wedding. Another was a friend who married one of my friends, which basically meant the end of my friendship too (although they have since divorced and we have reconnected).

[Guest FiveLittleMonkeys10]

I really do think that women invest more time in their relationships than men do. I remember in high school, when me and my now husband met, he could easily leave his friends to hang out with me, but my friends really took it to heart and I always felt torn.

 

I'm not saying *all* men and *all* women apply to this, but most do.

[Danestress]

I have never had a big argument as an adult with a sister or a friend. I honestly can't imagine.

 

But my sisters and I are careful with each other. We don't say whatever we think. We don't criticize each other. We treat our relationships like something that could be fragile if handled roughly. And probably there are hurt feelings that get sort of swallowed and defused over time.

 

I'm probably the same with friends. Maybe I share less or am less close, but I think it's also that my family was one where people gave each other space and were just careful. Really, no matter how close you are to someone, you have to treat the relationship as something that can be damaged if not treated with respect. You have to respect that relationship and when trouble brews, you take it up like a special piece of china and put it on a shelf where it won't get hurt, if you truly value it.

 

I think women instinctively know this with men. We don't say whatever we think even to our husbands, because we know we might regret saying something hurtful and we may not even think it in the morning - feelings pass. But I think women actually disrespect each other in this way and mistake transparency for intimacy, so they say too much and hurt one another. Then they are shocked by the hurt and feel disappointment that is unreasonable. They feel truly upset by any conflict, when they maybe should just expect some conflict and be ready to divert it. Maybe that's not right, but that's the way it seems like it can be with other people and their sisters.

 

Maybe? Just my first impressions.

[Peela]

I think it's probably because we share a lot, but not necessarily very skillfully at times. We don't always empathise well or take the other person into consideration. And we can be a bit over sensitive and take offence too easily.

 

I am reading Non Violent Communicaiton by Marshall Rosenburg, and I am realising how unskillful a lot of my communication really is. There are ways to communicate through conflict and differences that most of us have never learned and therefore can't actually access. A whole new paradigm is opening up to me.

 

My dh definitely loses friends at times. He is very outspoken and has no problem speaking his mind and sometimes people take offence. They do usually appreciate and admire him after they lick their wounds, though, and eventually reconnect.

I am much more careful, but recently I did get quite offended with a friend's behaviour toward me- fortunately her communication skills are quite mature and she has managed to keep connecting with me through teh conflict, so our friendship, while different for me, has not been discarded altogether.

 

I think men and women do communicate differently, and women probably communicate from a more emotional place a lot, leaving themselves open to emotional reactions more than men. I think its up to women to learn the communication skills to build friendships and maintain them, including conflict resolution- scary for many of us.

 

On the other hand...there are times when we outgrow a particular friend, and it is just time to move on, and sometimes something like an argument may be a catalyst for that. Hanging onto a friendship that no longer serves, that drains or is too one way, is not so good either.

[Mom-ninja.]

I was starting to think it was just me. I've had several friendships end in the past 9 years.

 

In two cases I stopped allowing myself to be pushed around. I tend to go with the flow a lot and unfortunately that has set me up to being taken advantage of.

 

In the most recent ended friendship, my friend literally changed. I do believe that she is now suffering from a mental illness. The situation she created was going to put my family in danger so I pulled out. I'm very sad but I can't help her. My family has to come first.

[DarlaS]

Dh says it's b/e women talk too much, share too much, invest too much.

 

He could be on to something. I have lots of really good acquaintances, and like it that way. My family keeps me too busy to really invest in friendships like I had back before marriage & kids.

 

I'm also not easily offended and I don't get people who are. My friendship mantra, if I were to have one, would be: Please listen to what I say--not what you think I mean--and I'll do the same for you. Lots of friendships would last longer that way. :tongue_smilie:

[justamouse]

I agree that women invest too much, but I'd also say men don't invest enough. My husband has wonderful lifelong friends, but I'm the one that tells him, "He's hurting and this is why and you need to reach out to him." Otherwise, Dh would keep his yap shut and watch his friend suffer.

 

Balance.

[Guest ToGMom]

I'm just getting over the loss of a friend...I would be happy to mend the relationship *IF* she would "come to the table" to talk about what happened, but she won't...she refuses...she's right and I'm wrong. (in her mind)

 

I'm now finding out that this woman has a HUGE history of "burning bridges" and she admitted to a friend of mine the other night that she has trouble getting close (and staying close) to people -- she usually ends up doing something that ruins the relationship. She went on to say that it's just not in her makeup to try to repair relationships -- she would rather walk away.

 

I find this incredibly sad...:001_huh:

[Sweetpeach]

I'm in Hornblower's camp . . . and I've learned to bite my tongue with women who mean so much to me. We're all a work in progress.

 

I'm exceptionally careful with who I let into my world . . . and that's a skill I've had to learn over the past years. Boundaries are key for me. I'm sometimes pursued by women, especially church friends, who have expectations of me that I can't meet. In my before-boundaries life, I did my best to keep everyone happy, which left me feeling resentful and angry.

 

I haven't had any crash-and-burns in the past three years, simply because I'm very careful. It took a quite a few tricky situations before I finally got my feet under me in this regard.

 

Drawing boundaries isn't easy, but I've learned not to wear other people's rejection-bits.

 

Painful crash-and-burns with women always teach me lessons about myself that are tough to learn, but certainly have made me more resilient and graceful with myself. Now, if I can learn to manage conflict which arises out of setting careful boundaries, I'll consider myself a true relational champion. :001_smile:

Warmly, Tricia

[tex-mex]

My dh has had friendships go sour, as you say. One of them was with a friend who was supposed to be the best man at our wedding. Another was a friend who married one of my friends, which basically meant the end of my friendship too (although they have since divorced and we have reconnected).

:iagree: Dh was deeply betrayed by a friend that ran close to slander and libel. Dh also cut off communication to a very close friend who ended up lying to us and ended up running off with most of our nest egg $$ (a la "mini" Madoff investment). The friend could not see blame in his part on it and could not understand why we ended the friendship. I turned his name over to the authorities -- a big legal mess. As a result, Dh is leery of reaching out to other men in friendship. He is kind of bitter about the frailities of man. He has been burnt once too many times.

Edited May 29, 2010 by tex-mex

[momof4boys]

I think we just get deeply involved and are not sure of how to extract ourselves just a bit, it seems to be all or nothing sometimes.

[Desert Rat]

My dh and his best friend have a relationship that is starting to sour. It's so sad to see. He was our best man 16 years ago. They have both changed. We had children and settled down. He's married but not settled at all. They have different ideas of right and wrong in business practices and lately, that has become a huge problem.

It's not just girls, although I agree with the OP that girls get our feelings hurt and let them stay hurting. I've lost my share of friendships.

[3lilreds in NC]

You know, it's interesting. I like to think that, as adults, we can work through tough times in relationships, but it's not always true, is it?

 

I had one friend that stopped talking to me a few years ago, and I never did learn why. We had children the same age and would have weekly playdates, mostly at her house, because she was allergic to my cats. I went on summer vacation, and when we came back and I got back in touch with her, she didn't want to get together anymore. No explanations - just nothing. We didn't talk on the phone; it's not like she just didn't want to do the playdates anymore. Our kids went to the same preschool and she would sometimes acknowledge that she knew me, but only when there was no other choice. She was always pleasant, but it was bizarre. It took me a long time to let go of the need to know WHY. Really, I have no clue. I have guesses, but that's all.

 

I have another friend who at one time was my best friend, and I think will always be treasured. (She didn't have a job for a long time, because of a bad back, and she's never had children. Now she's back to being a lawyer and very busy. It's not that we don't still love each other, we're just on very different paths.) She and I have had our moments of disagreement and hurt feelings, but she's an excellent communicator and makes sure we talk things through. She is a tremendous blessing to me. When we've had things happen, I have thought, "That's it, we won't be friends anymore," and it doesn't work out that way.

 

I used to be more interested in talking to people when I knew things weren't going well. Then, I think, I ended up with some very toxic people in my life who are incapable of rational communication, and that colored my view on all relationships. (I am in the process of reevaluating this, because I certainly don't want to live my life by their rules.) Now, I think, I am less willing to let people in too close. Most people don't really want to be close friends, at least by my definition, so it's not too hard. I miss having close friends, though. I'm really feeling the lack now that we've moved and I am starting over again.

[teachermom2834]

I lost a best friend a few years ago and it was awful. It took me years to get over it and I still hurt over it sometimes. I really should have sought some sort of counseling to help me work through it. It really had me very depressed for a long time.

 

I think what happened in our case is that women can become so, so close that they start to think they can say anything to each other. Which they can't. Husbands, kids, etc. are off limits for anything but gushing praise. It seems like common sense but I think you can get so deep into "love" with your close friend that you forget that sometimes. There were some other issues that went on in ours but I think we both we able to be hurt by comments made by the other.

 

In our case we have tried to piece it back together and I am happy that we are still friends. We'll get the kids together to play or go out to breakfast just the two of us 5-6 times a year. It isn't the same level of intensity but I think we both try to be careful with each other.

 

She seems to call me when she has something she really wants to talk about but not so much for fun. In the early years of this I would have been hurt by that. Now, I'm just glad she calls me at all and we'll just keep working at it.

 

Sorry to have rambled on so. I never would have believed that a friendship could cause me the pain this one has and affect me as a person the way this has. I definitely was too emotionally involved.

[unsinkable]

I'm just getting over the loss of a friend...I would be happy to mend the relationship *IF* she would "come to the table" to talk about what happened, but she won't...she refuses...she's right and I'm wrong. (in her mind)

 

I'm now finding out that this woman has a HUGE history of "burning bridges" and she admitted to a friend of mine the other night that she has trouble getting close (and staying close) to people -- she usually ends up doing something that ruins the relationship. She went on to say that it's just not in her makeup to try to repair relationships -- she would rather walk away.

 

I find this incredibly sad...:001_huh:

 

Mending relationships & overtures...

 

I had a friendship end when my friend emailed me that she wanted absolutely nothing to do with me ever again. So I didn't respond... Then 2 days later, I saw her out somewhere and she asked me if I still wasn't talking to her. :confused:

 

ETA: I would bet your "burning bridges" friend might have had a troubled childhood, maybe abusive parents? I know that can be a pattern.

Edited May 29, 2010 by unsinkable

[unsinkable]

:iagree: Dh was deeply betrayed by a friend that ran close to slander and libel. Dh also cut off communication to a very close friend who ended up lying to us and ended up running off with most of our nest egg $$ (a la "mini" Madoff investment). The friend could not see blame in his part on it and could not understand why we ended the friendship. I turned his name over to the authorities -- a big legal mess. As a result, Dh is leery of reaching out to other men in friendship. He is kind of bitter about the frailities of man. He has been burnt once too many times.

 

I remember you mentioning this situation before.

 

I would venture to guess that "man" was never truly your DH's friend. He sounds like a user.

 

I am so sorry you all went thru this. :grouphug:

[Hedgehogs4]

btdt several times. most cases were my fault...i tended to have expectations of a relationship that another person simply couldn't meet. a pp said that women "invest too much" and that was me. i had problems knowing where my boundaries were, so i would both cross and be crossed by the the other person. it was very painful.

 

i have grown so much in this area with the Lord's help, and now i have three very healthy, thriving friendships with women. The key is not to share too much when it's not necessary, and just listen and not offer opinions unless the other person asks for it. it has to happen slowly, over time, allow trust to build. you need a cache of experiences, and memories, combined with intermittent visits and times of sharing.

 

i think you can just know who your friends are. there doesn't have to be a lot of analysis. it just happens, and you can't take it for granted or have any expectations.

[lllll]

..

[Harriet Vane]

BTDT :grouphug:

[3peasinapod]

I have had a friendship die for 6 months, but reunited after, but on a much less scale. I was totally befuddled, as I don't know what I did or if I did anything at all. I never did share a lot with her, as I am very, very cautious, but she shared so much with me that I was often overwhelmed. I ranged from saying nothing at all and just listening to telling her she was wrong, but tried to keep an evenness to it all. My heart still constricts when I think about it. I have asked her what happened, but she just says she doesn't know.

[JWSJ]

Just think about these boards. Try to imagine what a hs board populated by mostly dads would look like. I would guess, once again, it would get very little traffic.

 

LOL! As a dad, those were my exact thoughts.

 

However, the car forum I visit gets lots of traffic. But, no guy ever got upset over someone else's car.

[Tohru]

Try to imagine what a hs board populated by mostly dads would look like. I would guess, once again, it would get very little traffic.

 

lol! I was in a forum conversation with women last night and complaining to my dh because I got so upset. He told me on his game forum when some one gets mad, there is a bunch of name calling and then they get over it and move on.

 

This thread is fantastic though, really. I find that I have a hard time maintaining female friendships for more than a few years because something always happens. Mostly over misunderstandings or jealousy in one form or another. I hate that it happens and after all these years still can't figure out why it does... We moved a lot when I was a child (military brat) and maybe it's just ingrained to push people away after a set number of years because it was less painful as a kid when the move came. I wish I knew how to change the pattern and keep friends for life.

 

And then of course, there are those you feel like you can be yourself around and then there are those that you hold back or feel the need to conform.

Edited May 30, 2010 by jadedone80

[Dooley]

It is so wonderful to see that I am not alone. I recently told dh that I felt the Lord was breaking me, taking me apart in such a way as to change the things about me that were harmful. I had a old relationship end last summer, she said mean things, I asked why, she refused to talk with me - I spent about 6 months trying to get her to agree to talk with me, or email me or something....she would rather walk away. I have had two neighbors go postal on me and I do not know (in the second neighbor) how in the world I was at fault. She came to our house and picked a fight, now I am the bad guy and we have not spoken in about 8 months.

 

I always felt something was wrong with ME, as I was the common denominator. Maybe I am not so messed up (well I might be, but lets just gather the wagons in a circle and pretend I am not :)!

 

Anyway, I have been thinking about exactly how I should respond to women who get closer to me than the average acquaintance. I probably should keep a distance and treat each one as a treasure, as a poster mentioned before. I have decided not to exert my "rights", but to listen with love and understanding, and keep myself out of stuff. Even to my detriment. Though if anything involves my kids/husband - I will go to the carpet for them!

 

This thread has been a balm for me today. Thank you.