Natural remedy for depression?

[scrapbabe]

Anyone managed depression through natural remedies? I've been struggling with it for awhile, but don't want to be medicated. I was hoping I could find something natural to help out.

 

Shalynn

[phathui5]

Exercise! Since December, I've been working out at the local Y 4-6 days a week and I'm much happier. Exercise releases endorphins. Endorphins make people happy.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

What helped me: sunshine, physical activity, fish oil, deep breathing/relaxation techniques, a "mantra," and prayer.

 

The mantra is just any positive words to replace the negative ones that keep playing over in your head like a broken record. It could be a scripture, a song, a poem, etc.

 

When I say prayer, I mean prayer of letting go and letting God take over. If you are not the praying type, I imagine it might help to find some way to consciously give up those things over which you have no control, like writing a list and burning it. For a while you will have to keep reminding yourself that you gave up that worry, desire, or whatever it is.

 

These are what helped me tremendously. Others may have more to add.

[Laurie4b]

Anyone managed depression through natural remedies? I've been struggling with it for awhile, but don't want to be medicated. I was hoping I could find something natural to help out.

 

Shalynn

 

Exercise is as good as medication, has no side effects, and can permanently reverse depression. Since depression makes you not want to exercise, get a friend to walk with you, etc. Or do 10 min walk outside (get your vit. D that way) a couple times a day. "Natural" herbs, etc. are chemicals, too. Exercise stimulates your own brain's chemicals to rebalance.

[Dawn in OH]

I've dealt with mild depression and St. John's Wort helped me. Some people say it works, some say it doesn't. For me, it helped a great deal.

 

Even more natural than that, I've found that exercise and eating healthy help A LOT. So does nice weather. I get winter depression. Nothing like a little bit of sunshine and fresh air to perk me up.

 

I've also found that since I boosted my Vitamin D intake I feel better.

[tenoraddict]

:grouphug: There is so much information available, but not many want to look for it. Kudos to you for wanting to cure the problem rather than throw a pill at it. The books I mention or quote below can usually be borrowed from the library. Because there are several options, I recommend talking with a doctor or naturopath in conjunction with consulting the books; you want to pick the supplements and dosages that are right for you.

 

According to the Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine: Low levels of seratonin (I've read this

elsewhere, too) are linked to depression. To combat this, don't smoke, abuse alcohol, limit sugar intake, don't overconsume protein, limit caffeine, and make sure you are not deficient in various nutrients (are you taking a GOOD multi-vitamin/multi-mineral?). "A health-promoting lifestyle and diet go a long way toward restoring optimal seratonin levels and relieving depression. But in the interim, such natural agents as 5-HTP and St. John's Wort can provide the necessary serotonin boost to support making important changes in diet and lifestyle...Numerous double blind studies have shown that 5-HTP has equal effectiveness compared to drugs like Prozac, Paxil, and Zolof...it is less expensive, better tolerated, and associated with fewer and much milder side effects...perhaps more important than simply relieving insomnia is 5-HTP's ability to improve the quality of sleep...5-HTP is equal to or better than standard antidepressant drugs, and its side effects are much less severe...St. John's Wort extract wa shown to produce improvements in many psychological symptoms including depression...the main advantage of using St. John's wort extract as opposed to antidepressant drugs was found to be...in terms of side effects, cost, and patient satisfaction."

 

Also, according the the same encyclopedia, folic acid and B12 have antidepressive effects by elevating serotonin. "High dose folic acid therapy is safe (except in patients with epilepsy) and has been shown to be as effective as antidepressant drugs. Folic acid should always be accompanied by vitamin B12 supplementation to prevent folic acid from masking a vitamin B12 deficiency."

 

"Vitamin B6 levels are typically quite low in depressed patients...Considering the many functions of vitamin B6 in the brain, including the fact that the vitamin B6 is essential to the manufacture of seratonin, it is likely that many of the millions of people who take Prozac are depressed simply as a result of low vitamin B6 levels."

 

"An insufficiency of omega-3 oils in the diet has been linked to depression...researchers have concluded that omega-3 fatty acids may reduce the development of depression..."

 

The results of a number of clinical studies suggest that SAM is one of the most effective nautral antidepressants.

 

"Depression and fatigue have been linked with food allergies for over 65 years."

[Halcyon]

Yes! I read two books which greatly helped me:

The Depression Cure

Mindful Way Through Depression

 

The first gives dietary and lifestyle changes, the second focuses more on meditation, CBT and relaxation techiques. The two together really, really, really have helped me, and I've suffered from depression and anxiety all my life (and have the scrips to prove it!)

[Debbie in OR]

Do a search for 5-HTP amino acids. I found out about it several months ago and after some research, found that it is the amino acid that helps your body produce seratonin (the happy hormone!). I have definitely noticed a difference...nothing dramatic but I feel calmer, less anxious, not "blue". It's weird. My sleep has also improved.

 

I do walk or run every day...that is critical!

[Liz CA]

Are you thinking herbal supplements only or have you also sought counseling?

I always thought it's mostly a two-pronged approach but I cannot say I have first hand experience.

Perhaps what you call depression is more of a mood swing?

[Lisa in Jax]

I agree with all of the below, and I'd add some Vitamin D3 as mentioned above, and zinc picolinate, as well. Zinc is required for conversion of -5-htp to serotonin and also increases your ability to deal with stress. D3 helps with seasonal depression and "regular" depression.

 

Once the vitamins above and below start to help, consider looking at your diet to see if you're eating something that is causing depression. First look at what you crave. Those foods are often the culprits. (And if you're craving carbs and/or hungry right away after you eat, it may be your body's way of asking for more 5-htp, b/c serotonin is made from carbs.)

 

Hope you're feeling sunny soon. :)

 

:grouphug: There is so much information available, but not many want to look for it. Kudos to you for wanting to cure the problem rather than throw a pill at it. The books I mention or quote below can usually be borrowed from the library. Because there are several options, I recommend talking with a doctor or naturopath in conjunction with consulting the books; you want to pick the supplements and dosages that are right for you.

 

According to the Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine: Low levels of seratonin (I've read this

elsewhere, too) are linked to depression. To combat this, don't smoke, abuse alcohol, limit sugar intake, don't overconsume protein, limit caffeine, and make sure you are not deficient in various nutrients (are you taking a GOOD multi-vitamin/multi-mineral?). "A health-promoting lifestyle and diet go a long way toward restoring optimal seratonin levels and relieving depression. But in the interim, such natural agents as 5-HTP and St. John's Wort can provide the necessary serotonin boost to support making important changes in diet and lifestyle...Numerous double blind studies have shown that 5-HTP has equal effectiveness compared to drugs like Prozac, Paxil, and Zolof...it is less expensive, better tolerated, and associated with fewer and much milder side effects...perhaps more important than simply relieving insomnia is 5-HTP's ability to improve the quality of sleep...5-HTP is equal to or better than standard antidepressant drugs, and its side effects are much less severe...St. John's Wort extract wa shown to produce improvements in many psychological symptoms including depression...the main advantage of using St. John's wort extract as opposed to antidepressant drugs was found to be...in terms of side effects, cost, and patient satisfaction."

 

Also, according the the same encyclopedia, folic acid and B12 have antidepressive effects by elevating serotonin. "High dose folic acid therapy is safe (except in patients with epilepsy) and has been shown to be as effective as antidepressant drugs. Folic acid should always be accompanied by vitamin B12 supplementation to prevent folic acid from masking a vitamin B12 deficiency."

 

"Vitamin B6 levels are typically quite low in depressed patients...Considering the many functions of vitamin B6 in the brain, including the fact that the vitamin B6 is essential to the manufacture of seratonin, it is likely that many of the millions of people who take Prozac are depressed simply as a result of low vitamin B6 levels."

 

"An insufficiency of omega-3 oils in the diet has been linked to depression...researchers have concluded that omega-3 fatty acids may reduce the development of depression..."

 

The results of a number of clinical studies suggest that SAM is one of the most effective nautral antidepressants.

 

"Depression and fatigue have been linked with food allergies for over 65 years."

[Peela]

Anyone managed depression through natural remedies? I've been struggling with it for awhile, but don't want to be medicated. I was hoping I could find something natural to help out.

 

Shalynn

 

Several members of my family are using St Johns Wort and they swear by it- better than the meds, they reckon.

I have periodic mild depression. A good cry helps quite often. For me, when I am depressed, the last thing I feel like doing is taking good care of myself, like eating well and getting exercise, so I have to bribe myself to just do a tiny thing- a 10 minute walk, read a book in the sun, drink one glass of water...each of the things I do make me want to do more, but I never know that till I do the first step, and just doing that first step can seem huge.

[Michelle O. in MO]

Shalynn,

 

Research the 5-HTP though as I've heard that people with thyroid problems should not take it, but instead they should try St. John's Wort. You have thyroid issues right?

[RanchGirl]

I just finished reading Spark and there is a lot in there about exercise and its effects on depression. The author is a psychiatrist and he recommends both antidepressants and exercise -- they are equally effective but the antidepressants start working faster. So if you try exercise, hang in there even if you don't notice an improvement right away!

[seriousmom]

Usually, people who have depression also have low serotonin.

 

So, eat high serotonin foods: avocados, nuts, pineapples, strawberries, tomatoes, cheese, bananas.

 

I have high serotonin, the top 4 on this list make me sick. :tongue_smilie:

[scrapbabe]

Shalynn,

 

Research the 5-HTP though as I've heard that people with thyroid problems should not take it, but instead they should try St. John's Wort. You have thyroid issues right?

Yes, I had my thyroid removed in the fall for thryoid cancer. I think the fact that I haven't regained energy since then and haven't been able to work out and am eating unhealthy are contributing to my depression. However, I didn't mention it in my original post, because I wanted some ideas outside of "it's just your thyroid".

 

Most days I have a hard time getting out of bed, and once I do I have a hard time getting anything done. It's hard to not be the person I once was.

 

I don't think it's all due to my thyroid, so, as I said before, I wanted advice that wasn't associated with that. I appreciate all of the responses. I do need some motivation to get moving again, even if it's only 10 minutes at a time.

 

I am grateful for all of you and for taking the time to respond. It's good to hear of ways I can try to combat it. It makes it seem not so hard.

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

[scrapbabe]

Usually, people who have depression also have low serotonin.

 

So, eat high serotonin foods: avocados, nuts, pineapples, strawberries, tomatoes, cheese, bananas.

 

I have high serotonin, the top 4 on this list make me sick. :tongue_smilie:

 

I had no idea there were foods high in serotonin. Those are some of my favorite foods! That must mean my body needs them.

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

[Joanne]

Whenever I see this question in any form, I worry that the person is being under-treated for a medical condition (which is what depression is).

 

I'm not an automatic or willing advocate of allopathic meds by any means. I selective/delayed vaxed my kids, had them at home, never had them tested for "strep", did homeopathics......

 

And I *believe* in the science behind natural depression remedies. But the reality of the medical condition called depression is that sometimes you *can't* make the changes the natural remedies require.

 

That was my situation.

 

A short period of time on anti-D's enabled me to make and sustain changes that helped heal my body.

 

If you (or anyone reading) have been suffering with depression for long and haven't been willing/able to move into the appropriate natural remedies, you might want to consider pharmaceuticals.

[TengoFive]

Okay, I don't want to say what you didn't want people to say, but I have thyroid problems and struggled with depression for years. It took many, many tries to find the right medication and dosage for me to start feeling better energy wise and mood wise. I found out the synthroid DOES NOT work for me and amazingly enough, neither does Armour. I have to take a compounded Cytomel to feel normal and sink into a deep depression if I'm not religious with my meds. I don't mean to say that that's the only thing you have going on, but it is what I would look at first. It may not be only your thyroid causing your depression, but I'm afraid until you get the thyroid normalized you won't be able to take the steps necessary to get out of the depression (diet and exercise.) I know how sometimes its just too hard to think about what would be healthy and how much easier it is to grab whatever is at hand and how just having to think about getting prepared to exercise is too much. Thyroid problems stink. I'm sorry you're having to deal with them AND depression.

 

 

Yes, I had my thyroid removed in the fall for thryoid cancer. I think the fact that I haven't regained energy since then and haven't been able to work out and am eating unhealthy are contributing to my depression. However, I didn't mention it in my original post, because I wanted some ideas outside of "it's just your thyroid".

 

Most days I have a hard time getting out of bed, and once I do I have a hard time getting anything done. It's hard to not be the person I once was.

 

I don't think it's all due to my thyroid, so, as I said before, I wanted advice that wasn't associated with that. I appreciate all of the responses. I do need some motivation to get moving again, even if it's only 10 minutes at a time.

 

I am grateful for all of you and for taking the time to respond. It's good to hear of ways I can try to combat it. It makes it seem not so hard.

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

[Jen in PA]

I never even realized how awful I felt until I started taking omega 3 and D (in addition to Synthroid). The nice thing is that you really can raise your levels without popping a pill if you get out in the sun and eat foods rich in Omega-3s. Supplementing with these has made such a difference for me.

[Firefly]

For occasional bouts of "the blues" or moodiness (not a clinical depression), Lemon Balm tea and St. John's Wort work wonders.

[Orthodox6]

Anyone managed depression through natural remedies? I've been struggling with it for awhile, but don't want to be medicated. I was hoping I could find something natural to help out.

 

Shalynn

 

"Natural substances" are medications. People often lose sight of this core fact. As other posters have observed, self-diagnosis can err in its conclusions, and choosing the wrong "natural substance" can have dangerous consequences.

 

If you can find a psychiatrist (not a general MD) willing to work with you and to discuss the several "natural" equivalents of pharmaceutical meds, then go for it. Use the "natural" substance while under the doctor's supervision. I had great success doing this.

 

Also, although your original post is brief, is there possibly a "behind the lines" misunderstanding of pharmaceutical medications ? an unfortunate misperception that "taking medications" is "bad/wrong/socially demeaning/etc." ?

[asta]

"Natural substances" are medications. People often lose sight of this core fact. As other posters have observed, self-diagnosis can err in its conclusions, and choosing the wrong "natural substance" can have dangerous consequences.

 

If you can find a psychiatrist (not a general MD) willing to work with you and to discuss the several "natural" equivalents of pharmaceutical meds, then go for it. Use the "natural" substance while under the doctor's supervision. I had great success doing this.

 

Also, although your original post is brief, is there possibly a "behind the lines" misunderstanding of pharmaceutical medications ? an unfortunate misperception that "taking medications" is "bad/wrong/socially demeaning/etc." ?

 

Thank you for writing this Orthodox6.

 

Something people really need to recognize is that, as hip as it is to disparage "Big Pharma", BP is regulated within an inch of their life. Supplements, at least in the United States, are not regulated at all.

 

Not all depression stems from serotonin imbalances. eg: St. John's Wort doesn't necessarily do a darn thing. And that isn't even taking into account that a person has absolutely NO guarantee that the pill or capsule they are getting from Ye Olde Vitamin Shoppe actually IS what it says it is. At least when you get a bottle of Zoloft from Target, you're actually getting Zoloft. (I'm not saying Zoloft is the answer, either, I'm just using it as an example)

 

And, I hate to say this, but it may very well be "just your thyroid". I know of two people who had their thyroid out, and both of them were not able to regulate their systems (weight, mood, fatigue, etc.) for around a year. Replacing a hormone - any hormone - is a very delicate process. You have to have an endocrinologist who really knows what they are doing and really listens to you. If you ran fast and perky before your operation, they have to know that so they can adjust your meds accordingly - your "normal" will not match the "lab normal". If you were always lethargic (all your life) before your operation and needed to be sped up, then again, the doc needs to know this to adjust your meds. The lab values don't tell them this kind of stuff - only you can.

 

HTH

 

 

asta

[scrapbabe]

Thank you for writing this Orthodox6.

 

Something people really need to recognize is that, as hip as it is to disparage "Big Pharma", BP is regulated within an inch of their life. Supplements, at least in the United States, are not regulated at all.

 

Not all depression stems from serotonin imbalances. eg: St. John's Wort doesn't necessarily do a darn thing. And that isn't even taking into account that a person has absolutely NO guarantee that the pill or capsule they are getting from Ye Olde Vitamin Shoppe actually IS what it says it is. At least when you get a bottle of Zoloft from Target, you're actually getting Zoloft. (I'm not saying Zoloft is the answer, either, I'm just using it as an example)

 

And, I hate to say this, but it may very well be "just your thyroid". I know of two people who had their thyroid out, and both of them were not able to regulate their systems (weight, mood, fatigue, etc.) for around a year. Replacing a hormone - any hormone - is a very delicate process. You have to have an endocrinologist who really knows what they are doing and really listens to you. If you ran fast and perky before your operation, they have to know that so they can adjust your meds accordingly - your "normal" will not match the "lab normal". If you were always lethargic (all your life) before your operation and needed to be sped up, then again, the doc needs to know this to adjust your meds. The lab values don't tell them this kind of stuff - only you can.

 

HTH

 

 

asta

 

I don't have an aversion to medicine. I ask about natural remedies because my endo is an absolute turd. I had tons of energy before thyroid cancer, and now am a slug. He told me it couldn't be my thyroid because the lab work looks great. If anything "I should lower your dosage". He refuses to listen to me about how I used to feel. He sees it as unrelated. I have been reading and trying to find a way to help myself to feel better - since I have little faith in this dr. I have a bil who is a medical dr. and his wife is an herbologist. So I discuss all these things with both of them so I know I'm being safe.

My endo is the only one for hours around. He flies in twice a month to see people in my city - because there are no others. I was hoping, by asking my question about depression, that someone might say something I hadn't thought about. From this experience and others in the past, I've lost faith with the medicial profession. Not that I wouldn't rely on it if it were reliable. But I've been hung out to dry too many times, and have always had to find a way to "treat" myself.

 

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

DH sturggles with depression, and the things that help him the most are to cut out caffeine and sugar/simple carbs, to exercise, and to keep himself busy. He feels better when he accomplishes things around the house.

[melissel]

I don't have an aversion to medicine. I ask about natural remedies because my endo is an absolute turd. I had tons of energy before thyroid cancer, and now am a slug. He told me it couldn't be my thyroid because the lab work looks great. If anything "I should lower your dosage". He refuses to listen to me about how I used to feel. He sees it as unrelated. I have been reading and trying to find a way to help myself to feel better - since I have little faith in this dr. I have a bil who is a medical dr. and his wife is an herbologist. So I discuss all these things with both of them so I know I'm being safe.

My endo is the only one for hours around. He flies in twice a month to see people in my city - because there are no others. I was hoping, by asking my question about depression, that someone might say something I hadn't thought about. From this experience and others in the past, I've lost faith with the medicial profession. Not that I wouldn't rely on it if it were reliable. But I've been hung out to dry too many times, and have always had to find a way to "treat" myself.

 

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

 

:grouphug: What a situation to be in. I'm sorry you're stuck with such poor care.

[TengoFive]

Okay, since you have a crummy doctor, look here I go here to find a new doctor every time we move. Before I started using this list, I had horrible doctors. One thing I really like about it, is it has doctors who while not endocrinologists specialize in hormones. My doctor in Georgia, before we moved was actually emergency room trained, but hormones were his passion. He's the best thyroid doctor I've found yet. Most of the doctors on the top doc list will treat the patient, not the lab results.

 

I don't have an aversion to medicine. I ask about natural remedies because my endo is an absolute turd. I had tons of energy before thyroid cancer, and now am a slug. He told me it couldn't be my thyroid because the lab work looks great. If anything "I should lower your dosage". He refuses to listen to me about how I used to feel. He sees it as unrelated. I have been reading and trying to find a way to help myself to feel better - since I have little faith in this dr. I have a bil who is a medical dr. and his wife is an herbologist. So I discuss all these things with both of them so I know I'm being safe.

My endo is the only one for hours around. He flies in twice a month to see people in my city - because there are no others. I was hoping, by asking my question about depression, that someone might say something I hadn't thought about. From this experience and others in the past, I've lost faith with the medicial profession. Not that I wouldn't rely on it if it were reliable. But I've been hung out to dry too many times, and have always had to find a way to "treat" myself.

 

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

[Orthodox6]

A bad doctor sure is a bum deal ! Hope you can find better.

 

As most of us post drawing from our own experience and research, I just would not trust the knowledge level of a physician from some other specialty when discussing psychiatric meds. If I really suspected depression to be at work, I would combine the knowledge bases of a psychiatrist and a naturopath (including the herbalogist).

 

Best wishes.

 

I don't have an aversion to medicine. I ask about natural remedies because my endo is an absolute turd. I had tons of energy before thyroid cancer, and now am a slug. He told me it couldn't be my thyroid because the lab work looks great. If anything "I should lower your dosage". He refuses to listen to me about how I used to feel. He sees it as unrelated. I have been reading and trying to find a way to help myself to feel better - since I have little faith in this dr. I have a bil who is a medical dr. and his wife is an herbologist. So I discuss all these things with both of them so I know I'm being safe.

My endo is the only one for hours around. He flies in twice a month to see people in my city - because there are no others. I was hoping, by asking my question about depression, that someone might say something I hadn't thought about. From this experience and others in the past, I've lost faith with the medicial profession. Not that I wouldn't rely on it if it were reliable. But I've been hung out to dry too many times, and have always had to find a way to "treat" myself.

 

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

[KristenS]

Haven't read all the replies yet, but there's a book Natural something by Bourne ... my therapist loaned it to me and I am now buying my own copy. Good ideas in it. I am one who does need medication for anxiety and depression, but at such levels that I need other things to help bring it down too. (Sorry I can't recall the exact title... but it's currently in print and should be easy to find .. spotted it at B&N yesterday.)

[asta]

I don't know what your resources are, but I would look on thyroid support group websites to find out who the best endo is within either a 2-3 day drive or a cheap plane fare.

 

I (no sh*t) just flew across the OCEAN to see my old neurologist because I was having so many problems finding a new neurologist who would listen to me where I currently live. I was miserable, sick, and only getting sicker. Now I'm getting better. It was a chunk of money, but extremely well spent.

 

Eating better, exercising, and a general healthy lifestyle all help ANYONE with a health problem, but, as my boss likes to say, when your leg is broken, you don't expect yoga to fix it - you go get a cast. When your thyroid is MISSING, why would you expect a better attitude or an anti-depressant to fix it? (and I'm not saying "you", scrapbabe, I mean "global" you). There are certain things that simply need to be approached from an allopathic perspective, even if they can then be assisted by a holistic one.

 

 

a

[6packofun]

Exercise helps me up to a point. When I'm not able to fit exercise into my life--like right now, unfortunately--life gets pretty miserable. I've tried most "natural remedies" for depression and the one that worked best for me was SAM-E. It helps, too, that it's good for joints and that's a bonus when I do get to work out! lol SAM-E is on the expensive side, and I can't remember the physiology/pharmacology behind it but I believe it's best to also take B vitamins along with it and don't take it at ALL if you may have manic depression/bipolar. B vitamins are supposed to be helpful for depression as well, so it's a good combo to try, IMO.

 

Fish oil, cod liver oil can be good for your mood as well.

 

I also took Lexapro at one point and it worked a bit better than the SAM-E. lol

[scrapbabe]

I don't know what your resources are, but I would look on thyroid support group websites to find out who the best endo is within either a 2-3 day drive or a cheap plane fare.

 

I (no sh*t) just flew across the OCEAN to see my old neurologist because I was having so many problems finding a new neurologist who would listen to me where I currently live. I was miserable, sick, and only getting sicker. Now I'm getting better. It was a chunk of money, but extremely well spent.

 

Eating better, exercising, and a general healthy lifestyle all help ANYONE with a health problem, but, as my boss likes to say, when your leg is broken, you don't expect yoga to fix it - you go get a cast. When your thyroid is MISSING, why would you expect a better attitude or an anti-depressant to fix it? (and I'm not saying "you", scrapbabe, I mean "global" you). There are certain things that simply need to be approached from an allopathic perspective, even if they can then be assisted by a holistic one.

 

 

a

 

I don't think you meant to be funny, but your attitude is funny (in a nice way). You made me laugh. What you said makes really good sense. I have hesitated going to another doctor because I didn't want him to read the notes from my current doctor and take his side. Do doctors tend to stick together? That's sort of a rhetorical question - just my mind rambling. You all have given me a lot to think about and I greatly appreciate it!

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

[Lovedtodeath]

For me personally, it has been Raw Cacao, Vitamin D and therapy (tapping.com and resonance repatterning). Here is some more info on the Raw Cacao, it really works as well as a prescription, but I always had to quit those because of side effects. Some more on Cacao: I am using raw cocao, "As well as antioxidants the beans are rich in feel

good factor chemicals dopamine and tryptophan." more information. I get Navitas Naturals, Cacao Power, Certified Organic, 16 oz (454 g) from iherb.com 2 t. per day. The recommended dose on the cocoa is 1-3 T. per day, but I found that was too much. I either just swallow it with water or put it in my coffee. You have to be careful not to cook it, but it won't mix well with cold liquid, so it does need to be a little warm, or you can add it to a smoothy.

 

Oh, and about thyroid. Drrind.com and Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum both treat hypo-thyroidism even if the testing says it is normal. My doctor did too after I brought Dr. Teitelbaum's book in to him. Drrind.com has a lot of information on diagnosis. Temperature graphing is more accurate than blood testing. You can get thyroid medications legally without a prescription from antiaging-systems.com. ;)

Edited April 2, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[ereks mom]

What helped me: sunshine, physical activity, fish oil, deep breathing/relaxation techniques, a "mantra," and prayer.

 

The mantra is just any positive words to replace the negative ones that keep playing over in your head like a broken record. It could be a scripture, a song, a poem, etc.

 

When I say prayer, I mean prayer of letting go and letting God take over. If you are not the praying type, I imagine it might help to find some way to consciously give up those things over which you have no control, like writing a list and burning it. For a while you will have to keep reminding yourself that you gave up that worry, desire, or whatever it is.

 

These are what helped me tremendously. Others may have more to add.

 

Overcoming the negative thought patterns was very hard, but so important. It helped relieve the anxiety and restlessness that came with depression for me.

[asta]

I don't think you meant to be funny, but your attitude is funny (in a nice way). You made me laugh. What you said makes really good sense. I have hesitated going to another doctor because I didn't want him to read the notes from my current doctor and take his side. Do doctors tend to stick together? That's sort of a rhetorical question - just my mind rambling. You all have given me a lot to think about and I greatly appreciate it!

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

 

I actually try to be light hearted, because it is so easy to get into the mental death spiral of a serious medical condition.

 

I had SO many problems with neurologists throughout the years that I finally threw up my hands and showed up at a brand new guy who either didn't know the other guys or had a poor opinion of them (my GP hooked me up) - WITHOUT ANY RECORDS. He was forced to start from scratch (which, later, I found out he did with all of his patients anyway).

 

It was so refreshing to have someone look at me instead of some dipwad's version of me. And, lo and behold, he figured out the problem. (gasp)

 

One of the hardest things I had to internalize about specialists is that they are specialists for one of a couple of reasons, and the primary one is that they simply don't do more than one thing well. They have tunnel vision. They learn a rubric and, by god, you better fit into that rubric, or you are a problem child. They see themselves as the guardian of the. discrete. knowledge. of the field. New information rarely sways them, weird cases throw them for a loop and are often dismissed as psychiatric problems.

 

The other kind of guy becomes a specialist because they find the field just so darn interesting they can't imagine waking up in the morning and not learning something new in their field. They see their specialty as something that they could never, ever learn everything about, and therefore view each patient as an opportunity to find out something new. Which, of course, is exactly why medicine is called an art - every human being is different, and will respond differently to treatments. There is indeed an art to finessing treatments.

 

Ok, I've rambled long enough.

 

 

asta

[RegGuheert]

I don't have an aversion to medicine. I ask about natural remedies because my endo is an absolute turd. I had tons of energy before thyroid cancer, and now am a slug. He told me it couldn't be my thyroid because the lab work looks great. If anything "I should lower your dosage". He refuses to listen to me about how I used to feel. He sees it as unrelated. I have been reading and trying to find a way to help myself to feel better - since I have little faith in this dr. I have a bil who is a medical dr. and his wife is an herbologist. So I discuss all these things with both of them so I know I'm being safe.

My endo is the only one for hours around. He flies in twice a month to see people in my city - because there are no others. I was hoping, by asking my question about depression, that someone might say something I hadn't thought about. From this experience and others in the past, I've lost faith with the medicial profession. Not that I wouldn't rely on it if it were reliable. But I've been hung out to dry too many times, and have always had to find a way to "treat" myself.

 

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

:rant:

I've had thyroid problems of my own and my experiences with endocrinologists closely resemble yours. When I started to have issues, the worldwide web did not exist. But today, it is a much better source of useful information on thyroid disorders than any doctor ever will be. They simply do not have the time or inclination to educate their customers.

 

But there is a more fundamental problem involved here: endocrinologists make judgments every day based on insufficient measurements of the patients' conditions. I'm not saying the measurements they make of thyroid hormones are inaccurate. What I am saying is that taking a snapshot of a patient's endocrine system once (or even every couple of months) CANNOT give an accurate picture of what is going on. In engineering terms, they are using a sampled-data system to measure a continuously-varying function. To do this properly, Nyquist sampling theory says that you must sample the system more often than once every one-half the time constant of the system.

 

So what does this mean for evaluating the operation of a patient's endocrine system? Well, the endocrine system is a closed-loop system with a time constant of about seven days. At the very worst, you would need to measure this patent's system once every three days for a period of time to get an accurate picture of what is going on. Daily measurements would be even better, mainly because the load (the needs of the body) can change much faster than the regulation system.

 

So am I saying that the measurements endocrinologists make are useless? No. If they find extreme results in one direction or the other, then I think there is some use. What I am saying is that these measurements are useless for MOST of the purposes that endocrinologists use them for, including making diagnoses and prescribing treatments. To make matters much worse, most endocrinologists make these diagnoses based on a SINGLE measurement of their patient's endocrine system.

 

So what are the implications of the above? IMO, they are many:

 

- Endocrinologists may diagnose the patient as having one condition when there really is a different cause for their symptoms.

- Endocrinologists may diagnose "no problem" where one or more exists.

- The condition the patient is experiencing may have gone away by the time they get an appointment for blood work. This is my biggest frustration. What good does it do to measure my endocrine system three months after my symptoms have subsided? Is it surprising to get normal readings when the patient feels fine?

- One would expect many, many endocrine patients have inaccurate or differing diagnoses from their endocrinologists. Frankly, the anecdotal evidence strongly supports this outcome.

 

Despite all of the above, I have yet to hear an endocrinologist even *hint* at their lack of ability to properly measure my endocrine system. Why would that be? I don't know why, but I can guess at some possibilities:

 

- I could be flat wrong. I think I am correct on the above, but please note that I am not a medical doctor, but rather I am a patient who tends to be skeptical of doctors who make firm proclamations based on very limited data.

- While doctors learn about the operation of the endocrine system, they may not learn about the problems of measuring continuous functions using sampled-data systems.

- Doctors are certainly taught specific techniques for diagnosis and treatment and that is what they follow.

- Doctors tend to speak in firm or absolute terms to communicate a sense of confidence to their patients. Most doctors that I have ever met seem to be extremely reluctant to discuss the limitations of their trade anyone outside their profession.

- Learned helplessness: While I recognize this to be a problem with measuring patients' endocrine systems, I can't say that I can offer a good solution. If there is currently no reasonable (affordable) way to properly monitor a patient's endocrine system, then the doctors need to do the best they can with the tools they have. There is little doubt that the situation will change in the future. Perhaps "at-home" endocrine monitoring systems are being developed as we speak.

:rant:

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from visiting their endocrinologist. But I do encourage everyone to study the many freely-available resources that are now available and try to appreciate the hurdles these doctors face when trying to evaluate your conditions. IMO, unless you have a very serious and pressing condition, it is worthwhile to take your time and evaluate many options before starting any treatment regime.

[nono]

 

Most days I have a hard time getting out of bed, and once I do I have a hard time getting anything done. It's hard to not be the person I once was.

 

 

 

I have S.A.D. (seasonal depression). You might want to try this mental trick I used. One day several years ago, after many days of doing nothing, I woke up and wanted to do nothing but stay in bed. And, my mind said to me, "Eh, you did that the last few days. Try something different." And I actually got out of bed and showered.

 

Fast forward to today, several years later, and I still use that trick -- IN BOTH DIRECTIONS! During the winter, after a productive weekend, I'll usually wake up on a Monday feeling like I "should" be doing something. But I say to myself, "Eh, you did that the last few days. Try something different." And I roll over, and grab a little more sleep. I also will take a long nap that day with the kids! And, it'll happen again a little later in the week.

 

I think you've gotten very good advice on this thread, but wanted to throw this out there, simply because sometimes it is hard to give yourself the allowance to be slow and tired. I have found by giving myself some space to do that, I don't hit the "downward spiral" of thoughts that used to envelop me for not hitting my own standards of living on a daily basis.

 

:grouphug:

[MBM]

I agree with asta and others that it could very well be your thyroid. You might find Mary Shomon's thyroid books and website helpful. Tengo Five linked them.

 

RanchGirl recommended John Ratey's book Spark, currently one of my favorites. He explains that exercise helps with depression by balancing the three main neurotransmitters. Females are fine with aerobics, but males tend to do better with bouts of anaerobics. If you decide to try this, let your breathing and heart rate guide you. Walking is fine. Just increase the pace and pump your arms every now and then when you feel up to it. Also, your brain will react differently to mindless running, which I like, than something that requires more thinking, such as tennis or playing catch with your kids.

 

Another doctor I like is Jonathan Wright. His website is not super-swanky, but his information is interesting. If I had a serious, on-going health problem, I'd consider flying out to see him. http://www.tahoma-clinic.com

 

Good luck and keep searching for something to help you.

[MBM]

I have S.A.D. (seasonal depression).

 

Nono, getting sunlight on your eyelids helps your body produce serotonin which helps with the symptoms of S.A.D. You might already know this, but I though I'd mention it in case others don't know. I live in the Chicago area where it is often overcast, but as soon as the sun pops out, I'm outside soaking up some rays. What I really would like to do is move to Hawaii!

[Lovedtodeath]

A couple of things: For some reason it is nearly impossible to be prescribed the correct amount of thyroid hormone from an MD. They either say you are "normal" and don't prescribe anything, or they prescribe too little, or the wrong kind. They very, very often do not run enough tests; they will do one or two of the five tests available and necessary. Adrenal symptoms are very similar and even harder to get treated for.

 

Some people with forms of metabolic disorders involving more than one gland in their endocrine system are made worse by exercise. In every way. One study showed that their brains got less active during/after exercise which is the exact opposite of what should be happening. We won't mention the damage to the body caused by trying to exercise when one has this form of disorder. It can be extremely frustrating to have so many people recommending something that you know only makes you worse.

 

Okay. I am done now.:D

[cillakat]

I have been lucky and persistent enough to treat anxiety and depression 100% with orthomolecular medicine - ie vitamins, minerals, amino acids, essential fatty acids specifically. (not herbs, homeopathy etc)

 

https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AV3S7fNjwg33ZHp0bWN3cV8xNzVndzR3cWpmOA&hl=en

 

Everything I do is in that google doc.

 

To start:

1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight

some great fish oil -

 

1g "regular' fish oil per 10 lbs body weight is a good place to start but if you can take two different kinds, one very high in DHA so that you can get approximately equal parts DHA/EPA it's slightly more physiologically appropriate.

 

The above document has all of my purchasing links.

 

Best to you:)

K

[cillakat]

I had tons of energy before thyroid cancer, and now am a slug.

 

Sounds like you are deficient in zinc, vitamin d, potassium and magnesium. The zinc and D could be lower because of the cancer and treatment.

 

It's late and I can't do a long post, but various components of the tx could absolutely impact your levels.

 

How much D3 are you taking right now? Any other supplements?

 

Best,

Katherine

[sbgrace]

I don't have time to read through all the replies but I'd suggest:

High dose vitamin D (since most are deficient and that will affect energy). A healthy adult can safely take up to 9,000 IU of D3 per day indefinitely. Do check on the thyroid (T3 and T4 levels too).

 

If you need an actual natural antidepressant I've seen great results with 5-HTP and with Inositol. Either are good options.

[cillakat]

There are many things I do to keep my former anxiety and depression issues at bay :

I wrote up this google doc so it would be accessible in one spot:

 

https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0A...R3cWpmOA&hl=en

back to links

email me

 

Depression and Anxiety - Orthmolecular Treatment

❒ My experiences using vitamins, minerals, amino acids and essential fatty acids to treat depression and anxiety are for informational purposes only. It may or may not be right for you. Consider consulting an orthomolecular physician, a health care provider you trust, or an experienced holistic nutritionist.

 

❒ more is NOT better. The right amount is what your body needs....taking more to hopefully see more improvement is generally not helpful and can occasionally be quite dangerous.

 

❒ Please purchase the book Depression-Free, Naturally by Joan Matthews Larson. Without the book, it's impossible to know if what's listed below is right for *you*. The website for her center, the Health Recovery Center. Other good resources are Carl Pheiffer and Abraham Hoffer. I'm not impressed with The Mood Cure - it misses too much key information.

 

❒ iherb.com is my 'go-to' for just about all supplements. I occasionally purchase from luckyvitamin.com if iherb is out of something. I no longer use vitacost for a variety of reasons.

 

❒ prices are *always* the best overall at iherb because an additional 10%-20% is taken off the total at the last step of checkout. I have no connection to iherb and receive absolutely no financial incentive for recommending them. This is simply my personal feeling having ordered from just about all of the major supplement providers over the years.

 

DAILY vitamins, minerals, amino acids and EFAs

 

vitamin D3, first and foremost

everything following assumes you are treating your Vitamin D deficiency. D deficiency is pandemic in the US. Here is some D3 information to get you started

general supplements

information can be found here

(regarding fish oil, a multi, probiotics, enzymes, specific D3 we use etc)

vitamin b6

➝ one per day with a meal (usually breakfast or lunch)

➝Natural Factors, B6 Pyridoxine HCl, 100 mg, 90 Tablets

iherb.com: $5.09 msrp: $8.49 (40% Off)

➝ L- tryptophan + b6 and c = seratonin

 

pyridoxal 5 phosphate - coenzymated form of vitamin b6

➝ one per day with a meal (usually breakfast or lunch)

➝ this form of b6, along with zinc and GLA are critical for treating pyroluria which, while controversial, may be the root cause of

some forms of anxiety

➝ Solgar, P-5-P, 50 mg, 100 Tablets

iherb.com: $15.98 msrp: $19.98 (20% Off)

 

 

5-methyl tetrahydrafolate is the circulating form of folic acid

ie 'active' or 'coenzymated' form of folic acid/ b9 form of folic acid (b9)

➝ one per day with a meal (usually breakfast or lunch)

➝ 5-mthf (a vitamin) is also sold as a pharmaceutical: Delpin

➝ journal articles relating to 5-mthf and dysthymia/depression

➝ Metagenics, FolaPro, 120 Tablets iherb.com $32.25

 

 

zinc (chelated and without copper)

➝ one per day in the middle of a large meal

➝ in combination with sufficient p5p and GLA, zinc has been very effective in treating what I believe is pyroluria (controversial diagnosis)

➝ whether or not pyroluria exists, it's clear that for whatever genetic reason,

some simply have greater zinc needs than others

➝ Now Foods, L-OptiZinc, 30 mg, 100 Capsules iherb: $5.38 msrp: $7.99 (32% Off)

 

 

magnesium (time-release form of Albion's dimagnesium malate)

➝ mineral

➝ two per day am and pm, with or without food = 500 mg dimagnesium malate

➝ Jigsaw Magnesium w/ Sustained Release Technology

approximately $15/month depending on how many bottles are purchased

➝ I can't tolerate magnesium citrate but would take it if I could - it's MUCH cheaper

➝ If you are currently being taking blood pressure medicine (incl spiro) or are

being treated for high blood pressure, heart disease, kidney dysfunction, or

diabetes, please consult your healthcare professional about the safe use of

magnesium, especially when used in combination with other medications to

treat these conditions. Magnesium toxicity can occur in those with kidney

dysfunction, so please speak to your healthcare professional before supplementing

with magnesium.

 

2nd half in next post

[cillakat]

here is my 2nd half

SAMe

➝ AM: take on empty stomach: 2 400 mg tablet 30 min prior to breakfast

➝ Midday: take on empty stomach: 2 400 mg tablet at least 2h after breakfast/snack and at least 30 min prior to lunch (setting timers helps)

➝ can increase or theoretically trigger manic episodes in those with bipolar disorder

➝ for me it's like a mood stabilizer; SAMe evidence

➝ Doctor's Best, Double-Strength SAM-e 400, 30 Enteric Coated Tablets

 

 

taurine

➝ an amino acid

➝ 1 am with breakfast, 1 pm (with or without food)

➝ in combo with magnesium, it has stopped my heart palpitations, racing and arrythmia

➝ the magnesium, taurine and potassium allow me to take stimulant meds and

SAMe without heart related side effects....without the Mg, K and Taurine, I

can't tolerate the stimulants

➝ Now Foods, Taurine, 1000 mg, 100 Capsules

iherb.com: $7.00 msrp: $11.99 (41% Off)

 

 

vitamin d-3 (cholecalciferol)

➝1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight *per day* seems to be needed by most people

to maintain 25(OH)D levels in the middle of reference range

➝ with food...all at one time is fine

➝ if possible, test 25(OH) D 2-3x per year via LabCorp or ZRT.

iherb.com: $19.80 msrp: $39.99 (50% Off) ➝ take with sufficient magnesium, calcium, boron, K

➝ Nature's Answer, Vitamin D-3 Drops, 15 ml iherb.com: $9.17 msrp:$17.95 (48% Off)

 

 

 

fish oil

Now Foods, DHA-500, 500 DHA / 250 EPA, 180 Softgels

iherb.com: $28.68 msrp: $44.99 (36% Off)

➝ 1 per 10 lbs body weight is appropriate for the first few weeks of dosing

➝ 3 per day totaling 1.5 g DHA and 750 mg EPA

➝ why this ratio? to mimic DHA/EPA ratios we'd get from wild fish

➝ best value on fish oil per g DHA/EPA

➝ take with digestive enzymes and/or lecithin granules to aid digestion with

the initial high doses

➝ all at once or spread out; with or without food; am or pm

➝ experiment to find the dosing and timing that works for you

USED to take daily - still take occasionally, as needed, for transient mood issues

Jarrow Formulas, Inositol, 8 oz (227 g)

$16.17 $26.95 (40% Off)

➝ i take as needed when anxious....1/2 tsp 3-6x per day

➝ study doses are very high - up to 18g per day of the powder

➝ extremely extremely safe - even during pregnancy

➝ very inexpensive and likely very helpful for some depression/anxiety

➝ considered a b vitamin

 

tryptophan

Source Naturals, L-Tryptophan, 500 mg, 120 Tablets

$23.87 $38.50 (38% Off)

➝ 1500-3000 mg is considered typical dosing (divide the doses)

➝ you must learn more before taking it to insure that it's what *your* body needs

➝ must be taken on an empty stomach; at least 2h after and/or 30min before food

➝ take with juice

➝ cannot be taken with medications that increase seratonin (SSRI's and other meds)

 

used to take multiple additional amino acids as well - supports neurotransmitter production

choline

phospholipids - lecithin, neptune krill

GLA

 

Health Library Depression

Health Library Anxiety

[cillakat]

back to cillakat's notepad

back to links

email me

Vitamin D Dosing and Levels

nmoL - units used to measure D *everywhere* in the world

ng/mL - units used in the US

** Please be sure to pay attention to the units given on your lab report.

** Quest Labs -problems remain: at this point in time, it still appears that results

need to be divided by 1.3. to obtain results normed to the gold standard.

See vitamindcouncil.org, grassrootshealth.net for further information.

What should my vitamin D level be?

 

❍ 200 ng/mL (500 nmoL) is the lowest blood level of 25(OH)D at which there

has been documented D toxicity. There has never been a case reported at levels

lower than that.

 

❍ 100 ng/mL (250 nmoL) is a typical serum level of 25(OH)D obtained by

lifeguards, from sun only, implying that this is a very physiologically normal level.

❍ 80 ng/mL (200 nmoL) is a target number for some researchers and is still

within the range of a physiological range of what we could achieve from sun -

ie a physiologically appropriate level.

 

❍ 60-65 ng/mL (150-162.5 nmoL) is reasonable number for which to aim.

It's the 'middle of the current reference range for the major US labs. European

and canadian labs are behind the times on this one and are still generally using

a much lower range.

 

❍ 50 ng/mL (125 nmoL) is the point at which we have sufficient substrate

for managing calcium levels and have additional to use for other necessary

physiological functions (300+ other functions in our bodies)

 

❍ 40 ng/mL (100 nmoL) the minimum recommended by currently by

any reputable D researcher (see grassrootshealth.net).

 

❍ 32 ng/mL (80 nmoL) is the bottom of the current reference range.

Still leaves us in a state of substrate starvation.

 

 

☑ 10,000 IU-50,000 IU vitamin D3 is produced in the skin upon full body exposure

to sunlight......with the average of the studies being about 20,000 IU. Do not,

however, take 20,000 IU for more than a few weeks without testing your D levels

regularly. 5,000 IU is a reasonable adult dose to take if not testing. Generally,

testing is typically indicating a requirement of 1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight to

maintain levels in the middle of the reference range.

 

☑ Don't be afraid to take as much D3 as is required to raise your serum 25(OH)D to

50-100 ng/mL (125 nmoL to 250 nmoL) There is a 25-50% variation in serum

vitamin d levels at 'x' amount of supplementation rate due to genetic variations in

vitamin d binding protein. Again, testing is typically indicating a requirement of

1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight to maintain levels in the middle of the reference range.

 

☑ 1000 IU (25 mcg) per 25 lbs body weight per day is a very reasonable dose of

D3 for someone who

→ works indoors midday

→ wears clothes midday

→ avoids sun midday

→ wears any sunscreen midday

 

 

☑ Early AM and later afternoon sun exposure on face, hands and arms is not sufficient

to raise vitamin D levels or maintain optimal vitamin D levels.

 

☑ Fall, Winter and Spring sun exposure is not generally sufficient to raise viamin D levels

or to maintain optimal D levels.

 

☑ A tan does not necessarily indicate sufficient vitamin D levels. It's easy to tan from UVA

without getting sufficient UVB to raise D levels.

 

☑ A person (tan or not) who's been getting

→midday and

→unprotected and

→summer exposure and

→on most body skin and

 

to the point just before a burn occurs, may have optimal D levels during the summer.

 

 

☑ The Vitamin D Council (vitamindcouncil.org) has all of the D research, reference

cites and links to peer reviewed journal articles that you'd ever want to read, plus

several thousand extra;)

 

☑ Grassrootshealth.org has a tremendous amount of good information as well.

Consider joining the study. You will be advancing the public health signficicantly.

☑ Stanford and other major D research centers have podcasts in iTunes that are excellent resources.

[Gooblink]

I've struggled, too. Prayer and daily walking outdoors gets me through rough spots. :) Best wishes to you.