The new "no freebies" rule

[BMW]

So, recently in a counseling session dh and I were counseled on the "no freebies" rule. That means if I come in tired and cranky and slam a door, it is wrong. You don't say, "It's okay, you are tired and cranky." You say, "Excuse me, that is wrong and you need to not act that way." This is just an example... so to speak... If someone in the house is sick, they do not have permission to be slam the door... or throw something across the room... The way it was explained was, if you excuse the behavior because the person is sick... or tired... or hungry... or sleepy, you have just given them permission to act out that way again in the future.

 

So, no freebies.

 

I give compassion, but I correct it anyway. And it goes for everyone. Me included.

 

What prompts this is that I get the concept and I have been implementing it so far. But, when it comes to a strong willed child, it takes on a different flavor.

 

Son, you need to do 12 more math problems. Please focus and get finished. (son is 11)

 

Son then sings... whistles... tosses a shoe at a brother for the purpose of being annoying... swishes some laundry at the brother.

 

Mom says, "You have not made good choices. You are now not going to go out fishing tonight or tomorrow." (son can still play at home, just not go fishing)

 

Son glares. Son says, "You think that matters to me?" He breaks his pencil while having eye contact with mom, on purpose, and throws it on the floor.

 

Mom says he is now on 24 hour restriction for being defiant. Mom waits 3-5 minutes while boy continues to glare... she walks away... gives him space and those few minutes to get over his anger.

 

Mom tells son to pick up his pencil and work on his math. Son stares down mom and glares and refuses to pick up his pencil.

 

Mom walks boy to the corner, puts his nose in the corner and says that when he is ready to obey, to call her and let her know, that he may not glare at her without a consequence.

 

Am I applying "no freebies"? I ask myself would I handle this the same way with any of the other boys... well, I do believe I would, although they generally do not dig in and fight me like this.

 

Oh, and last weekend he missed out on fishing because he took 8-10 hours per school day for just math and had to make up work he didn't do.... I don't get it...

 

I think the counselor wants us using the no freebies rule to make life seem fair to everybody here....

 

What would you do differently?

[Dandelion]

I think the counselor wants us using the no freebies rule to make life seem fair to everybody here....

 

What would you do differently?

 

I can see the logic behind this in principle (i.e. treating everyone the same in order to be fair) and I can certainly understand the desire to be fair. However, I remember reading in several parenting books (and I've read A LOT of them - another mom of a very strong-willed child here ;) ) that it is not always in the best interest of a strong-willed child or his/her siblings to try to parent all your DC the same. They are all different - and you probably need to parent them differently at times because of that. Both your strong-willed child and his siblings are probably quite aware that he's pushing the limits much more than everyone else - so even though he might lament the fact that it's "not fair" that he doesn't get any freebies while the other DC sometimes do, he may very well recognize that it's necessary (although he would probably never admit it if he's anything like my DS!). Applying the same "no freebie" rule to a sibling who is generally very obedient and just has minor and infrequent slip-ups, may make that child become resentful and add to whatever negative dynamics are already going on.

 

I'm certainly not a parenting expert - just another parent who is constantly learning and adjusting and trying to figure out what works... So this is just one perspective.

 

FWIW, I recently read "Transforming the Difficult Chid - The Nurtured Heart Approach" and we've been putting that into practice with DS this past week. Although we have always tried to focus on the positive and provide lots of verbal recognition for good behavior (which is the focus of the first part of the book), the approach to consequences outlined by the author is very different from what we were doing. I was skeptical at first (because it seemed to me like I would be letting DS off much too easy), but I have to say it actually seems to be working. I've seen other posts in this forum recommending the book (which is what prompted me to check it out in the first place). If you haven't already read it/tried it, might be worth a look....

 

HTH! :)

[myfunnybunch]

Sounds fine to me.

 

He was testing your boundaries. You were firm, consistent, followed through and did not make excuses for his behavior.

 

"No freebies" may be for fairness, but it's likely that it helps with consistency by making it clear to everyone that misbehavior has consequences, and will not be excused for tiredness, crankiness, "Idonwanna," orneriness or any other excuse.

 

Cat

[6packofun]

If there were a true "no freebies" rule in our house, then it would have to apply to mom and dad, too, and we need a WHOLE LOTTA grace. LOL KWIM? That said, we do try not to excuse behavior just because one is sick, has her p*riod, had a crummy day, etc. but we also give grace and *back off* of someone who is having it rough and even give short breaks in school action, etc. as we feel is appropriate. I don't think it worsens behavior at all and many times helps the mood.

[BMW]

I read that Transforming the Difficult Child book, too. Funny thing is, with this fella... we can have man GREAT days in a row. He can be awesome. I can do all of those right things and he suddenly turns, digs in and is ready to take me on. It goes in a cycle. He will be great. Then he just gets a "I don't have to, you can't make me" attitude going on... or today's attitude, "I will glare at you because you are being a mean mom" and dig in. Today I kept my voice calm and even sweet. I also required him to apologize and ask for forgiveness, which I could tell was very painful for him to do.

 

Consistency. I think that is what the counselor was after even more than fairness. Consistency is my downfall.

[BMW]

Yes, sixpackoffun, it goes for the parents, too. Our counselor asked us to apply it to each other foremost. Because oftentimes a wife might say or act out the "Oh, he's tired from working all day and is hungry and grumpy, so he can talk to me like that... I understand." And what the wife just did was give him permission to talk down to her whenever he is tired, hungry, etc. Yep, parents included.

[phathui5]

I think losing a fishing trip is a big consequences for being a pain in the arse about doing math.

[BMW]

I agree that it looks like a big consequence... BUT, his dad takes him out fishing regularly... as in 2-3 times per week during the winter/spring months and he had been taking 8-10 hours digging in and refusing to do the work for the entire week... he simply could not go out for any activity until he finished the work that he prolonged. Given that, I think it was a good decision. I wonder more about days where he acts out mouthing off, breaking pencil, throwing it, and glaring at me. I just kept holding my ground... with a smile and firmness.

[OrganicAnn]

The people I know who are 'enablers' that take those freebies to an extreme. I can see the rationale for having the no freebies rule. Thank you for sharing this, it gives me something to think about.

[6packofun]

I guess I was thinking of it as more restrictive to people's personality and temporary stress, etc. than people being actually verbally abusive to one another. Sometimes we just back off with a look like "Excuuuuuse me" from the person who might be a bit snippy and you know, almost all of the time that person apologizes pretty quickly in their own time and it's all good. But I realize that dynamics are different in each family and that could really NOT work for one in which people are perpetually controlling or attacking with words. I see what you mean.

[SonshineLearner]

You could state it with the Love and Logic way.. more of the "kids who finish their math by 5 o'clock on Friday, get to go fishing on Saturday... or whatever :)

[BMW]

That's the next book I am looking forward to getting... Love and Logic. I've heard it referenced here enough to give it a go, too.

[Peela]

So, did your counsellor put it as a rule for consenting adults, as a way of gaining respect for each other in their marriage, or as something the whole family should be doing?

 

I really like that idea for a marriage. (Hey, I am thinking for dh here, not me of course :) )

 

But not so sure I would handle a difficult child the same- and believe me, I have a difficult child, and he does get consequences, and he does do disrespectful things. But I do think "keeping his heart" is important, and when one gets fixated on every transgression, it can easily make a frustrated kid feel he has no outlet and get to the point he doesn't care anymore. I prefer to let a few upset outbursts, immaturely expressed, blow over, and focus on the original issue- as much as possible.

I think the approach of "no freebies" could work in very strict families, but we are middle of the road here, and a swear word or shoe thrown at sibling here and there is not going to raise my blood pressure too often.

 

ETA- I have just realised what bugs me about the rule for kids. When two adults in counselling agree to a rule like that- they are both agreeing to the rule and therefore taking personal responsibility for holding up their side of the bargain, for teh sake of ahealthy marriage. They are agreeig to some personal maturity and growth in saying yes to the concept. Even if reminding each other, there is an implicit undestanding that the other has agreed to the rule.

None of this applies to a parent/child relationship, so I feel it's very different territory.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Peela

[BMW]

Thanks, Peela, I like your thoughts and am glad you shared them with me. I have been thinking about this, too, because I tend to not be ultra strict and was feeling today like... if I am catching every infraction, I am missing a bigger picture... it feels a bit nit picky. BUT, I value this rule with dh and I... it is stopping us in our tracks and helping us respect each other more. I think that the no-freebies with kids may turn out to be a general rule, but on the slightly-almost-nearly-no-freebies side of life.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I read that Transforming the Difficult Child book, too. Funny thing is, with this fella... we can have man GREAT days in a row. He can be awesome. I can do all of those right things and he suddenly turns, digs in and is ready to take me on. It goes in a cycle. He will be great. Then he just gets a "I don't have to, you can't make me" attitude going on... or today's attitude, "I will glare at you because you are being a mean mom" and dig in. Today I kept my voice calm and even sweet. I also required him to apologize and ask for forgiveness, which I could tell was very painful for him to do.

 

Consistency. I think that is what the counselor was after even more than fairness. Consistency is my downfall.

 

Bee - with my difficult 12 year old boy, I need to be extremely consistent too. But also - I need to recognize that there is something that is making him edgy on those difficult days. So, once the consequence has been served - before I've given another task in school that might be balked at - I try to take care of his underlying needs. For my ds that is physical activity. I will send him out for a run around the block once or twice. (Since this has been happening almost everyday around here - I now just have him run every morning before we start school.) It takes care of the underlying anxiety and hormonal stuff that seems to be underlying his difficult days. I don't think that recognizing and taking care of underlying needs is giving a freebie. But it is separate from consequences - which must be served.

[Rosie_0801]

when one gets fixated on every transgression, it can easily make a frustrated kid feel he has no outlet and get to the point he doesn't care anymore.

 

:iagree: That's how I felt as a teen and I wasn't a difficult kid!

 

OP: I'm not usually one who advocates being deliberately rude, since it's so easy to be rude by accident, but sometimes it is worth a shot. Have you tried asking your son why he's being a jerk? Perhaps pull a puzzled face and say "Why are you being such a jerk? I know you weren't born that way! If you have a real problem, out with it and we'll see what we can do. If you don't have a real problem, shut up and do your maths already!" Even if it doesn't work, it might help break the cycle.

 

Rosie

[Laura Corin]

I think it's easy for a child to get stuck into a mood and be unable to change track. Defiance leads to more defiance and the punishments escalate. After the second infringement, I would have said something like, "[son], things seem to be getting out of hand here. Let's have a hug and start over." Then I'd talk him gently through what my expectations were and see if we could get back to a better place. I don't let my children get away with things, but I do try to help them to be good.

 

This technique is helping a lot with teenage mood swings too.

 

Laura

[Renee in NC]

I think it's easy for a child to get stuck into a mood and be unable to change track. Defiance leads to more defiance and the punishments escalate. After the second infringement, I would have said something like, "[son], things seem to be getting out of hand here. Let's have a hug and start over." Then I'd talk him gently through what my expectations were and see if we could get back to a better place. I don't let my children get away with things, but I do try to help them to be good.

 

This technique is helping a lot with teenage mood swings too.

 

Laura

 

Laura, you have a good point here. When my dc "get in a mood" then it *does* escalate. Sometimes the best option is to step back, separate if needed (or hug - depends on the child and the situation), and come back and try again.

 

I tend to set the rule before we even start, so they know the expectations. Some examples:

 

"Your room must be inspected before you go out to play."

"This must be finished before lunch."

"This has to be done today or you'll have to do it later while the others are swimming."

 

This way, the consequences are already known and there is no escalation in the heat of the moment.

[Caribbean Queen]

I am on the stricter side and I would not resign myself to put up with that behavior, especially the shoe throwing. That behavior is disrespectful and will not serve him well in life. Men don't get to express their anger physically. What I mean is, when your son grows up and his boss tells him to do something he doesn't feel like doing, he can't toss his shoe across the room, break an office supply, and talk back. The consequences for men who act that way are much worse than losing a fishing trip.

 

Some may say that unless you let people express their negative feelings with back-talk, hitting, or tantrum-like behavior or whatever, then they will bottle up their feelings and explode. I think the idea is that they *must* throw a tantrum, and it will come out sooner or later - and later it will be worse. I think not. We can control ourselves and that feels better than flipping out. We all can't be "going-off" whenever we get frustrated. Society can't work that way.

 

Starting from toddlerhood, I believe parents need to have their children work on self control so that they have good habits that will serve them well in life. I have been annoyed by many teachers and authority figures telling me to do my work and I didn't throw my shoe because they wouldn't tolerate it. My mother wouldn't tolerate it. I would get in BIG trouble. And you know, I never turned into the Incredible Hulk because I was denied to throw tantrums at 11 years old. I am glad I didn't get a freebie to behave badly because things were set up they way for everybody's good. It is hard for some children to learn self control, but everyone needs to learn it as best they can, whether it is hard for them or not.

 

So I do believe you should be able to give him direction as an authority figure and punishing him for not obeying is totally reasonable. At the same time, I don't think schoolwork has to be such a struggle between the two of you.

 

It sounds like he is trying to show you that you can't make him do his Math. Why not let him win? Yes, you can't make him do his Math. It doesn't need to bother you. Go ahead and let him him sit at the table all the livelong day. That may take the wind out of his sails. In order to act like you don't care how long he takes, you should make sure he understands how to do his work, and let him know he can call you if he has a question, and he must finish by at least X:00 or else he can't go fishing. Then go on about your day. Don't prod him to do his work. Don't stand over him watching to make sure he does it. If he wants to sit there for 10 hours, that is his business. If he doesn't finsh by X:00 you can say nonchallantly, "Oh you aren't done yet. You can put your books away now. You'll finish it tomorrow while your Dad is gone fishing." If he complains say sympathetically, "Gosh, yes, I would feel badly if I sat for 10 hours and didn't finish my work too. You could have been done 7 hours ago."

[KrissiK]

But not so sure I would handle a difficult child the same- and believe me, I have a difficult child, and he does get consequences, and he does do disrespectful things. But I do think "keeping his heart" is important, and when one gets fixated on every transgression, it can easily make a frustrated kid feel he has no outlet and get to the point he doesn't care anymore. I prefer to let a few upset outbursts, immaturely expressed, blow over, and focus on the original issue- as much as possible.

I think the approach of "no freebies" could work in very strict families, but we are middle of the road here, and a swear word or shoe thrown at sibling here and there is not going to raise my blood pressure too often.

 

 

I like what you have to say here, but when you say "a few upset outbursts..." I'm looking at a child who, whenever he is asked to do anything - from go turn off the light you left on in your bedroom, to doing his chores, to... just about anything that he feels is imposing on his ability to live his life as he chooses, he fusses, whines and falls apart. This is what is driving me nuts about my 7 year old boy and I feel like I'm nitpicking, but good grief, can't a mother ask her son to do something and have it done without a nuclear meltdown. How do you "keep a child's heart", but at the same time train them to adhere to the minimum of respect and cooperation?

[MamaSheep]

[

With my difficult son consistency is absolutely crucial. Absolute consistency. I hadn't heard it stated as a "no freebies" rule before, but that is the sort of consistency that works around here. However, being consistent and not giving freebies doesn't mean you have to get upset. In fact, getting upset is almost always counter-productive. The best approach for us has been to set expectations, including both positive and negative consequences, and then to calmly follow through. Then it's not him against me, it's him against the rule, or expectation. It's not a matter of "you have crossed me and now you're in for it pal", so much as it's "oh dear, you broke the rule (or failed to meet the expectation) so now the consequences have to kick in". (As in, oh that's so sad that you've broken the rule about showing respect to parents by throwing your shoe when I asked you to do something. What's the consequence for being disrespectful?) If you get upset, you are handing him power. In order to maintain effective authority, you have to maintain, at least outwardly, a sense of calm assurance. With my son, at least, I think he has a sort of sub-conscious sense that if I can't even keep control of myself, he can't trust me enough to turn control of HIS life over to me, and therefore he must cling to control at all costs, and wrench it away from me in every way he can think of. And if I think about it, if I'm ever incapacitated and need someone to take control of my life, I want that person to be calm, rational, methodical, and utterly reliable and consistent. The thought of turning my well-being over to someone who is inconsistent or tends to behave rashly under pressure, or who may or may not follow through on things I think are important IS a bit unnerving.

 

But there's another side to the "no freebies" consistency coin that's important around here too. On the one hand, "no freebies" means you don't get excused for the bad stuff you do, there is ALWAYS the consequence. On the other hand, your good behavior shouldn't be glossed over either. I agree with others who have said that focusing in on every little infraction, and making that the sum total of your relationship can be very destructive. However, the way to avoid this is not ignoring infractions, it's celebrating successes TOO. Try being as consistent with pointing out good behavior as you are trying to be with pointing out the bad behavior. And, in fact, this is where you get emotional. Let yourself be visibly proud, happy, and excited when your child does something RIGHT. Pour it on, maybe even a bit more than you actually feel at the time. If you don't FEEL it, act it anyway. Remember, your emotion empowers his behavior. You don't want to get emotional when he's defiant because that empowers the defiance. You DO want to get emotional, in a positive way, when he is obedient (or helpful, cheerful, creative, funny, prompt, whatever the case may be) because that empowers the GOOD behavior. You WANT him to be in control of his own life when he's using that control to choose to be good. The ultimate goal is not to have perfectly obedient adult atomatons, but to have adults who are in control of themselves and choose to use their self-control to do good in the world and be good people. So FEED that when it shows up. Start out by jumping on the smallest little "right" things, as soon as you notice them. Even if you have to be a little creative. Little things. Thanks for smiling. I love how you put all the forks on the left side of the plate, I can always count on you to set the table properly. Thanks for picking up your pencil when you dropped it instead of leaving it on the floor. I appreciate that you didn't slam the door when you went through it, even though I know you were upset at the time, that was amazing self-control and I'm really proud of you." It might feel a bit artificial at first, but if you're consistent it'll come to feel more natural (like any skill does with practice) and it WILL make a difference. In one child behavior management class I took it was recommended that parents aim for a four to one positive to negative ratio. In other words, for each negative response you give ("no freebies") try to give four positive responses (no taking the good for granted). Studies evidently have found that the four to one ratio is where parents have a good, strong, positive relationship with kids. Below that, not so much. Above that, even better. But four to one is evidently the border. So actually you may want to aim a little higher, especially in the early stages. Sincere verbal praise goes a long way. It also helps, at least at my house, to occasionally throw in a more tangible sort of reward. "You have been so consistently helpful today, I'm really impressed. I think you deserve an extra half hour before bedtime tonight." Or, y'know, half an hour of video games, or a new fishing lure, or an extra helping of dessert--whatever reward your child finds meaningful. Really lay it on. And again, this goes for all members of the family, just like the "no freebies" rule.

 

And the other thing that comes to mind is this. I have learned over the years that my son goes through these weird stages every so often (less and less often as he gets older, thank goodness) where he has to test the boundaries. All the boundaries. He will take a few days (or a couple of weeks) and push every. single. stinking. button he can think of. To the point where I am about to lose it and strangle the child or kick him out of the house or something and the only thing that keeps me from doing it is walking around with my teeth clenched and my hands in my pockets. And sometimes locking myself in the bathroom for a while until I can handle a situation like an adult. He pushes me up to my absolute LIMIT. I don't think he does it consciously, or on purpose, he just does it. And I've noticed a pattern. He does it when he's feeling insecure. It might be related to a change in our routine at home, something someone said or did at church, or the library, or whatever, or even something going on inside his own head that I don't even know about, but it seems to be related to insecurity. And I think that the boundaries make him feel safe. Feeling that we (dh and I) are strong, grown-up authoritative (but fair) people makes him feel like he can trust us to keep him safe, even from himself. Because I have noticed over the years that the times I stand up and hold strong on the boundaries, the testing goes away quickly, usually after a day or two. If I lose emotional control, or give even an inch on one of the boundaries, though, there is utter CHAOS in that child for weeks, until he feels that the boundaries are firm again. And again, I don't think any of this is conscious. It would not work for me to say, "Hey kid, don't worry, Dad and I are on the job." But that does seem to be what he needs to know, and he needs to know it by experiencing it. So every now and again he pushes on the walls, just to make sure they're still holding. And of course the boundaries need to shift as he gets older, but when he's pushing them is NOT the time for us to do this. Boundary shifts work best during those times when he's being consistently reliable and responsible, and we sit down with him and say, "You've been so mature lately that we think you're ready for X privilege and the responsibility that goes with it."

 

And beyond that, hugs to you! I know you didn't ask for this battle. You're a strong and brave woman to want to take it on properly and not just throw your own tantrums and be done with it. I admire your courage, and I know if you keep at it things will get gradually better. :grouphug:

 

PS: Keeping score on the positive:negative ratio really can make a difference. Try it for a week. I've heard a couple of suggestions for ways to keep track. One is to keep a 3x5 card and a pencil stub in your pocket. Make a line down the middle and secretly make tally marks on either side. Count up at the end of the day (or periodically during the day) to see how you're doing. Another mom I know keeps four or five pennies in one pocket. Whenever she has a negative interaction with her difficult child she uses the pennies to help her make sure she gets her positives in too. She'll move a penny to the other pocket each time she manages a positive interaction. Also, positive interactions aren't just verbal, they can be a hug, a wink, a rumple of the hair, a quick tickle (only if your child likes that sort of thing), or even just a smile. You can smile at your child, even when he's throwing shoes. That still counts.

Edited May 1, 2010 by MamaSheep

[KS_]

But not so sure I would handle a difficult child the same- and believe me, I have a difficult child, and he does get consequences, and he does do disrespectful things. But I do think "keeping his heart" is important, and when one gets fixated on every transgression, it can easily make a frustrated kid feel he has no outlet and get to the point he doesn't care anymore. I prefer to let a few upset outbursts, immaturely expressed, blow over, and focus on the original issue- as much as possible.

 

 

I think the frustration issue is key - we've implemented techniques from Transforming the Difficult Child for about 6 years now, but although a lot of the time, things seemed to be getting better overall, we still were hitting walls with some issues, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I finally read The Explosive Child (recommended on here) and that opened my eyes to the issues with frustration and how to work with a child that has a very low frustration tolerance and threshold. It has helped a lot. Ds started to see that I was trying to understand what was making him so frustrated and trying to work with him, instead of feeling that I was always working against him.

[BMW]

Thanks, everyone! Great discussion!

 

For those who believe that a child being rude is not acceptable and that it is fine for parents to require more respect and give consequences for rudeness... for those who remember the days when a child just would NOT "go there" because they'd get in trouble...

 

what would you give as consequences for dirty looks. My son is now deciding that I am to receive really rude glares and dirty looks. I am trying to come up with a consequence that I can use consistently and regularly... using the technique mentioned here... "Oh, it's sad that you are giving me that rude look (dirty look... mean look... glare), because now you have the consequence ____________ because that is disrespecting me and not allowed."

 

For those who don't believe in consequences for this type of behavior, I DO allow this son to express himself in many other ways. We talk a lot. I am here for him and nurturing. But, he is digging in and deciding that I am to receive these looks when I give him instructions or when he has earned another consequence. It is not a pout. It is not even a frown. It is a horrible, rebellious glare.

[lionfamily1999]

Thanks, everyone! Great discussion!

 

For those who believe that a child being rude is not acceptable and that it is fine for parents to require more respect and give consequences for rudeness... for those who remember the days when a child just would NOT "go there" because they'd get in trouble...

 

what would you give as consequences for dirty looks. My son is now deciding that I am to receive really rude glares and dirty looks. I am trying to come up with a consequence that I can use consistently and regularly... using the technique mentioned here... "Oh, it's sad that you are giving me that rude look (dirty look... mean look... glare), because now you have the consequence ____________ because that is disrespecting me and not allowed."

 

For those who don't believe in consequences for this type of behavior, I DO allow this son to express himself in many other ways. We talk a lot. I am here for him and nurturing. But, he is digging in and deciding that I am to receive these looks when I give him instructions or when he has earned another consequence. It is not a pout. It is not even a frown. It is a horrible, rebellious glare.

I'm right there with you BMW (a few weeks ago, I would've said not to put up with it ;) ). Ds has suddenly started saying "no" point blank and I find myself remembering my own thoughts as a teenager... "What can she do? Really, what can my mother do? What's the worst she can do to me?" And THAT is the look that ds gives me. I'm loving the suggestions you've gotten so far and hopefully I'll find an answer in all this. Thanks for posting :grouphug:

[Peela]

I like what you have to say here, but when you say "a few upset outbursts..." I'm looking at a child who, whenever he is asked to do anything - from go turn off the light you left on in your bedroom, to doing his chores, to... just about anything that he feels is imposing on his ability to live his life as he chooses, he fusses, whines and falls apart. This is what is driving me nuts about my 7 year old boy and I feel like I'm nitpicking, but good grief, can't a mother ask her son to do something and have it done without a nuclear meltdown. How do you "keep a child's heart", but at the same time train them to adhere to the minimum of respect and cooperation?

 

For me I think the main way to keep my child's heart has always been to move on quickly and not let things draw out. So I would personally prefer to smack a child-and I am not proposing anyone else do this, but for me its what I have done, when the id were younger, and I was at my wits end- than give them some punishment that draws out over the next week such as grounding them from their friends, because tomorrow and the next day and the next...the original incident will be long past and we will all be sweet again..yet the punishment lingers on, creating bad feeling.

 

My kids know I am human. If they push me too far, I will bite (not literally!). And they forgive me, as I forgive them, every time. I apologise if I lose my temper or behave in ways I would rather not and I usually did apolgise if I smacked a child out of anger but also explained that hey, they were really pushing me.

 

I think parenting comes a lot down to temperaments . What works for me may not work or you. We are fiery here. We express freely, we get angry, we yell, we calm down, we forgive, we move on, we hug and love and express. We communicate a lot. Kids are allowed and expected to say what they think, even about the parents. I have had some kids come here and be a little afraid of the level of openness and expressiveness between us all. And ds14's friend comes over from his farm in the ountry and stays with us and feels right at home because his dad is just like dh- very authoritarian but with a fantastic sense of humour.

 

Maybe "keeping a childs heart" is just a term for not losing connection to the innocent child who needs a safe, warm place to really just be themselves, and be accepted fr who they are exactly s they are, and not have to be something we want them to be. We as parents come with our ow conditioning and we often have ideas about how children should be, and our roles as parents, that arent well thought through, and don't necessarily match our particular child.

Dh recently had a realisation that he needed to be less of an authority and more of a friend to his teenage son- they were clashing badly. It has changed the dynamics of our home tremendously for the better. We have to keep checking ourselves out rather than trying to control our kids, I think. Sometimes we can be overly critical, or put being right ahead of a child's feelings. We all do these things.

Well, thats my thoughts at this very tired moment and I am off to bed!

I do think perhaps the key to all that ramble was....does the child feel accrpted, bad behaviour and all? Maybe they will always be a challenge- like my son always has been. MAybe they need LOTs of discipline. But the point is whether they feel deeply and unconditonally loved in spite of the clashes and challenges, and every kid and parent is unique in how that will look.