another Food, Inc thread: So discouraged about buying organic!

[Brilliant]

Does anybody else get *really* discouraged when trying to buy organic food?

 

Organic produce (whether at the grocery store or farmers' market) is about 50-100% higher than non-organic. I can typically buy tomatoes, apples, and a few other items for about the 50% higher range than non-organic, so I buy those whenever I see them for a decent price.

 

But when I look at meat & dairy - oh my! I just.cannot.imagine paying that much on a regular basis. Milk is almost 3x higher, eggs are either 3x or 2x higher depending on whether they are free-range or simply have the dubious "cage free" distinction. Other meat & dairy products are similarly priced. I am afraid to try this experiment, but I think it would cost us $600/month more on groceries to go organic. I was reading another Food Inc thread where posters mentioned spending a "little" more for organic; how is that possible?

 

Other than basil and a couple of heirloom tomato plants, I can't have a veggie garden. But even that wouldn't solve the problem of the meat/dairy.

 

Help!

[MamaBearTeacher]

We buy mostly organic and I agree that it's way too expensive! Our grocery bill is so scary and we are only buying essentials. The things that are most essential to buy organic like cheese and other dairy and meat are the most expensive. I do think the prices have gotten somewhat closer to non-organic in recent years but the price of all food has gone up so it doesn't help much. There is more variety than there used to be. As more people buy organic the market gets somewhat better.

[ktog29]

You may have luck finding meat through local farms or independent butchers. Here we are able to buy meat in bulk (organic, grass fed, kosher slaughter) for $2.75/lb for ground beef. That is comparable to our local grocery stores. I have a friend who enjoys discovering places to purchase good local food...I'm very lucky :D

 

We haven't found a local source for organic dairy (except goat cheese but no one in my family liked it).

 

Where do you live?

[musicmommy]

I won't be much help in the area of meat and dairy. It just is more expensive. We are in the process of finding a good place to get half a cow to share with my parents, but we do still expect to pay a bit more than at the store. For dairy, we found a local dairy that we just love. That made it quite a bit easier. For eggs, we've just been fortunate enough to have friends with chickens and they give us eggs in exchange for piano lessons. (Considering the amount of eggs we go through in this house, it's a pretty equal deal)

 

As far as produce goes, we rarely buy with the term "organic" on it. We've gotten to know several of the farmers at our local farmers market and have visited them. They do grow everything organically, but just aren't going to jump through the hoops, etc to get the label of organic. By getting to know our local folks, they've sometimes given us extras which is a huge help in our all boys household. There's also one farm near us that will exchange produce for some help on the farm. My oldest is probably going to do that this summer. It did take time to develop the relationships of course. We mainly get things which are seasonal which generally translates to cheaper also.

 

Not sure if any of this will be helpful, but my little two pennies worth of thoughts.

[Sputterduck]

Move here. Lots of organic produce from the growers that ship their stuff off to America. Get some land and produce your own meat and dairy. At least... that is my plan. I'll let you know if it works.

[Pretty in Pink]

This is one of the reasons that we eat vegetarian 90% of the time. What little meat/poultry we do buy is organic. I bite the bullet on the dairy, even though I'm paying twice the price for it (close to 7.00/gal for Organic Valley milk, and 4.00/8 oz. of Organic Valley cheese). I just limit the dairy around here. We have little 4 oz. juice glasses that are perfect for portioning milk.

[hornblower]

I think one problem is that we've gotten used to very cheap food.

 

This is a link to a google quick view of a pdf showing a bar graph showing percent of income spent on food.

In 1930 it was 24.2%

In 2004, 9.5%.

 

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:bo53KzLsBTwJ:www.ilfb2.org/fff06/51.pdf+what+proportion+of+income+is+spent+on+food&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiqviTGuyDdV0k8gdSEwNwLMEKMK-bIhXLEzvYe6tHJxpCOxRcw0q7UnM9eSyvLF8yYNvZ9DzFAjyWbUN-X5dQ0WYoqz7_ia3WV6CCIi6T4-0f1P4YLbyuv-PtzMhlKYt9HW-BK&sig=AHIEtbR4hFCEUBWRihBYNOlMjGS_U4Zy1A

 

This page has tons of charts comparing historical amounts spent on food.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/CPIFoodAndExpenditures/Data/

 

This chart again lists percent of income spent on food but breaks it down to at home/out. Just slightly different #'s than the first link but very close. I find it interesting to see the drop in home prepared food.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/CPIFoodAndExpenditures/Data/Expenditures_tables/table7.htm

 

Now I'm going to go check my #'s and see what % we're at :)

[Brilliant]

We are in Southern California. Lots of options here as far as specialty health-food markets, but it seems each one is more expensive than the last.

 

A couple of the lower-priced options here are Trader Joes and Fresh & Easy.

 

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who buys her grass-fed beef for $3.15/pound. The place she gets it from only butchers twice a year, so I will have to decide if it's worth adding a chest freezer to the garage for a 1/2 cow next time that comes around.

[Brilliant]

Move here. Lots of organic produce from the growers that ship their stuff off to America. Get some land and produce your own meat and dairy. At least... that is my plan. I'll let you know if it works.

 

Sputterduck, where are you?

 

Having organic stuff shipped "off to America" somehow seems not very environmentally friendly. :)

[Sputterduck]

Sputterduck, where are you?

 

Having organic stuff shipped "off to America" somehow seems not very environmentally friendly. :)

 

 

Most of the organic produce I bought while in California was not grown in America.

 

I'm in Baja now. I accidentally ended up surrounded by organic growers. The little markets around here all sell organic produce that is too ripe to be sent away. It's so good since it's picked ripe. :tongue_smilie:

[BeckyFL]

I love the example the farmer gives in Food, Inc. about eggs. He said he sells his eggs for $3/doz at the farm stand. A gentleman who was appalled at the price, was holding a can of soda.

 

Eggs are cheap even at $3, so I know I can do eggs.

 

I bought 1/4 cow at a $4.25/lb hanging weight. I figured it out and altogether I'm paying about $6/lb. This sounds like a lot but I do get cuts of beef I would never buy because of the price. We don't buy many steaks here and now we actually have filets and delmonico, etc. Also... we don't eat that much meat per person. A pound of beef for 4-5 of us is fine and we've paid just $6 for our meat.

 

Organic milk is important to me so I'm just going to have to spend the money on that one. Again, as they pointed out in the film.... do we want cheap food or good food? Cheap is raised with subsidized corn on factory farms. They can produce so much more, faster and cheaper but do you want it?

 

I'm looking for chickens and hoping to find a local source.

 

I try to buy organic produce when it's a good price and local when it's not.

We don't do everything perfectly, but I do think the animal products can be the worst. If we have to pick and choose financially, we're going to put our money into those.

[Wildiris]

I've eaten organic food for all of my adult life until about a year or so ago when Dear Loved One could no longer find work as a contractor. I shop at Safeway more than I have since my mother shopped there when I was a kid. For years Safeway was the BAD store.

 

In the time that we've changed our shopping habits, I think our over-all health has declined. I refuse to eat Safeway produce, so we don't eat as many fruits and vegetables.

 

Even though our economic situation has not improved, I am back to eating organic, but less of everything. I cannot afford organic milk, that I still buy at Safeway. I am also growing more in the garden. Even splitting my shopping between different stores I still spend $600-$800 a month on food. It is our one indulgence. We grow kids.

[Sputterduck]

I've eaten organic food for all of my adult life until about a year or so ago when Dear Loved One could no longer find work as a contractor. I shop at Safeway more than I have since my mother shopped there when I was a kid. For years Safeway was the BAD store.

 

In the time that we've changed our shopping habits, I think our over-all health has declined. I refuse to eat Safeway produce, so we don't eat as many fruits and vegetables.

 

Even though our economic situation has not improved, I am back to eating organic, but less of everything. I cannot afford organic milk, that I still buy at Safeway. I am also growing more in the garden. Even splitting my shopping between different stores I still spend $600-$800 a month on food. It is our one indulgence. We grow kids.

 

I found Safeway's generic brand organic food to be really, really cheap. And they always had low priced organic produce. It was the best place for me to buy organic, price-wise.

[Jennifer in MI]

I hear you!!!

 

We've found a few local things. It means we aren't eating 100% organic, but it's locally grown and I trust the source.

 

I just found a source for milk. They aren't organic because they DO allow antibiotics to be given to sick cows. Those cows, however, are not allowed to be milked for sale during that time.

 

I found a source for meat. It's Amish. Everything is free-range. They can't guarantee that all the feed is organic, so they can't certify. But, there are NO antibiotics, growth hormones, etc. I bought 33 pounds of meat yesterday for just under $100!! (And, that included 2 pounds of filet steaks!!)

 

Find a CSA!

 

We also found a local source for buffalo meat. We visited the farm. Got a tour. Met the buffalo close-up! Amazing! We buy some of our meat from her.

 

I also do a LOT of veggie meals. I joined a food coop and buy organic dry beans REALLY cheap.

 

Good luck finding your happy medium!!

[Brilliant]

I love the example the farmer gives in Food, Inc. about eggs. He said he sells his eggs for $3/doz at the farm stand. A gentleman who was appalled at the price, was holding a can of soda.

 

Eggs are cheap even at $3, so I know I can do eggs.

 

 

I stopped at a farmers' market, fully expecting to pay $3/dozen. They were charging $5/dozen, so I passed! I ended up buying cage-free vegetarian-diet eggs at Costco for a little over $3/dozen.

[hornblower]

So I just did my math & last year we spent 20% of our take home, after tax $ at the grocery store (which for us includes cleaning supplies, toiletries etc). Another 2.25% on eating out/ordering in.

It would be very hard for us to cut that in half so I can't quite figure out how people are supposedly managing under 10% according to the USDA.

 

Dh wondered whether it's because they're aggregating incomes & he figures Bill Gates et.al. are not spending their full 'portions' on food. I'd like to see average & mean #'s to see how the spread looks.....if there's a larger discrepancy in incomes, it would really skew things.

[Daisy]

Most of the organic produce I bought while in California was not grown in America.

 

This is changing.

 

Agreeing with another poster who said they eat mostly vegetarian. We really cut back on dairy and meat when we switched to organic and I did it slowly.

 

We are also part of a local organic co-op that brings us fresh produce, meat, dairy, eggs, and even grains straight from the farm without the overhead prices of health food stores.

[jillian]

Does anybody else get *really* discouraged when trying to buy organic food?

 

Organic produce (whether at the grocery store or farmers' market) is about 50-100% higher than non-organic. I can typically buy tomatoes, apples, and a few other items for about the 50% higher range than non-organic, so I buy those whenever I see them for a decent price.

 

But when I look at meat & dairy - oh my! I just.cannot.imagine paying that much on a regular basis. Milk is almost 3x higher, eggs are either 3x or 2x higher depending on whether they are free-range or simply have the dubious "cage free" distinction. Other meat & dairy products are similarly priced. I am afraid to try this experiment, but I think it would cost us $600/month more on groceries to go organic. I was reading another Food Inc thread where posters mentioned spending a "little" more for organic; how is that possible?

 

Other than basil and a couple of heirloom tomato plants, I can't have a veggie garden. But even that wouldn't solve the problem of the meat/dairy.

 

Help!

Yeah, this is my issue too. Plus as it is here in WA COL is so expensive to begin with. I would have to go to work just to be able to afford organic. I usually get organic or at the very least free range eggs. We do soy milk most of the time and dd doesn't drink cow's milk (thank goodness). We are trying to cut down on meat more, and only buy wild caught fish/seafood. With our budget I do what I can. I am trying more to get us to "whole foods" first lol

[Alenee]

You may have luck finding meat through local farms or independent butchers. Here we are able to buy meat in bulk (organic, grass fed, kosher slaughter) for $2.75/lb for ground beef. That is comparable to our local grocery stores. I have a friend who enjoys discovering places to purchase good local food...I'm very lucky :D

 

We haven't found a local source for organic dairy (except goat cheese but no one in my family liked it).

 

Where do you live?

 

:iagree:We buy our beef for $2-3/lb. all cuts. Try craigslist for locally raised beef/chicken/pork. This has not only been better meat but I actually SAVED money by going organic in this way.

[duckens]

1) Eat more vegetarian. When I am on a vegetarian-wanna-be kick, we try to eat half of our meals as vegetarian. If that is more change than your family could manage, try one meal/week.

 

I'll be that if you posted a thread asking for favorite vegetarian meals, the hive would provide some good recipes!

 

2) Buy your meat in bulk. If half a cow is too much of a commitment financially and since you may have never done this before, find a friend who will also buy 1/4 of an animal with you.

 

This year, we shared half a buffalo with one of the families for which I babysit. The seller was marvelous about balancing our two orders and the many emails that we both sent to her. She even delivered!

 

--Laura in Iowa

[JenC3]

We paid about $3.40 for a side of grass fed local beef last fall. We split it with my in-laws. I stock up on meat so that I hardly ever buy it. I spend about $15 a week on milk and eggs that are both local and grass fed, free-range. I also buy butter and cheese from that same local dairy with grass fed milk. We have a huge 16 bed raised garden and in 2 yrs our fruit trees & berry bushes will produce. We buy local honey until dh's bees can be harvested. I spend about $600 a month shopping for dry goods and stocking the pantry. This also includes any household stuff and supplements.

[Slartibartfast]

I find that it helps if we participate in co-ops and CSAs.

 

With CSAs you don't always get to pick what you are getting but it does make you learn to cook other things. :lol:

Edited March 22, 2010 by Sis

[Peela]

I also dislike that a lot of our organic produce comes from China, here in Australia. Not so much the fresh food, but the nuts and dried fruits in particular. I also dont like buying organic food that is processed and shipped from overseas very often- sometimes it's just practical, like buying raw chocolate ingredients from South America where they grow them...but there are a lot of canned goods I won't buy.

 

I honestly think it is better to base our diet on fresh, local foods than processed organic foods . And it's better to eat fresh local foods than organic food that has been imported- generally speaking. Of course, we have the benefit of international cuisine and I certainly buy some...but I don't subscribe to organic always being better compared to non organic. I would prefer a non-organic fresh apple froma local farm, washed, to a can of organic apples imported from overseas.

 

In our area we have a lot of Italian farmers who produce what is called "B grade" produce and it is cheaper than the supermarket- and sometimes blemished or very ripe, ready to eat. I frequently buy in bulk, in season, from the local Italian delis, and just wash the fruit and veg well- I am sure it is sprayed but my understanding is that the Italian farmers like to farm "old school", use minimal sprays, and feed their soil manures .(The Asian farmers tend to use the more modern farming methods and it is more polluted). That way, we can eat an abundance of seasonal fruit and veg, affordably. I also get a box of organic produce delivered weekly.

 

For dairy and meat...well, we don't eat that much of either that its too much of an issue. I have stopped drinking milk, although I used to get raw. I buy organic and supermarket mlk, depending on how much shopping money I want to spend. For meat- I suggest cutting right back and making a little go a long way. I found 2 organic chicken carcasses in our health food store the other day, for less than $3 for both- I will be making chicken/veg soup with them. I buy cheaper cuts and make stew, and I buy only free range chicken rather than organic for a couple of chicken meals a week for the kids.

 

I just do what I can. I believe in organic, but I believe in fresh food more, and I just do what I can within our bdget, and I don't feel guilty. I do spend a lot on food, though.

[Hedgehogs4]

don't get me started on the politics of it all...but the bottom line is that if more of us do buy outside the box and start voting with our feet, hopefully they will let us have what we actually NEED. you want a solution to obesity? if mc d's actually charged what organic meat costs for a burger...there's a solution...nevermind

 

ANYWAY...look into buying clubs, local farm shares, local dairies that will allow you to buy cow shares. we are doing this, and IT TAKES TIME AND EFFORT, but it's worth it.

 

cheese is the next thing i need to add to the co-op list...

[jillian]

as a small side note i have to say that i honestly have issues with many of the big companies refuse to offer the full variety of products without HFCS. Yoplait is one example of this--i can find ONE flavor at my local store that doesn't have HFCS in it, only French Vanilla, Creamy is with Splenda. If they are going to use HFCS why not use real sugar. It just pisses me off because I mean really we as a family try to avoid HFCS where we can.

[Sputterduck]

If they are going to use HFCS why not use real sugar.

 

It is far cheaper. That's why.

[jillian]

It is far cheaper. That's why.

oh i know, it's just if it's the "same" as all those wonderful campaigns told us why not use the less processed stuff lol. i can live in my utopia--at least if it's in my mind :)

[joannqn]

I think one problem is that we've gotten used to very cheap food.

 

That's exactly what the movie said, and I'm working on coming to terms with the new prices because I would rather than real food now that I know what we've been eating.

 

We've just watched Food Inc. and King Corn this week, and have already begun making changes. DH says we have to eat what we have, though I want to toss it after seeing the movies. We figure that the money saved from not eating out and not buying prepackaged food will help cover the cost. We're planning on cutting out most prepackaged food, buying better meat, and buying local organic (or not certified but grown organic) produce in that order as we can afford it. We figure any change is better than nothing.

 

We have found reasonable meat prices 40 minutes from here at a meat shop that sells from their own stock and nearby local farms. It's not certified organic but it is much better than what's in the stores. Their beef is hormone and antibiotic free, hand cut, and allowed to graze during the day (supplemented with grain in the evenings). They also have 100% grass-fed beef available in bulk. The pork is local, fed slops, and free of hormones and antibiotics. I forgot to ask about their chicken. The prices are very reasonable, and if we bought a 1/4 or 1/2 may be better than supermarket prices considering you'd get all kinds of cuts for the one price per pound.

 

We'll be checking local farms and farmer's markets for produce. For now, organic from Safeway will suffice and regular produce will be good enough for the rest. Some is better than none for now. We can't to a CSA until we find out where we will be living.

[astrid]

I stopped at a farmers' market, fully expecting to pay $3/dozen. They were charging $5/dozen, so I passed! I ended up buying cage-free vegetarian-diet eggs at Costco for a little over $3/dozen.

 

The way I see it, by buying eggs from the farmer I'm keeping him in business, for just a bit more than I would pay to keep Costco in business. It's not just about eating better, it's about sustainable agriculture.

 

astrid

[Peela]

The prices people on these boards are quoting, and your grocery bills on other threads...you guys over there definitely get food cheaper than we do. A free range dozen could easily be $6 in th supermarket and I have seen organi eggs for$9 a dozen. Our dollars are almost comparable. I easily spend $300 a week on groceries, and thats not buying all organic. True Iam on teh more expensive side of Australia, but a kg of supermarket tomatoes here is something like $5 a kg normally. A supermarket celery is $3 at this time of year- an organic one- well, I bought one for $9 yesterday, and another for $7 at a different store. I base our juices on celery so I try to get them organic.

So..its all relative. And the more organic we buy, the cheaper it should be. But those organic growers need to make a livingtoo...it's more work farming organic than monofarming. And more expensive.

One thing I am trying to do is waste less food. Its quie common for me to throw away old vegetables I havent used... well the compost or chickens get them, but still it feels like waste. I am trying tbe more diligent about using what we have rather than going out and buying more.

[happygrrl]

Agreeing with the above wonderful posts.

 

We buy local, fresh, sustainable and organic whole foods. We eat way less animal products than your average American... cheaper at the checkout and at the doctor's office ;). True that we spend more money on food than anything else, but we enjoy every bite! We have to stay home from the movies and wear our clothing longer to afford the food. Simple living isn't all that simple! I believe we are better for it; we are certainly happier than most people I know even though we make do with less.

 

(exception is coffee, which we source from a sustainable village in Mexico where we know the people (capulincoffee.com))

[MommyX8]

The key is to buy local. It is super expensive to get certified as "organic." But if you talk to your farmer, he'll tell you what he does.

 

We live in a cow share state so we "own" cow shares. We get 8 gallons per week. We used to get 1/2 a cow ($1.10 on the hoof) so I guess that it is about $2.75-$3 per pound when all is said and done. We've been doing that for over 10 years. But this year I am switching to only buying specific cuts from the farmer. He has a store that he keeps stocked with beef. There were a bunch of things that we just never used so it will probably be more cost effective if I just buy what I want. We'll see. If it costs us more, we'll go back to the other way.

 

We have chickens. I never saw a need for buying eggs at the farm. A chicken is a chicken, right? Then I bought eggs at a farm. There was such a difference. But these chickens stayed in a permanent coop. Then we got our own chickens that we "tractor" through the yard. Again, the quality of our eggs is far superior, even to the farm eggs.

 

The food expense/health care expense is totally relevant. I have eight kids and there has been one sick visit (ear infection 17yo) this year. Last year, my little ones had ear infections early in the year. And then there was that H1N1 thing. :glare:

 

I just bought Food Inc and I am really making a push to teach everybody to eat REAL food. I don't know how we lost sight of that.

[Brilliant]

The way I see it, by buying eggs from the farmer I'm keeping him in business, for just a bit more than I would pay to keep Costco in business. It's not just about eating better, it's about sustainable agriculture.

 

astrid

 

I agree with your premise, but...it's not "just a bit more." We go through at least 3 dozen eggs a week in our house. (sometimes, when I buy eggs, the cashier will say, "What are you going to do with all these eggs?" "Umm...eat them??")

 

So at $5/dozen, that would be $60 a month for eggs. I am already in a bit of shock thinking about paying the $3/dozen. We are really going to have to take this in steps.

[Eleni]

I just have the bite the bullet. Part of my motivation was watching my mother die of cancer-she fought for 18 months, but died 2 months ago...my father also died of cancer 11 years ago, and my older brother who was in his 50s died of cancer in 2008.

We moved onto a small farm, and we are growing a lot of our produce...to eat fresh, to can, to freeze, etc. We have chickens for eggs. Sometime this year we will get a couple of dairy goats for milk to make cheese and yogurt and kefir with. Last year I was too busy taking care of my mom to do much with a our little farm, but I bought the majority of our food at the farmer's market. During the off season I buy organic at the store. The only meat we will eat is grass fed. I would like to buy 1/2 a cow, but I need to buy a freezer first. :)

There are options when it comes to eating better. CSA's require a bit of cash up front, but are so worth it...there are even meat CSA's. For milk I just cant handle raw, but I buy it from a local dairy that does not homogenize and pasteurizes at the barest of minimums...and the cows are all grass fed.

 

It does cost more money...but if taking control over our food in this way can help prevent disease in the future, I dont care about the money. I just want to live a healthy active life with a body that is well taken care of, and I want the same for my family. We cut out cable and a landline to free up some money in our budget as well.

[Eleni]

*also due to our religion (Eastern Orthodox) we wind up fasting for about half the year, which means no meat and sometimes no dairy. So that saves money as well.

[BikeBookBread]

We honestly pick and choose our organic. We have also cut way back on our processed food, which has freed up some budget for organic stuff.

 

We have a hard time finding grass fed and organic meats/poultry here, without doing some kind of a co op (we haven't joined one).

 

I buy organic milk (we don't drink much milk; we mostly use it for baking and cooking) and eggs, but I don't buy organic cheese. I do buy cheese for sources I trust, like Tillamook (please don't tell me anything bad about them :glare: as we've toured their factory in Oregon and am content buying their cheese).