Fly-by-night degrees and the paper they're written on

[Tangerine]

I don't know why I've gotten my proverbial shorts in a knot over this, but I have. My SIL just got a bachelor's degree in 18 MONTHS! Everyone is just so tickled pink, and she's claiming we'll be calling her Dr. _______ eventually. Which will take what? An extra 6 months? The degree is in business. Ok. And psychology! What sort of grasp of human behavior can you get with a double major in 18 months??

 

Perhaps I'm so uppity about this since DH and I have taken the student vow of poverty so he can get his degree in math.

 

Please explain to me how someone can get a 4 year degree in...well significantly less than 4 years. Does this devalue degrees significantly? Or do employers take into consideration the value of the institution that granted the degree?

 

I'm the first one to say that I think many occupations shouldn't require 4 year degrees. I think people should be able to work to their strengths and use certifications or 2 year degrees in more fields than you currently can. But I think a 4 year degree should take 4 years! (Or maybe 3 if you're a smarty-pants.)

 

Am I not seeing something? Do I have blinders on here? Am I an archaic fuddy-duddy? I'm 30, so let's please not go with archaic fuddy-duddy.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Tangerine
angry typing = spelling errors

[Aubrey]

For 3 payments of

19.95

You can have a PhD!

 

chorus

Results not typical.

Product not guaranteed.

Photos may be mythical,

But we'll ship it light speed.

 

:lol:

 

Of course, it could be that she's a genius & clepped out of everything. :001_huh:

[mommaduck]

Did she already have previous credits or an associates? I've heard of programs that will help you get a Bachelors in 18mos when the person has either of those.

[Aubrey]

Fwiw, dh has a 7yr BA. It doesn't seem to be worth the paper it's written on, either, & by the time the loans are repaid, it'll be a mighty expensive piece of paper.

 

Too bad I spilled coffee on it. :w00t: Honest, I was trying to take it to be framed. :leaving:

[Renee in NC]

Fwiw, dh has a 7yr BA. It doesn't seem to be worth the paper it's written on, either, & by the time the loans are repaid, it'll be a mighty expensive piece of paper.

 

Too bad I spilled coffee on it. :w00t: Honest, I was trying to take it to be framed. :leaving:

 

I have one of those, too, minus the coffee! Mine was a 10 year BS, though!

[Sputterduck]

Well, I go to a university that lets you go as fast as you want. I don't know what hers was like, but mine is well regarded and fully accredited. I chose it because they let you take on as much as you want, oh, and they also let me do my work in Mexico and when I need to go to the states for a proctored exam they pay for it, or they pay for someone to watch me on webcam if they can get the test online (seriously).

 

If I wanted to work 80 hours a week, I could probably get a 4 year degree with them done in 18 months...

 

How many hours did she put into this?

[Tangerine]

Did she already have previous credits or an associates? I've heard of programs that will help you get a Bachelors in 18mos when the person has either of those.

 

The slogan (equation?) is 1 night a week + 18 months = A college degree!

 

It is an actual school. With classes.

[MSNative]

You don't need to shorten the program to devalue degrees. Look how much they have already been devalued b/c so many colleges inflate grades, graduate students who cannot do simple arithmetic, etc.

 

Agree with PP that some colleges allow you to go faster than the typical student. I remember a column by a prof. at Stanford I think, about a foreign student who took a heavier than normal class load and took summer classes. She graduated at least a full year early if not more than that. Doesn't sound like that's what your SIL did. Just sharing a random aside.

 

Sputterduck - which university do you attend? Sounds very forward thinking!

[G5052]

I've been involved in the hiring process in at a major research facility, in the federal government, and at a state college, and believe me, they know. The HR organizations had lists of the diploma millls and always did the initial vetting for us, and then we knew which universities produced solid candidates and which consistently did not.

 

When I was doing a rush application for graduate school, the chairman of the graduate program basically accepted me on the spot during the interview. I was a little shocked by this, and he said, "I always immediately accept any student from X with a 3.0 GPA or above because I know that if you graduate with a degree from there, you're truly ready to go." I asked him about another college only a few hours away, and he said, "Even with a 4.0 GPA, they have to complete certain courses here with non-degree status before we'll take them." So they knew.

 

So not to worry. A degree from a diploma mill will indeed get by some employers, but the larger employers will know.

[Aubrey]

Well, I go to a university that lets you go as fast as you want. I don't know what hers was like, but mine is well regarded and fully accredited. I chose it because they let you take on as much as you want, oh, and they also let me do my work in Mexico and when I need to go to the states for a proctored exam they pay for it, or they pay for someone to watch me on webcam if they can get the test online (seriously).

 

If I wanted to work 80 hours a week, I could probably get a 4 year degree with them done in 18 months...

 

How many hours did she put into this?

 

Hmmm...maybe in some fields, but the reading load would be impossible in most. An avg BA is about 120 credit hrs, divided by two long semesters + a summer term, = maybe 45 credits/semester w/ another 30 over the summer?

 

45 credits = 15 classes =45 hrs/wk IN class, assuming no labs, which is virtually impossible, as at least 8 hrs of most degrees require science w/ labs. If you read fast enough, you could finish the reading for most classes in equal to the time you spend in class. That's another 45 hrs. Then there are papers to write.

 

Let's say you have the stamina (& over 100 hrs/wk, not 80). You'd need the following schedule of classes: MWF, 8-9, 9-10, 10-11, 11-12, 2-3; TR, 8-9:30, 9:30-11, 11-12:30, 1-2:30, 2:30-4, M, 6-9, T, 6-9, W, 6-9, R, 6-9, + 1 online class. Being in school, processing ideas, reading, writing, etc. is surprisingly draining. In a different way than being on your feet all day is draining, & I'd argue that anyone who can handle a schedule at all like this one is working *far* beneath their abilities. Personally, I wouldn't know when to be where after the first day.

 

Honestly, most schools a) don't offer that many different time slots for different courses (iow, to take that many classes, you'd have to be taking freshman comp twice) & b) wouldn't allow it. It doesn't look good for them when students fail or drop out. I had a friend petition to take 20 hrs one semester, & she had to get 5 different faculty members to sign off on that kind of course load. She got the signatures but ended up leaving midsemester. She couldn't do it.

 

30 hrs in the summer would be even more impossible.

[Aubrey]

The slogan (equation?) is 1 night a week + 18 months = A college degree!

 

It is an actual school. With classes.

 

Well that's just bad math. Any 4th grader knows it's 1 night x 18mos = college degree. :lol:

[Tangerine]

Well, I go to a university that lets you go as fast as you want. I don't know what hers was like, but mine is well regarded and fully accredited. I chose it because they let you take on as much as you want, oh, and they also let me do my work in Mexico and when I need to go to the states for a proctored exam they pay for it, or they pay for someone to watch me on webcam if they can get the test online (seriously).

 

If I wanted to work 80 hours a week, I could probably get a 4 year degree with them done in 18 months...

 

How many hours did she put into this?

 

I looked into the school a little. From Wikipedia:

 

In October 2002, Vision International received a cease and desist orderConnecticut Department of Higher Education, which found that the school had offered degrees and certificates in Bible study without being authorized to operate as an institution of higher education in the state. In response, Vision International withdrew its contracts with three Connecticut organizations that had been offering its programs.[8] from the State of

In July 2007 a Mexican newspaper reported that the Secretariat of Public Education (SEP) of Mexico had issued a warning against Vision International and ten other foreign institutions identified as having committed academic fraud.[9]

 

This is the partner institution which is unaccredited, but the school she went to is regionally accredited.

[Tangerine]

Well that's just bad math. Any 4th grader knows it's 1 night x 18mos = college degree. :lol:

 

 

:lol: I just double checked it. I copied it correctly.

[Twinmom]

My DH got his BA through a program that offered college credit for work experience, which significantly shortened the time required. Of course, he had to do a HUGE binder documenting his experience and how it applied to the coursework required AND he came into the program with some community college under his belt. Does anything like that apply to your relative? If not, sounds fishy to me!

[LisaKinVA]

speaking as a person who double majored in 3 years, that degree sounds like a scam.

 

A major in 3, let alone a double major in 3 is tough work. I took classes during Spring Break, Summer Break, Thanksgiving Break... even came back early one year from Christmas Break. I routinely took 20+ hours a semester.

 

Oh, and I CLEPed a semester+ too.

 

I still tell people I wish I had stayed a 4th year (because I wish I had debated), even though it would have meant I needed a 3rd major...:lol:

[bettyandbob]

What's the value of her degree? It means she hired for some jobs simply because she has a degree. It means if she's been at a deadend in a job for a while she may be able to get a promotion she couldn't get before.

 

If her goal were to eventually get a PhD to teach and do academic research at the university level, she probably doesn't have the right degree to get down that path. Ditto to attend professional schools for MD, JD, DVM. Well, there's probably a law school somewhere that would accept that degree, but if you are going to invest in law school you really need to do your research and figure out where graduates of the particular school you want to attend really end up. The same goes for MBA programs.

 

My sil did a program by correspondence (early 90s before heavy internet use) with Thomas Edison in New Jersey. She had a 2 year degree already. She was fluent in a foreign language in her employer was giving her all kinds of responsibility, but no promotions were available because of her lack of degree. So, Thomas Edison evaluated her credits, I think they may have given her some credits based on "life skills", such as her language fluency, which is not based on formal education. Then she started studying on her own and testing out of classes as fast as she could. I don't know what her degree is in, but when got it, she immediately got a better job. The time she put in beyond her associates took a little over a year.

 

It is possible to go to a traditional university and finish in 3 years, even without a lot of AP credits. I had a classmate at William and Mary do this. If you have the luxury of not needing to work summers you can accumulation up to 12 credits a summer. She took 6 credits the summer before freshman year, 12 after sophomore year. I believe she had good grades and took course over loads (permission to take up to 21 credits in a regular semester). Her degree was in English. I majored in Chemistry. It would have been almost impossible to do what she did with a science major.

[Crimson Wife]

My DH got his BA through a program that offered college credit for work experience, which significantly shortened the time required. Of course, he had to do a HUGE binder documenting his experience and how it applied to the coursework required AND he came into the program with some community college under his belt. Does anything like that apply to your relative? If not, sounds fishy to me!

 

My cousin's wife had 15 years' work experience in accounting but only 1 semester's worth of CC. When she got laid off, she was able to get advanced standing at a bachelor's in accounting program through testing out of lower-level classes. Depending on her workload she could finish in as few as 3 semesters. It's not a scam because she knows the material in the classes for which she got credit through her on-the-job experience.

[EKS]

Did she get it online? I have recently had some experience with an online master's degree program which is accredited and highly regarded and after three quarters I have determined that I am NOT impressed. I could go on, but I guess I won't.

[Pamela H in Texas]

There ARE programs that allow people to go faster. I'm only slightly accelerated, but I have classmates who have been able to go much more quickly. This is from a regionally university (and the education program is nationally accredited also).

 

So it depends. I wouldn't assume the degree is junk just because it was gotten quickly. The average person takes 4 years to get through high school also. Of course, I have known people who have junk high school diplomas also. No doubt, some people can get a junk college degree.

 

What school did she use?

[Pamela H in Texas]

There ARE programs that allow people to go faster. I'm only slightly accelerated, but I have classmates who have been able to go much more quickly. This is from a regionally university (and the education program is nationally accredited also).

 

So it depends. I wouldn't assume the degree is junk just because it was gotten quickly. The average person takes 4 years to get through high school also. Of course, I have known people who have junk high school diplomas also. No doubt, some people can get a junk college degree.

 

What school did she use? The slogan of the school is 1 night a week for 18mo? Oh my!

Edited April 14, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Tangerine]

Mid-Continent University

 

I looked into the accrediting institution. It appears that there may have been some issues regarding defining a credit hour. As in, they held schools to a number of credit hours required for a degree, but they didn't hold to a standard of what DEFINED a credit hour.

 

And those of you who referred to completing in 3 years, I totally believe that. Intense, but possible. I guess I want to think that people go to college to acquire understanding and knowledge, rather than cramming the bare minimum into a year and a half. What can I say, I'm a dreamer. :tongue_smilie: I realize that people who are doing it to advance at work don't really have the option to contemplate the blades of grass all day.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Tangerine

[RegGuheert]

 

This guy got a double major from UVA in ONE YEAR.

[Tangerine]

This guy got a double major from UVA in ONE YEAR.

 

"Banh went to U-Va. with the equivalent of 72 college credits."

 

Not that it makes much difference, as he is obviously incredibly smart and dedicated. But at least the space/time continuum remains intact with that information. Otherwise I don't know how it would even be possible.

[2cents]

Getting a degree in significantly less than 4 years is VERY possible!

 

I am one who has done it. I enrolled in the accelerated degree program for adult learners at Regis University. It was a grueling schedule and every class required a speech presentation and the majority of work was in the form of written papers. Most of the time we were required to turn in our first papers even before the first class met. There was no tolerance for missing a class. A missed class was an automatic grade decrease by a whole grade. It was serious business. I think the accelerated format was so much better than dragging the courses out over a semester. I relate much better to getting things done faster so this worked well for me. When I was at Regis University they accepted unlimited CLEP and DANTE exam credit. I CLEP, DANTE and Challenge Tested out of a total of 11 courses. Between the accelerated program and testing out of courses, I was able to do my degree in less than 2 years. My degree is from a very reputable university too. ;)

[keptwoman]

So she worked one night a week for 18 months and got a degree?????

Surely there should be some kind of law or regulation which dictates when a degree can be given because that is ridiculous! It should barely even be a Certificate.

[DarlaS]

Fwiw, dh has a 7yr BA.

 

My dh is about to get a 16 year BS at the end of this semester. To clarify why this took so long, he wasn't originally going for this degree and has acquired 3 (or 4? I've lost count...) AS degrees along the way. Oh, and that one certificate. Can't forget the certificate.:tongue_smilie:

 

I totally understand your frustration!

[Orthodox6]

I think she had to work hard for her degree, if it took 18 months. Some people receive religious ordination within the time necessary to fax a credit card payment, and immediately receive back full credentials. :tongue_smilie:

 

(Tangerine, I am not making fun of your dismay. Please don't think that I am.)

[Tangerine]

I think she had to work hard for her degree, if it took 18 months. Some people receive religious ordination within the time necessary to fax a credit card payment, and immediately receive back full credentials. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

I have one! The free kind. :lol:

 

I'm going to have people start calling me Rev. Tangerine.

[Meriwether]

I think she had to work hard for her degree, if it took 18 months. Some people receive religious ordination within the time necessary to fax a credit card payment, and immediately receive back full credentials. :tongue_smilie:

 

QUOTE]

 

 

My dad has one of these. He served as a pastor at a startup church for a couple of years. Everyone knew he never went to seminary. Everything was great until several couples wanted him to marry them. He got the cheesy ordination because that made it legal in his state. I'd kind of forgotten about that. Time to remind everyone so we can tease him again.:D

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think she had to work hard for her degree, if it took 18 months. Some people receive religious ordination within the time necessary to fax a credit card payment, and immediately receive back full credentials. :tongue_smilie:

 

QUOTE]

 

 

My dad has one of these. He served as a pastor at a startup church for a couple of years. Everyone knew he never went to seminary. Everything was great until several couples wanted him to marry them. He got the cheesy ordination because that made it legal in his state. I'd kind of forgotten about that. Time to remind everyone so we can tease him again.:D

 

My dh has one of these too. But he did go to seminary and got his MDiv and his ThM so he put in 6 years of work. We don't belong to a denomination and so he had no one to ordain him. He needed the paper so that he could legally marry people in our church.

[Beth S]

I was mildly surprised to hear that your sister graduated from Mid-Continent.

 

The brick & mortar school is only 10 minutes from my house . . . and we live in the middle of nowhere (rural west KY).

 

She did get an accredited degree, but I would describe the programs as non-rigorous. They have geared many of their programs for older adults, with several locations for classes in the region.

 

Hopefully her expectations for the use of her college degree will be fulfilled.

 

It's just not what we are choosing for our kids.

[Orthodox6]

 

My dh has one of these too. But he did go to seminary and got his MDiv and his ThM so he put in 6 years of work. We don't belong to a denomination and so he had no one to ordain him. He needed the paper so that he could legally marry people in our church.

 

Oh dear. Jean, of course I never would classify your husband in with the people of whom I jested. Your husband followed the path of hard work and, for your all's framework, had no other option in order to serve as a minister legally.

[Orthodox6]

I think she had to work hard for her degree, if it took 18 months. Some people receive religious ordination within the time necessary to fax a credit card payment, and immediately receive back full credentials. :tongue_smilie:

 

QUOTE]

 

 

My dad has one of these. He served as a pastor at a startup church for a couple of years. Everyone knew he never went to seminary. Everything was great until several couples wanted him to marry them. He got the cheesy ordination because that made it legal in his state. I'd kind of forgotten about that. Time to remind everyone so we can tease him again.:D

 

I guess I put my foot in my mouth. Sorry, folks.

[MyThreeSons]

I have one of those, too, minus the coffee! Mine was a 10 year BS, though!

 

 

Hey, I thought I was the only one who took 10 years to get her BS. I was working full time most of those years, and only taking one or two classes per semester. My company paid my tuition, so I was debt free long before I graduated. AND, I was making good money while going to school.

[Meriwether]

Don't apologize on my account. WE make fun of Dad. I'm the one who bought the certificate for him. It came from Las Vegas.:tongue_smilie: I think it is fine as long as people know what they are getting. My dad knows his Bible and the folks needed a preacher. They had no money to pay one. In my heritage, the preachers were all farmers that took turns or were called to preach for a certain amount of time (until my generation or so). So for us, it wasn't weird for him to preach. Nobody considers him ordained (this is very different from 6 years of study; I'd consider the other poster's Dh ordained), it was just to make it legal for him to marry those couples.

[Tangerine]

 

I guess I put my foot in my mouth. Sorry, folks.

 

 

I didn't get the feeling anyone was offended. But now we know that they can be used for legitimate purposes. (Unlike mine, which is for novelty purposes only.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Oh dear. Jean, of course I never would classify your husband in with the people of whom I jested. Your husband followed the path of hard work and, for your all's framework, had no other option in order to serve as a minister legally.

 

Oh, I'm not offended! Like Meriwether, we make fun of him too! (And we tell him that now he can open a Las Vegas style wedding chapel. . .:D)

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

 

I didn't get the feeling anyone was offended. But now we know that they can be used for legitimate purposes. (Unlike mine, which is for novelty purposes only.)

 

You are right. The people in our church listen to dh because they know he has training as well as a gift. (And I know that people can get training in many different ways. Autodidact anyone? But it does help to prove that you put the work in when you've satisfied certain requirements.)

[Orthodox6]

The "quote" function is malfunctioning !

Some of my words were assigned to someone else.

Someone else's words were assigned to me.

 

Wake up, server ! :D

[Jean in Newcastle]

The "quote" function is malfunctioning !

Some of my words were assigned to someone else.

Someone else's words were assigned to me.

 

Wake up, server ! :D

 

How did that happen?:confused: