A committed vs. a happy marriage.

[dirty ethel rackham]

That is completely different than chronic under-care about health, hygiene, and fitness issues. Weight is a complex, difficult subject. I think the difference Rosie speaks of (not that I presume to speak for her!) is respect for self and intimate others.

 

What if that chronic under-care comes from exhaustion from parenting, health problems and resulting depression? If chronic undercare was a reason for leaving, then dh should have left me after our last child was born. I went from being a hot mama to a dumpy, frumpy hot mess. I am eternally grateful that dh took the commitment part of marriage seriously because there have been seasons where neither of us was finding much happiness.

[lakotajm]

 

Well' date=' I did-at least with my step-dad! He was an a**hole, though.

But, I have to tell you, I was not devastated when my bio parents got divorced. I was four. It was rough on my sister, 6, who was a daddy's girl.

But when I realized we got to keep Mom, I was ok. Really.

 

It [i']does[/i] sometimes depend on the dynamics and the personalities of the individuals. But your friend is just being a selfish child. Can I get an AMEN?

Lakota

[katemary63]

the commitment came first, the happiness follows because what other choice is there: to be miserable for the rest of your life?

 

Ah....no wiser words have been spoken on this thread. We've hit 25 years together. From day one, we've been committed to the "us." Are we happy? Absolutely! But probably because we choose to be happy within the confines of the committment we've made. I consider my committement to be a good wife for life to my DH much more important then my own personal happiness. However, BEING a good wife and loving him (love the verb, not love the feeling) MAKES ME HAPPY!

[katemary63]

If you are in an abusive relationship or there is adultery taking place, etc. . then obviously that is an entirely different situation.

 

:iagree: Abuse of ANY kind and adultery are intolerable and I don't judge anyone who's marriage breaks up over these behaviors. Kids is these homes are not better off.

[LittleIzumi]

There was a study that showed when couples who rated their marriage as unhappy stayed together and tried to work it out, they later reported their marriage as much happier--77% of the unhappy couples went from a 1 to a 7 on a scale of 1-10 mostly from just "sticking it out." There are rough patches in EVERY marriage. It's the ones who work through them that become the cute old married couples :lol:

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/divorce_and_infidelity/should_i_get_a_divorce/is_there_hope_for_my_marriage.aspx

Both time and attitudes/behaviors have to change. And they can.

But the people have to be willing to work on it, I think--not just give up and keep the marriage in name only. That's sad.

[katemary63]

 

I just don't agree with this. What if a spouse is burned or disfigured in some way? Would it be just too much to expect someone to stay? If not' date=' then no amount of physical unattractiveness would be a justified reason for leaving a marriage in and of itself, in my opinion. Isn't this part of the [b']committment.[/b] Gosh, I THANK God my DH loves my inner self enough to actually love my outer self no matter what. (and I feel the same) When you choose to love someone, looks shouldn't have much, if anything, to do with it. At least I don't think so.

[katemary63]

not just give up and keep the marriage in name only. That's sad.

 

:iagree: Giving up is just a divorce without the legal papers. It's just as wrong.

[lulubelle]

We should be committed to work at making the other person feel loved, not just waiting for it ourselves. Typically a loved person is a happy person. It takes a lot of time and energy to grow as a couple. Many married couples today figure if "I" am not happy then I can go somewhere else and find it. Most people don't know the first thing about growing as a couple. We tend to find our sphere of managability and wallow. Husbands tend to excel in the work place, feel defeated at home, and receive no respect. Wives feel lonely and unloved. It is a terrible classic cycle. My husband and I are thankful every day that we attended a marriage class at our church for the first 3 years or our marriage! We go to a yearly marriage conference and take a date night when we can.

[tex-mex]

DH and I are still married due to our commitment. Most of the past 25 years have been 'happy'--but we have definitely had our moments!

 

DH and I had to grow up together. We were BABIES when we got married at 19! Living paycheck to paycheck for 4 years as 'starving married college students' was a rough start. Year 3 was nearly the end of our marriage. Fortunately we waited to have children until we were more financially (and emotionally) stable...the birth of our first child really brought us together--since we had just moved 1500 miles from our closest family!

 

We have had different 'seasons' in our marriage--but our commitment has never wavered. We have been in a 'funk' most of the past year--and we are looking forward to a MUCH NEEDED vacation alone--only 3 more weeks to wait! We hope to use the time alone to work on the 'happiness' factor in our marriage--and that really depends on our friendship... a week without TV and kids should give us the time we need to re-connect.

 

:iagree: I always look back on our wedding vows when times get tough. For better or worse, richer or poorer, and 'til death do us part. I love my hubby dearly. But whoever thinks marriage is always happy or lovey-dovey every minute is really fooling themselves. Wait 'til the first crisis hits (i.e. coma, cancer, bankruptcy, etc.) and you will see what the relationship can tolerate. It is a commitment. Tough times make you stronger. HTH

[LittleIzumi]

I just don't agree with this. What if a spouse is burned or disfigured in some way? Would it be just too much to expect someone to stay? If not, then no amount of physical unattractiveness would be a justified reason for leaving a marriage in and of itself, in my opinion. Isn't this part of the committment. Gosh, I THANK God my DH loves my inner self enough to actually love my outer self no matter what. (and I feel the same) When you choose to love someone, looks shouldn't have much, if anything, to do with it. At least I don't think so.

 

Yes. After all, when we get all old and wrinkly none of us are going to look too attractive :lol: and I don't think that should be a reason to get divorced. Attraction is mostly in your mind/mindset, at least true attraction (vs lust).

[Joanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joanne

That is completely different than chronic under-care about health, hygiene, and fitness issues. Weight is a complex, difficult subject. I think the difference Rosie speaks of (not that I presume to speak for her!) is respect for self and intimate others.

 

 

What if that chronic under-care comes from exhaustion from parenting, health problems and resulting depression? If chronic undercare was a reason for leaving, then dh should have left me after our last child was born. I went from being a hot mama to a dumpy, frumpy hot mess. I am eternally grateful that dh took the commitment part of marriage seriously because there have been seasons where neither of us was finding much happiness.

 

I didn't say chronic under-care = leaving. I was making a distinction between disfigurement due to disease and what Rosie was talking about.

 

Exhaustion from parenting littles, health problems and depression (which is another health and biological problem) are part of, IMO, "in sickness and in health", a commitment I take seriously and honor.

[LittleIzumi]

And while both partners bring a little "magic" into the relationship, they both have to work at polishing it together, keeping the magic shiny and active. (Phrasing I heard in a talk about relationships today.)

[Rosie_0801]

I just don't agree with this. What if a spouse is burned or disfigured in some way? Would it be just too much to expect someone to stay? If not, then no amount of physical unattractiveness would be a justified reason for leaving a marriage in and of itself, in my opinion. Isn't this part of the committment. Gosh, I THANK God my DH loves my inner self enough to actually love my outer self no matter what. (and I feel the same) When you choose to love someone, looks shouldn't have much, if anything, to do with it. At least I don't think so.

 

Most of this has been answered in previous posts. As to the rest, you probably won't understand unless you have experienced the issue and I hope you don't because it was horrible.

 

I think a fair amount of disagreement here comes from the difference between an Christian woman's point of view and a secular woman's point of view. I remember having a similar conversation with a soon to be married Christian friend. She focussed far more on the commitment and I focussed far more on compatibility. At the time, I had far more experience in a marriage type relationship than her, but we were living in very different cultures, so perhaps we were both right.

 

Rosie

[justamouse]

My grandparents marriage was not only committed, but it was toxic. They should have divorced for the love of their daughters. There is not enough therapy to go around, and it affected three generations. That said, I loved them both so much and cry for them. They were able to put aside their animosity for eachother when it came to helping raise me, but not when it came to raising their daughters.

 

My MIL and FIL are committed-committed in ways that are so self-sacrificial it makes your heart bleed for them-but they also should ahve gotten divorced. The mental anguish/doubt/resentment/depression my MIL has to live with -let's just say no one should. And I pray every day for a man to come into her life that will love her to the core of her being.

 

That is also a marriage that damaged both children.

 

Me? We're happily committed.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think of being committed to a marriage as being committed to happiness in the marriage, in a way. I've learned to approach my flaws and that of my dh with a certain detachment and even humor. I've learned to forgive and forget. I've learned to commit certain things to God's judgment and not my own. My marriage vows did include some pretty wide contrasts. . ."To have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part."

 

Things within those extremes don't nullify the marriage vows. I do believe that adultery does nullify the marriage vows although I do know some people who choose to continue on despite that. I honestly don't know how I would react to that and by God's grace I hope I don't have to find out. Trust was super hard for me to extend to any man and losing my trust in him would be extremely hard. I do believe that some things supersede the marriage vows - the safety of the married couple and their dependents in particular. So I would leave the marriage for my own safety and that of my children.

 

I was engaged to be married for 2 years before we tied the knot. And I tested that poor man mercilessly in those two years to make sure that he was the right kind of man to include in this kind of commitment. One of the things I made very, very sure of was that he was not someone who would put my safety at risk. (Of course, you can't be 100% sure but after the kind of abuse I had had before marriage, it was vitally important to me.)

[katemary63]

Being committed to the marriage relationship and it's health and prosperity is not the same as simply being committed to staying married no matter what. We've ended up comparing apples to oranges. When ever I mentioned committment to the marriage, I meant to the RELATIONSHIP. Being committed to stay married but having little or no committent to the relationship is useless.

[HeatherInWI]

I don't think you can have a happy marriage without having a committed marriage.

 

My husband and I have been blessed with a very happy marriage and are still best friends after 17 years together (15 married), but I don't think we would be if either of us thought of marriage as anything but permanent. We promised before God to love one another for better or for worse and for the rest of our lives, and knowing that the other takes that seriously is wonderfully freeing. It means that when we have differences, we have to work them out, and when we need to say something that could cause turmoil, we don't have to worry that the other will reject us. We've lived and loved through exhaustion, life-changing illness, elder-care (lots of it), excessive weight, demanding jobs, and just the busyness and stress of having and homeschooling children. I know that my husband loves me the same whether I weigh over 200 lbs or 115 lbs, whether I'm all made up and dressed to the nines or wearing sweats with hair that really needs a washing, or whether we have the luxury of making love every night or whether we can't even quite remember when the last time was. I return the favor and love him, truly love him, no matter what. That's commitment, and real love, and that results in happiness, too.

[stripe]

I think a fair amount of disagreement here comes from the difference between an Christian woman's point of view and a secular woman's point of view.

Interesting point. I think there are differences based on one's expectations of relationships. Cultures in which there is an expectation of ONE marriage (divorce is frowned upon) versus an expectation of SEVERAL (divorce is accepted), or in some cases relationships rather than actual marriage. Also where marriage is more or less easy (do you have to invest 3 years getting to know someone or can you propose early in the relationship, for example). Those who live in cultures where divorce is common and people are able to happily negotiate a relatively more complex situation (even while they may work to salvage each relationship before a divorce) have a different outlook than those who think to divorce means you're going to hell and/or where divorced people may be perceived as failures and cannot find a new spouse. I am not sure there is a single Christian perspective, but there are other non-secular views as well.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

 

Me, as well. After years of insanity and several separations, when I was 17, I told my mom that if she didn't divorce him this time, I was leaving and never coming back.

[Denisemomof4]

Yes. Especially if the couple has children. I think that our society has become one where people expect all their whims to be fulfilled and where people think they deserve happiness all the time. I think that when people make a commitment to each other in marriage, the responsible and respectful thing to do is to honor that commitment even if that means all our instant desires aren't being met. I think it damages people to walk away from a marriage. Obviously, there are circumstances where divorce is the best option, but "we grew apart" or "I'm just not happy anymore" don't really qualify, in my opinion.

 

 

 

I think we start by recognizing that our marriage partners can't give us everything in life, and we stop expecting that marriage is always going to be pleasant. I think that we continue by making sure that we find time to be with our partners in more stimulating and bond-building ways than sitting on the couch watching tv. Find a new hobby to share with your partner, travel together, find a way to engage with one another in new ways. Continue with finding things outside the marriage that feed parts of you that the marriage may not. Appreciate your partner for being with you, and try to be the type of partner that your spouse can appreciate.

 

 

Ftr, my husband and I are very happy, but I know several couples whose marriages were arranged, and I have talked to them about how marriages that are founded on things other than our western concept of love can turn out to be so happy and long-lived. What I have deduced is that it's a difference in expectations.

 

Tara

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I know several people who have walked away from a marriage just because the spark was gone, they fell out of love, etc. I think that marriage should be something BOTH people work at and stay committed to. If one person is unhappy in the marriage, I think it's oftentimes easy to focus on that and run away with those thoughts, allowing them to magnify. I'd rather the energies be spent putting time into the marriage to make it more fulfilling to both parties.

 

I have never known someone who divorced for serious issues like infidelity, abuse, among others, so I personally have never seen a marriage end where it couldn't be saved. I've also not seen a marriage end when all work possible was put into it. What I personally have seen is unhappiness and then turning away from one or both partners without even working on the issues. To me, that's sad.

[Impish]

I thank God for my husband's commitment to our marriage.

 

He'd been unhappy for some time. It was his commitment to our family that has had him sticking in there, and given me the time to grow and change, and become a better wife to him.

 

Happiness is also something that comes from within. He's also learned that. If he's unhappy with himself, he's of course unhappy with everything, including our marriage. We've talked about how you cannot make someone else responsible for our happiness...its simply too much to put on an imperfect person. I'm going to screw up from time to time, as is he. Its a choice. You can dwell on the negative, or choose to see the positive. He knows now that my love for him isn't dependent on him doing or being the right thing all the time. He doesn't *earn* it by being a 'good boy'. Its there, all the time, because he is my husband. Unconditional love is something he's never ever experienced before. Learning to show it in a way he understands is something that I had to work on. My love language is touch and words...his is service. For me, a kind word, a gentle touch, has me ready to run through fire...for him, a clean house has him feeling loved and appreciated. We struggle from time to time, but at least there's now more understanding, more grace on both sides of our marriage.

 

A marriage without commitment is doomed. It has no foundation, but rather as fragile as a house of cards. Its based on the unspoken, "I'm here as long as you are good, make me happy." and its impossible. Nobody can make someone happy, be the be all and end all at all times. How exhausting an existence like that must be. It would be living in fear, on adrenaline at all times, worried that anything less than perfection would be cause for abandonment.

 

I never planned on being disabled, especially from a work incident! I didn't work in a dangerous career, I was a nursing attendant in a long term care facility. Not a psych floor either. Thank GOD my husband has the honour, the commitment he does. Someone in chronic pain isn't at their most attractive, nor the highest libido. If he based his commitment on his happiness in the bedroom, he would have left me a few months after my injury!

[coralloyd]

Being committed to the marriage relationship and it's health and prosperity is not the same as simply being committed to staying married no matter what. We've ended up comparing apples to oranges. When ever I mentioned committment to the marriage, I meant to the RELATIONSHIP. Being committed to stay married but having little or no committent to the relationship is useless.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:Bravo!

[coralloyd]

I thank God for my husband's commitment to our marriage.

 

He'd been unhappy for some time. It was his commitment to our family that has had him sticking in there, and given me the time to grow and change, and become a better wife to him.

 

Happiness is also something that comes from within. He's also learned that. If he's unhappy with himself, he's of course unhappy with everything, including our marriage. We've talked about how you cannot make someone else responsible for our happiness...its simply too much to put on an imperfect person. I'm going to screw up from time to time, as is he. Its a choice. You can dwell on the negative, or choose to see the positive. He knows now that my love for him isn't dependent on him doing or being the right thing all the time. He doesn't *earn* it by being a 'good boy'. Its there, all the time, because he is my husband. Unconditional love is something he's never ever experienced before. Learning to show it in a way he understands is something that I had to work on. My love language is touch and words...his is service. For me, a kind word, a gentle touch, has me ready to run through fire...for him, a clean house has him feeling loved and appreciated. We struggle from time to time, but at least there's now more understanding, more grace on both sides of our marriage.

 

A marriage without commitment is doomed. It has no foundation, but rather as fragile as a house of cards. Its based on the unspoken, "I'm here as long as you are good, make me happy." and its impossible. Nobody can make someone happy, be the be all and end all at all times. How exhausting an existence like that must be. It would be living in fear, on adrenaline at all times, worried that anything less than perfection would be cause for abandonment.

 

I never planned on being disabled, especially from a work incident! I didn't work in a dangerous career, I was a nursing attendant in a long term care facility. Not a psych floor either. Thank GOD my husband has the honour, the commitment he does. Someone in chronic pain isn't at their most attractive, nor the highest libido. If he based his commitment on his happiness in the bedroom, he would have left me a few months after my injury!

 

 

And Ditto!

[Joanne]

For my next paper, I am re-reading a great book on topics that have been touched on in this thread. It's called "Families Where Grace is in Place" by Jeff Van Vonderan.

 

It's Christian and discusses the issue of family from the perspective of curse-filled vs. grace-filled relationships.

[BikeBookBread]

Good thread!

 

My dh and I have been married 14 years. We've had some ups and downs, nothing "shocking" but enough hard times to test our mettle, that's for sure. One thing was consistent: we have remained committed throughout. In my mind, commitment carries more weight, and the fruit of that commitment seems to be happiness. There were times when we were committed to each other -- and that was all. But then as an outflow of that commitment came happiness later due to the understanding we had with each other of our unwavering love and commitment. I don't know if there can be true happiness (the way I understand happiness) without commitment.

 

(If you are a Christian, you may want to read This Momentary Marriage by John Piper (I know, I know, Piper, Piper, Piper). I'm not being disrespectful and please don't throw tomatoes at me, but the book just won't make sense if you aren't reading it from a Christian perspective.)

[ubermomto5]

Attraction is not an unconditional state, no matter how much we might think it should be.

 

 

attraction is all in your mind. if you find reasons to be attracted to your husband (no matter how *attractive* he really is) you will feel it. he may even be unappealing because of habits or changes, but again, it's all in your mind and how you perceive it. going over and over in your mind all the negatives just breeds dissatisfaction, and why would you do that to your marriage?

 

eta: been married 16 years and we were 19 & 21, so there have been a lot of changes over here.

[Rosie_0801]

attraction is all in your mind. if you find reasons to be attracted to your husband (no matter how *attractive* he really is) you will feel it. he may even be unappealing because of habits or changes, but again, it's all in your mind and how you perceive it. going over and over in your mind all the negatives just breeds dissatisfaction, and why would you do that to your marriage?

 

eta: been married 16 years and we were 19 & 21, so there have been a lot of changes over here.

 

I'm glad that has been your experience.

 

Rosie

[kalanamak]

attraction is all in your mind. if you find reasons to be attracted to your husband (no matter how *attractive* he really is) you will feel it.

 

 

If you could bottle this, you'd be richer than Bill Gates.

[TammyinTN]

My dh and I were having a conversation and he remarked that he thinks most of his friends have more "committed" marriages rather than "happy" marriages.

 

Curious what the hive thinks.

 

Do you think this is true?

 

Do you think people should say married out of commitment if happiness is gone?

 

How does one turn a committed marriage back into happy?

 

Or is that possible?

 

DH and I have been married for 22 years and knew each other for 6 years before that. I would say we are happily committed to a great marriage. We've done 8 years of college and been in the military the whole time. It's hard work to have a happy marriage, but so worth the effort. When he's not deployed Friday nights are usually a date night and he always had something planned that was fun. Saturday was usually spent doing stuff as a family or traveling and enjoying our kids together. We stayed married because we are happy together. He's my dearest and best friend and never lets me down.