Any ideas as to why my child behaves like this?

[fiddledeedee]

I'm not sure how to start this, but I really need some help, so I'll do my best to just....say it. Please bear with the long story.

 

My son is 3 years and 8 months old. He has apraxia of speech, so he's speech delayed, but can communicate most of what he wants to say. We've learned to interpret what he's saying :)

 

From the moment this child was born, life has been very difficult. He had fluid in his ears, and had tubes put in at 4 1/2 months old. Every night from the time he was two weeks old and on, he screamed alot. Till the wee hours of the morning. He's always been a horrible sleeper. At two years old I begged my doctor for something to help me, he introduced me to melatonin. A couple months after that, I slept through the night for the first time in 2 years, versus being woken up 10-30 times per night. Really. He does ok now, but never goes to bed earlier than 10 pm. If he does, he gets back up again. He sometimes has sleep problems, but life in that department is better. Just some background info on sleep issues.

 

He's been to Early Intervention from 2-3 years old. He's now in preschool twice a week because of the speech delay. Those few hours a week he's gone are precious to me, they are the only time I have off.

 

Here's where my problem lies. His behaviors are very difficult for our family. I feel like my entire life revolves around him. He cries many, many times a day. If you tell him no, he throws himself on the floor and screams. Multiple times a day. He hits us, especially his 9yo sister, but all of us. Bites us. Throws things at us. If we go out anywhere and he's not contained in a stroller or cart, he will be on the floor screaming multiple times.

 

He is constantly getting into trouble. We have a two story house, so he'll sneak off to another floor and get into things. This last week alone he's gotten into Sharpies twice, coloring on himself, the computer desk, and my computer chair. Sprayed laundry stain remover all over the laundry room, then opened the bottle and poured it on the floor. Filled a mixing bowl full of oil, all over the floor, then emptied garlic salt into it. Gets the cats water bowl and dumps it out on the floor and tries to refill it. Takes his diaper off and pees on the floor (he knows to sit on the toilet, even though he's not potty trained). I have to hide things from him, but he can scale up the kitchen cabinets without assistance. He does these kind of things continuously. Unrolls toilet paper, pours milk all over. Etc etc.

 

He doesn't obey us most of the time. Maybe 10% of the time he'll do what we ask.

 

He can't write at all, just scribbles. He doesn't color, like in a coloring book, he knows the alphabet and the sounds. Occasionally he'll play by himself nicely for a short amount of time, but not much! Sometimes he'll play nicely with his sister. But not much!

 

He seems so immature to me compared to his sister, it feels more like he is 2 than nearly 4. It's hard to explain what it's like, but I feel like I'm a prisoner, which makes no sense, because I'm the adult. I should know how to parent him, but I don't.

 

On the other hand, and this is usually first thing in the morning and at night at bedtime, he can be very loving and sweet to me. He is closest to me, and loves me very much. He'll tell me he "wuffs me" and will hug and kiss me. He's such a sweetheart at these times, it's hard to believe he's the same kid that I tell not to do something, and 2 minutes later he's snuck off to do it again.

 

He is constantly flitting from one thing to another. He has never watched a movie in its entirety. At night when he's trying to settle down to sleep, he turns over and over again until the melatonin finally knocks him out.

 

I don't know if I was just spoiled by my daughter, and he's just a typical "boy" and I'm being a wimp, or if he has issues that need to be addressed. I know there are moms on this board with kids with different needs, and thought maybe someone else would know what to think about my son. ADHD? Something else? I'm not asking anyone to diagnose him online, just maybe you've had a kid like this, so you know what I mean!!

 

Please chime in if you have an idea of why he acts like this. I kind of feel like I'm losing my mind. I've been on anti depressants for 2 months, and I still feel like I can't cope. So it might just be me. I just want my happy family back, instead of feeling like we are being held hostage by a raging 3 year old.

 

Thanks for reading this lengthy post.

[Laura Corin]

One thing did jump out at me: you said that he goes onto the other storey and gets into trouble. Would you be able to use a stair gate/child gate to reduce his area of movement? I don't know if he's too big for that.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[justamouse]

Grrr! I had a post typed out and hit something and whammo! Gone!

 

I would start with a pediatric neurologist, or, if you can find one, a pediatric developmental neurologist. Right away, if you can. They were my saving grace. AND, if I were you I'd take him to a pediatric allergist. That nose thing-I'm betting he's highly allergic to something. I had a great allergist and he used to tell me stories like that. Get comprehensive testing done on him and find one that takes you seriously.

 

Other than that, get the gate and set firm limits, boundaries and consequences. It will be hard on you, you're already exhausted, but it will get worse if you do nothing. My oldest guy was diagnosed with ADHD when he was 7, but we knew something was wrong almost as soon as he could sit up. The only way he slept was in the car-we'd have to drive him for HOURS. Sheer exhaustion. But I was so tired and (he was my first ) so I would just follow him around cleaning up after him, but never diciplining him. No structure PLUS ADHD is a toxic combo, and I've paid for it in spades. (I learned my lesson well, the others are amazing angels. I can take them anywhere and I've had to yell at my 14 yo daughter less than 10 times in her life and never spanked her. Seriously. They're the jewels in my crown) I'm not saying your little guy has ADHD, but the lack of boundaries can be the fatal blow for you if you do nothing. Get a time out chair, make sure he knows the rules and put him in it when he doesn't obey. Then make sure he stays. "You don't hit, bite/throw things so now you have to sit in the chair." Keep it away from YOU. Meaning keep your cool and this is now just what happens when he breaks a rule. Set a timer for his age in minutes and make sure he stays. If he gets out then put him right back in. It will take a lot of hard work on your part and you're already too tired to do it but you have to.

 

Hang in there. :grouphug:

 

Just remembered something-Nordic Naturals sells fish oil that tastes like orange and Coromega makes a fish oil orange paste that kids don't mind taking. I would start supplementing him with that right away, and get him tested for a Vit D deficiency and supplement accordingly.

Edited October 20, 2009 by justamouse

[at the beach]

Possibly on the autism spectrum?

 

I struggled with a lot of the same things you describe with my youngest. I know my daughter does much better when I have her on a strict diet, Feingold style and GFCF as well as watching corn syrup intake. It's not easy, and we haven't always been successful sticking to it, but it seems to make a big difference in her behavior and manageability.

[Twinmom]

To the great list already given, I'd add an eval for sensory processing disorder. That might be one piece of a complex puzzle. You've described some behaviors that sound sensory-seeking to me, though they could be associated with other issues.

 

My twins had a lot of the same behaviors at that age, including the speech issue and the ear tubes. We've always said that if it could be broken, scaled or destroyed in any way, the two of them could do it! I literally had them on leashes or strapped into a stroller for a couple of years...setting limits was a nightmare. They also have fine motor issues and still struggle with handwriting, coloring in the lines, etc. I had them in ECI from as early as possible, in public special needs preschool for speech for several years, now they are in OT for SPD and are improving. I have another child, my DD10, who has SPD and some neurological problems...add the three together and I'm a basket case without antidepressants (which I needed several months to adjust to, including upping the dose so hang in there with them...) and my faith.

 

I truly do understand your frustration...you sound a lot like me. My heart goes out to you! If you want to just vent, PM me at any time. This is likely NOT about you and your parenting skills but rather about a disability that your child is experiencing. Do seek out a neuropsych eval and look into SPD...your child is still young and this is a great time to start interventions. No matter what you discover through evals, there is a lot you can do to help your son and family once you pinpoint the problem.

 

:grouphug:

Edited October 20, 2009 by Twinmom

[Ottakee]

Does the school have any input? I know that they can not diagnose, etc. but what are they seeing?

 

I agree with finding a pediatric allergist and peds. neurologist ASAP. Allergies came to mind right away--wheat and dairy are big ones but there are others as well.

 

Has he had a sleep study or EEG done? That might help you figure out the sleep stuff. If sleep is off, the day will be bad.

 

A pediatric psychiatrist and/or peds. neuropsychologist might also be very helpful. I would want to rule out allergies, seizures, thyroid, blood sugar, anemia, etc. first.

 

Has he had a full eval by an audiologist? Not just the screening they do for preschool but the full eval? It could be he has a slight hearing loss that affects him as well.

 

I know how hard this was. When my now 14dd was younger she had the attention span of NOTHING. I could never even read her a board book as she wouldn't sit still that long. When I took her for an eval the neuropsychologist came out of her office and said that SHE was tired........my dd did not attend to any activity in the room for more than 15 seconds.....and this was over a 1 1/2 hour eval.

 

I would also see if you can qualify for any respite services, either through community mental health or even people from church, relatives, etc. Even getting a 2 hour nap or an evening away with dh can really help.

 

My dd ended up with bipolar, ADHD, seizures, anemia, hypothyroid and likely driving all of this, 3 different mitochondrial disorders. We are now at 14 getting all of the pieces put together and life is SO much better.

[lionfamily1999]

Some of what you put does sound like typical behavior. My youngest, about the same age, gets into things. He had started hitting, swift and consistent action is putting a stop to that, but you have to be consistent ;) He goes into the other end of the house and gets into things and we have Sharpie on four different walls in our house (and now NO SHARPIES are allowed in the house).

 

Luke is very different than my older two were. DD was always glad to sit and color, she was filling up notebooks with "pictures" by this age. Older ds was playing quietly in his room, in his own little world, perfectly happy. At the same time, Luke has greater physical capabilities than either of the older two had at his age. He can climb and balance and jump like a little monkey :glare:

 

There could be an 'extent' difference between our boys (your ds may go further with all these things, bite harder, hit more, iykwIm), but as for generalities they're pretty close. We did not have the ear issues or sleep issues. Luke will stay up till 10, unless I can get him to sleep by 8. If he goes to bed before 7:30, he'll be up around 12, 1 and be UP, wide awake and ready for breakfast.

 

:grouphug:

 

I know you're not alone in this. I think some of your worry is about normal things (every child is different, his not being like dd is perfectly normal), but then... that's what moms do best :)

[Ottakee]

I will agree that some of this is very typical behavior but what I am getting from the poster is that it is the extent and frequency of the behavior. That is what we had here.

 

A typical child might have a tantrum once a day, this child, once every 10 minutes. A tantrum might last 2-3 minutes for some kids, hours for others. It is the CONSTANT, never ending stuff they are doing that makes it really stand out.

[lionfamily1999]

I will agree that some of this is very typical behavior but what I am getting from the poster is that it is the extent and frequency of the behavior. That is what we had here.

 

A typical child might have a tantrum once a day, this child, once every 10 minutes. A tantrum might last 2-3 minutes for some kids, hours for others. It is the CONSTANT, never ending stuff they are doing that makes it really stand out.

I wonder how much the frequency depends on previous experience. My dd was a super easy child, when ds came along and he was running so early, I thought he was hyperactive, because dd was my grounds for comparison. Now, with my youngest... both the olders seem to be the easiest children on Earth. For Luke, it's really hard for me to view him without comparing him to the older two, and that makes it difficult for me to see his high level of activity in perspective. I know that can make the differences in kids seem like symptoms of a problem, when it's actually just a different person behaving normally, for someone that's like them, iykwIm.

[Ottakee]

I wonder how much the frequency depends on previous experience. I know that can make the differences in kids seem like symptoms of a problem, when it's actually just a different person behaving normally, for someone that's like them, iykwIm.

 

This is where the school, Sunday school or others could come in. They could help say whether or not his behavior was typical for a child of his age or not.

 

I would still suggest seeing an allergist, working on the sleep stuff, etc.

[AliR]

First of all, a big hug from me. BTDT. Secondly, I advise you to seek an evaluation right away. If there is something else going on (and there was for us) you will want to know as soon as possible so that you have an explanation for this behavior and therapies etc lined up to work on.

 

One thing I wanted to mention that was told to me by someone who works with speech delayed children like DD is that immaturity often goes with the speech delay. So it would not be unusual for your son to be behaving like a two year old even though he is older. Add to that the frustration of not being able to communicate properly, and the physical abilities of a nearly four year old, then you have an explosive mixture. I would also expect any sleep deprived child to be awful to deal with, even if they are the quietest little person normally. Even though the melatonin has been life changing for you, your son is still seriously short on the amount of sleep a young child needs.

 

I would check with the pre-school what is going on there, and perhaps be prepared to go along and observe how he is in this environment. I would also keep a diary of what appears to set off particularly difficult behavior - this will be very useful in discussions with a healthcare professional. Sometimes it may not be obvious what is causing the meltdowns. For us, the behavior was bad at home but ok at kindergarten. It was easy to believe that it was a parenting problem, or perhaps a lack of structure to DDs time outside school. When we withdrew DD from school, the behavior at home radically improved, so it became obvious the problem was not at home. It is only now that DD has better communication skills that she has been able to explain why she felt the way she did.

 

You are having a rough time; take any help (including the anti-depressants) that you can to keep your sanity. I believe that things will improve as your boy gets older with better communication skills, but you have to work on a behavior management plan now and this is difficult without knowing if there is some underlying cause why he is behaving this way.

 

Please let us know how you get on.

 

Please talk to your husband, then pick up the phone to start the evaluation procedure.

[zaichiki]

I have two boys, one of whom is also nearing 4. It's true that boys are generally more active than girls, but the frequency and intensity you describe does not sound typical. For your own peace of mind, as others have suggested, I think you should get an evaluation. It would be a great relief to you to either a) have things ruled out or b) begin any needed remediation sooner rather than later. Whatever the outcome, an evaluation would be a good thing for you and your son.

[fiddledeedee]

Thank you for the replies. I had been planning to talk to his teacher today, but yesterday was a hard day and I ended up in tears by the time he went to bed. So I came to ask what you all thought.

 

I know that we could be more consistent with discipline, and I can see where just telling him not to hit isn't as effective as his "corner", which he gets sent to, but not every time. I guess he's going to spend more time there! And initially require more of my time to discipline more, but later I should reap the benefits of that, I hope!

 

As far as all these evaluations, I'm not sure where to start. My regular pediatrician? We also live in a small town, and some of these specialists you're all talking about are going to be a drive to get to.

 

Thank you for the empathy as well. I know I don't have the hardest child ever, or even close to it, but sometimes it's hard to keep my head above water. In the past my son had such separation anxiety we never left him. We don't have family to help watch him, and I'm reluctant to have a babysitter try and deal with him, so I know the fact I don't have time away from him makes it hard too.

 

Thank you to everyone that responded. I appreciate it!

[Misty]

You are right to be concerned. There are some red flags here. He sounds EXACTLY like my now 6-year-old daughter. She was just like that. Truly, I felt as I was reliving those days as I read your post. Makes me sick to my stomach to think about it! It was that bad! She is my 3rd daughter. My first two were not like that. She also takes melatonin for sleep. I don't know what I would do without it!

 

She is now diagnosed with Asperger's, OCD, ADHD, Nonverbal Learning Disorder, and Sensory Processing Disorder. You need to have your son evaluated by either a child psychologist, pediatric neurologist, or a developmental pediatrician. I really think that your son at least has ADHD if nothing else. Once he has been evaluated you will know what therapies he needs. He may need Occupational Therapy to help with his attention, fine motor control, and sensory needs. My daughter also could not write or draw up until recently. She did 6 months of OT and it helped tremendously. She is now doing 10 hours of ABA therapy each week. They work on behavior issues, social issues, and sensory issues. Is your son a picky eater? It's common with these kids. My daughter receives feeding therapy through ABA as well.

 

I would also guess that your son has some food allergies or food sensitivities and this is what's fueling everything from the fluid in his ears as an infant, to the sleepless nights, to the hyperactivity. Does he have any reoccuring rashes or eczema? This is not always present, but it sometimes is with kids who have allergies or sensitivities. What about dark circles under his eyes? This is another sign. You will want to rule out gluten and dairy sensitivities. A regular allergy clinic cannot do this for you. There are some tests you can order on-line. Another way to do it is do an elimination diet. Start with dairy since that's the easiest. Keep him dairy free for at least one month. If he improves then you will know he is sensitive to the protein in dairy.

 

Some books for you to read...

 

The Out of Sync Child

Is This Your Child? by Doris Rapp

 

Good luck and keep us posted on what you find out.

[Misty]

As far as all these evaluations, I'm not sure where to start. My regular pediatrician? We also live in a small town, and some of these specialists you're all talking about are going to be a drive to get to.

 

Yes, start with your pediatrician. They can refer you to the appropriate specialist. We also live in a small town and we have to drive to our specialists and therapies. My daughter's ABA therapy is an hour away. She is there for five hours, twice a week. I take my other kids to a nearby library and we do school and read books for those five hours.

[Dobela]

He is constantly getting into trouble. We have a two story house, so he'll sneak off to another floor and get into things. This last week alone he's gotten into Sharpies twice, coloring on himself, the computer desk, and my computer chair. Sprayed laundry stain remover all over the laundry room, then opened the bottle and poured it on the floor. Filled a mixing bowl full of oil, all over the floor, then emptied garlic salt into it. Gets the cats water bowl and dumps it out on the floor and tries to refill it. Takes his diaper off and pees on the floor (he knows to sit on the toilet, even though he's not potty trained). I have to hide things from him, but he can scale up the kitchen cabinets without assistance. He does these kind of things continuously. Unrolls toilet paper, pours milk all over. Etc etc.

This part sounds just like my 2.5 year old dd, and just like my son at 2. I have friends with typically developing children who can share similar stories. However, the rest of your post doesn't sound like other 2-4 year olds I know.

 

You say he is receiving early intervention. Have they ever done an OT evaluation or a sensory profile? If not I would ask for one. I would start with the pediatrician and ask for a referral to someone that can do a complete developmental profile. I would want to rule out any medical issues that could be causing some of this.

 

Is the preschool a specially designed one for children with developmental delays? If not, I would look for one. Friends of ours have a 2yo son with apraxia. Once they received the official diagnosis the developmental preschool began doing speech therapy with him 4 days a week instead of only 2 days a week-which has lead to faster improvement. They also assessed him to see if he had other needs.

 

The tantrums you describe are also common in children on the autism spectrum and in children who have sensory integration disorders both of which are neurologically based. My son is highly intolerant of dairy products and will still be very emotional if he is eating them too heavily so diet can be an important component.

 

:grouphug:

[tenoraddict]

I have 3 sons, and have not experienced anything to the extent that you are experiencing it, so I don't think it's typical boy behavior. Some of it, certainly, and some because of his age. But it sure sounds like this little guy and his family need some help. I completely agree with all of the specialists recommended by others: pediatric neurologist, allergist, pediatric psychologist/psychiatrist, maybe even a nutritionist. It will be difficult to get to them given your location, but so worth it to know what you're dealing with. Has the pediatrician tested his hearing?

 

Physically contain him as much as possible. Protect your relationship with your daughter by doing things just with her when you can. She's old enough to understand that you don't condone his behavior and are going to get to the bottom of it. It might make her sympathetic to his situation. Is there any way you can get a break, even just for a couple hours? Do you have a really good friend who is sympathetic to your situation who could play with him long enough for you to have a date with your daughter or husband? Or even go for a walk around the block by yourself?

 

In the meantime, it might help to think of him as having something "wrong." Oh, this probably won't come out right... Here's what I mean: we suspect that our ds7 has ADHD and are in the process of treating the symptoms and getting a diagnosis. Once I realized that there was probably something "wrong" with him neurologically and he wasn't just being willfully naughty and hyper, my heart softened toward him. I still get frustrated and angry at some of his 7yo boy behavior, but a lot of it is out of his control. It doesn't excuse bad behavior and he still gets consequences when he loses control, but they're different consequences than before. My heart and attitude toward him have changed and he gets more grace and compassion than he does when he's just being willful. Make sense?

 

:grouphug:

[fiddledeedee]

We took him in at the beginning of the year to see if he needed tubes again, which he didn't. They tested his hearing and it was fine. This was an ENT specialist.

 

As far as a baby gate, he's 42" tall, and would have no trouble scaling any baby gate I've seen. I've thought of this too! I wish I could lock him out of part of the house.

 

Fish oil. I have him on Nordic Naturals because of his apraxia, but I've been terrible about getting them in him every single day. I'll be more diligent about this.

 

The temper tantrums aren't long, I know some kids will throw them for hours, my son throws them frequently, but they are short duration.

 

We drink raw milk, and have for over a year now. When we started he had some eczema, but after starting the raw milk it went away. He had no eczema until recently he had a small flare up on his leg, a little lotion and it went away, and he's had no other trouble with it. I tried a GFCF dairy free diet with him once, but we didn't last long enough. Only a week :blush: My hat is off to those who have to deal with allergies. I had the hardest time finding things he'd eat. I know a week is not long enough at all, but I saw no change in behavior during that time. He is kind of a picky eater, but not too bad, I don't really have trouble finding things to feed him. We don't eat a lot of processed food, I bake and cook most things from scratch. I have started to try and eliminate food colorings. He loves M&M's, I might get those sundrops from the health food store for him. Haven't seen any improvement from no dyes.

 

As far as sleeping goes, he takes occasional naps, but not daily anymore. He sleeps about 9-10 hours at night, sometimes a little more, but if he only sleeps 8-9 hours, I try to get him to nap during the day. My daughter slept 12 hours a night, and took naps until about age 4. But even after no naps she still slept 12 hours. So he definitely sleeps less, but if he was tired, wouldn't he sleep more? He sleeps well in the car, because he's restrained I think. I've held him down screaming to take naps before, because I knew he was so tired. He will go and go and go until he literally drops to the ground and falls asleep. He falls asleep at the dinner table too, which I think is because he is holding still long enough to be drowsy.

 

Thank for your thoughts. I feel like I'm so deep in this I can't see the answers that are probably obvious to everyone else. These responses are helping my tired brain to think!

[fiddledeedee]

I forgot to respond about the preschool. It's just twice a week, the regular school speech therapist spends a small amount of time with him. He gets no other therapies at preschool. They tested him for about 2 hours prior to entering school, and he didn't qualify for OT, but I don't recall them doing anything that tested fine motor skills. I don't know that I've seen any improvement specifically from the preschool, but it's nice to have the respite, and I think it's good for him to be around other kids, something he doesn't get a lot of. But I don't think it's very therapeutic. I wish he could have more time with a ST.

[Pippen]

I really feel for you because I've BTDT on most of what you are describing. Tubes at 4 1/2 months, not sleeping, tantrums, not responding to discipline, getting into everything. I seriously had to watch him every minute or he'd do things like brush his teeth in the toilet or put hot pepper into a glass of water and feed it to baby sister. Finally I just got to the point where I recognized that this is how life was going to be for awhile and once I'd adjusted to that mindset things got easier. I didn't get much of anything done except supervision until my husband got home and I used a lot of paper plates back in those days.

 

If most of his evaluations have been done through school I'd suggest getting private evaluations done. A developmental pediatrician helped give us an overall diagnosis but if one isn't available in your area I'd go with a pediatric neuropsychologist. I also wish we'd had a private OT evaluation done right away because the school only used a screening tool and they missed A LOT...as in 6 months after their assessment he was in such serious sensory overload I could hardly cook in the house.

 

Once we had our answers in hindsight I realized that a lot of issues I'd attributed to other things all fell under the umbrella of his diagnosis.

 

I got a lot of help from the book "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It helps develop a new parenting style for dealing with kids who don't respond to traditional parenting. There's a thread for helping to adapt it to young children at this site:

http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=864

 

Is he lining up toys or other objects in straight lines or formations?

 

Hang in there, I know how exhausting this is.

[LizzyBee]

Oh my, he sounds so much like my youngest dd. For the first year of her life, we lived in an apartment, and I felt terrible for our neighbors because she screamed all the time. She had to be touching someone to sleep and she had the worst time falling asleep. She would twist and turn and kick all night long. As a toddler, we couldn't leave her out of our sight for a minute.

 

One of my friend's oldest dd was also like that, and she kept telling me to hang in there, because it gets easier around 5 yo. Well, one day when dd was about 5 1/2, I realized she had gotten so much easier. I think part of the improvement was that she gained the ability to reason somewhat. She also wants to be compliant in spite of her difficulty in doing so. She is sweet and loving and gives great hugs.

 

Some of my dd's diagnosis include AD/HD - combined type, sensory processing disorder, auditory processing disorder, disability of reading, and disability of writing and written expression (iow, dyslexia). At age 3, her articulation was below the 1st percentile for girls her age, and no-one could understand her well enough to interpret for her. At age 8, she still struggles with multi-syllabic words and grammar, but we can almost always understand her.

 

She had 3 years of speech therapy, and is now back in ST after a break of almost 2 years. She also has occupational therapy for her SPD, Therapeutic Listening Program, and Interactive Metronome. At home, we did part of LiPS (Lindamood Bell Phonemic Sequencing) to develop phonemic awareness and we're now using Barton Reading, an Orton-Gillingham based reading and spelling program.

 

I wish I had some great ideas for helping you cope, but I don't. We just took one day at a time, and I'm very thankful that she's much easier at 8 than she was from 0-5!

 

:grouphug:

[fiddledeedee]

He doesn't line up toys in straight formations. His favorite toys are things that move, trains, planes, cars, rockets! He must agree with their perpetual motion :001_smile:

 

I didn't mention this in the sleeping part, but my son is the same way, LizzyBee. He sleeps with me and has to be touching me in some way. Much of the time if I try to sneak out, his radar will go off and he wakes up! As a baby, until about 2 years old, I had to go to bed when he did. If not, he would wake up within 15 minutes screaming because I was gone. Those were hard days, I wanted so badly to have some time with my husband.

 

I am glad I asked this board about this. It feels so good to be understood! I wondered if I had the only child that acted like this. It's good to hear your experiences and treatments. THANK YOU!

[Pippen]

For the sleeping with mom issue you might try a weighted blanket or a mummy sleeping bag. We had good luck with those with my tactile seeking child.

 

Here's an artile about approaching a pediatrician about getting an evaluation. This is specific to Autistic Spectrum Disorder but has good overall information for anyone looking to start the evaluation process rolling with a doctor.

http://www.patientcenters.com/autism/news/getting_diag.html

 

You ought to go ahead and try a babysitter. :) Often they'll do a lot better than you'd imagine and it sure would be good for you to get out.

[fiddledeedee]

I spoke with his teacher today, it went well. She's referring him for OT for fine motor skills as well as gross motor skills, so that's awesome. She agreed he needs extra help, so I'm glad he'll get more assistance.

 

She says that he isn't hyper at school, running around, he is quiet and subdued, but has a very small attention span. He used to be quiet and subdued a lot at home too, now he's just naughty! lol He doesn't really play with the other kids, and plays more by himself.

 

She said there are things we could do for ADHD if we want to get him evaluated, so she was a big help.

 

One thing I realize as well, and she mentioned it too, is if he's engaged in doing something, he usually behaves pretty well, but since his attention span is so tiny, it's hard to find things to constantly keep him amused. When he's not amused, he finds his own amusement, which generally does not amuse me. :D

 

Thanks for your encouragement.

[FairProspects]

Can I ask about the lining up toys in straight lines and formations? What does that signify? My ds did that for years. We start therapy this week for SPD.

[Pippen]

Can I ask about the lining up toys in straight lines and formations? What does that signify? My ds did that for years. We start therapy this week for SPD.

 

Frequent lining up of toys or other objects in straight lines or formations by young children can be a red flag for Autistic Spectrum Disorders. Of course kids without issues will sometimes do lining up but if a child has other behaviors suggestive of ASD's it's something to note.

 

Lining up very often is on screening checklists for ASD's.

[tenoraddict]

 

if he was tired, wouldn't he sleep more?

My favorite line from the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child is "Sleep begets sleep." It may not make sense to us laymen, but a more rested child sleeps better. It has to do with brain waves and REM, etc. I've seen this play out again and again with my kids. Did you ever have a situation when your child goes to bed late, only to wake up extra early the next day? If you have time, it's worth reading this book. Because he may have extenuating issues in his little body, you might not be willing to try this, but we've reached a point where we've let each of our kids cry it out (they were much younger than your son, though, so I don't know what it would look like for an older child) and get themselves back to sleep.

[zaichiki]

Frequent lining up of toys or other objects in straight lines or formations by young children can be a red flag for Autistic Spectrum Disorders. Of course kids without issues will sometimes do lining up but if a child has other behaviors suggestive of ASD's it's something to note.

 

Lining up very often is on screening checklists for ASD's.

 

Lining up toy cars, trains, and planes is *very* neurotypical. All of my (NT) children have done this. (Think parking lots, cars lined up on roads, airports, train stations, etc.)

 

Lining up *other* toys in an obsessive way would be different, though.

[Ottakee]

That is GREAT. He might need OT for sensory issues as well.

 

You might try a higher level of Omega 3s. They are very good for neurological issues including sensory stuff and ADHD. We use Country Life Omega 3 Mood but http://www.omegabrite.com is also top quality. You need to aim for 1000mg of EPA (not just 1000mg of fish oil) per day. It might take a couple of weeks of DAILY dosing to see a difference but it might help him out.

 

Meds are not a first option but I will say, meds are a very viable option for some kids. My 12dd missed her meds yesterday morning and we were both beating our heads against the wall trying to get ANYTHING done when I realized what happened. 1/2 hour after her meds, life was good and school work got done.

[Misty]

He doesn't line up toys in straight formations.

 

Just an FYI, not all kids on the autism spectrum will line things up. Especially the higher functioning ones and Asperger's.

[Misty]

Can I ask about the lining up toys in straight lines and formations? What does that signify? My ds did that for years. We start therapy this week for SPD.

 

Your son is starting therapy for SPD and he lined things up for years? Sounds like he may be slightly on the spectrum. SPD is very common with kids on the spectrum. My 3yo son lines toys up constantly. He even lined up his Christmas candy last year before eating it *sigh*. He will probably eventually be diagnosed with Asperger's just like his sisters. He has some other signs, but his speech is excellent so he definitely doesn't have classic autism.

[MistyJ]

I just wanted to offer some condolences. My ds, 13, is bipolar, and there were some years there, about age 7 - 11, when our life was as you describe yours, from the minute he woke up at 5:30 till he dropped to sleep at 8:30 p.m.

 

No one can understand the intensity, fever-pitch stress level and all out misery unless they've been there. And then there are those who look askance, blame your parenting, etc., and all the self doubt.

 

There came a time when I thought ds would have to go into foster care, because we couldn't handle him anymore. And there was a time when I feared maybe he didn't have a conscience.

 

We're through it now, he's a generally happy, 13-year-old, and his bipolar was a great blessing: it forced us to homeschool, and homeschooling has changed our lives and brought us closer to God and has helped crystallize our values.

 

I'm praying for you (won't forget your name). I can't wait to hear how this turns out.

[FairProspects]

Your son is starting therapy for SPD and he lined things up for years? Sounds like he may be slightly on the spectrum. SPD is very common with kids on the spectrum. My 3yo son lines toys up constantly. He even lined up his Christmas candy last year before eating it *sigh*. He will probably eventually be diagnosed with Asperger's just like his sisters. He has some other signs, but his speech is excellent so he definitely doesn't have classic autism.

 

I actually can't remember the last time he lined things up, but I remember noticing he did it a lot when he was 2. It was just things like cars, trucks and planes though and sometimes blocks when he was building a track with them, so it may or may not mean anything. He has no other spectrum indicators though (DH is a licensed mental health professional so we have been very proactive in looking for signs). He definitely has SPD, which I think can mimic a lot of other diagnoses as well.

[Twinmom]

No one can understand the intensity, fever-pitch stress level and all out misery unless they've been there. And then there are those who look askance, blame your parenting, etc., and all the self doubt.

 

I hate that part. Been getting that a lot, lately! It takes a healthy dose of faith and self esteem to combat that one. It's exhausting and parents of special needs kids shouldn't have to endure it. :glare:

 

OK, off soapbox now! I'm so glad you are getting some help starting the evals. Best of luck!

[Verity]

Hi, I can so relate with your post! It sounds like a combination of all three of my boys, the two older both with multiple problems (ADD/ADHD, Aspergers, opposite ends of the SPD spectrum, ear tubes, the not sleeping, add in asthma) and I also have a son exactly your son's age who has some of the same issues his brothers had.

 

I agree with most of the posts I've read so far (about half) - you need more information and evaluations. You probably need to start with your pediatrician but may be able to get more assistance from your county agency. Unfortunately I've never gotten much help, my oldest (Aspie/SPD) is so high functioning in his intelligence that he hasn't qualifed in the past for assistance, my second son (ADHD/SPD) got early intervention speech therapy for his massive language delays (speech of a 9 month old when he was almost 3 yrs old) and an IEP at school.

 

The things that have helped me the most are reading books, bringing interventions into the house, working on supplements and diet.

For instance, my normally sweet and loving 3 year old turned into a monster who screamed and threw things at us after he drank Hi C red fruit punch the first time at a Burger King. A few weeks later he ate a few pork ribs from a chinese restaurant and went crazy again. No more red food dye for him!! Now at 11 he has occasionally had the red food dye and explains that he feels like he can't control himself, emotionally and physically to some extent. Now he is learning to avoid it himself.

 

Noone can diagnose your son over the internet but there are a lot of red flags from what you posted. Having three boys with a variety of issues I really understand your stress. Start taking whatever steps you can to get him evaluations and diagnosis. Get rid of any food dyes (especially red IMO). Get the fish oil into him (sneak it into apple sauce or yogurt if he is resistant). Work on setting the boundaries and consequences with him. It seems overwhelming at first but a little effort upfront will reap big benefits over time. One of the most important things is that you have to find some way, some how, to get a break and relieve the stress. As a mother dealing with a child with these kinds of issues I felt like something was wrong with me and that I was a failure. Even though logically we know that isn't true, logic doesn't dictate how we feel.

 

For me getting a hot bath and reading a book helps alot. Getting some exercise (leaving son at home with dad) and going for a walk by yourself, or with your daughter, will relieve some stress. In my case I can't find babysitters to deal with my horde but every once in a while I can get a family member to keep the boys (sometimes two family members will split them up between them) so my husband and I can get a dinner out. These things are just as important as getting the evaluations. Remember you have to take care of yourself so that you will *be able* to take care of your family.

 

:grouphug:

 

P.S. I'm a huge proponent of melatonin as well - it changed my oldests life as far as getting sleep goes.

[SkateLeft]

My youngest son is 3 years 9 months old, and exhibits many of the behaviors you describe, including the chronic insomnia. His primary diagnoses are autism spectrum disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, SPD, insomnia, and communication disorder. He attends a special education preschool, and takes anti-anxiety medication (Prozac) and a prescription medication to treat his insomnia.

 

Like your son, ours originally entered Early Intervention for language delays. Eventually he had neuropsych and OT evaluations through our regional center in CA.

 

Last August, he was admitted to the hospital by our neurologist who was concerned that his insomnia was caused by seizures. A 48 hour video EEG revealed nearly constant panic attacks all night long, and an MRI revealed a cyst in his left front temporal lobe, the part of the brain responsible for language, emotion and memory. He's actually missing a significant portion of his brain.

 

I agree that there are a number of red flags in what you wrote, and I'd encourage you to talk to your pediatrician if possible, and rule out medical causes for the insomnia. There are a number of things that can cause frequent waking (including seizures). I'd also see if you can get a referral to a neurologist. Perhaps his behavioral issues are as simple as sleep deprivation.

Edited October 21, 2009 by sailmom
typos drive me nuts!

[LilMama]

Sorry about your troubles! I do have to say that my two boys were disaster makers like your son, and they are my "typical" children. They are not so much anymore given that they are 4.5 and 6.5. But, they still have their moments. They still require near constant supervision. My older one is highly active as well. I have to really work hard at channelling it. But, my boys have pulled out nearly every towel rod and toilet paper holder from the wall in the house. And, several curtain rods have been pulled out. When DS6 was less then two, he started climbing from his crib. So, we moved him to his bed. It was awful. He overcame doorknob covers and tall gates. We eventually stacked gates to keep him in his room. We could not have him roaming the house while we slept! But, until he was three, he tore apart most books. He got a soccer trophy at 4 and deconstructed it. We've also had to lock pantries, the fridge, and every cabinet in the kitchen. We put three locks on our knife drawer. DS4 is active and slightly destructive. But, he is a little more of a pleaser. And, we were prepared by DS6. Also, we can't have lamps in either boys room. Both deconstructed their cute matching lamps that were set up high and supposedly out of their reach.

 

I now have DD2(almost three) who has sensory issues, speech delays (we think she's apraxic), etc. She has a pretty sweet personality. So, in some ways she's been easier. I can take her out in public and she pretty much goes with the flow. She's compliant. But, if DS6's personality was mixed with DD2's developmental issues, I can see there would be trouble.

 

I do agree a talk with your ped is in order. An appropriate referral can be made. I also agree in gating the stairs. I am sure he can climb them. But, that is sure more difficult than climbing an open set of stairs. Plus, it is a good visual reminder for him to not go up.

 

And, I do think some kids need more supervision. He sounds like a sweet little boy who needs some extra love an guidance to help him grow and develop.

 

For his attention issues, have you tried reading short books while asking lots of questions? Then, maybe gradually moving to longer books? I do a lot of reading with my speech delayed DD, and is seems to give us time to practice speech.

 

Also, is your little boy shy? I think sometimes kids with shyness behave better in public. I think they might not be comfortable showing their real selves to others. At least it seems that way with my kids.

 

Hope you gain some understanding! Being a parent is tough!

 

LilMama

[Reya]

What do you do when he pitches fits? When he bites? When he gets into things?

 

It sounds like he's flattening you at the moment. Problem or no problem, without enforceable boundaries, he's not going to learn to control himself.

[Reya]

This part sounds just like my 2.5 year old dd, and just like my son at 2. I have friends with typically developing children who can share similar stories. However, the rest of your post doesn't sound like other 2-4 year olds I know.

 

You say he is receiving early intervention. Have they ever done an OT evaluation or a sensory profile? If not I would ask for one. I would start with the pediatrician and ask for a referral to someone that can do a complete developmental profile. I would want to rule out any medical issues that could be causing some of this.

 

Is the preschool a specially designed one for children with developmental delays? If not, I would look for one. Friends of ours have a 2yo son with apraxia. Once they received the official diagnosis the developmental preschool began doing speech therapy with him 4 days a week instead of only 2 days a week-which has lead to faster improvement. They also assessed him to see if he had other needs.

 

The tantrums you describe are also common in children on the autism spectrum and in children who have sensory integration disorders both of which are neurologically based. My son is highly intolerant of dairy products and will still be very emotional if he is eating them too heavily so diet can be an important component.

 

:grouphug:

 

Eh, my kids are neurotypical, and I had the darnest time breaking DS of his passion for "powdering the dogs." The dogs were black, and before I broke him of it, he'd climbed into the pantry (CLIMBED!!!) and powered them with flour, powdered sugar, corn starch, and baking soda.

 

He also liked to try to empty boxes of cereal onto the carpet.

 

He was a cakewalk compared to my daughter.

 

I'm strict with them because with a personality like that, you must be.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Reya
can't spell

[fiddledeedee]

Yep, one curtain rod down, one that's hanging on for dear life, and our bathroom towel rack is gone too. He ripped the lock off the fridge, and because he can figure out the doorknob locks, we put chains on our front and back doors because he runs away. The child locks are a joke, he is strong and just pulls them off. His favorite thing is to pour, so he'll get into mixing bowls and cereal, then pour milk over them. After dinner I have to make sure I gather all salt shakers and put them up, make sure the water pitcher is put up.

 

As far as what I do when he throws a fit, he throws himself on the ground, I usually just walk away from him. He's 42 inches and over 40 lbs now, when he's flailing he can land some decent kicks and punches, so I don't touch him! My DH is a big guy, and my son is built like him, he's a solid kid.

 

I think I will likely wait until the beginning of the year for an evaluation, because I have a deductible, and I might as well get the most of it for the calendar year.

 

I have been consistent every time with time out for his hitting and biting, and already I'm seeing an improvement, so that's good. With my daughter we only had to tell her not to do something, and she obeyed. Not so with my son!

 

As far as supervision, I do what I can. My DH works a lot, and there's me and one other child at home, and a 2 story house. I can't watch him every minute of the day, and he's fast. As soon as you turn your back, he'll get into something. But that's not really my problem, I know he'll outgrow that, it's more his behavior issues.

[jensway]

I could have written your post 7 yrs. ago. Many of the things you mention BTDT with my son. I would recommend getting an evaluation either from a neuro doc. or the school for PDD(pervasive developmental disorder) and SID(sensory integration disorder). Hang in there.:grouphug:

[Ottakee]

I think I will likely wait until the beginning of the year for an evaluation, because I have a deductible, and I might as well get the most of it for the calendar year.

 

.

 

I would suggest though that you start making the APPOINTMENTS now as some specialists have waiting lists of 3-6 months. That way you can get started right after the first of the year.

[Dobela]

I would suggest though that you start making the APPOINTMENTS now as some specialists have waiting lists of 3-6 months. That way you can get started right after the first of the year.

I absolutely agree. :iagree::iagree: For one of the specialists that my dd sees we are always told to call 3-4 months in advance to reschedule - and we are a regular patient. It took 6 months for her first appt to be scheduled.

[Reya]

Walking away from some kids doesn't work. Some will follow you. Others just crank up the fit so they know you can hear it.

 

AT HOME: If he pitches a fit, he should be locked in his room. The room can't have toys in it. He shoulld stay in his room for the duration of the fit plus five minutes.

 

IN PUBLIC: He should immediately be removed from public, taken home, and locked in his room. Taking him out to the car for a spanking and THEN going home works better, but it seems you aren't a spanker.

 

Whiny-ness also should result in being banished to his room, and if you tell him not to enter a certain place and he goes in anyway (he's WAY too old to have to use a baby gate unless he's severely DD), he should have to go to his room, too.

 

Hitting/biting/kicking during a fit would result in a tanned hide, around here. He's only try it twice.

 

Make sure he's getting a lot of positive attention the rest of the time. If he bites, kicks, etc., that should not get him attention but shunning and being ignored. I know a completely "normal" kid who bit and kicked adults up to the age of FIVE(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) because it got him guaranteed attention every time and the consequences are small.

 

I am a spanker, personally. With some kids, spanking is WAY over the top and completely unneeded. With others, it is an extremely useful tool.

 

In my family, we have some autism, but other kids are just very, very hard-headed. (I was one of them!)

[fiddledeedee]

That's good to know about the appointments taking so long to get in. I hadn't thought of that.

 

I can't agree with locking my child up for poor behavior. He's terrified of being shut up in a room. Even with no lock, just the door being shut causes him fear. We put his crib away as a baby because he would scream and shake when he was put in it. We tried letting him cry it out, and he could cry for hours. He's pretty much slept with me his whole life. We tried the crib several times and he was fearful of being shut away in the crib. So that wouldn't really work for us.

 

Spanking was tried with no results. If anything, he hit more. It seemed hypocritical to us to hit him, and then tell him not to hit. :confused:

 

His preschool teacher says he functions on about a 2 1/2 year old level, which I agree with, I've thought the same thing. I think some of his behaviors could be better controlled, but I don't feel that being punitive to a child that has problems is our best course.

 

We our however upping our consistency, which I can see has been a problem, especially at night when we're worn out! We've been seeing an improvement already with now giving him the choice of the corner or obeying, as well as being in the corner for hitting. He hasn't bitten for the last few days, so that's pretty good! Consistent discipline should have been a no brainer, but I guess I've been so tired with just keeping up, that I haven't even realized how much we were slacking in that department.

 

This has been such a helpful thread for me. I'm grateful for all the advice offered.

[Misty]

Harsh punishments will not cure a neurological issue, nor will it improve anything. Children like this do not respond to punitive methods. Most of the time it only escalates the behavior, the anxiety, and the situation. Kindness and respect goes a long way. Do you ever see the Duggars locking their children in a room? They don't have to because they are kind and respectful to their children, and in return they receive respect.

 

I imagine that the mother who started this thread knows how to discipline her children. She was not asking for discipline advice. There are ways to discipline your children that do not include spanking or locking children up and *most* people these days are aware of these methods. Children who are on the autism spectrum have a very hard time learning from their mistakes and experiences. Anyone who believes in spanking a child on the autism spectrum would have one tired hand because they would be spanking all day long! And I do believe that this mother has a child with PDD-NOS or possibly Asperger's (or at least SPD and ADHD, if nothing else). I'm not saying DON'T discipline a child on the autism spectrum, I'm just saying there are better ways that would not bring on a constant shower of negativity. I've got a whole slew of book recommendations for anyone interested.

[Ritsumei]

I used to work professionally with kids with many of the disorders described here: ADHD, Aspbergers, OCD, sensory issues... I don't remember all the diagnosises. I was a "youth councilor" and then a supervisor, basically means I was the tech, the one dealing with the behaviors and meeting out rewards and consequences that someone higher up the food chain had decided on. It was easily the best, most rewarding job I ever had! And also easily the most difficult.

 

As I read the original post I was definitely reminded of some of our kids, particularly the ones on the Autism spectrum. We used a book called "Transforming the Difficult Child: The Nurtured Heart Approach." It was AMAZING. The book's got a website: difficultchild.com, with an excerpt. We had a unit of little boys, many with quite severe ADHD, whoindividulaly and collectively made some tremendous improvements in behavior using the ideas, philosophy, and techniques in that book. I was amazed at how well it worked! Consistency is key. Other than adding my personal favorite parenting book (because it works beautifully with "typical" children as well), I don't have a lot to add. I'd agree, get your referrals and appointments ASAP cuz there's definitely a wait for those specialists! My folks did respite care through the foster care system for a while, and that was a cool experience for our family.

 

Good luck. Hang in there. Don't take people's nasty comments to heart, if you can help it. Some people just don't get it.

[Dobela]

re: sleeping with you and bedtimes

We never thought we would co-sleep with our kids but it has been very important to both and ended up happening in part because of the sensory/medical/learning/anxiety issues each has had. When it came time to wean our son out of our bed (due to his long arms LOL) we began by placing a twin bed to one side of our bed. That is where we began training him to sleep. After a time we gradually began separating the beds until there was a gap between them. That made a huge difference for us. One, if I needed to leave the bed, I could do so without disturbing him. He would usually stay asleep then because the rest of the environment was the same.

 

I learned this trick from a friend who has 2 special needs kids - except she at one time had wall to wall beds in her room so they had enough space to sleep comfortably with her kids in there as well.