When is it curriculum/style and when is it just plain laziness

[AuntPol]

I've had it up to HERE with my dd (10) and her attitudes. This is our first full year homeschooling her. We did 1 quarter last year and it was a light schedule since it was just one quarter. I homeschooled her younger brother the whole year last year.

 

I have found a perfect groove for my DS (9). We do Ambleside Year 4, Singapore Math, Latin for Children, Elementary Spanish and lots of hands on science. He is flourishing. He loves all the books. He loves to discuss the books. He gives great narrations. He can dohis math independently and I can trust him to do it right. He loves everything and usually extends his learning on his own.

 

I do the same thing with my DD (10) -only changes are she is Singapore 4B where he is in 5B. She hates everything. She hates read alouds, hates narration, hates math, hates science, hates history. She hates everything that involves school or effort. I think one issue is she was in gifted classes in public school and NEVER once had to do anything remotely challenging. She does the bare minimum in everything (school or extracurricular). She can not work independently. She will lie and cheat and take short cuts whenever she can. I have had to spend most of year working on character issues. She does not have any learning challenges to overcome. She is gifted and has lots of academic ability -just not interested anything but friends, clothes, video games, tv shows and other superficial things. She is very materialistic and wants me to buy, buy, buy and so we conflict over that A LOT.

 

I don't really know what to do with her. I am not convinced that it's the curriculum but I do think she would prefer to be given a bunch of very easy workbooks and fill them out (as long as she doesn't have to correct herself). We've made major headway with her abilities since we pulled her out. She's improved by 2 grade levels in almost every subject. However, she has no joy. She just wants to do the least amount she has to do and then play games. She keeps asking me to unschool her (which means just let me go play games and watch TV -and not the educational things on either)

[LibraryLover]

I have a 10 yr old dd and we are unschoolers of sorts...and my child does not spend hours on the computer. Although she does play lots, and she reads for hours daily.

 

She's very intelligent (would be in the gifted program at ps).

 

She is not behind in anyway, and is advanced in most ways. Her reading comprehension off the charts and she can discuss 'high school' and middle school literature. She is a natural at grammar. She loves science. She understands math concepts well. She was on top of every bit of theme/analogy etc when I did The Witch of Blackbird Pond with her teen sister a couple of years ago, and she was only 8 then. At 10, she likes to discuss 'foreboding' etc.

 

So, I don't see that my 10 yr old needs a bevy of forced curric. She finds amazing things to do. We aren't locked into arguments...and that means she is open to many things she might not be otherwise.

 

Few people here would say this, I think. So I will say it. lol Slow down, maybe back off and try to reclaim your relationship. Lest anyone think I am saying "Be a pal, not a parent', let me put the brakes on that. I am saying be a parent, but be a parent who helps their child find the joy in learning, even if that means slowing down.

 

Go to a play, a concert, read something without a 'purpose' behind it. Laugh. Play Boggle. Snuggle and watch Enchanted. Have some fun and ejoy each other. If you celebrate the winter holidays, it's a perfect time to break and focus on other ways of learning and being together. It's hard to be stuck in an adversarial relationship with your child.

Edited November 21, 2009 by LibraryLover

[thowell]

let me know when you find the answer. i am going through this with dd9. We have switched programs already this year and now she hates what she is doing. She has been doing math for 2 hours and has 1 1/2 pages done. This is all review from last year but she thinks I will give up. DD6 is fine with whatever I give her. I am considering going to a worktext next year for Math and Grammar since nothing seems to make a difference anyway. I really feel for you!

[TxMama]

She is gifted and has lots of academic ability -just not interested anything but friends, clothes, video games, tv shows and other superficial things. She is very materialistic and wants me to buy, buy, buy and so we conflict over that A LOT.

 

She just wants to do the least amount she has to do and then play games. She keeps asking me to unschool her (which means just let me go play games and watch TV -and not the educational things on either)

 

You just described my son about 9 years ago.:lol:

 

Although a change in curriculum might engage her if her attitude is still crummy you can change what you are doing and not get anywhere.

 

Looking back, I would have done him a world of good by pulling.the. plug.

 

I should have but didn't remove the distractions. Our best school year.....no wait our best YEAR ....was the one that we did not have the tv/gaming/computer to distract him. He was also materialistic just like your dc and my best advice is to stop buying her stuff. period.

 

 

We've had a hard couple of years around here so you are really on the right track of dealing with it right now at 10 and not waiting until 17 or 18.

[LibraryLover]

You might enjoy this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-Kids-Parents-Matter/dp/0375760288

 

He's not a hser, but he is all about strengthening the parent/child relationship.

[melmichigan]

We had this when my DD first came home. Then we initiated the rule that there is no TV, computer, or games unless school related during what would be traditional PS hours. That doesn't mean they have to do school the whole time. They can have free reading time, writing, drawing, etc. if their school work is finished but none of the other. My DD also now has to "earn" her Nintendo DS, it isn't a given. This policy is in effect for all the children. It has made a world of difference here.

 

It also took a while for my DD to realize that I didn't necessarily always expect a 100% if she had truely given her best effort. It took a while for her to realize it was alright not to be perfect, and just as important to be challenged. Sometimes we learn more from our mistakes.

[sarahv]

Unfortunately, I have a story that you probably do not want to hear, but I wanted to encourage you to keep on track with your character training.

 

A relative of mine just graduated a year late from high school because she was lazy. Very smart, talented girl, but just hated school work. In fact, she hates work period, and has already (at 20 years old!) been fired from three jobs for not showing up to work or being habitually late. She would have loved to have been homeschooled, because that meant she would have been able to fill out workbooks and sleep until 2:00pm every.single.day. Literally, all she cares about is friends and getting more tatoos. She's an absolutely gorgeous 20 year old, that has no drive, ambition, or work ethic. I often wonder what could have been done had her parents begun working on these negative character problems when she was 10!

 

I know this is such a sad story, but I wanted to encourage you to keep up with the character training. She's only 10, not even into the teenage years yet, when sooooo many things become habit. There's time yet, she's so far from grown! You're mom. You know in your heart of hearts what she needs. Mom's tend to know what is best.:001_smile: If you feel it's a character issue, then address the character issue. If you feel it's an academic issue, then address curriculum. It may even be some of both.:tongue_smilie:

 

I know if it were my girl, there would be some hard lessons for her to learn in the next couple of years. I heard a story once about a mom who had just bought a video game for her son, but her rule was, you had to finish your school work before you could game (they homeschooled). One day soon after, she caught him playing his game before school even started. Immediately, she took the game and her son to Goodwill to donate it. She said she had very little trouble about games before school work after that. The one thing that stuck out in my mind was that this incident taught the boy that mom cared more about him and his academic success than she did about the money she spent on the video game. This, I believe was the most important lesson the boy could have learned from that situation.

 

My mom was a tough cookie in this regard. Your friends did not exist if you didn't get your homework done. There were no school sports participation, or any other social event that you might want to go to. There were no special rewards for getting school work done, except experiencing the personal accomplishment of a job well done and the free time that it brought.

 

So keep doing what you know is best. She'll thank you for it later. Maybe alot later, but it will come eventually. I am eternally thankful for my mother's tough stand with me as a teen. Did I appreciate it then? Absolutely not. Do I appreciate it now? Like you wouldn't believe. :001_smile:

 

**I do sincerely apologize if my words are too direct. I tend to be that way. Take it with a grain of salt, and as always, it's just my honest opinion.:)

[thowell]

Unfortunately, I have a story that you probably do not want to hear, but I wanted to encourage you to keep on track with your character training.

 

A relative of mine just graduated a year late from high school because she was lazy. Very smart, talented girl, but just hated school work. In fact, she hates work period, and has already (at 20 years old!) been fired from three jobs for not showing up to work or being habitually late. She would have loved to have been homeschooled, because that meant she would have been able to fill out workbooks and sleep until 2:00pm every.single.day. Literally, all she cares about is friends and getting more tatoos. She's an absolutely gorgeous 20 year old, that has no drive, ambition, or work ethic. I often wonder what could have been done had her parents begun working on these negative character problems when she was 10!

 

I know this is such a sad story, but I wanted to encourage you to keep up with the character training. She's only 10, not even into the teenage years yet, when sooooo many things become habit. There's time yet, she's so far from grown! You're mom. You know in your heart of hearts what she needs. Mom's tend to know what is best.:001_smile: If you feel it's a character issue, then address the character issue. If you feel it's an academic issue, then address curriculum. It may even be some of both.:tongue_smilie:

 

I know if it were my girl, there would be some hard lessons for her to learn in the next couple of years. I heard a story once about a mom who had just bought a video game for her son, but her rule was, you had to finish your school work before you could game (they homeschooled). One day soon after, she caught him playing his game before school even started. Immediately, she took the game and her son to Goodwill to donate it. She said she had very little trouble about games before school work after that. The one thing that stuck out in my mind was that this incident taught the boy that mom cared more about him and his academic success than she did about the money she spent on the video game. This, I believe was the most important lesson the boy could have learned from that situation.

 

My mom was a tough cookie in this regard. Your friends did not exist if you didn't get your homework done. There were no school sports participation, or any other social event that you might want to go to. There were no special rewards for getting school work done, except experiencing the personal accomplishment of a job well done and the free time that it brought.

 

So keep doing what you know is best. She'll thank you for it later. Maybe alot later, but it will come eventually. I am eternally thankful for my mother's tough stand with me as a teen. Did I appreciate it then? Absolutely not. Do I appreciate it now? Like you wouldn't believe. :001_smile:

 

**I do sincerely apologize if my words are too direct. I tend to be that way. Take it with a grain of salt, and as always, it's just my honest opinion.:)

 

This was just what I needed to hear!

[Greta]

Unfortunately, I have a story that you probably do not want to hear...

 

I appreciate hearing it. Thank you for posting.

[TxMama]

She's an absolutely gorgeous 20 year old, that has no drive, ambition, or work ethic. I often wonder what could have been done had her parents begun working on these negative character problems when she was 10!

 

 

One day soon after, she caught him playing his game before school even started. Immediately, she took the game and her son to Goodwill to donate it. She said she had very little trouble about games before school work after that. The one thing that stuck out in my mind was that this incident taught the boy that mom cared more about him and his academic success than she did about the money she spent on the video game. This, I believe was the most important lesson the boy could have learned from that situation.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

It is much easier to take away a 10yo's video games than to take away a 17yo's car or watch your 20yo flounder in life.

[lovemykids]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

It is much easier to take away a 10yo's video games than to take away a 17yo's car or watch your 20yo flounder in life.

 

This is a tough age. I believe you need to be strong and give her ultimatums. If you are a strong believer in school at home when they reach a certain age, like I am. Then you need to let her know the rules, there will be no unschooling, if she doesn’t like it she can head out the door to PS so she can get a taste of the real world and realize just how easy she had it at home. LOL. She need to appreciate what you are doing for her, you are taking your time to give her a tailored, excellent education. You are looking ahead to her future and trying to raise her the best way possible. I believe that girls this age can be lazy.

On the flipside, she should have time to develop her interests and enjoy being a kid, but I think that she needs to show some discipline in her academics first to really be able to have spare time. Try making up a daily checklist, if she completes everything then she may have the rest of the day, free. If she does well with this, reward her with some days off, see if you can make a four day work week; so that she feels she has ample time to follow her own path. I would recommend requiring reading in her free time though; she should at least read to match the time spent on video games or TV. This could also be a time of hormonal surge, so keep that in mind when dealing with her.

These are just some of my thoughts. I am sure you will get many others, best wishes to you in sorting out this problem. (um, we had this same problem recently, can you tell?)

:tongue_smilie:

[AuntPol]

I would slow down but....

 

She does not want to read anything with me. Anything that I pick out, she rejects. If she picks it out and I say it's fine, she immediately rejects it. She will not read anything from library, it has to be bought and bought NEW. Used books are not good enough for her. Then when you buy new, she may or may not read it. The only things she will read is Diary of a Wimpy Kid (has read it about ten times this year) and Rainbow Magic Fairy books.

 

I have let her pick out her own curriculum. I bought Learn to Write the Novel way for her upon her request. She loves to write but said it was too hard. I bought the entire Beautiful Feet History of Horses curriculum because she loves horses and she wanted it. She read one chapter of one book and said it was boring. She said she liked Miquon so even though she is in 5th grade and beyond Miquon, I went and bought all the Miquon books for her. That lasted about a month or two and then it was too much work. She says she would rather have more hands on stuff in history so I buy books with the craft ideas. However, she wants to do the hands on but not the reading. She would rather do just the reading than spend time doing the craft because that takes even more time. She likes cool hands on science stuff but doesn't want to know the science behind, just look at cool explosions and be done. She takes horseback riding but is mad because she has to do certain things first to do the cool stuff. She just wants to ride and have fun. She is in Scouts but again, fine with cool stuff like lock-ins and campouts but hates the badgework. She is in drama, dance, and voice. She wants to be the star but doesn't want to put in the practice to get those roles. Again, part of this is because she is naturally gifted and talented. She picks up basic stuff very easy. She initially excels in every sport she tries. She could go far in most sports because she has the talent, just not the drive and willlingess to work hard. Same with academics.

 

I don't find our schooling that rigorous, her younger brother is flourishing with it. I know it's more rigorous than the local public school and many other homeschools but it's on par with many ideal private schools. It is not out of sync with her abilities. When she thinks she is going to get something for it, she can do remarkable narrations of the toughest novels, tough math, ace her Latin test, write neat, etc. Some of the Ambleside selections are tough but we do them as read alouds. About half of homeschool is read aloud oriented. We don't do busywork. We have very little worksheets (Latin, Spanish, and Math only). I've tried to do different things to perk it up and she likes some things UNTIL she finds out school will go longer to fit everthing in. We usually have school about 5 hours a day (w/1 hour break about halfway), which of course is 2 hours shorter than public school and no homework.

[Leila]

I think I knew that child 24 yrs. ago:tongue_smilie: I am talking about myself. I remember being that young and I got to all sorts of trouble with my mom. I admit I was a very lazy, stubborn, self-centered child growing up. I was bright too and always one of those kids that learn fast and never have to study a lot. But I was bad...I push and push and know exactly that if I push harder I will get what I want. Looking back and seeing me right now I don't know what wrong with me then. But there is a very big factor that led me to change and turn around. And it is because of my mom's undying love and undying discipline. You have to be strong for her. My mom puts it this way. Disciplining me is like having a tug-of-war with me. And she made sure she held that rope longer than I did. Be consistent. Don't feel guilty of giving her punishments for her actions and wrong behaviors. I know she will keep pushing you but let her know her boundaries. Don't be afraid to set rules. And do what you say you're going to do. She will turn around eventually. Looking back, I feel so sorry for my mom back then. And every time we get to talk now,I still say how sorry I am for being that child. But I am a changed person now because of her. I did what I was supposed to do and achieved my goals because of her and my children are being raise the same way I was raised. I love them dearly but I am not afraid to discipline them when needed.

I hope this helps.

[LibraryLover]

I think you will really like the book I suggested, then. She sounds peer-dependant, and that's where I would start. Relationship- building is number one.

[TKDmom]

I don't have kids that age, yet. But I have a gifted, lazy, but perfectionist daughter. And I remember being exactly the same way. There is something to be said for backing off, but if you've tried that and it didn't work, I totally agree with the others who have said to take away all privileges. I know it would be incredibly difficult for me to do, but take away all the materialistic stuff that she loves so much, and maybe even cut out the activities, until she realizes that she can't get away with walking all over you. Then, maybe you could add those things back in if it doesn't send her back to obsessing over unimportant things again.

 

Sometimes I think that being gifted is more burden than blessing. When everything comes easy, you get used to never making an effort. And it can be really frustrating to have to do anything that you're not perfect at, so you don't try. I remember having no respect at all for teachers who let us get away with cutting corners on our education. Yes, I'd do everything I could to cut corners, but I despised the teachers who let me get away with it. The teachers that I really loved were the ones who expected a lot out of me. In particular, I had one English teacher who set high standards, and I could tell she did it because she understood that her students were smart and that she could expect great things out of us. I got an F on my first essay assignment from her. It was a complete shock to me, because I'd breezed through my first 2 years of high school English (and gotten A's) without doing a single thing. Well, let me tell you, for the first time in my life, someone expected me to stretch myself, and I did it. I learned so much that year, and I loved my teacher for expecting better of me than I'd ever expected out of myself.

 

:grouphug: and I hope you find the path that will work best for you and your daughter.

[ElizabethB]

I just finished reading "Say Goodbye to Whining, Complaining, and Bad Attitudes... in You and Your Kids" after someone here recommended it, I highly recommend it!

[5LittleMonkeys]

Sounds to me like this dc has too many things in her life distracting her from what is important.

 

I have had some of these issues with my oldest when I pulled her out of ps the middle of 2008 school year. After 1 month of the same type of behavior you mentioned I pulled the plug on everything. No tv (we actually cancelled the cable and have no intention of getting it back), no computer, no video games, no phone, no outside activities at all other than church. I wrote her a letter explaining what was expected of her and told her that going back to ps was not an option. I explained in the letter that I was determined to save our relationship because she was too important for me to loose. She spent a week being totally miserable in her room alone. Then on a Monday when the rest of us were preparing to start school at the dining room table she came downstairs, sat down and handed me a note that simply said "Sorry. I love you." I told her that all the things she lost would be restored to her one at a time as she earned them. The electronics were the last to come back. It's amazing how a bored dc will be more than willing to pick up a library book.

 

It's been wonderful ever since. She is a changed girl from that one I brought out of ps. She is like a super student now. She completes her work efficiently and accurately and is totally involved in helping me provide her with a great education. She still prefers her computer to reading a great bit of literature but at least there is total respect between us and she will read what I've asked her to read before getting on the computer or game system. Which by the way is only 1 1\2 hours broken into 30 minute sessions a day.

 

 

As for the materialistic tendencies I would wager to say that if the tv goes bye-bye the desire for things will go too eventually. Until then make it a strict rule that there will be no new things except for on birthdays and Christmas (if you celebrate either). That is the way it has always been in our house.

 

Not trying to tell you exactly what to do but If I were in your shoes I would yank everything dear to her and give her a reality check. Hang up doing school until after the holidays and reconnect with her. Have some good long discussions about what she expects out of her life and if she thinks the path she is on is going to get her there. Give her lots of love and attention and let her vent. She may be feeling some pressure or stress that she is internalizing and causing her to behave the way she is. Also, if you do make her stop all of the extra activities for a while I would make her choose one to start doing again when she has earned it. Let her focus on doing just that one thing well instead of doing 3 or 4 things half-way.

 

Hope you can come to a good place with her soon. I know how stressful it is to see someone you love behaving in a self destructive way. :grouphug:

[PeterPan]

I think my dd is at your house, hehe. I'm with the others, that you have a mix of things going on: personality, boredom, adapting to the change, character, and a touch of hormones and normal child development. My very first thought was to drop all those activities you are in with or, or at least pare them down to *1* and only one. And I'm make sure, absolutely sure, that the *1* thing you kept was with someone you felt was a quality mentor. I wouldn't put her with anyone right now who is not a person who will guide her soul in the right direction, talk to you when she sees issues, confront her gently and lovingly over wrong attitudes, etc. If the leader/teacher isn't a good model and guide right now, I'd pull her out. This has definitely made a difference with my dd.

 

No, I wouldn't unschool her, lol. BTW, you should ask her what she means by unschooling. My dd will say that too, and what she really means is there is a subject she particularly likes and would like to have interest-driven. That's no problem! Just create a framework of accountability that allows that to happen. For instance, with history I have a spine I'm reading her, but then she is free to read all she wants, on any rabbit trails she wants, so long as she writes two paragraphs by the end of the week. That works for us, kwim?

 

Now on the gifted thing, the thing I always tell my dh is that gifted kids need MORE discipline, not less. They have MORE ability packed into the same amount of maturity and logic and development. They're still KIDS and do stupid things a kid would do, all the while blowing us away with things they don't think they should be able to do. But their ability and their responsibility by age don't necessarily match. It's just such a hard line to walk. Don't be afraid to discipline, gently and in love, and don't be shocked when she does stupid/bad/terrible things that are age-appropriate or common to the age. It's NORMAL at this age to ask why, contradict (that's the start of logic stage thinking, hehe), etc. I don't have an answer, but I'm just saying to be loving, firm, and perserve. I think if you did a survey, TONS of moms here with kids that age are going through the same thing. Look up some of the "my kid hates school" threads, and you'll see the SAME thing. My dd just doesn't have that competitive drive like I did, never has.

 

As far as whether changing curriculum would help, my guess is it would with some things and not others. This is your first year, so you're in a hard position to jump in and really have a feel for things. I would say I wouldn't have bought the *whole* of anything, lol. From now on, just buy a dab of something to try and see how it works out. For instance, CLE math, which might be a good option for her, btw, gives free units to try.

 

If the material is boring or stupid, which much is, it can be a problem. If it's TOO hard, it's a problem. You have to find your stride.

 

Now I'll take a hard line on that book thing. Some books are mental potato chips, and you can't let them binge on them, any more than you'd let her eat potato chips for supper every night. I'd take an extremely radical position and rid your house of those things entirely, every single book like that. Start a good read aloud and then leave it lying around. Fill the house with good stuff. Some things my dd is enjoying:

 

-cookbooks--which bring up a good point. Are you doing any home ec stuff with her? What does she really enjoy? My dd could care less about schoolwork, but she LOVES homey stuff.

-living math books--A Gebra Named Al, etc. This was a HUGE hit here.

-A Wrinkle in Time--huge hit, about gifted kids, puberty, feelings. Resonated with me in 5th grade as a kid, now dd. Try it with yours. Most of the others in the series are fine too.

-anything from solid reading lists like the VP catalog, Highlands Latin School, WTM, etc. If she has never read the classics or needs a helping hand, get her the Great Illustrated Classics series. They often go on sale around now, and while abridged they can be VERY GOOD steps to the real thing.

-historical fiction from the VP catalog--They have WONDERFUL historical fiction series in there. The Roman Mysteries, all kinds of stuff.

 

In case you haven't noticed a theme, anything mystery is good for this age. It fits with their development and entering the logic stage. BTW, have you tried doing any Mindbenders or Perplexors or Grid Perplexors with her? They would be something fun for you to do TOGETHER, and would give you a way to both work on your relationship and ability to work together and help her work on sticking to things. I'm sure she sticks to things she wants, but it's the sticking to things she DOESN'T want, hehe. I actually made my dd do a book of latin word searches one summer, no so much because I cared about the latin, but because I wanted the character formation. She just wanted everything to come easily, on a silver plate. It's ok to tackle something a bit hard, if you commit to doing it with her, together, to model that process.

 

Are you using a weekly checklist with her? I find it ESEENTIAL with my dd. It's the only way to have clear, concrete expectations and consequences. Email me and I can send you ours. It's just fun to see how other people do them, I think.

 

On the new thing, I don't know what to say. Obviously that's going to be hard with Christmas coming. Is there some REASON, some insecurity leading to this? I'm kind of quirky about stuff, but I grew up very poor, where a dollar was a LOT. When my dd was little, I trained her that she was never to ask for things in the store, not ever. So if we go in a toy store, she has no conception that she could ask for things or be allowed to have things, because it's always been that way. And I'd probably, since your dd is older, tell her flat out that it is a recession, it's time to economize, and that EVERYTHING is coming from the Goodwill. I'd give her (and everyone) homemade presents. You can't change till you change, kwim? Is there some sense in which your own practices or experiences have contributed to this? I'd just look at your souls and see what might help. If she focuses on giving during the holidays, that would be good. We only do three presents at the holidays: something fun, something useful (generally long-term, like a sewing box), and something homemade. And then I do a themed stocking with little things because we don't do candy. If kids get too much at once, their focus wains, making it hard to be grateful. I try to facilitate her making homemade presents, and I give her a small stipend to buy for others.

 

Don't compare her to her brother too much. She just is who she is. Her flaws will turn into strengths one day, so try to see what the positive/strong side is of it and nurture it. That way your relationship is not all negative. You need positive interaction during the day, some time or manner or event or thing you do together that gives you a chance to interact positively, without needing to constantly tell her to hurry up, be neater, go faster, etc. Ask me how I know. :)

 

BTW, the limits we put on Christmas have nothing to do with our ability. We just decided that was the easiest way for us to live reserved, with a focus on people, not stuff. If there's something I desperately want to give her beyond that, I do it another time. I'm often known just to surprise her with stuff, and I keep it just for the occasion in a box of secrets in a closet. But that's what makes it fun, that it's unexpected and SPECIAL, not expected or obligatory. If it's obligatory, I'd institute some depression-style living real quick.

Edited November 21, 2009 by OhElizabeth

[Caribbean Queen]

You just started homeschooling her. She isn't used to doing hard work. I think you should sit with her and make sure she does her work. Don't expect her to work independantly or enjoy her studies yet.

 

You said she won't use library books and may not even read the new books you buy her. You have conflicts when she wants you to buy, buy buy. She is materialistic. It sounds like you have spoiled her. :001_unsure:

 

Limit or get rid of the TV, video games, computer, phone calls, electronic gadgets, designer clothes and friends. How about giving her free time to use those things from 6:00-8:00pm? During the day she get really bored and then she will learn to amuse herself, and will start to develop more interests.

[Karen in CO]

You just started homeschooling her. She isn't used to doing hard work. I think you should sit with her and make sure she does her work. Don't expect her to work independantly or enjoy her studies yet.

 

You said she won't use library books and may not even read the new books you buy her. You have conflicts when she wants you to buy, buy buy. She is materialistic. It sounds like you have spoiled her. :001_unsure:

 

Limit or get rid of the TV, video games, computer, phone calls, electronic gadgets, designer clothes and friends. How about giving her free time to use those things from 6:00-8:00pm? During the day she get really bored and then she will learn to amuse herself, and will start to develop more interests.

:iagree:

and it is very easy for me as a parent to look at my dd with a bad attitude and blame her especially when there is also a compliant child handy for comparison. It is easy to stay in the conflict. It takes a lot more to look through to what is causing the attitude, find a long-term solution, take responsibility for letting it get that far and realize that it isn't her against me. It about is me needing to find a way to reach her and to train her and to help her. It is about her future. One of the reasons I homeschool my girls is to help keep them from becoming materialistic and peer-oriented. It is the same reason they don't watch tv - they watch movies because netflix is my friend, but not just straight-up commercial-loaded tv.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Karen in CO

[LibraryLover]

:iagree:

and it is very easy for me as a parent to look at my dd with a bad attitude and blame her especially when there is also a compliant child handy for comparison. It is easy to stay in the conflict. It takes a lot more to look through to what is causing the attitude, find a long-term solution, take responsibility for letting it get that far and realize that it isn't her against me. It about is me needing to find a way to reach her and to train her and to help her. It is about her future. One of the reasons I homeschool my girls is to help keep them from becoming materialistic and peer-oriented. It is the same reason they don't watch tv - they watch movies because netflix is my friend, but not just straight-up commercial-loaded tv.

 

I've often wondered how significant not having cable TV has been for our family. Oh, we love movies, that's for sure. But not having 24/7 access to just anything all these years....I wonder. Would we be the same family? Better? Less so?

 

I always thought not having cable was easier than having to consider cable and all the (fantastic) programming. Whenever I have seen an HGTV home or cooking show, I want cable. Then I think about what all that cable might mean. Yet isn't having 500 channels just like having a computer or Netflix?

 

I see fantastic families who have cable and I feel like "i want cable too! Wah!!". lol :lol: Is there a way to live in harmony with on-demand anything?

Edited November 21, 2009 by LibraryLover

[Karen in CO]

it is funny to watch my little one watch a show with commercials since she see them so rarely to really reassures me. It don't matter what the commercial is for, at the end of the commercial - she says something like "We should get that." "We need that." "I want that." I have a nice broken record - "No, dear we don't need that we have what we need." or "That is pretty or interesting. If you want it you'll have to save your money for it."

[Capt_Uhura]

I couldn't live w/out cable and the History Channel and NOVA and the Science channel but my friend uses Netflix for most of the same stuff. We TIVO everything so my kids never watch live TV. We fast forward through the commercials. Something must have gotten through b/c when my 2yr old saw a toy advertised and said she wanted it, I asked my 9yr old and 6yr old if they thought it was a good toy. they both thought about it for a moment and concluded no. One thought that once you played all the games, it wouldn't be fun anymore and would quickly be boring and then you'd have spent your money on it. Plus, it was big and takes up space. What I've done is when they see something they might want, we Google it and read other's reviews of the product. We see if any friends have it to get their opinion of it.

[Sahamamama]

She is very materialistic and wants me to buy, buy, buy and so we conflict over that A LOT.

 

What feeds materialism in a ten year old?

 

 

• Is she competing with affluent/materialistically minded friends? Are these the friendships that will encourage her to learn and grow?

• Is she seeing too much materialism depicted on TV/movies? Can you replace some of what she's watching with something a little more down-to-earth?

• Has she learned that begging/whining for stuff will get her some? ;) If so, she is manipulating (and disrespecting) you when she argues about it.... No means no.

• Are there, um, any close role models in her life who are (also) materialistic and culture-bound? Be committed to your own growth and learning, be excited about something that involves academics, demonstrate that there is more to life than clothes, celebrities, and stuff.

• Is too much media time training her to be a passive "learner?" Take away the iPod, the cell phone, the entertainment/games and so on. Turn the television off. Or get rid of it. Or put it away for three months and see what your children come up with. HTH.

 

[LibraryLover]

If I didn't get NOVA as one of my 8 channels, I would absolutly get cable! PBS is my lifeline. No, serioulsy. :001_smile:

[profmom]

Here are a couple of things that I try to keep in mind that might be helpful:

 

~ Freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. So, freedoms (including having lots of choices) are only earned when the child is responsibly handling the freedoms they already have (partly evidenced by good attitudes!) This often means that we have to pull back on freedoms, sometimes drastically. Ideally, we are gradually able to give more freedoms as kids grow up because they have gradually learned to be more responsible. (They do still go through stages where you are shocked to find that they haven't been as responsible as you thought and you have to pull back.)

 

~ Giving too many choices/freedom (could be with anything, including time, curricula, books, etc.) can result in the child not wanting to obey. They can be frustrated and have a bad attitude about not being able to have a choice this time when most of the time they can choose. (Bad attitudes could mean that things have gotten out-of-balance and maybe you went too far in giving freedoms at this point.)

 

~ Any time I have to pull back on freedoms or be more strict for a period, I try to remember to turn up the love and encouragement at the same time. I try to figure out what my child's "love language" is and purposely ramp it up.

 

I hope something there is helpful!

Edited November 22, 2009 by profmom

[lovemykids]

You just started homeschooling her. She isn't used to doing hard work. I think you should sit with her and make sure she does her work. Don't expect her to work independantly or enjoy her studies yet.

 

You said she won't use library books and may not even read the new books you buy her. You have conflicts when she wants you to buy, buy buy. She is materialistic. It sounds like you have spoiled her. :001_unsure:

 

Limit or get rid of the TV, video games, computer, phone calls, electronic gadgets, designer clothes and friends. How about giving her free time to use those things from 6:00-8:00pm? During the day she get really bored and then she will learn to amuse herself, and will start to develop more interests.

 

:iagree:There are some things I didn't want to say here....LOL.

[lovemykids]

Lots of good advice here...:)

[kalanamak]

I've had it up to HERE with my dd (10) and her attitudes.

 

She is very materialistic and wants me to buy, buy, buy and so we conflict over that A LOT.

 

She keeps asking me to unschool her (which means just let me go play games and watch TV -and not the educational things on either)

 

I was a lazy child who wanted to play games, too.

 

Personally, I'd get rid of the TV, give her a budget and not one penny more, with a deduction from next months amount of 50 cents for every nag, give her on grade material that is workbook, expect it well done, and let her sort herself out. All the while setting a very good example on frugality, studiousness, and not "hating" things. Have a ball with your son. The moment her toe is "in the learning door" (out of boredom or curiousity, etc), greet her normally, make no fuss or remark on her change of heart, and carry on with humor and pleasure.

 

IMO, HTH, and my apologies to those who loathe parenting posts from parents of one. I am channeling my mother, who had many children.:D

Edited November 23, 2009 by kalanamak

[StephanieZ]

I've had it up to HERE with my dd (10) and her attitudes. This is our first full year homeschooling her. We did 1 quarter last year and it was a light schedule since it was just one quarter. I homeschooled her younger brother the whole year last year.

 

I have found a perfect groove for my DS (9). We do Ambleside Year 4, Singapore Math, Latin for Children, Elementary Spanish and lots of hands on science. He is flourishing. He loves all the books. He loves to discuss the books. He gives great narrations. He can dohis math independently and I can trust him to do it right. He loves everything and usually extends his learning on his own.

 

I do the same thing with my DD (10) -only changes are she is Singapore 4B where he is in 5B. She hates everything. She hates read alouds, hates narration, hates math, hates science, hates history. She hates everything that involves school or effort. I think one issue is she was in gifted classes in public school and NEVER once had to do anything remotely challenging. She does the bare minimum in everything (school or extracurricular). She can not work independently. She will lie and cheat and take short cuts whenever she can. I have had to spend most of year working on character issues. She does not have any learning challenges to overcome. She is gifted and has lots of academic ability -just not interested anything but friends, clothes, video games, tv shows and other superficial things. She is very materialistic and wants me to buy, buy, buy and so we conflict over that A LOT.

 

I don't really know what to do with her. I am not convinced that it's the curriculum but I do think she would prefer to be given a bunch of very easy workbooks and fill them out (as long as she doesn't have to correct herself). We've made major headway with her abilities since we pulled her out. She's improved by 2 grade levels in almost every subject. However, she has no joy. She just wants to do the least amount she has to do and then play games. She keeps asking me to unschool her (which means just let me go play games and watch TV -and not the educational things on either)

 

 

Oh, dear, sounds like you are having a hard time of it!! :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

It sounds to me like you are right to focus on character issues. I've never had to deal with de-toxing from a school situation, as you are clearly having to deal with. . . So, I don't have any experience in your particular challenge. . . But, if I were in those shoes. . .I'd think of trying. . .

 

1) Unplug the home. (TV/computer/games) Leave a computer &/or TV hooked up in your own room for your and dh's needs.

 

If you need a computer for schooling access, leave it, but uninstall all games and control internet access via password and/or time blocks and/or blocking programs/internet sites that aren't school required. You could put a password on windows so that you can only access it and just log them in when needed for school.

 

2) Remove trashy magazines/books from the home. Make sure the shelves are stocked with good books. Make a weekly library trip routine and let dd choose unlimited books so long as they are not complete garbage.

 

3) Restrict phone/friend access to the home phone only if dd currently has other (cell, etc) access.

 

4) Give her control of some $$ spending on outings, clothes, etc. Do this via a "pay check" that is tied to positive behaviors.

 

5) Let her see friends only so long as she is current on her school work/chores. (Make this doable.) Only exceptions are committed (or academic or church) activities where other people count on your child -- such as scouts, group lessons, teams, etc. Otherwise, she is "grounded" with no phone/outings/fun stuff/etc. My older (10 & 12 yo) dc have weekly goals in every subject. If they don't meet them (due 8 AM Mondays), then they are grounded until caught up on the overdue materials. (This gives them the weekend to catch up prior to being officially behind, and also makes it so the grounding would start on a low-stakes day being it is the beginning of the school week, so they have time to make it right before feeling any real pain of missing a party, etc.)

 

6) Your method of schooling her is not for her to decide. You could discuss the ideas of unschooling with her in an intelligent way, and you could be open to CONSIDERING her ideas if they are compatible with a great education. Discuss lazy education VS independent education. . . That your idea of good unschooling homes typically have little/no media access, lots of art/music/carpentry/whatever, kids who pursue intellectual things with passion, raise animals, run businesses, etc. . . And how your home/her behaviors would have to be different. . . You could even offer to allow her to "unschool" over the summer for 3 months and see how it goes. Have a written unschooling agreement at the outset with goals/expectations and then have a date for a formal review of how it went at the end of the summer. (If it were me, I'd plan that for 4 weeks before YOU plan to start fall schooling, so that you'll still have plenty of time to buy YOUR curricula for next year!)

[Emmy]

There is so much great advice in this thread - wow.

 

I have a 9yo that has serious entitlement issues and is so very capable and yet incredibly lazy and a big complainer. I recently had to go on bedrest for my pregnancy and of my 4 children - ages 3, 5, 7, and 9 - HE - the oldest - is the one that is giving me the most trouble. I need to pour over this thread some more and choose a path to move forward on with him, thanks to all that contributed.

[plimsoll]

It took my son at least a year to lose all the bad atittudes he learned in school.

 

He wanted to do the least; he had been trained that education was filling in worksheets; he thought as long as you aced the quizzes/tests you were a good student; and he had become used to cruising, since little in school was challenging for him.

 

So for the first year, we wandered and meandered. Mix in less rigorous stuff, use educational videos and educational video games; educational board games; go to museums, parks, and zoos; use some worksheets if need be. See if there are outside classes at musuems, etc. she can take. Find interactive multimedia version of history, science, and geography. Even in a year of meandering without a necessarily coherent or well-planned approach, my son learned far more than he would have in school.

 

So you may need to spend a bunch of time transitioning her into a different understanding of education and what it means to be a good student. Gradually you can move more into the mode you would prefer.

 

I would also recommend gradually eliminating tv from all of your lives. TV is a big force for programming us to be consumers....

[tribemama]

Wow, great information!

I love how everyone with this age range seems to be coming out of the woodworks :001_smile:

 

I, too, have an 8 year old son, that has been homeschooled since the beginning, who was extremely difficult. Everything was a constant battle, never wanted to do any type of "school". Someone had suggested, just take time off - work on your relationship. So, I did(after one last huge argument/melt down). I let go of all school work. Everything. It was really hard for me (because I have this inner voice screaming at me) - but I actually had more time with the other kiddos because I wasn't arguing with him to get him to do a lesson. He listened to me read, he dug holes in the back yard, road bike, we went to the park like usual, painted and drew and went to museums. This year, he wants to do his "reading lessons", he was overly excited to get his "math"(RightStart), he enjoys memorizing poems and grammar and rolls his "r" beautifully for latin. Is he on a 3rd grade level? - probably not(freeks me out that he still is not fluently reading). Does he still have melt downs? -Yes, but not everyday and never over school work.

 

Tribemama

[choirfarm]

I would slow down but....

She will not read anything from library, it has to be bought and bought NEW. Used books are not good enough for her. Then when you buy new, she may or may not read it. The only things she will read is Diary of a Wimpy Kid (has read it about ten times this year) and Rainbow Magic Fairy books.

 

k.

 

Oh my goodness, she gets a choice????? Almost all of my books are used. How does she get a choice. I agree unplug EVERYTHING and NOTHING new. Gulp.. I hesitate to ask this but where did she get this attitude?? Gently, gently I ask.. how is YOUR attitude toward stuff??? I remember my daughter asking, "Do we have a coupon for that?" at the store because I didn't buy it if it wasn't on sale or we didn't have a coupon. It was my mantra...I'm sorry it's not on sale and besides we don't need it anyway!!!

 

I would also suggest doing some kind of missions work. There is a local homeless shelter that serves Thanksgiving dinner and always needs volunteers. One of my good friends does this every year with her family. Going to Honduras and Ethiopia really opened up my children's eyes. I realize you probably cannot do that, but do something in the sections of your city you might not normally go.

 

After you have unplugged everything then love, love love her but don't worry about her attitude. (It will be really hard, but you CAN"T make her be the way you want, just give her the guiding and hope she makes the right choice.) MOdel, model, model the attitude you want her to have: Muse out loud: So and so is having a really hard time, I wonder what I can do to help her? I'll make a meal. Would you like to help?

 

Or..it looks like you are having a hard time with ...., can I help? Model sacrificial love and giving to everyone else. You can't guarantee, but it is all you can do.

 

The boys and my daughter are not where I want them and they have other issues (messiness) where I have completely failed, but they are pretty unselfish, serving people. Some of it may be them seeing me take care of my father for the last 5 years ( he died in May). It wasn't fun and they didn't get to do some things because we had to take care of him. They whined and complained, but before he died they were finally serving him and they saw my dad change from a cynical man to a believer caring about others. One of the older ladies that helps with AWANA came up to me last week and said, "I love your daughter. I love having her at the table. She shares and helps everyone else. She always buys things for her brothers and not herself. She is the most unselfish girl I've ever seen." It was hard fought and she has other character issues we deal with .. We aren't perfect..at all. But having to take care of my dad because he had alienated everyone else helped us all.

 

 

Model, model model. Where did she get the idea that books had to be new??? I from friends??? I just cannot even fathom that idea. My dad had a motto that I kept: Use it up. Wear it out. Make do or do without.

I dragged them to the library from the time they were in a baby sling until now nearly every week. They don't know any other way... i just can't imagine a child saying a library book isn't good enough.. I just can't.

Christine

Edited November 23, 2009 by choirfarm

[AuntPol]

What feeds materialism in a ten year old?

 

 

• Is she competing with affluent/materialistically minded friends? Are these the friendships that will encourage her to learn and grow?

Yes. There was a lot of materialistc families at our former school. We have twins her age for neighbors. They get $100 each when they visit their Grandma (which is a minimum of once a month). They go shopping every week. However, they don't come across as materialistic in attitude but my dd is very envious of them. I don't encourage or discourage friendship with these girls (though I finally forbid a friendship with another neighbor). Most of my daughters friends are fellow homeschoolers from our Co-Op who get a lot less than my dd does (larger families).

 

 

Is she seeing too much materialism depicted on TV/movies? Can you replace some of what she's watching with something a little more down-to-earth?

 

She was watching way too much Disney Channel shows but she lost the privilages to watch those one by one and finally the whole channel back in September. My DH and I felt it was contributing to the bratty and materialistic behavior. Most of what we watch now is educational things from Netflix or we DVR educational shows.

 

• Has she learned that begging/whining for stuff will get her some? ;) If so, she is manipulating (and disrespecting) you when she argues about it.... No means no.

I don't buy anything that is asked for. In fact, it is the area that I am most likely to lose my temper. I even asked her once has the constant begging and asking every worked for her and she said no.

 

• Are there, um, any close role models in her life who are (also) materialistic and culture-bound? Be committed to your own growth and learning, be excited about something that involves academics, demonstrate that there is more to life than clothes, celebrities, and stuff.

I am not materialistic at all. Everything I wear comes from thrift store or church yard sale. I rarely wear make up and I am jeans and t-shirt kind of person unless situation requires dressing up. I am the mom that most of the moms Her role models now are very down to earth. However, she did have an extremely materialistic teacher in public school and that was her all time favorite teacher (a teacher that also never taught her anything academic -that was year her test scores went from 99%ile to 67%ile)

 

• Is too much media time training her to be a passive "learner?" Take away the iPod, the cell phone, the entertainment/games and so on. Turn the television off. Or get rid of it. Or put it away for three months and see what your children come up with. HTH.

Good idea! I am having a hard time geting my husband to agree to it (he being the guy who plops on couch when he gets home with tv or game system on and laptop on lap while talking on cell phone the whole time.

 

 

 

Thanks

[DJgang]

I haven't read everything, I am actually printing this entire thread out so that I can read later on....(working right now).....

 

But my oldest DS9 is a pain in my rear end!

 

He's lazy and doesn't care about anything or anyone but his games and TV.

 

I HAVE HAD IT!

 

I've given him chances to show me that he's maturing, growing up, but he could give a rats rear end .... so *I've* got to make some changes!

 

My 5yo, he's a gem when it comes to school, he loves to learn.

[AuntPol]

Oh my goodness, she gets a choice????? Almost all of my books are used. How does she get a choice. I agree unplug EVERYTHING and NOTHING new. Gulp.. I hesitate to ask this but where did she get this attitude?? Gently, gently I ask.. how is YOUR attitude toward stuff??? I remember my daughter asking, "Do we have a coupon for that?" at the store because I didn't buy it if it wasn't on sale or we didn't have a coupon. It was my mantra...I'm sorry it's not on sale and besides we don't need it anyway!!!

 

We have a house full of books. Honestly some rooms are wall to wall books. Most used. I don't buy new books for myself. I always use library and occasionally a yard sale. My husband on the other hand does buy new books but he will read used ones too. He will NOT use library though as it's not convenient for him. My kids usually only get new books at Christmas or Birthdays and when in school, they got them at Book Fair. Her interest in new books seems to stem from the scholastic orders. She wanted to get deliveries of new books in the classroom in front of her friends. I did end up letting her order some last year since it was a series book and was on sale.

 

I am the coupon queen too. I used to moderate a frugal board. I am not a spender by any means. I am a use it up, wear it out, and then redo it into something else. My clothes are thrift store/yard sale, my furniture is all from yard sales, we don't have curtains or many pictures since I haven't found the right ones on clearance, I'm in a produce and bread co-op, I do planned leftovers, etc. I am cheap. I think sometimes it might be a reaction that because I am cheap, if I spend money then I must really love her???? Does that make sense?

 

I would also suggest doing some kind of missions work. There is a local homeless shelter that serves Thanksgiving dinner and always needs volunteers. One of my good friends does this every year with her family. Going to Honduras and Ethiopia really opened up my children's eyes. I realize you probably cannot do that, but do something in the sections of your city you might not normally go.

 

Yes, we volunteer in a soup kitchen and adopt a family every year (deliver to their house so she sees the living conditions). Her old school was inner city magnet so she was exposed to the poor. Unfortunately, most of the magnet kids came from a very exclusive area so we were the poorest of the non-poor LOL.

 

After you have unplugged everything then love, love love her but don't worry about her attitude. (It will be really hard, but you CAN"T make her be the way you want, just give her the guiding and hope she makes the right choice.) MOdel, model, model the attitude you want her to have: Muse out loud: So and so is having a really hard time, I wonder what I can do to help her? I'll make a meal. Would you like to help?

 

 

Or..it looks like you are having a hard time with ...., can I help? Model sacrificial love and giving to everyone else. You can't guarantee, but it is all you can do.

 

Great idea for modeling. I think I need to actually verbalize the things I do for others more often.

 

The boys and my daughter are not where I want them and they have other issues (messiness) where I have completely failed, but they are pretty unselfish, serving people. Some of it may be them seeing me take care of my father for the last 5 years ( he died in May). It wasn't fun and they didn't get to do some things because we had to take care of him. They whined and complained, but before he died they were finally serving him and they saw my dad change from a cynical man to a believer caring about others. One of the older ladies that helps with AWANA came up to me last week and said, "I love your daughter. I love having her at the table. She shares and helps everyone else. She always buys things for her brothers and not herself. She is the most unselfish girl I've ever seen." It was hard fought and she has other character issues we deal with .. We aren't perfect..at all. But having to take care of my dad because he had alienated everyone else helped us all.

 

 

Model, model model. Where did she get the idea that books had to be new??? I from friends??? I just cannot even fathom that idea. My dad had a motto that I kept: Use it up. Wear it out. Make do or do without.

I dragged them to the library from the time they were in a baby sling until now nearly every week. They don't know any other way... i just can't imagine a child saying a library book isn't good enough.. I just can't.

Christine

 

LOL. Neither can I. The librarian told me the other day that I've checked out almost 3000 books since I got this card. We've gone since they were born. I always have at least 50 books checked out! My house is full of books. My husband, my son, and I are always reading. It remains a mystery to me though I suspect a lot of it came from school as she loved to read before school and then developed an attitude about it quickly once she started Kindergarten. There was a lot of issues because I taught her to read phonetically and her teachers told her that I was wrong and she had to do look/say. She was always more a teacher pleaser than mom pleaser so I think that fact didn't help plus that she was top reading group and not ever really worked with, and every single one of her teachers told me that they hated to read and never read for pleasure.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the great advice everyone!!!!!! So much. Sometimes, it just helps to know that you are not the only one having this issue and sometimes you just need reminders. I have gained a lot from this thread!

[melmichigan]

Coming back from earlier in the thread but I will add, I have seen great improvement since we locked the TV. My children have to ask for anything down to a noggin cartoon. I still keep strict policy about TV time during the day and reserve it for things we have DVR'd to watch as a family. The only thing unlocked in the Science Channel and Nat. Geo. and they still can't be watched during the day unless it is something assigned. It does make a difference. I also don't watch any TV when the kids are awake unless it's family viewing. I DVR anything I might want to see until after they are in bed.

 

Does your DD have a library card? Even my DS4 has one and we use them religiously. We try to only buy for curriculum (since we do literature based) and for birthdays/holidays unless something isn't available at the library and they have shown it's something they will read, such as a series with a book missing. :)

[5Youngs]

The first year is ALWAYS the hardest. :D

 

My 10yo son, the middle child, gave me trouble every day, UNTIL I started writing out a list of what he had to accomplish for the day/week.

He was thrilled after that.

He seemed to think that if he finished too quickly, I'd just give him more work, so he wanted to know my plans from start to finish.

Once we got that cleared up, his time to complete assignments cut in half. :confused:

I was stunned because I thought he was a little slow and he really was amazingly intelligent~

 

Character issues pop up with ALL of our kids from time to time.

You do have to look closely at different personalities to see them, though.

Some of us wear our 'stuff' out there for all to see and some of us are better at hiding it.

 

Our most important job is nurturing their character, not producing a genius.

The world has plenty of inhabitants that are selfish, intelligent twits..... :D

[5Youngs]

I have had to change curriculum in math before and it made all the difference in the world when my son felt like he 'got' it.