mazakaal Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) Not looking for a debate on whether it's right to say the pledge. But I'm curious from reading the other thread where people actually say the pledge. I've been here in the UK for 9 years (the whole time I've homeschooled) so I've not been involved in any hs groups in the US. Is that the sort of setting where people are saying the pledge? I don't ever remember being in a situation as an adult when people said the pledge. I thought it was just done in schools. eta: Has there always been so much 'pledging' or is it since 9/11? I mean, I'm sure the scouts always did it, but at community meetings and swim/gymnastics/etc? Edited November 10, 2009 by MeganP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It is done at scout meetings as well in conjunction with the scout oath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 American Heritage Girls (a Christian scouting organization) and one of our local homeschool groups meets at the flagpole on post to say the pledge (we don't live on post and therefore don't participate in that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Scouts, ball games... The co-op I was in for a short while did it during opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Scouts, ball games, swim meets, 4-H mtgs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'm surprised that it's done so many places. I can see it at scouts, where the purpose is teaching good citizenship, but I wouldn't have expected it at ball games and co-op. Interesting. Sometimes it feels very strange to realize how completely out of touch with American culture I am in many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Community meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Gymnastics meets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'm surprised that it's done so many places. I can see it at scouts, where the purpose is teaching good citizenship, but I wouldn't have expected it at ball games and co-op. Interesting. Sometimes it feels very strange to realize how completely out of touch with American culture I am in many ways. It's not common here, even in my kids' school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knit247 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 We say it at American Heritage Girls and at co-op, which meets on a military base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inactive Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It actually used to be said a lot more... Today, it's been removed from a lot of different venues so as not to offend anyone -- you know, in the name of being politically correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Has there always been so much 'pledging' or is it since 9/11? I mean, I'm sure the scouts always did it, but at community meetings and swim/gymnastics/etc? It seems like most meetings (town hall, school board, scout, 4H, etc) have always started with the pledge. This Sunday, at church, we stood and said the pledge in honor of Veterans Day. I don't think it's gone up any, or if it has I haven't noticed. Here, nearly everything opens with the pledge :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It's not common here, even in my kids' school. That makes me think it might be a regional thing. In Northern VA, as a kid, we said the pledge at the beginning of the school day, but for Brownies we never said it. I don't remember saying it much there at all. Once we moved down here we said the pledge at anything where there was a flag to pledge to. Baseball games, school, community meetings... if there was a flag the first part of any gathering was a pledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 That makes me think it might be a regional thing. In Northern VA, as a kid, we said the pledge at the beginning of the school day, but for Brownies we never said it. I don't remember saying it much there at all. Once we moved down here we said the pledge at anything where there was a flag to pledge to. Baseball games, school, community meetings... if there was a flag the first part of any gathering was a pledge. I was just about to post that I don't see it in Northern VA, or in Hampton Roads (except grade school), but it could be because I don't go to scouts, etc... I haven't been anywhere as an adult that said the pledge that I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I haven't been anywhere as an adult that said the pledge that I can remember. Same here. Maybe it is just that I don't normally go to places where it might be said...not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 We said it at home at the beginning of homeschool for K and 1. Then we kinda dropped it. Schools say it here, and scouts, and DAR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 You know, I remember it in grade school, but Jr. High or High school. I don't think.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyK Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I haven't been anywhere as an adult that said the pledge that I can remember. Same for me. Also, my kids' school didn't say it, except for one teacher's class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amydavis Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I remember saying it in elementary school. My dd13 and ds9 (both in public school previously)both recall having said it at their elementary schools. The kids say it at church, in the children and youth activities. We have said it during actual church services if they happen to fall near a holiday like Memorial Day. My ds9 says it at scouts. I'm not certain if it has been done in our co-op, but it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It's not common here, even in my kids' school. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 You know, I remember it in grade school, but Jr. High or High school. I don't think.. It's strange that I never really noticed a difference until this thread was posted... You'd think it would've been obvious. Down here they really do say it at the beginning of every town meeting, county board meeting, school board meeting, baseball game... Like I posted earlier, if there's a flag, we say the pledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'm trying to remember the last time I was somewhere people said the pledge. DD's kindergarten class didn't do it, which surprised me. I would be utterly creeped out to say the pledge in church. In any other venue I would have no problem with standing respectfully and just not saying it, but in church... the pastor and I would be having a long talk. That's just totally inappropriate, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Sad. Not really. There are many ways the school teaches/reinforces patriotism and service to one's country. I don't mind the school leaving the teaching of the pledge up to the families to handle as best suits their beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I would be utterly creeped out to say the pledge in church. In any other venue I would have no problem with standing respectfully and just not saying it, but in church... the pastor and I would be having a long talk. That's just totally inappropriate, IMO. They don't normally do it and there are lots of soldiers connected with our church (either being family to members or members themselves), so I understood it to be a special thing for Veterans' Day. They did follow with the Christian Pledge. I never even knew there was such a thing :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It's not common here, even in my kids' school. pqr Sad. Not really. There are many ways the school teaches/reinforces patriotism and service to one's country. I don't mind the school leaving the teaching of the pledge up to the families to handle as best suits their beliefs. Yes it is very sad. In today's world when our nation is under attack and some of our finest have given their all to protect and defend this nation that there should even be debate about the correctness of saying the pledge is sad. It is sad that some actually deem children reciting the pledge as being akin to brainwashing. For those of us who have lived in nations where people are brainwashed a comment like that simply demonstrates a breathtaking degree of naiveté. It is sad that people will justify what is in essence a lack of patriotism (I do make an allowance for those whose religious beliefs [or lack thereof] call on them NOT to take an oath, but for the rest of us it is a simple lack of patriotism). It is sad that children are being taught that love of country and service to one's people should not be exhibited (in part) through something as simple and moving as the pledge. It is sad....horribly horribly sad that on the eve of Veteran's Day some of the comments made on other threads about the pledge should have been made. MacArthur's Farewell speech at West Point comes to mind when I look at this debate. (12 May 1962). The speech was in essence about duty, honor, country, but his words could also be applied to the discussion about the pledge. The unbelievers will say they are but words, but a slogan, but a flamboyant phrase. Every pedant, every demagogue, every cynic, every hypocrite, every troublemaker, and I am sorry to say, some others of an entirely different character, will try to downgrade them even to the extent of mockery and ridicule. -pqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Have our brave men and women fought and died for a pledge (written by a socialist) or for freedom? Why does the pledge mean more than freedom? Why does the pledge mean more than voting? Why does it mean more than showing up and playing chess with veterans down at the hall? Why does it mean more than bringing food to a needy neighbor? Why does it mean more than sending a care package to a soldier? The minute we begin to denigrate others for refusing to toe-the-line to a symbol, we have sacrificed REAL freedom for the sake of appearances. Yes, the pledge is said here at children's sporting events, in the classroom, and at our local Awana's group. My husband says it with his first grade classroom every morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeBookBread Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Have our brave men and women fought and died for a pledge (written by a socialist) or for freedom? Why does the pledge mean more than freedom? Why does the pledge mean more than voting? Why does it mean more than showing up and playing chess with veterans down at the hall? Why does it mean more than bringing food to a needy neighbor? Why does it mean more than sending a care package to a soldier? The minute we begin to denigrate others for refusing to toe-the-line to a symbol, we have sacrificed REAL freedom for the sake of appearances. :iagree: Why does a 100 or-so-year old statement hold as much weight to many people as the Constitution? This is why military members take an oath to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION and do NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance (I asked my dh -- I mentioned this in another one of the TOO MANY pledge threads out there right now -- he is a military member, and has never said the pledge AS a military member in ANY military setting.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Why does a 100 or-so-year old statement hold as much weight to many people as the Constitution? This is why military members take an oath to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION and do NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance (I asked my dh -- I mentioned this in another one of the TOO MANY pledge threads out there right now -- he is a military member, and has never said the pledge AS a military member in ANY military setting.) :iagree: My husband jokes that the government should be making a daily pledge of allegiance to the constitution and to the citizens of the United States rather than the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Have our brave men and women fought and died for a pledge (written by a socialist) or for freedom? Why does the pledge mean more than freedom? Why does the pledge mean more than voting? Why does it mean more than showing up and playing chess with veterans down at the hall? Why does it mean more than bringing food to a needy neighbor? Why does it mean more than sending a care package to a soldier? The minute we begin to denigrate others for refusing to toe-the-line to a symbol, we have sacrificed REAL freedom for the sake of appearances. I miss the logic. Who said it means MORE than freedom? Who said it means MORE than voting? I argue that while one has the right not to recite the pledge, not to do so is tawdry and smacks of a lack of patriotism (Again I make allowance for religious objections). How have I sacrificed real freedom for appearances? It is a nice phrase but it really needs some explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeBookBread Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I miss the logic. Who said it means MORE than freedom? Who said it means MORE than voting? I argue that while one has the right not to recite the pledge, not to do so is tawdry and smacks of a lack of patriotism (Again I make allowance for religious objections). How have I sacrificed real freedom for appearances? It is a nice phrase but it really needs some explanation. HUH?!?!?! How is not reciting the pledge tawdry and SHOWING A LACK OF PATRIOTISM? Be specific please. What in the world is MORE PATRIOTIC that serving with honor in the armed service of this great country? Please think before you type. ETA: I think I'm going to log off now. I'm not very happy and I don't want to type anything that I regret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I miss the logic. Who said it means MORE than freedom? Who said it means MORE than voting? I argue that while one has the right not to recite the pledge, not to do so is tawdry and smacks of a lack of patriotism (Again I make allowance for religious objections). How have I sacrificed real freedom for appearances? It is a nice phrase but it really needs some explanation. When a person is willing to pigeon hole a person as "unpatriotic" simply for not reciting the pledge, THAT is sacrificing REAL freedom for appearance. It isn't a matter at that point of whether the person embraces freedom or not, but rather do they keep up appearances by reciting in chorus. That a person could engage in all the previous TRUE demonstrations of patriotism and still be labeled "tawdry" for not saying the pledge is a total slap in the face of the freedom and individuality this country was founded upon. And I'm done because if I continue I'm going to get banned for snarkiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 When a person is willing to pigeon hole a person as "unpatriotic" simply for not reciting the pledge, THAT is sacrificing REAL freedom for appearance. It isn't a matter at that point of whether the person embraces freedom or not, but rather do they keep up appearances by reciting in chorus. That a person could engage in all the previous TRUE demonstrations of patriotism and still be labeled "tawdry" for not saying the pledge is a total slap in the face of the freedom and individuality this country was founded upon. If you are a patriot then why would you refuse to pledge allegiance?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) HUH?!?!?! How is not reciting the pledge tawdry and SHOWING A LACK OF PATRIOTISM? Be specific please. What in the world is MORE PATRIOTIC that serving with honor in the armed service of this great country? Please think before you type.. I have yet to meet a serviceman who would not say the pledge (again except for some who refuse on a religious basis). Be specific please and tell me where I claimed that servicemen are not patriotic? Show me how refusing to pledge allegiance to the US is not demonstrating a lack of patriotism. Edited November 10, 2009 by pqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 various scouting programs, graduations, and churches (not all, but there are some that equate Patriotism with Christianity, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I argue that while one has the right not to recite the pledge, not to do so is tawdry and smacks of a lack of patriotism (Again I make allowance for religious objections). Why the allowance for religious objections (which mine are as are MANY people that refuse)? If it's a sign of patriotism, then those of us religious objectors are already tossed in as not being "patriotic enough". Curious as to your logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.