BIL had it coming. . .

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dh's BIL is a big goofy guy who loves to ham it up. He means well but does not know when to stop. My kids have a funny relationship with him. On one hand they like him because he tells goofy jokes and will play games with them. On the other hand, they don't like him sometimes or at least view him with caution because he does not know when to back down.

 

Ds12 has really sensitive muscles. It is painful for him to be touched. We were all sitting for a family portrait when BIL, who was sitting in back of ds, reaches forward and started to rub him shoulders. Ds winced and drew back in obvious pain. He told his uncle, "Please stop, that hurts." BIL reached forward and started in again. Ds very calmly got up and moved to another spot for the photo shoot.

 

5 minutes after the photos were done, BIL follows Ds across the room and starts to rough-house with him in a bear hug sort of way. Ds tries to move away and asks his uncle to stop. BIL keeps at it. I could tell the Ds was going to lose it since he was trying over and over to deal with things respectfully and quietly and it was not working. I called out to BIL, "Hey, back off. I think he needs some space." BIL's response was to grab ds in a wrestling home and pick him up off the floor. Ds starts to turn red in the face and to cry. I physically went over and got in BIL's face. I told him, "Back off. He's going to lose it if you don't." When BIL put ds down he was shocked to see ds crying and angry with clenched fists. I told ds to go somewhere to cool down and he did. The rest of the family (except for dh) were all in the same room when this happened. They all sat as still as mice and did not say a thing during or after.

 

Now BIL was really sorry, upset and completely confused that his good intentioned "play" caused ds to be angry and cry. I told him, "If I tell you to back off, you need to back off." He asked me to apologize to ds for him, which I did. BIL didn't join the family in watching a movie and stayed off by himself.

 

I feel frustrated. I know that ds can have a problem with anger but he was trying so hard to deal with things. Ds told me later that "I had a good Christmas but that thing with Uncle ____ sure was stressful."

 

I guess this is a vent. And perhaps a "ds and I weren't too sensitive, were we?" post.

[newlifemom]

I don't think so. You both told him to stop and he didn't listen. I'm not sure if I would go as far to say that was abuse, but I bet some would. Sounds like BIL needs to grow up a little. :grouphug:to your son.

[Rosie_0801]

No you weren't. If Uncle is going to behave like a kiddie on a sugar high, he's going to get treated like a kiddie on a sugar high. Invading someone's personal space is very bad manners, and doubly so if they've just told you you are hurting them. He ought to have apologised directly to your son, but you can't win 'em all.

 

Rosie

Edited December 26, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[katemary63]

BTDT. My brother was like this for years. I finally had to keep him away from my kids altogether. He didn't mature till in his late 30's. You did not over react. When someone is asked to stop, they need to stop or suffer the consequences.

[Luanne]

I have an uncle like that (my mother's sister's husband) and even though he is better than he used to be, he still isn't the best. I don't think he even realizes that most of us don't like to me around him a lot of the time.

[OnTheBrink]

You know, I don't even think it matters if your ds had sensitive muscles or not. If someone is touching you or bothering you and they refuse to stop when asked, then they deserve the consequences. "Back off" means BACK OFF! I think your BIL is a jerk for what he did to your ds and you and your ds had every right to be ticked at him over it.

[ConnieB]

I think your son showed a great deal of respect and restraint.....my ds doesn't have the physical pain that your son does, but doesn't like to be touched a lot......sadly I think my son would have hauled off and whacked uncle after the first "leave me alone" didn't work.

 

Does Uncle not know of ds's condition? If so, I'd probably be quite angry that he'd deliberately continue when asked to stop.....if not, then it's time to enlighten him so that he understands why it's even more important that he stop when this particular child requests it. I would agree that Uncle should have stopped regardless of a medical reason because ds had politely requested stop.....but we all know people like Uncle who just don't know when to stop. Hopefully if he's aware of the medical reasons then he'd make more effort to stop himself. Hopefully.

 

As for your son, I'd make sure he's aware that HE did everything right....respectful and polite requests to stop should have worked, but that there are some people who just don't respect requests like they should and that Uncle was out of line. I worry that your son being told to leave the room would make him feel he did something wrong. I'd hate for him to feel that way.

 

:grouphug:

[Tammyla]

Uncle Bully, I'm glad he finally got it.

 

Imo, that was typical bully behavior to continue when someone clearly asks them to stop. Ita with sensitive muscles aside, he was acting like jerk.

 

I'm sorry to anyone offended by my labeling uncle ___ one. I have a low tolerance for bullies, but especially the adult ones who pick on children.

Edited December 26, 2009 by Tammyla

[Margo out of lurking]

I don't think you or your ds overreacted in the least; I think you both handled a difficult and frustrating situation with a lot of grace and restraint.

 

My extended family would see it as one more reason my kids need to be socialized in public school. At this point, I take that as a compliment. :001_rolleyes:

[Nestof3]

I'm sorry your son had to go through this, and I'm not trying to discount your BIL's behavior, but that is sort of how many uncles act. I'm not condoning it, I'm just saying men relate to boys in a rough-housing way. My brother goofed off my my boys in a more hyper way until he had his own children, and with some men, this is how they relate. I really think close family should know about his difficulties b/c it is unusual for a person to be in pain when touched.

 

When DH rough-houses with Ben, he tells John to stop, he'll scream, writhe, etc. As soon as John stops, Ben initiates rough-housing again. It's a silly game I'll never understand. I tried goofing off with Ben once like that, and he said, "Dads are for wrestling, Moms are for loving."

 

Again, I'm sorry about the situation. I know it's hard to have children who are different.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

No means no. It sounds like he didn't learn that as a child. This is something I'm working at teaching my ds11. He thinks just because he's joking around that it's okay not tp listen when somebody says no. I would expect it from an 11 year old, but, not from an adult. I don't think you overreacted, but, I would talk to bil about it for the future.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Does Uncle not know of ds's condition? If so, I'd probably be quite angry that he'd deliberately continue when asked to stop.....if not, then it's time to enlighten him so that he understands why it's even more important that he stop when this particular child requests it. I would agree that Uncle should have stopped regardless of a medical reason because ds had politely requested stop.....but we all know people like Uncle who just don't know when to stop. Hopefully if he's aware of the medical reasons then he'd make more effort to stop himself. Hopefully.

 

As for your son, I'd make sure he's aware that HE did everything right....respectful and polite requests to stop should have worked, but that there are some people who just don't respect requests like they should and that Uncle was out of line. I worry that your son being told to leave the room would make him feel he did something wrong. I'd hate for him to feel that way.

 

:grouphug:

 

Well, ds hasn't been diagnosed with a medical condition as such. He just has really sore muscles. He didn't even like those gentle baby massages that they suggest you do to calm down a baby. Ds does go to a chiropractor which seems to help. I suppose I should go to a regular doctor about it but since he's fine unless you try to give him a massage, I tend to forget about it.

 

I talked to ds later at bedtime. He knew that when I told him to cool off that I was giving him an escape to calm down. He went downstairs to where my dh was setting up the movie and was able to just get a break from everyone.

[Lovedtodeath]

Uncle Bully, I'm glad he finally got it.

 

Imo, that was typical bully behavior to continue when someone clearly asks them to stop. Ita with sensitive muscles aside, he was acting like jerk.

I wonder why some people are ingrained to act like this? I had to call DH an abuser and go through couple's therapy before he got it. (I had the sensitive, painful muscles as well.) Now, at times, I feel that I have to watch and stop him when he plays with the kids.

 

Jean, it sounds like he would benefit from treatment by a good Natural Doctor. He must have inherited some of your health problems.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm sorry your son had to go through this, and I'm not trying to discount your BIL's behavior, but that is sort of how many uncles act. I'm not condoning it, I'm just saying men relate to boys in a rough-housing way. My brother goofed off my my boys in a more hyper way until he had his own children, and with some men, this is how they relate. I really think close family should know about his difficulties b/c it is unusual for a person to be in pain when touched.

 

When DH rough-houses with Ben, he tells John to stop, he'll scream, writhe, etc. As soon as John stops, Ben initiates rough-housing again. It's a silly game I'll never understand. I tried goofing off with Ben once like that, and he said, "Dads are for wrestling, Moms are for loving."

 

Again, I'm sorry about the situation. I know it's hard to have children who are different.

 

Ds did go through a couple of years where he loved to wrestle. He would wrestle with dh and with a close friend who is more like an adopted uncle. But both men were gentle with him and would back off as soon as he had enough. I know that BIL was trying to relate to him like that.

 

I know that BIL thinks that I coddle ds and that's part of the reason why he thinks I homeschool. :glare: He didn't do it this time but in the past he's asked ds a number of times at each gathering, "When is your mom going to let you go to a real school?"

 

And I hear you on the "children who are different" thing. Ds already stands out because of his high vocabulary etc. For the last two Christmas's all he's gotten from that part of the family are trivia type games. (Not that there's anything wrong with that - it's just how they see him as a brainiac.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean, it sounds like he would benefit from treatment by a good Natural Doctor. He must have inherited some of your health problems.

 

You're right. I do need to make him an appointment. And yes, one of my fears is that he might have inherited some of my problems. I wouldn't wish that on anyone - including BIL!

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I know that BIL thinks that I coddle ds and that's part of the reason why he thinks I homeschool. :glare:

Oh I hate that! I have a good friend who has an autistic son and everyone says that his behavior (including diapers at almost 5 yrs old) is due to her coddling. I know a little boy who was terribly neglected by a drug addicted mom who was potty trained by 3 and talking fine... how do you explain that? :rant:

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I've known quite a few men who think the appropriate way to interact with young boys is to tease and wrestle with them. My boys hate it, and I don't blame them. I feel just as helpless as they do. It doesn't help that they are seen as "shy" or "standoffish" if they don't respond in kind.

[ConnieB]

Oh I hate that! I have a good friend who has an autistic son and everyone says that his behavior (including diapers at almost 5 yrs old) is due to her coddling. I know a little boy who was terribly neglected by a drug addicted mom who was potty trained by 3 and talking fine... how do you explain that? :rant:

 

 

This is part of that public mentality that if a child is x years old then this is exactly who/what they should be like. But reality is that we are not cookie cutter people and what is right for this child isn't the same as what is right for that child of the same exact age. I joke with my husband that I'm going to buy 100 copies of that Stepford Wives movie and force idiots we meet to watch it. Each of my children have their own talents and struggles....none worse or better, just each their own person. I have a very intelligent and logical child, and I also have another that we joke was supposed to have been a part of the 60's flower power movement. And the other kids are somewhere in between. Yet you can't put them in order by age and intelligence....it doesn't work here!

 

Oops...off that soapbox since I'm preaching to the choir!

[lionfamily1999]

I think you both handled it beautifully. I feel bad for your Bil, goofy people do end up embarrassed so often and it is painful to watch.

 

Tell your ds congratulations on such extreme self-control :)

 

And hey, as for you, congrats on self-control yourself... I'd have been tempted to kick him ;)

[Sonshine]

Sensitivity to touch is sometimes a symptom of sensory integration disorder. If he has other symptoms, the right therapy might help.

 

Unfortunately boundary challenged people often don't get it unless they are spoken to so severely they get embarrassed and/or feel bad. They often still don't get it but restrain their future behavior simply to avoid getting yelled at again. I have to do this with my mother occasionally. I feel badly and only do this if necessary, but it is sometimes the only way to get the message across to them.

[Denise in Florida]

Small side note: :001_smile: When my girls were little, one of them was not good at 'reading' when a game went too far. This was complicated because their games would often involve running around screaming and it was hard to tell when 'giggly-no' turned into 'I've had enough no'.

 

We started a rule. Running and yelling no could be part of a game. "Please stop" means stop no matter what. They still use this rule, even during arguments 'please stop' must be honored.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I'll just chime in and agree with everyone else. :) 'Please stop' must mean exactly that. I hated being tickled when I was little... it felt like torture, and I couldn't get my breath enough to say 'stop.' Now I'm very careful with my boys. They loved to be tickled, but I always make it really short and give them a chance to catch their breath, then I wait for them to ask me to tickle them again. :) Adults should be mature enough to guage when kids are enjoying themselves. If everyone isn't having fun, then back off.

[KristenS]

I think you handled it VERY well.

 

I'm going through a med change right now, and am having the most sensitive sore muscles. Yesterday dh could hardly hug me. I really feel for your son! I can't imagine going through too many more days of this.

 

In our house, No means No and Stop means Stop. When I need to explain it to other adults, I simply say, "We want our children to learn that No means No, so that they become comfortable with setting boundaries for themselves, so that 'bad' people will be less likely to take advantage of them, or that they'll know to tell us if something ever does happen. I don't want them to get mixed messages about this." That usually helps ... even if your BIL was just playing, he surely would want to help your kids in that area... help him see that his learning to respect their boundaries is a way of keeping them safe.

 

I remember reading an article in some parenting magazine or other, many years ago. A mom was writing about her teen son and his pals, all horsing around in the swimming pool. The guys started dunking the girls, in spite of their protests. When her son came in later, she pulled him aside for a little chat. She said, "If you won't take No for an answer when you're just playing around, how do you know you'll take No for an answer when it really matters?" He was stung by this, and spoke to his other guy friends, and they ALL apologized to the girls. I thought that was an AWESOME teachable moment, and I've set some of my parenting philosophy around that. Respect for personal space is a big deal around here.

[MrsMe]

Yep, he had it coming. On another note....I'd be more ticked as your DH sat there and said nothing. I also would NOT have apologized for him. He needs to grow up.

 

Good for you though for stepping in!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yep, he had it coming. On another note....I'd be more ticked as your DH sat there and said nothing. I also would NOT have apologized for him. He needs to grow up.

 

Good for you though for stepping in!

 

Oh, Dh didn't sit there and say nothing. He was downstairs setting up a movie for everyone to watch. Everyone else in the room - Grandma, Grandpa, cousins, aunts (including the wife of BIL) sat and said nothing. I told dh about it afterwards.

 

I do agree that BIL needs to grow up!

[joannqn]

IMO, BIL was completely in the wrong. Neither you nor DS did anything wrong. If anything, I'd say you waited too long to act more harshly with BIL, and were much too nice about it. Think about it. Your son asked him to stop or moved away THREE times. You asked him another TWO times and had to get in his face to get him to stop. Is it ever okay for someone to require being asked FIVE times for them to stop doing something that is hurting the other person?

[Lovedtodeath]

IMO, BIL was completely in the wrong. Neither you nor DS did anything wrong. If anything, I'd say you waited too long to act more harshly with BIL, and were much too nice about it. Think about it. Your son asked him to stop or moved away THREE times. You asked him another TWO times and had to get in his face to get him to stop. Is it ever okay for someone to require being asked FIVE times for them to stop doing something that is hurting the other person?

JoAnn, you are so right!:grouphug:

[MrsMe]

Oh, Dh didn't sit there and say nothing. He was downstairs setting up a movie for everyone to watch. Everyone else in the room - Grandma, Grandpa, cousins, aunts (including the wife of BIL) sat and said nothing. I told dh about it afterwards.

 

I do agree that BIL needs to grow up!

 

Oh good. (DH part). :)

[Rosie_0801]

IMO, BIL was completely in the wrong. Neither you nor DS did anything wrong. If anything, I'd say you waited too long to act more harshly with BIL, and were much too nice about it. Think about it. Your son asked him to stop or moved away THREE times. You asked him another TWO times and had to get in his face to get him to stop. Is it ever okay for someone to require being asked FIVE times for them to stop doing something that is hurting the other person?

 

Heheh. I confess I'd have worded his second warning as "Get off him or I'll slap you over the head," and considered it entirely his own fault if he got slapped over the head.

 

Rosie

[Jean in Newcastle]

Heheh. I confess I'd have worded his second warning as "Get off him or I'll slap you over the head," and considered it entirely his own fault if he got slapped over the head.

 

Rosie

 

:lol: I can be a straight talker. But it takes me a while to get talking! Also - there was a little bit of wanting to see how my ds12 would handle it on his own. It was only when I could see that BIL was totally ignoring how he was handling it that I felt like I should step in.