Anyone willing to discuss lower incomes and lifestyles??

[justamouse]

When we got married Dh and I were each bringing home 250 a week.

 

A year later we had our first together (I had a previous child) and we were living in a small apartment on top of a carriage house.

 

Great oaks from acorns grow.

Edited October 26, 2009 by justamouse

[LG Gone Wild]

I never knew that before.

 

Sorry, I have no advice and even if I did, you probably shouldn't take it.:tongue_smilie:

[TravelingChris]

Fivetails wrote that are we buying a racehorse?

 

 

I didn't marry my husband due to his earning capability. BUt all my boyfriends in college had earning capability. THe only one I had some question about was the one I had for the shortest time. THe others were all hard working students with ambitions and talents. I guess I never was attracted to people with such a different attitude from me. Since I was a hard working student, I expected my bf to be too. Since I had ambitions and was intelligent, I expected that from a bf too. I hope that my kids do too. We started out low income because I was working at a 15K job and he was in college, making some money with jobs. THen he graduated and it took him until Feb to get started in a career. In the meantime, we lived for a few months with his parents and worked temp jobs, then we moved back to Chicago and worked regular jobs waiting for his training. We weren't making hardly any money then. There was a recession and we were happy to be making something. He started his training in Feb and then the pay got messed up and he didn't get paid for a few months. That was super tough. I was trying to eat on $10 a week. At least I had health insurance and we knew we would have more money once he passed through training. But it wasn't that much more. Almost 23 years ago, 2nd LT pay wasn't very high. It was better by a bit than what we had before though.

 

That said, I can advise my kids all they want but once they are 18 they make their own decisions. My son was making a wrong one with a gf who wasn't suited for him (would be for many others just not for him). He knew we weren't thrilled but we treated her well and we didn't talk negatively. He ended the relationship when he realized that what we had seen wrong in the relationship was a real problem. My next is much more practical and I am sure she will be like me and not even bother with boys who don't meet her expectations.

 

IF there are serious character flaws that you think preclude your daughter's bf from being able to be a provider or maybe a medical or mental condition, the best advice I can give is mention it once but then be supportive. Badgering won't help and will drive her away.

[Desert Rat]

When my dh and I married, he didn't have the potential to earn money. He worked as a dishwasher in a restaurant. I worked as a clerk. We didn't have kids for the first 5 years we were married because we barely supported ourselves. We had an agreement that one of us would always work in a restaurant for the food.

Things have drastically changed. A friend of mine knew of a job installing appliances. He learned how to use tools, talk to clients, schedule deliveries. He then got a job with a homebuilder as a prepper (the guy who caulks baseboards and sweeps floors). I had our first son inbetween these 2 jobs. Within 4 months, he was an assistant superintendent and 3 years later a full superintendent making 10 times what he did as a dishwasher.

For us, we have still kept our modest home we purchased when he got his first construction job. We drive modest used cars and don't take fancy trips, but we earn more than I ever thought he was capable of. I do say I saw the diamond in the rough when I met him. I knew he had great things in him. No one else saw it but I did.

I tell you this story because maybe your dd sees this in her bf. Maybe not. I know it was difficult for my parents to watch us struggle in those early years but we are a stronger couple because of it.

I don't know if you this is really what you were looking for but I really just wanted to tell you an alternative.

HTH

[asta]

When my dh and I married, he didn't have the potential to earn money. He worked as a dishwasher in a restaurant. I worked as a clerk. We didn't have kids for the first 5 years we were married because we barely supported ourselves. We had an agreement that one of us would always work in a restaurant for the food.

Things have drastically changed. A friend of mine knew of a job installing appliances. He learned how to use tools, talk to clients, schedule deliveries. He then got a job with a homebuilder as a prepper (the guy who caulks baseboards and sweeps floors). I had our first son inbetween these 2 jobs. Within 4 months, he was an assistant superintendent and 3 years later a full superintendent making 10 times what he did as a dishwasher.

For us, we have still kept our modest home we purchased when he got his first construction job. We drive modest used cars and don't take fancy trips, but we earn more than I ever thought he was capable of. I do say I saw the diamond in the rough when I met him. I knew he had great things in him. No one else saw it but I did.

I tell you this story because maybe your dd sees this in her bf. Maybe not. I know it was difficult for my parents to watch us struggle in those early years but we are a stronger couple because of it.

I don't know if you this is really what you were looking for but I really just wanted to tell you an alternative.

HTH

 

I like this story. Thank you for sharing it.

 

 

a

[Ravin]

We are, at this point in our lives, poor. When I married DH, I didn't expect we'd be poor. I didn't understand at that time how fickle and variable the restaurant industry could be.

 

I don't especially mind being poor, though it has taken years for me to come to terms with it. Nor do I expect to be poor forever. We have plans to improve our lot--DH is going back to school next year, and I may be as well (or I may continue at my current job, which isn't great but does pay the bills, more or less, at least until DH finishes school). We both could have made better choices about money when we were younger. We had to learn some of those lessons the hard way.

 

Ultimately, though, the qualities that drew me to him as a husband weren't directly about money. I knew he had a good work ethic and that he'd put the needs of his family before his own. Those things are more important than the $ amount, yk?

[lionfamily1999]

Fivetails wrote that are we buying a racehorse?

 

Lol, she said we weren't buying a race horse. I believe it was to illustrate her point about NOT checking too far into someone.

[StaceyinLA]

Thanks for all the input!

 

Let me just clarify by saying that my dd has NOT been concerned with this; I have been. He doesn't have a diploma, and I just don't see him really pursuing anything real promising. He LOVES dd to death, but I'm not sure about his motivation. I know what it's like to struggle with a lazy husband (my ex).

 

I was just wondering if he makes, say, $10-12/hour doing manual labor whether or not survival is possible. My dd will be a cosmetologist, but she will want to be home when she has kids. I guess I just wondered if that is even a realistic hope. With some good planning, maybe...

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Thanks for all the input!

 

Let me just clarify by saying that my dd has NOT been concerned with this; I have been. He doesn't have a diploma, and I just don't see him really pursuing anything real promising. He LOVES dd to death, but I'm not sure about his motivation. I know what it's like to struggle with a lazy husband (my ex).

 

I was just wondering if he makes, say, $10-12/hour doing manual labor whether or not survival is possible. My dd will be a cosmetologist, but she will want to be home when she has kids. I guess I just wondered if that is even a realistic hope. With some good planning, maybe...

 

A good friend of mine ended up with a GED due to my high school not counting credits and his own stubborness. He ended up going to computer school and becoming a programmer.

 

I would suggest that your future SIL get his GED pursue vocational training as I know many electricians, plumbers, mechanics etc. who make good money. He could look for apprenticeship/helper opportunities in your area. Many places will invest in someone who shows good work ethic.

 

My own dh has a high school diploma but has always been willing to work 2+ jobs. At one point early in our marriage he worked on avionics (entry level electronics), cut grass at the airport and cleaned hangers to make money. He still does side jobs, even if we don't NEED the money. Make hay while the sun shines is his motto.

 

hth

K

[Ravin]

They can live on that. And if he's a good worker, there are plenty of careers where he can gain skills through apprenticeship while working, such as the building trades. Currently I'm bringing home about $10/hr. DW#2 makes less than that, and DH less still (plus much of his pay is taken by the county for jail fees). We house-share with DH's younger brother, who contributes to rent and utilities. He, too, doesn't make much; he's a server at the same restaurant where DH works in the kitchen.

 

I'm getting food stamps, we had WIC even when DH was making a fair bit more, until DD aged out of the program, and DD is on medicaid (though they changed the cutoff so I have to re-apply for KidsCare, AZ's version of CHIP). I have insurance through my work as well, which can cover DD (but I'm not going to next year because AHCCCS/KidsCare is better coverage and costs less) and covers me; I will not be on medicaid next year as I want to go on a program at work with a Health Savings Plan.

 

Our student loans from my college and DH's culinary school are in deferment; we have other debts that are higher priority, such as Dr. bills and messed up cell phone and cable bills from when we had to cancel contracts after DH lost his last decently paying job.

 

I probably have more earning potential; but I'm not willing to compromise DD's homeschool education, and a full-time day job would probably mean sending her to school just for the child care, and probably paying for additional child care to boot. So I work nights, DW#2 and BIL are one or the other home while I'm at work. We may revise the situation next year after DH is out of jail.

[johnandtinagilbert]

how's that for a one line response :)

 

We have 5 dc and live under 25K right now. The kids are covered under state insurance. and we receive food stamps (not happy about that, but we qualify and it helps).

 

We have made nearly twice as much and although things were easier, we weren't necessarily happier. In fact, still stressed about work. Now the stress is lack of work.

 

His earning potential is high, but he has never lived up to his potential. We scrape by, living very outside of the American box. We have overflowing love in our home. For that alone, I feel successful.

 

Do I wish there was more money -- every day. Is it a deal breaker? No. It would just be a bonus.

 

It's hard work. It's stressful. It's never glorious, but we survive, my children have never spent a day in p.s., hungry, without shelter, or neglected. We are a very close family and it's been worth many broke nights and worth having small Christmas and No family vacations for me to be home.

 

If she can have love and money....why not? But if pushing the issue means hurting your relationship with her, I'd step cautiously. You have good reason to wonder as hard times should be expected, but money does not matter for happiness.

[IsabelC]

When my daughter grows up, I hope she marries a good man who loves her with every breath in his body ~ whether he works at a high powered law firm or washes dishes at a pub. :)

Amen to that!:)

[IsabelC]

. I prefer not to be referred to as "extremely naive and at worst sheer idiocy" if it's all the same.

You're right, the I word was rude and inappropriate. I will edit my post. But the N word I stand by, although I was referring to people who don't consider those things at all, NOT people like you who considered things under a different heading, iykwim.

[Miss Sherry]

Good story. I think what you saw must have been his character. That he was a good person with a good work ethic and would work hard to support his family. Because of his good character traits he has succeeded.

 

 

 

When my dh and I married, he didn't have the potential to earn money. He worked as a dishwasher in a restaurant. I worked as a clerk. We didn't have kids for the first 5 years we were married because we barely supported ourselves. We had an agreement that one of us would always work in a restaurant for the food.

Things have drastically changed. A friend of mine knew of a job installing appliances. He learned how to use tools, talk to clients, schedule deliveries. He then got a job with a homebuilder as a prepper (the guy who caulks baseboards and sweeps floors). I had our first son inbetween these 2 jobs. Within 4 months, he was an assistant superintendent and 3 years later a full superintendent making 10 times what he did as a dishwasher.

For us, we have still kept our modest home we purchased when he got his first construction job. We drive modest used cars and don't take fancy trips, but we earn more than I ever thought he was capable of. I do say I saw the diamond in the rough when I met him. I knew he had great things in him. No one else saw it but I did.

I tell you this story because maybe your dd sees this in her bf. Maybe not. I know it was difficult for my parents to watch us struggle in those early years but we are a stronger couple because of it.

I don't know if you this is really what you were looking for but I really just wanted to tell you an alternative.

HTH

[Dawn in OH]

I haven't read all the replies, as this thread has gotten quite long. I will give you my opinion on it, for what it's worth.

 

When you are young and in love you can endure almost anything, and rarely see any possible obstacles in the future. You can also make due with very little.

 

As you get older and begin wanting children, a home, a vacation, a new couch, etc it gets frustrating. Medical care isn't cheap, food, and clothing aren't cheap. The kids all need shoes, Christmas is coming, the car breaks down, etc. Over the years, you get bitter and angry. You get tired.

 

We had a series of events that led to a lower income than we were accustomed to. We thought we could tolerate it for a while. That while lasted longer than we ever imagined. Every time we got ahead and things started looking up, something (beyond our control) would happen that set us back.

 

Things are better now. But in hindsight, I really wish we had had more money in the bank, secondary skills to fall back, furthered or continued our education and just all around made some better choices in some situations.

 

I really don't think I would sign up for a life of a low income future no matter how much I loved the man and I wouldn't want that for my daughter either.

 

But if my daughter really loved someone who didn't look to have a lot of potential right now, I would be more than happy to give them some pointers on how to better themselves and their situation before pursuing marriage. If he were interested in bettering himself I would be happy and supportive. If he wasn't interested, I think I would have to let her know that I didn't think she was making a good decision.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Dawn in OH

[Tree House Academy]

I haven't read this whole thread, but thought i would share something:

 

The median income in my state is around 46K a year. When I married my older son's dad in 1999, we were both poor college students. We lived on literally NOTHING, but we never wanted for anything. After college, my ex-h was making around 36K a year and we were very comfortable as a family of 3. We made it work. We drove cars with no payments, we lived in a reasonable home with a $750 mortgage. It was easy. When I started working making 50K a year the last year we were married, we thought we had won the lottery.

 

We divorced and I remarried. My current husband is an Reliability Engineer and he is currently in management at an Engineering firm. He makes quite a bit more than my ex-h and I put together. We increased our family size to 4 from 3, but now what we have is a much bigger house, much nicer cars, and a lot more money going to pay off the cars and the house!

 

Making 130K a year doesn't mean you have a lot of money - it is all depending on how you spend it, and how you choose to live. I don't regret having what we have now, but I surely wasn't unhappy and in misery when I had less. As a matter of fact, I felt much more FREE than...and my ex-husband felt much less TIED down to his job. My dh worries constantly that if he were to lose his job, we could really go under fast. That wasn't a concern back then.

 

And finally, I would much rather marry a man that I love who has nothing than to have all the riches in the world. In the end, that love is what will see your dd and her future husband through the emotional hard times...not money.

[lakotajm]

The median income in my state is around 46K a year.

 

Exactly what you'll need to consider first in this equation-what's the cost of living there and the typical starting pay? Here (Southeast Missouri), cost of living is low, so a good job is teaching (yes, I'm serious!), for example, or construction (there isn't much corporate because it's rural.) And we are a family of 5 living on about $18,000. It is just barely enough, but there are gaps we fall through, like the adults having no health insurance-can't qualify for medicaid and can't afford private. We have food stamps and get a box monthly at the food pantry-or else food costs would be our biggest money vacuum, making paying on our debt impossible. We have property deeded over from his dad (a farm of over 400 acres that his family has homesteaded for over 150 years). We had a house and then it burned so now we have to build again-without help. No mortgage, but then he has to work to pay bills when he otherwise could work on the house.

 

So more money would help, but less wouldn't kill us, and...

 

 

Making 130K a year doesn't mean you have a lot of money - it is all depending on how you spend it, and how you choose to live.

 

I totally agree with that! it seems there is always something you would buy if you could buy it, so when more starts coming in, satelllite tv sounds nice. Then it's...and I'd love a blackberry. So not being able to buy stuff ain't so bad. Keeps you from losing touch with what's really important.

 

And finally, I would much rather marry a man that I love who has nothing than to have all the riches in the world. In the end, that love is what will see your dd and her future husband through the emotional hard times...not money.

 

 

Amen to that!

 

Honestly, I wish I had been less practical and business-like in considering my husband as a mate (married at age 32 and already had one child-it hinged a great deal on being able to stay home and homeschool.) We are not as close and intimate as I would like. We don't communicate well.

 

Good luck on "the talk". Even with all this abundant advice, you're gonna need it.

 

Lakota

[Renee in NC]

...

Edited October 30, 2009 by Renee in FL

[lionfamily1999]

You're right, the I word was rude and inappropriate. I will edit my post. But the N word I stand by, although I was referring to people who don't consider those things at all, NOT people like you who considered things under a different heading, iykwim.

Thanks :)

 

I think that most people do discuss the things you listed, but I'm not sure I know anyone that really sits down and plans it. I was starry eyed mooning over dh when we got married. I can't imagine having planned anything :lol:

[SheWillFly]

I was just wondering if he makes, say, $10-12/hour doing manual labor whether or not survival is possible. My dd will be a cosmetologist, but she will want to be home when she has kids. I guess I just wondered if that is even a realistic hope. With some good planning, maybe...

If we had good planning we could have made it on my income alone after my husband was forced out of his job and we had a 2 year old and one on the way. We weren't planning for that so it was significantly more difficult for us. We had recently purchased a brand new car for me and I had student loans. Without those two expenses we could have made it work for us long term.

 

With what your daughter's carreer would be it is something she can continue to do without too much added burden after she has children. A very good homeschooling friend of mine stayed home full-time after her oldest was born but she continued to work as a stylist for her friends and previous clients. She would either go to their house while her husband stayed with the kids or she would bring them along or the client would come to her house. It was how they paid for their homeschool for a long time.

[StaceyinLA]

her being able to continue to earn money doing hair while avoiding daycare, school, etc. I know it is feasible. I have a friend who just sets all her appts on one day. She does one fairly long day a week, but is with her kids for 6 other days. On her long day, her older daughter has them. My dd, of course, would have ME!! :tongue_smilie:

 

I feel like it's doable. I am not discouraging her, but trying to encourage her to give him some time to make some progress toward a future before they settle into a life together forever.

 

I DO appreciate all the input. Thanks so much for that!!

[katemary63]

When my daughter grows up, I hope she marries a good man who loves her with every breath in his body ~ whether he works at a high powered law firm or washes dishes at a pub. :)

 

Thank you for stating this. I am honestly shocked at how many people don't think the same way. I wish the exact thing for my three DD. I married my DH when he was 22 and stocked shelves at Jewel third shift for $5.25/ hour. We was in school part time when we met but quit so he could earn enough money for us to get married. I knew he was bright and a hard worker. I had no clue weather we would be rich or poor or somewhere in between for the rest of our lives and I didn't care. I knew that we would both work hard and do our best - togehter. Beyond that, I don't think anyone knows for sure how things will work out. But I would never in a million years considered his "earning potential" when making the decision to marry him. Never in a million years. He has done well for us. He is the hardest worker I have ever known. But we live very modestly and don't always have the money for things we want or even need ( by some peoples standards). (He never went back to school, too busy providing) But when I lay my head down at night, on his strong shoulder and he kisses my head and whispers in my ear that he loves me, there isn't a thing in the world that would be worth trading that for! We've been together 25 years and have four wonderful children. I adore him. I can't imagine what my life would have been like if I had married the engineer my dad wanted me to marry. I'll take my shelf stocker any day!

[IsabelC]

When I married my dh he was still studying and I was earning under $20k ($18k US). We saved up to buy cars and take an extended trip overseas. Now we are buying our home and bringing up 3 children with me not working and him not working full time. We've never had any difficulties with money, because we are on the same page with our attitudes towards it.

[Liz CA]

Can the limitations be overcome, eg if he works in a low income kind of job, could he retrain and get more lucrative work? Whatever the scenario, she needs to look at the wider ramifications, and what they plan to do about the situation, and what are the realistic long term expectations.

 

 

I was thinking along these lines as well. When dh and I got married, he did not have a college degree nor was he very interested in obtaining one. Forward a few years and he is deciding he is getting a degree - so he did. Very few things in life are unchangeable if one works at it.

Other than that, it depends on a lot of circumstances as mentioned by others, i.e. area they will be living in. Will they be growing veggies or buying them? Will she be able to contribute by working part-time or full-time? Are they willing to drive used cars and live with used furniture - for a while at least. Who is the spender and who is the saver in the relationship? Can they talk about money, budgeting and sacrificing without getting upset with each other? Is one domineering the other? Are their expectations realistic?

Have each make a list, detailing what they think are absolute must-haves. Will they be able to afford those must-haves on their lists?

 

[mommyrooch]

Thanks for all the input!

 

Let me just clarify by saying that my dd has NOT been concerned with this; I have been. He doesn't have a diploma, and I just don't see him really pursuing anything real promising. He LOVES dd to death, but I'm not sure about his motivation. I know what it's like to struggle with a lazy husband (my ex).

 

I was just wondering if he makes, say, $10-12/hour doing manual labor whether or not survival is possible. My dd will be a cosmetologist, but she will want to be home when she has kids. I guess I just wondered if that is even a realistic hope. With some good planning, maybe...

 

I thought I would share a hopeful story with you about how people can change and take you by surprise.

 

My older brother was the biggest slacker I had ever known. He was lazy about school and never even got his high school diploma. He spent 2 years after high school pretty much wasting his time and potential on meaningless pursuits (endless hours of computer games, hanging out with his friends, etc. He couldn't hold down a job to save his life.

 

At about the age of 20 something changed in him. He surprised us all. He went back and got his GED. After getting his GED he enrolled into the local community college to just take a few courses. Well, long story short, he absolutely excelled in college.

 

He not only took a few courses but he all of a sudden decided that he was going to pursue a doctors degree in Pharmacy!!!!:001_huh: This coming from the king of slackers!

 

We all supported him but honestly didn't think he would do it.

 

I am so happy to say that HE PROVED US ALL WRONG!!!!

 

My brother did stick with it. Not only did he stick with it but he excelled. He was accepted into pharmacy school with a GPA of 3.8. He graduated with an 8 year doctors degree. He is now a successful Doctor of Pharmacy!!! :001_smile: And once he finally went to college it only took him the 8 years. He stuck with it sometimes taking over 30 hours a semester!! Talk about motivated. :D

 

He is now 35 years old making well over 6 figures. He specialized in infectious disease and is the lead Pharmacist for a local infusion company.

He is happily married (13 years together) and they have two precious twin boys together. They own a nice brick home in an upscale neighborhood and they both drive new Toyota's. He's the rich boy in the family. ;)

 

All of this success came from a slacking young boy that never even graduated from high school. He got into college on a GED!

 

My point in this is to not completely sell this young man short. I understand your concern for your dd and I don't blame you for being sceptical. I do however know that you can't always judge a book by it's cover. My brother so completly proved that to all of us. We really believed he would never amount to anything and he proved us all wrong. He is now the most successful person in our whole family.

 

I hope that this story gives you another perspective and shows you that people can change for the better.

 

I do hope for a happy life for your dd no matter what path she chooses. :001_smile:

[Renee in NC]

...

Edited October 30, 2009 by Renee in FL

[StaceyinLA]

It is really awesome to hear such positive things.

 

I agree that love is THE MOST important thing, and having someone that loves you with every ounce of their being.

 

I guess my reason for this was not to deter them from marrying, but to also have some ideas about how to help them budget and direct them if they would be living on a limited income - more like encouragement on what they COULD live on and how, if necessary - kinda like what they could expect with, say, $20,000/year.

 

Yes I want her to give him some time to make forward progress, but I would not stop her from marrying him if its what she truly wanted. I know he has plenty of time to mature and make some better choices.

[melissel]

It is really awesome to hear such positive things.

 

I agree that love is THE MOST important thing, and having someone that loves you with every ounce of their being.

 

I guess my reason for this was not to deter them from marrying, but to also have some ideas about how to help them budget and direct them if they would be living on a limited income - more like encouragement on what they COULD live on and how, if necessary - kinda like what they could expect with, say, $20,000/year.

 

Yes I want her to give him some time to make forward progress, but I would not stop her from marrying him if its what she truly wanted. I know he has plenty of time to mature and make some better choices.

 

I think your intentions and perspective are both terrific. I hope they're very happy if they end up together.