asta Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Clemmons has a long criminal record in Arkansas and Washington. He was released from custody in Pierce County just a week ago, and was facing a charge of raping a child. Family members described him as being in a state of mental deterioration. Last spring, he was also accused of punching a sheriff's deputy in the face. So much for that whole "repent, forgive, rehabilitate" thing. Police surround Seattle home where person of interest in police shooting may be hiding a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 It took me a while to figure out the connection and then I remembered the previous discussion on the Pearls and their admonition to stay with a child molester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 No icon matches this situation. I am in the midst of writing a paper for school developing a Christian parenting pedagogy to assist with my (eventual) private practice where I want to offer parenting classes, etc. I'm re-reading To Train Up A Child and some other Christian parenting authors. It's ......... difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 It took me a while to figure out the connection and then I remembered the previous discussion on the Pearls and their admonition to stay with a child molester. Sorry - my brain leaps in odd ways. It was a combination of articles that included Huckabee's commutation of an earlier sentence: In 1989, Clemmons, then 17, was convicted in Little Rock for aggravated robbery. He was paroled in 2000 after Huckabee commuted a 95-year prison sentence. this is one source, there are others The thought of what Joanne had mentioned about rehabilitation, and then the mention of the incidents. Here is more on that: Documents related to the pending charges in Washington state indicate an unstable and volatile personality. In one instance, he is accused of punching a sheriff's deputy in the face, The Seattle Times reported. In another, he is accused of gathering his wife and young relatives and forcing them to undress, according to a Pierce County sheriff's report. "The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report said. Sadness all around. Huckabee is on record as commuting him the first time because of his age. I wonder what other factors played into it. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 So sad. So preventable. (not having his sentence commuted, not that his wife could have changed him...) :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 the Pearls and their admonition to stay with a child molester. I have a friend who was sexually abused by her father the entire time she was growing up. Her mother was told that the reason her father turned to the daughter is because she wasn't being a good wife to him and fulfilling her wifely duties so the husband had to look for it elsewhere. She was told that when she started being the type of wife god wanted her to be, her husband would stop molesting his daughter. Apparently the mother was a slow learner or something, because the father continued to molest the daughter until she ran away at 16. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 "The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report said. I'm not even christian, but it makes me puke to think ANYONE would EVER use that line to abuse someone. This thing's sentence should never have been commuted. Things like that should rot the rest of their days never seeing human beings again. The people responsible for letting him out should be ashamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 No icon matches this situation. I am in the midst of writing a paper for school developing a Christian parenting pedagogy to assist with my (eventual) private practice where I want to offer parenting classes, etc. I'm re-reading To Train Up A Child and some other Christian parenting authors. It's ......... difficult. I can imagine it is. I truly hope your practice thrives and reaches as many people as possible. I hope that one day, your parenting paradigm so overshadows that "other one" to such an extent that no one even remembers their names, much less their advice. You keep fighting the good fight, Joanne. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I am really confused as to why people are mixing words like repent, forgive and rehabilitate in the same sentence. Rehabilitation is something someone tries to do to someone else. That has nothing to do with Christianity. Christ never said he came to rehabilitate people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy B Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I can imagine it is. I truly hope your practice thrives and reaches as many people as possible. I hope that one day, your parenting paradigm so overshadows that "other one" to such an extent that no one even remembers their names, much less their advice. You keep fighting the good fight, Joanne. :001_smile: Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekmom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 It took me a while to figure out the connection and then I remembered the previous discussion on the Pearls and their admonition to stay with a child molester. When did the Pearls say to "stay" with a child molester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) No icon matches this situation. I am in the midst of writing a paper for school developing a Christian parenting pedagogy to assist with my (eventual) private practice where I want to offer parenting classes, etc. I'm re-reading To Train Up A Child and some other Christian parenting authors. It's ......... difficult. Excellent book!! :) Wait. I was thinking of Sheperding a Child's Heart. Nevermind. Edited December 1, 2009 by Texas T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I am really confused as to why people are mixing words like repent, forgive and rehabilitate in the same sentence. Rehabilitation is something someone tries to do to someone else. That has nothing to do with Christianity. Christ never said he came to rehabilitate people. :iagree: You are 100% correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I'm not even christian, but it makes me puke to think ANYONE would EVER use that line to abuse someone. This thing's sentence should never have been commuted. Things like that should rot the rest of their days never seeing human beings again. The people responsible for letting him out should be ashamed. I doubt you'd have to be a Christian to be disgusted by someone claiming godhood as a way to hurt others :( I am really confused as to why people are mixing words like repent, forgive and rehabilitate in the same sentence. Rehabilitation is something someone tries to do to someone else. That has nothing to do with Christianity. Christ never said he came to rehabilitate people. I come to bring you rehabilitation and to bring it more abundantly....... nope, doesn't ring any bells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 When did the Pearls say to "stay" with a child molester? On page 174 of the book, they state: "If your husband ever sexually handles your children, call the authorities. Testify against him in court, and pray that he gets at least twenty years in prison, so that the children will be grown when he gets out." However, they do not advocate the wife divorce him. "Visit him there, and be an encouragement to him. Get him books and tapes on good Bible teaching" They go on to suggest that children visit the father in the visiting area (presumably a safe place) in order for the kids to see that he is being punished for his actions. I am not agreeing or disagreeing here, just showing where it is mentioned to answer your question. I don't believe they endorse anywhere in this particular book for the mother and the children to continue living with a pedophile. I do not have an exhaustive knowledge of the Pearls though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 When did the Pearls say to "stay" with a child molester? Yes, I would like to know when too. I know personally that the Pearls advocate an abused wife to have the husband arrested and to leave him, even encourage male family members to "teach him a lesson". I would be shocked and appalled that they would think child molesting was ok if wife beating was not. I think that the "Christian counselor" that told the woman that she wasn't giving the pedophile husband enough s%x so he had to molest the daughter wasn't a Christian. NO Christian who follows the Bible or Christ teaching would advocate that. EVER. I remember a Judge in Vermont who gave a (convicted previously 2 times) man who raped a 5 yr old, and he was at least 6ft so get a visual, 6 months probation. I wouldn't call him an Officer of the Law. would you? And he was recognized by the state as competent to give judgment. Same thing with weirdo counselor. He was probably a freak too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 On page 174 of the book, they state: "If your husband ever sexually handles your children, call the authorities. Testify against him in court, and pray that he gets at least twenty years in prison, so that the children will be grown when he gets out." However, they do not advocate the wife divorce him. "Visit him there, and be an encouragement to him. Get him books and tapes on good Bible teaching" They go on to suggest that children visit the father in the visiting area (presumably a safe place) in order for the kids to see that he is being punished for his actions. I am not agreeing or disagreeing here, just showing where it is mentioned to answer your question. I don't believe they endorse anywhere in this particular book for the mother and the children to continue living with a pedophile. I do not have an exhaustive knowledge of the Pearls though. what book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I think that the "Christian counselor" that told the woman that she wasn't giving the pedophile husband enough s%x so he had to molest the daughter wasn't a Christian. NO Christian who follows the Bible or Christ teaching would advocate that. EVER. Sad to say but it does happen. Christian counselors, Leadership within Christian denominations, Pastors and others who claim to be Christian do occasionally make grievous mistakes and say garbage like the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 what book? Sorry, forgot the title. Created to be His Help Meet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Sad to say but it does happen. Christian counselors, Leadership within Christian denominations, Pastors and others who claim to be Christian do occasionally make grievous mistakes and say garbage like the above. If they do not publicly and privately say to them that they are WRONG and made a GRIEVOUS mistake then no, they are not a Christian and didn't read the part of Luke 17:2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. The protection of children is taught throughout the Bible. Men have perverted the importance of their position in the home. They are to be protectors, providers and have servant leadership. This is where the failure of the "patriarchial" families come in and the admonishment of women to "stand by their man" through thick and thin and all evil. The Bible is clear when it says Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. They miss the "as to the Lord" part. Submit only if doing so is in accordance to the precepts of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I am really confused as to why people are mixing words like repent, forgive and rehabilitate in the same sentence. Rehabilitation is something someone tries to do to someone else. That has nothing to do with Christianity. Christ never said he came to rehabilitate people. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 I am really confused as to why people are mixing words like repent, forgive and rehabilitate in the same sentence. Rehabilitation is something someone tries to do to someone else. That has nothing to do with Christianity. Christ never said he came to rehabilitate people. HELLO! Original Poster - Right HERE. Not "people". I know ya'll did NOT miss the 20+ thread on the blog that inspired the submission poll. It's ALL in there: Repentence. Forgiveness. Rehabilitation. Jesus. The Pearls. Christianity. Connect the dots, folks. This is a marathon, not a sprint. asta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 HELLO! Original Poster - Right HERE. Not "people". I know ya'll did NOT miss the 20+ thread on the blog that inspired the submission poll. It's ALL in there: Repentence. Forgiveness. Rehabilitation. Jesus. The Pearls. Christianity. Connect the dots, folks. This is a marathon, not a sprint. asta Actually, I did. I missed 90% of that poll because it was flat ridiculous!! Regardless...rehabilitation has nothing to do with Christianity!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Actually, I did. I missed 90% of that poll because it was flat ridiculous!! Regardless...rehabilitation has nothing to do with Christianity!! Really? One can "get saved" and then continue murdering, stealing, raping, etc? rehabilitation has nothing to do with christianity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Really? One can "get saved" and then continue murdering, stealing, raping, etc? rehabilitation has nothing to do with christianity? That's not rehabilitation! That is Christ's transformation. The world's rehabilitation and Christ's transformation through His blood are on two totally different planes. Rehabilitation is the world's "answer" to fixing people. Christ's work is so far above the world's answer that they can't really even be grouped together. Again, Jesus didn't come that we might be rehabilitated. The word rehabilitate would actually imply that there was something good there to begin with, it got messed up, then it is fixed back to a good thing again. We were born in sin, so we were messed up to begin with. Redemption would be probably a better word even than transformed now that I think of it. re⋅ha⋅bil⋅i⋅tate /ˌrihəˈbɪlɪˌteɪt, ˌriə-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ree-huh-bil-i-teyt, ree-uh-] Show IPA verb, -tat⋅ed, -tat⋅ing. Use rehabilitation in a Sentence See web results for rehabilitation See images of rehabilitation –verb (used with object) 1.to restore to a condition of good health, ability to work, or the like.2.to restore to good condition, operation, or management, as a bankrupt business.3.to reestablish the good reputation of (a person, one's character or name, etc.).4.to restore formally to former capacity, standing, rank, rights, or privileges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 HELLO! Original Poster - Right HERE. Not "people". I know ya'll did NOT miss the 20+ thread on the blog that inspired the submission poll. It's ALL in there: Repentence. Forgiveness. Rehabilitation. Jesus. The Pearls. Christianity. Connect the dots, folks. This is a marathon, not a sprint. asta The 20+ page thread is the reason I used the word "people." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Really? One can "get saved" and then continue murdering, stealing, raping, etc? rehabilitation has nothing to do with christianity? Rehabilitation is one of those words that implies someone else is trying to do the fixing. I hear it when people speak of rehabilitating prison inmates. People ask, "How can we rehabilitate them?" Forgiveness, salvation, conviction from the Holy Spirit to walk in a manner worthy of His calling, and transformation is a different thing. The difference is, the power and initiative belong to God. Programs and psychology can assist, but they cannot replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 That's not rehabilitation! That is Christ's transformation. The world's rehabilitation and Christ's transformation through His blood are on two totally different planes. Rehabilitation is the world's "answer" to fixing people. Christ's work is so far above the world's answer that they can't really even be grouped together. Again, Jesus didn't come that we might be rehabilitated. The word rehabilitate would actually imply that there was something good there to begin with, it got messed up, then it is fixed back to a good thing again. We were born in sin, so we were messed up to begin with. Redemption would be probably a better word even than transformed now that I think of it. re⋅ha⋅bil⋅i⋅tate /ˌrihəˈbɪlɪˌteɪt, ˌriə-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ree-huh-bil-i-teyt, ree-uh-] Show IPA verb, -tat⋅ed, -tat⋅ing. Use rehabilitation in a Sentence See web results for rehabilitation See images of rehabilitation –verb (used with object) 1.to restore to a condition of good health, ability to work, or the like.2.to restore to good condition, operation, or management, as a bankrupt business.3.to reestablish the good reputation of (a person, one's character or name, etc.).4.to restore formally to former capacity, standing, rank, rights, or privileges. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) I think this is one of the areas where Christian-ease confuses things. You may assert all you want the language differences between "saved" and "rehabilitated," however if one looks from the outside in, many people seem to be rehabilitated after a religious conversion and relapse when "backsliding" or whatever. All the talk of religion changing lives seems to be about rehabilitation - or changing what was "bad" into "good" regardless of the dictionary definition. It is somewhat frustrating when words get nitpicked over (from both sides of any issue, I agree). So, to continue the language debate and the Christian-speak, Christianity IS about rehabilitation, because according to the Bible, the conversion is about restoring the soul to the pre-original sin state, yes? And, to further muddle things up, if Christianity was not about "rehabilitation" as some may define it, then why all the Christian counseling, Christian alcohol programs, etc? If one is transformed, then why the need for additional "rehabilitation?" Edited December 1, 2009 by MeanestMomInMidwest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Yes. The world needs you, Joanne. ' I can imagine it is. I truly hope your practice thrives and reaches as many people as possible. I hope that one day, your parenting paradigm so overshadows that "other one" to such an extent that no one even remembers their names, much less their advice. You keep fighting the good fight, Joanne. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 O M G I just read about that guy. How was he out walking around? What the hell? And the family he hurt so much was helping him evade the law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I think this is one of the areas where Christian-ease confuses things. You may assert all you want the language differences between "saved" and "rehabilitated," however if one looks from the outside in, many people seem to be rehabilitated after a religious conversion and relapse when "backsliding" or whatever. All the talk of religion changing lives seems to be about rehabilitation - or changing what was "bad" into "good" regardless of the dictionary definition. It is somewhat frustrating when words get nitpicked over (from both sides of any issue, I agree). So, to continue the language debate and the Christian-speak, Christianity IS about rehabilitation, because according to the Bible, the conversion is about restoring the soul to the pre-original sin state, yes? And, to further muddle things up, if Christianity was not about "rehabilitation" as some may define it, then why all the Christian counseling, Christian alcohol programs, etc? If one is transformed, then why the need for additional "rehabilitation?" No, this is not a semantics issue. To sum up the work of the cross with the word "rehabilitation" so devalues what He has done. Regardless of people who misunderstand the work of the cross, it is not boiled down to rehabilitation. As for your question about the transformed person needing additional rehabilitation, I can't know the heart or relationship to that person with Christ or whether their conversion was authentic. There are a lot of people out there who use God to help them in their moment of need and aren't His true disciples. I think there are many, many people out there who have been misinformed as to the works of Christ and they have formed a false god of Him and made Him into their new best buddy or their "rehabilitator" or the guy who sits next to them in group counseling. He is so much more than that. Yes, He can help us to see the truth in situations and He is our healer, but His ultimate goal is as redeemer and to show humanity how to move from their depraved sin state and into a relationship with God Almighty because we have. no. shot. of. it without Him!!!!!! There's a big, giant wall there without Christ. There is death and hell without Christ!! The cushy movements that seem to have made Him into our therapist these days have negated those facts quite a bit, but they are still true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 My assertion over the difference in meaning has been explained in my post, and I think I made it clear that the difference is that society tries to rehabilitate people. Someone gets found out, they serve prison time, and society is supposed to rehabilitate them. Did they ask for it? Did they care? Did they feel conviction and remorse? Would they be doing the same thing had they not been caught? I see the difference between the two in my children. Child # 1 I may find out my child has been sneaking candy in the middle of the night. I confront him, and he says he's sorry. Sorry for what? Getting caught? Sorry for actually sneaking the candy? Will he continue to sneak the candy? Child # 2 My other child came to me and confessed that he sneaked candy three nights ago. He is sorry and wants to change. He may need to take the candy out of the room to help him do so. I never argued that a person may need to avoid things that have been temptations. With child #1, I can correct and "punish" him all I want about the need to not sneak candy, but I don't believe my doing this will ultimately change him. I can try to rehabiliate him, but there has to be a change in him. Fine, you can call it rehabilitation in child # 2, but I will always see that term referring to force one puts onto another -- something someone tries to do to someone else. We are indeed told to seek counsel, but again, we move first. I think this is one of the areas where Christian-ease confuses things. You may assert all you want the language differences between "saved" and "rehabilitated," however if one looks from the outside in, many people seem to be rehabilitated after a religious conversion and relapse when "backsliding" or whatever. All the talk of religion changing lives seems to be about rehabilitation - or changing what was "bad" into "good" regardless of the dictionary definition. It is somewhat frustrating when words get nitpicked over (from both sides of any issue, I agree). So, to continue the language debate and the Christian-speak, Christianity IS about rehabilitation, because according to the Bible, the conversion is about restoring the soul to the pre-original sin state, yes? And, to further muddle things up, if Christianity was not about "rehabilitation" as some may define it, then why all the Christian counseling, Christian alcohol programs, etc? If one is transformed, then why the need for additional "rehabilitation?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 My assertion over the difference in meaning has been explained in my post, and I think I made it clear that the difference is that society tries to rehabilitate people. Someone gets found out, they serve prison time, and society is supposed to rehabilitate them. Did they ask for it? Did they care? Did they feel conviction and remorse? Would they be doing the same thing had they not been caught? I see the difference between the two in my children. Child # 1 I may find out my child has been sneaking candy in the middle of the night. I confront him, and he says he's sorry. Sorry for what? Getting caught? Sorry for actually sneaking the candy? Will he continue to sneak the candy? Child # 2 My other child came to me and confessed that he sneaked candy three nights ago. He is sorry and wants to change. He may need to take the candy out of the room to help him do so. I never argued that a person may need to avoid things that have been temptations. With child #1, I can correct and "punish" him all I want about the need to not sneak candy, but I don't believe my doing this will ultimately change him. I can try to rehabiliate him, but there has to be a change in him. Fine, you can call it rehabilitation in child # 2, but I will always see that term referring to force one puts onto another -- something someone tries to do to someone else. We are indeed told to seek counsel, but again, we move first. Yep. That was a very good explanation!!! Rehabilitation is forcing an un-sorry individual to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Oh, and I just had this crazy thought regarding studies. I agree you can study rehabilitation efforts, success and such, but what about the success rate of Jesus's life, death and resurrection? Perhaps if He knew his success rate ahead of time (which He did), would he have bothered? Was He just naive to think that He could come and transform? Why didn't he tell certain groups of people to not even bother coming to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Rehabilitation is what counselors and doctors attempt to do with criminals. Unless the person REPENTS- which literally means to turn the other way- they cannot be rehabilitated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosy Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 In case anyone is following the news story that prompted this article, the man was caught and killed and his relatives and friends who helped him hide have been or are being arrested. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010393433_webarrest01m.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Excellent book!! :) Wait. I was thinking of Sheperding a Child's Heart. Nevermind. Actually, I'm refuting that one, too, from theological, practical, child development and psychological standpoints. At least Tripp doesn't actually call discipline his "sanctification" of children. He just believes the Bible gives us 2 discipline tools: communication and spanking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I don't understand what Joanne, the Pearl's, and a cop killer have in common. This thread makes no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I come to bring you rehabilitation and to bring it more abundantly....... nope, doesn't ring any bells. Rehab is for quitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) Actually, I'm refuting that one, too, from theological, practical, child development and psychological standpoints. At least Tripp doesn't actually call discipline his "sanctification" of children. He just believes the Bible gives us 2 discipline tools: communication and spanking. I applaud the book and got much from it. It has helped me to shape their character in guiding their actions towards Christ's goals and the "heart" of the issue rather than "mind me because I say so." I don't trust in psychology or child development gurus. I don't really feel that the advice there is that helpful. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt!! They change like the wind. ;) Any opinions there would rank far below Biblical guidance and the encouragement I have recieved from moms who I have seen fruit in the lives of their children and their relationships with them. I was handed that book by just such a mom. Her fruit speaks volumes!! :) Edited December 1, 2009 by Texas T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 I don't understand what Joanne, the Pearl's, and a cop killer have in common. This thread makes no sense to me. The guy was a repeat offender. He had been imprisoned. Our penal system is built upon the premise of rehabilitation. The guy also happened to be a pedophile. In the thread I linked, Joanne mentioned that she did not feel that it was possible to rehabilitate a pedophile. Many people disagreed with her. The thread that I linked had spun out of numerous points based in the Pearl family's views on submission, including one which stated that a woman should stay with a husband that had abused their children as long as he had repented. The cop killer repented to his parole board for his crimes. It is what helped get him out of prison. And then he raped a kid (among other things). Even so, his family stuck by him and hid him from a state-wide man hunt. Guess he wasn't rehabilitated. Guess Joanne was right. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 The guy was a repeat offender. He had been imprisoned. Our penal system is built upon the premise of rehabilitation. The guy also happened to be a pedophile. In the thread I linked, Joanne mentioned that she did not feel that it was possible to rehabilitate a pedophile. Many people disagreed with her. The thread that I linked had spun out of numerous points based in the Pearl family's views on submission, including one which stated that a woman should stay with a husband that had abused their children as long as he had repented. The cop killer repented to his parole board for his crimes. It is what helped get him out of prison. And then he raped a kid (among other things). Even so, his family stuck by him and hid him from a state-wide man hunt. Guess he wasn't rehabilitated. Guess Joanne was right. a Ah, okay. I don't believe they can be rehabilitated either. I still think it's a really weird point to make. There are a lot of people that think pedophiles cannot be rehabilitated. From what I have read about this man he just recently made the leap to being a pedophile. He was let go and let out for numerous other crimes. I think the linking of all three is still a reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I think the linking of all three is still a reach. Quite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 O M G I just read about that guy. How was he out walking around? Because Mike Huckabee commuted his 95 year sentence. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Because Mike Huckabee commuted his 95 year sentence. astrid Actually, he's been in prison since then and in and out of jail. I wouldn't completely blame Huckabee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I also don't think you can rehabilitate a thief, murderer, liar, etc. I don't think people can change other people. Influence? yes Assist? yes The guy was a repeat offender. He had been imprisoned. Our penal system is built upon the premise of rehabilitation. The guy also happened to be a pedophile. In the thread I linked, Joanne mentioned that she did not feel that it was possible to rehabilitate a pedophile. Many people disagreed with her. The thread that I linked had spun out of numerous points based in the Pearl family's views on submission, including one which stated that a woman should stay with a husband that had abused their children as long as he had repented. The cop killer repented to his parole board for his crimes. It is what helped get him out of prison. And then he raped a kid (among other things). Even so, his family stuck by him and hid him from a state-wide man hunt. Guess he wasn't rehabilitated. Guess Joanne was right. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Actually, he's been in prison since then and in and out of jail. I wouldn't completely blame Huckabee. But if his 95 year sentence had not been commuted, he would still be IN jail, serving at least a good portion of that 95 year sentence, no? At the time his sentence was commuted, he was a long, long way from hitting that 95 year mark, or even 47.5 years. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) But if his 95 year sentence was not commuted, he would still be IN jail, serving at least a good portion of that 95 year sentence, no? At the time his sentence was commuted, he was a long, long way from hitting that 95 year mark, or even 47.5 years. astrid True, but he also has had numerous times that the system failed to properly prosecute him for other crimes. Judges let him off. He was 16 and got a huge sentence. Does anyone know what he did to earn it? I cannot find it. So then should we stop commuting sentences altogether and pardoning people? From what I understand Huckabee's staff asked the prosecutors for information on why they shouldn't commute the sentence. He only heard from the judge and the judge agreed with the commuting. Clemmens was in prison again and should have been served with 3 more crimes but someone dropped the ball and a judge let him walk. Yeah, he should have stayed in prison all along, but he didn't. He should have ended up in jail for life a second or third time. Why was he even out on bail??? A child rapist??? Many, many people dropped the ball. BTW, I never voted for Huckabee and likely never would. I was also a neighbor to one of the officers 10 years ago. This hits home hard. Edited December 1, 2009 by True Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Yes, many people let this guy down, starting, most likely, at birth. You asked, So then should we stop commuting sentences altogether and pardoning people? Um.....that's a pretty big assumption to make, based on my one-sentence statement that his sentence was commuted. And you might want to ask Nestof3 that question-- she stated further down the thread that she doesn't believe that theives can be rehabilitated. Fact is, he was out, and he shouldn't have been. Terrible instance of hindsight being 20/20. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.