BMW Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Here's the situation... At the end of last school year, my dd had a friend that she got to know who was in high school. Dd was in 8th grade. This friend had a boyfriend that my dd developed a crush on. Dd did not listen to ANYONE regarding this and when her friend and the boy broke up, dd flirted quite a bit with the boy. Over the summer they hung out places together and when school started, many people did not like my dd because of the situation. And it was fine for me to not get too involved. I had warned her. She needed to learn some lessons herself. This was the boy that I posted about who called late at night and I found him on many occasions to be disrespectful of authority. I put my foot down about a month ago and said that she was simply to obey... enough was enough... no more friendship with the boy. She told the boy that she was not allowed to hang out or chat with him anymore. I am pretty sure he took it as a joke and figured she'd be disobeying me. Now my dd has refused his phone calls and stopped chatting with him at school. She has now received two threatening messages that she is going to get what is coming to her. I read one last night and he said very terrible things about me, her dad and our family situation and used some disgusting terms... I think that I will call the vice principal (she and I know each other fairly well) and discuss this. This boy deleted himself from my dd's myspace (which is where the message came in to) and my dd cut and pasted the message and sent it to me to read. It is now deleted, so, if we print it to file with the police as a threat, his name will not be on it and it could look like any person could have written this. I always drive my dd back and forth to school, so she should be safe in that way... she has an older brother also at the high school... I had to tell him that he is NOT allowed to punch the boy in the face, like he wanted to, and he has counseled with someone regarding this so that he knows not to go looking for trouble with the boy, but to just watch out for his sister and step in if she is in danger... Yuck. And, for those who will tell me to pull them out of public school and homeschool and this is why you wont send yours to ps... my children are under court order to attend public school (divorce court order). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Yuck! I am sorry. I will be praying for her and you and all.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Here's the situation... At the end of last school year, my dd had a friend that she got to know who was in high school. Dd was in 8th grade. This friend had a boyfriend that my dd developed a crush on. Dd did not listen to ANYONE regarding this and when her friend and the boy broke up, dd flirted quite a bit with the boy. Over the summer they hung out places together and when school started, many people did not like my dd because of the situation. And it was fine for me to not get too involved. I had warned her. She needed to learn some lessons herself. This was the boy that I posted about who called late at night and I found him on many occasions to be disrespectful of authority. I put my foot down about a month ago and said that she was simply to obey... enough was enough... no more friendship with the boy. She told the boy that she was not allowed to hang out or chat with him anymore. I am pretty sure he took it as a joke and figured she'd be disobeying me. Now my dd has refused his phone calls and stopped chatting with him at school. She has now received two threatening messages that she is going to get what is coming to her. I read one last night and he said very terrible things about me, her dad and our family situation and used some disgusting terms... I think that I will call the vice principal (she and I know each other fairly well) and discuss this. This boy deleted himself from my dd's myspace (which is where the message came in to) and my dd cut and pasted the message and sent it to me to read. It is now deleted, so, if we print it to file with the police as a threat, his name will not be on it and it could look like any person could have written this. I always drive my dd back and forth to school, so she should be safe in that way... she has an older brother also at the high school... I had to tell him that he is NOT allowed to punch the boy in the face, like he wanted to, and he has counseled with someone regarding this so that he knows not to go looking for trouble with the boy, but to just watch out for his sister and step in if she is in danger... Yuck. And, for those who will tell me to pull them out of public school and homeschool and this is why you wont send yours to ps... my children are under court order to attend public school (divorce court order). Ickily, this reminded me of myself and my stbxh 27 years ago. Obsessive crazy boy, young nice girl who tried to politely break it off......crazy obsessive reaction, and next thing you know we are married and living the nightmare. Watch this carefully. Educate yourself about obsessive relationships. His 'threats' to your dd are the least of your worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 :grouphug: Just wanted to say that at least your dd had the good sense to send the threat to you. I would talk to the school counselor as well, and if he says/does anything else, I would definitely talk to the police about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 :grouphug: Just wanted to say that at least your dd had the good sense to send the threat to you. I would talk to the school counselor as well, and if he says/does anything else, I would definitely talk to the police about him. I did tell my mother. We did go to the police. And still inexplicably I married him. I'm telling you---things like this can take a weird turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgm Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 She needs a large male friend that will have the chat with the obsessive one and look out for her until he has moved on. If not, hopefully there is a male adult at school that can intervene...your vp friend should be able to help with that. Frequent reminders that everything is on videotape have helped with reducing incidents in our high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 A young girl like your dd needs all the intervention you can give. Call the school, his parents, heck, I'd even call the ex-friend's parents and see if this is a pattern with this guy. You need to protect your dd. And secondarily, perhaps your protection of her will snap him out of his behavior and end this cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I'd call the police anyway. Maybe an officer can have an off the record talk with the boy, and he doesn't have to know it's otr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Here's the situation... At the end of last school year, my dd had a friend that she got to know who was in high school. Dd was in 8th grade. This friend had a boyfriend that my dd developed a crush on. Dd did not listen to ANYONE regarding this and when her friend and the boy broke up, dd flirted quite a bit with the boy. Over the summer they hung out places together and when school started, many people did not like my dd because of the situation. And it was fine for me to not get too involved. I had warned her. She needed to learn some lessons herself. This was the boy that I posted about who called late at night and I found him on many occasions to be disrespectful of authority. I put my foot down about a month ago and said that she was simply to obey... enough was enough... no more friendship with the boy. She told the boy that she was not allowed to hang out or chat with him anymore. I am pretty sure he took it as a joke and figured she'd be disobeying me. Now my dd has refused his phone calls and stopped chatting with him at school. She has now received two threatening messages that she is going to get what is coming to her. I read one last night and he said very terrible things about me, her dad and our family situation and used some disgusting terms... I think that I will call the vice principal (she and I know each other fairly well) and discuss this. This boy deleted himself from my dd's myspace (which is where the message came in to) and my dd cut and pasted the message and sent it to me to read. It is now deleted, so, if we print it to file with the police as a threat, his name will not be on it and it could look like any person could have written this. I always drive my dd back and forth to school, so she should be safe in that way... she has an older brother also at the high school... I had to tell him that he is NOT allowed to punch the boy in the face, like he wanted to, and he has counseled with someone regarding this so that he knows not to go looking for trouble with the boy, but to just watch out for his sister and step in if she is in danger... Yuck. And, for those who will tell me to pull them out of public school and homeschool and this is why you wont send yours to ps... my children are under court order to attend public school (divorce court order). :grouphug: I'm sorry. I do know from a relative's similar experience in high school, it is possible for this: you go to the police to talk with them. File charges. Police can subpoena website and they can find deleted messages. Messages are not 'gone' on website backup. It is a possibility. Can you go back to ex and court and get the court order changed under these circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Ok, this is something I, unfortunately, know about from the other side of the table. My dd got into a disagreement with someone at a Halloween party. Apparently, the girl said some mean things to her and was non-responsive to my dd's attempts to work the problem out. My dd posted something to the affect of the girl was giving her headaches and did the girl still want to be her friend on Facebook. I was aware of everything going on up until that point and figured it was typical teen squabbles and would work itself out. On Monday we got a call from the principal stating that Stormy had put an anonymous note in the girl's locker that said some mildly mean things. My dd did not threaten the girl but was basically retaliating for the things that the girl said to her. The girl took the note to the school police liason/security (not exactly sure of this person's position) who then pulled the security tapes and found out it was my dd. He gave the info to the principal and she called my dd in to talk to her. My dd confessed to having written the note. This is when the pricipal called us. She said that no action was being taken (because basically it was a squabble between girls with no threats haven been made) other than informing our dd that she had made a bad choice in how she had decided to handle the matter. She just wanted to inform us. Frustratingly, she would not tell us the other girl involved or exactly what the note said. We told her that we would talk to our dd about the matter when she got home. She told us that was not neccessary and that she did not approve of the manner in which we had decided to handle it. In any case, when our dd came home we did talk to her. She did admit to writing a note and that the principal had talked to her about it and that she agreed that her decision was a bad choice. She also gave us the name of the other girl involved but it is not a name of someone we recognize from her friends or groups of friends. She however, gave us a different story as to the what the note said and the origins of said note.We have no way of verifying the info so basically there is nothing else we can do about it. The point in telling this whole story though is that if you go to the school with this info, they will take it seriously (even if it was anonymous), they will speak to the parties involved and they will further watch the situation. I think that your biggest concerns should be how your dd handles the stress of the situation. It is possible that the boy was just venting and is now done and ready to move on, especially if there were no threats, in which case it would be best for her to ignore him and not further incite the situation. If however, he continues to be a problem then you need to make sure that your dd does not engage him and that the school is aware of the situation. Good luck with this. These kinds of situations are always so stressful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 She has now received two threatening messages that she is going to get what is coming to her. I read one last night and he said very terrible things about me, her dad and our family situation and used some disgusting terms... I think that I will call the vice principal (she and I know each other fairly well) and discuss this. This boy deleted himself from my dd's myspace (which is where the message came in to) and my dd cut and pasted the message and sent it to me to read. It is now deleted, so, if we print it to file with the police as a threat, his name will not be on it and it could look like any person could have written this. Someone should be able to retrieve the message even if it was deleted. If I were you, I would definitely discuss this with the vice principal and police. I also agree that it would be a good idea to delve deeper into why your dd got involved with this boy. She deserves much better. (FTR, the first guy I dated seriously was somewhat similar. I ignored big red flags. Eventually, he left me alone, but for awhile it was a little scary.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnieB Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 In this day and age, I would make all the stink about it that I could. The principal, the teacher(s) of any classes they are in together, the school security and the local police. I would be polite but firm that this could just be an idle threat, but that it could also be a prelude to real physical danger for your daughter and you expect all the authorities above to protect her while on their campus. No if ands or buts. I know many schools have zero tolerance for this type of behavior now, hopefully your school does. Besides the obvious reasons for making the stink, you may have the added benefit of it all becoming official record should you still have hearings coming up in the divorce case about the choice of homeschooling. If there are no ongoing hearings, but things escalate or get worse, I'd also speak with your divorce attorney about requesting a hearing on the matter. The schools in Arizona take things like this VERY seriously. We recently had a school evacuated because of a text received by several students that a boy was going to get even with a girl for breaking up with him and telling the students/friends to cut first period. The school was checked thoroughly for bombs, the boy that texted was detained by police. It was altogether a scary thing to watch on the breaking news.....and I don't even know any students at that school! I truly believe that if your family was here in Arizona the school would take immediate and in some respects over the top action. I understand why they take these serious, but when it turns out to be idle threats it always sounds over the top....but I've concluded I'd rather that than the swat team and ambulances on the news. And yes anything posted or emailed over the Internet or by texting on a cell phone can be traced back to the original device that sent it. Even if deleted. Big Brother is alive and well, lol. Our library accounts contain a warning that if you keep the reading record that it can be turned over to the local police if they have a warrant. I often wonder what our diverse reading history would say about us to the police, lol. :grouphug: I'm sorry you're going through this and hope that it comes to a quick and calm resolution soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) First, keep in mind that it is entirely possible that this boy is just a typical teen who has minimal parenting and is making some dumb, emotional decisions that are stupid, but not necessarily violent. Wild hormones, hurt feelings, thwarted desires, and a big mouth. Could be (and hopefully is) nothing more than shooting off his mouth to salve his ego and he will soon move on. Nothing new, but in the past it was just voiced in the locker room and forgotten--with the advent of cyberspace, it now reaches a much wider audience. However, regardless of where his head is, I wouldn't stand for it in regard to MY dd! Is it possible that you could have a very intimidating male family member go with the local police to the boy's home to talk to him and his parents? Let it be known that she is under the protection of some serious muscle and that threatening contact will not be tolerated. Take a copy of the email, not the original and remind him of how the law and your family is taking it seriously. I would also alert the school officials. Perhaps he will see that the hassles of continuing to bother your dd are just not worth it to him! And honestly, this may be a heaven-sent life lesson for your dd. She will see that at her tender age, her loving parents may actually know more than she does about human nature. That they have her best interests at heart. That one's hormones often give terrible advice;). That there are a lot of damaged people out there and we need to tread with great caution in forming close relationships. That sometimes saying "I'm done with this" is not enough to end that which you have started. And that she is so blessed to have people to whom she can turn to and trust during frightening times. Let us know how this turns out. I have an 11yo dd and need to know how things like this are best handled, just in case.... Edited November 12, 2009 by hillfarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Update: Dd went to school yesterday and I discussed this with the vice principle. I was told that the messages sent have to be reported to the police because it wasn't during school. This boy's vice principal was notified and that they followed up with him. However... In the meantime, my dd's best girl friend had this boy in a morning class. He told her that he arranged with another girl to have her beat up. When asked "who" he said that if they said who would beat up my dd, then they would get beat up. After "yadda yadda yadda" it came out that the local gang would be handling the job!! So, then my dd and her friend are going about their day and the school police/security guy (a very large, buff dude) followed them from a distance for the day! Yikes. So, after school, dd and I called the police. We had a great officer come to the house and discuss these things with dd. Turns out this gang is a group of young folks (not sure the age, sounds like teens) on bikes (regular bicycles?) that think they are pretty tough and go around stirring up trouble, spray painting things, etc. They are quite proud of themselves for causing trouble. The police know who they are and who their parents are. I was told they are spoiled, well-to-do guys whose parents are busy working... After the report (dd DID have the messages and was able to show who sent them, etc.), the officer said that he'd call the boy and say, "Hey, this is officer ______ and I hear you have a problem with ________. I have read your notes to her and I have heard that you are trying to get her beat up. So, here's the deal. You back off and act as if you don't know her. You have never known her. You are not going to know her. And if anything happens to her, I will come for you and haul you off." That's the gist of it. And the school is now making reports because of the threats that took place ON school property yesterday. Hopefully things die down and I have nothing to say about it again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Update: Dd went to school yesterday and I discussed this with the vice principle. I was told that the messages sent have to be reported to the police because it wasn't during school. This boy's vice principal was notified and that they followed up with him. However... In the meantime, my dd's best girl friend had this boy in a morning class. He told her that he arranged with another girl to have her beat up. When asked "who" he said that if they said who would beat up my dd, then they would get beat up. After "yadda yadda yadda" it came out that the local gang would be handling the job!! So, then my dd and her friend are going about their day and the school police/security guy (a very large, buff dude) followed them from a distance for the day! Yikes. So, after school, dd and I called the police. We had a great officer come to the house and discuss these things with dd. Turns out this gang is a group of young folks (not sure the age, sounds like teens) on bikes (regular bicycles?) that think they are pretty tough and go around stirring up trouble, spray painting things, etc. They are quite proud of themselves for causing trouble. The police know who they are and who their parents are. I was told they are spoiled, well-to-do guys whose parents are busy working... After the report (dd DID have the messages and was able to show who sent them, etc.), the officer said that he'd call the boy and say, "Hey, this is officer ______ and I hear you have a problem with ________. I have read your notes to her and I have heard that you are trying to get her beat up. So, here's the deal. You back off and act as if you don't know her. You have never known her. You are not going to know her. And if anything happens to her, I will come for you and haul you off." That's the gist of it. And the school is now making reports because of the threats that took place ON school property yesterday. Hopefully things die down and I have nothing to say about it again... I'm very sorry for the troubles, but given the circumstances, this is very good news. Way to go Mom! Having a cop threaten to haul you off tend to make an impression on spoiled bullies. And it sounds like the school is responding. Good Good. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 the sum total of what you describe: Threatening her, telling her she's "getting what's coming" etc may well meet the requirements in your jurisdiction to get a restraining order. Why rely on another kid to protect her? He can't. It's nice for her brother to look out for her, but I would want to prohibit this boy from getting anywhere near her if I could. I would look into it and do it in a half a heart beat if necessary. And we were able to get one and if he tried to contact her again, to talk to her, to phone her, to email her, I would whip that thing out and call the police so fast his head would spin. Even if you can't get a physical copy of the messages he sent (and maybe you can if you go through myface to do it), your testimony and hers as to what was said is evidence. Most threats are verbal, not written, so you can't always prove that someone threatened someone apart from the testimony of those who heard it, or in this case, read it. I suppose there are "threats" and then there are "threats" so maybe you need to carefully review what he said with an attorney (or a police officer). But if you can get a restraining order, I would do it immediately and inform the school afterwards. They really aren't necessarily going to help you. Get the legal protection first and then simply let the school know that you have this order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) I am so glad the school and the police took it seriously. I am curious - how did the female friend manage to break up with this boy? Edited November 13, 2009 by Tree House Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I'd take out a restraining order Good idea. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 I was told that it isn't a criminal threat unless it is specific and intended for a certain period of time... So, saying that "you're gonna get what's coming to you" isn't criminal. And having a "friend" say that she was told that "he is getting someone to beat you up" isn't necessarily indicating criminal activity at this time. It sets the stage and it's taken seriously, but it's handled the way I've described... police confronting the boy, discussing it with him and parents and watching. Now, if she got a message that she is getting beat up after school... that is criminal. Because it indicates an imminent time. So, because it isn't criminal at this point, no restraining order would be granted. He's just told to behave himself, in a not so friendly way from an officer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) I was told that it isn't a criminal threat unless it is specific and intended for a certain period of time... So, saying that "you're gonna get what's coming to you" isn't criminal. And having a "friend" say that she was told that "he is getting someone to beat you up" isn't necessarily indicating criminal activity at this time. It sets the stage and it's taken seriously, but it's handled the way I've described... police confronting the boy, discussing it with him and parents and watching. Now, if she got a message that she is getting beat up after school... that is criminal. Because it indicates an imminent time. So, because it isn't criminal at this point, no restraining order would be granted. He's just told to behave himself, in a not so friendly way from an officer... I'm no expert her but I believe the standard is "reasonable fear of harm". So while the bully could not necessarily be charged as a criminal, you could still get a restraining against him under much easier threshold of proof. I'd check it out. Even if you filed a restraining order he (and you) would have to appear before a Judge for a hearing. That in itself is a "wake-up" call, and leaves a paper trail. ETA: The "not so friendly" conversation with the police officer ought to be enough to get his attention. You could see how it goes, and if he steers clear, and leave the restraining order as a weapon in your arsenal for now. Bill Edited November 13, 2009 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I have been known to step in where necessary when it comes to threats and will continue to do so when they are teens. I would not have told my son he could not punch the boy, my boys are being raised to know they are to look out for their sisters and if some punk wants to threaten my daughter it becomes a family affair. I would talk to the school, and the police. If those steps do not help and/or the threats continue I would be going directly to his parents. If they blow it off, all bets are off and I would be allowing my son to deal with the little punk anyway he wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 depending on all the circumstances, you can get a *civil* restraining order if it meets the standards of your state, which may be less than charging someone with a crime. You might find out whether you can get "civil no contact" order or a "temporary restraining order." It may be called something a bit different in your state. Most jurisdictions will have provision for retraining someone from contacting you if they have behaved in a way that is threatening. Your state's language my vary, but I would look into it and would not necessarily go with what one police officer said. Even if I thought it was an "iffy" case as far as the level of the threat, I would consider filing and trying. If you don't get the restraining order, you still let this kid know that you are dead serious about not allowing him to harass your daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 depending on all the circumstances, you can get a *civil* restraining order if it meets the standards of your state, which may be less than charging someone with a crime. You might find out whether you can get "civil no contact" order or a "temporary restraining order." It may be called something a bit different in your state. Most jurisdictions will have provision for retraining someone from contacting you if they have behaved in a way that is threatening. Your state's language my vary, but I would look into it and would not necessarily go with what one police officer said. Even if I thought it was an "iffy" case as far as the level of the threat, I would consider filing and trying. If you don't get the restraining order, you still let this kid know that you are dead serious about not allowing him to harass your daughter. :iagree: A civil restraining order is not criminal so criminal standards do not apply. It will be something like what Bill said - a reasonable fear of imminent physical harm is one standard used. I have personally had them issued for clients on simple threats made against the client. As long as the party really feels they are in danger and can make the case to the judge, they can get a civil RO. Having it is usually enough (not always) to keep someone away and stop such trouble. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Have you told your ex-husband about all this? Was he the one who insisted she be put in public school? Can you call your divorce lawyer and ask for an emergency order to have her withdrawn for her safety now that you have the police reports and hopefully soon, a restraining order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 :grouphug: Just wanted to say that at least your dd had the good sense to send the threat to you. I would talk to the school counselor as well, and if he says/does anything else, I would definitely talk to the police about him. but I'm thinking that BECAUSE she showed mom the threat, maybe she's also concerned for her own safety. I'm not sure what you can do without evidence of the threat, but if he gets worse, I'd suggest you ask your exh to pay to send her to a private school if you can't homeschool her. I wouldn't take this lightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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