kimberannie Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 the public system and they do not diagram. Is diagramming done in most schools? I remember doing a bit in school years ago. Thanks for the help cause my son is terrible at punctuation and reading and writing so I thought using Rod and Staff might help him. Thanks for your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 the public system and they do not diagram. Is diagramming done in most schools? I remember doing a bit in school years ago. Thanks for the help cause my son is terrible at punctuation and reading and writing so I thought using Rod and Staff might help him. Thanks for your opinions. It helps me see the relationships more clearly, and also thing through things. Sometimes you will parse incorrectly and not see it till you go to diagram and it doesn't make sense. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolally Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) but gave in when I learned my kids would have to diagram in Latin if we stayed in the Classical Conversations Challenge program. According the the teachers I've asked, it is no longer done in most public schools--it wasn't taught in the '80's when I was in school either. I have noticed private Christian schools tend to do diagramming in our area. The good news is---my son actually LIKES it, and I've watched the 'grammar' of grammar really sink in for the first time. It took him to whole new level of understanding. We eased into it by going the Shurley method of just labeling the POS on top of each word in the sentence, and after that diagramming seemed to come easily to him. It has been well worth the time invested. Hope this helps! Edited October 4, 2009 by homeschoolally accidently posted before finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 While my son was at soccer camp this summer, I was talking to another mom. She is working on her master's in speech pathology. She had to repeat some classes because they did not cross over in her transfer of credits. She was telling me that when she was tested on diagramming, she would get a perfect score because she took it at her previous college. I stopped and asked her about diagramming (she did not know I was a homeschooler). She explained that diagramming is used in speech therapy for speech and syntax. I feel that diagramming helps you to better understand the structure of a sentence. So, I know in the school system, where I live, some moms on my son's soccer team have said that the children are learning diagramming and it is making a come back. Blessings, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 We had diagramming my public school (in the 90s). I thought it was boring because obviously we should already know what is the noun in 6th grade without all the lines, but it makes sense for speech therapy where grammar is more of a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in the Country Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? Rod and Staff English Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 the public system and they do not diagram. That should tell you a lot. ;) I have talked about diagramming with many, many people (I recommend R&S English IRL to many people,) and I have found a correlation, with few exceptions, between a homeschool mother's understanding of the English language (and ability to teach it effectively) and whether or not she was taught diagramming in school. I scored a perfect score twice on my ACT in English (I was trying to increase my science score the second time,) and I credit my mean old seventh grade teacher Mrs. Berg, who made us diagram and memorize until we loathed her. Now I would thank her so much. Diagramming shows us that the English language is not some nebulous mystery, but has a definite pattern that can be understood and commanded. It is especially effective for children who are not naturally skilled in language and have not internalized those patterns themselves. Using Rod & Staff will definitely help your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 We used ABeka for English and Composition in middle school, and diagramming was part of the curriculum. Now that my dd is back in public school, she has yet to come up against a class as rigorous as what she had at home. We didn't spend tons of time on it, but it definitely helps to teach sentence construction and organization of thoughts and language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? I use First Language Lessons in 2nd and 3rd (yep a year behind), and then do Junior Analytical Grammar in 4th and start Analytical Grammar around 5th (I start it with CW Homer A, so it depends on where we are with that). That is a little young for AG, but we do it at half pace. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verity Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? FLL!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2denj Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Rod & Staff English - LOTS of diagramming!!:) Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) . Edited May 18 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? Christian Light Education and Abeka both have diagramming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Using Rod & Staff will definitely help your son. Which books have diagramming? I'd like to get a couple and brush up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vkay Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? GWG (Growing with Grammar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think diagramming helps the children see the relationship of the word to the sentence. It helps bring it all together. It is actually fun too! We do HAKE grammar and CW and the girls enjoy the 'puzzle' of the diagramming. That the public school doesn't do it is, for me, probably more reason that we'll continue doing it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 We had diagramming my public school (in the 90s). I thought it was boring because obviously we should already know what is the noun in 6th grade without all the lines, but it makes sense for speech therapy where grammar is more of a problem. Lest anyone see this and be misinformed, diagramming is not about learning the parts of speech. Other posts in this thread describe the purpose of diagramming. Diagramming has helped me learn a great deal more about grammar than I've ever known. Then again, I was educated in the public school system which did not provide an intelligent education. The author of WTM, owner of this board, explains diagramming very well in her book. As a college professor who teaches english and sees too many students lack grammar and writing knowledge, I trust her opinion. The funny part of this is that we're an unschooling family. Diagramming is working a cool puzzle. My kids love it. I have a small text called Grammar Step by Step. We like it because it's not a drill and kill method of learning grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 It really helped my visual learner finally grasp grammar. I really like what SWB said about diagramming being used while writing to determine if a sentence has proper structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Which books have diagramming? I'd like to get a couple and brush up. They start diagramming in 3rd grade. As an adult, if you have a fair grasp of grammar, I think you could start with 7, which gets into most of the sentence patterns pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverly L. Adams-Gordon Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Many programs are actually teaching diagramming from the opposite direction. I mean they are teaching the student to compose sentences by giving them a sentence patterns to use to build their sentence. I like this approach a lot with younger students. It really seems to grow into more advanced sentence patterns easily and expands well into traditional diagramming. I think the traditional sentence diagramming is pretty much reserved for advanced placement classes in public schools. What a shame, these are the students that need it the least because they probably come to proper syntax naturally (from home environment that uses proper syntax.) I really loved diagramming, I took to it like a duck does to water! BTW, In the 70s it wasn't introduced until 9th grade. It was like figuring out puzzles to me -- I only wish I had known how to really use it before graduate school. I think "kiddos" need to be shown how to use it to improve their language. Just because they can solve the puzzle, doesn't mean they know what to do with the answer! Edited October 5, 2009 by Beverly L. Adams-Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 They start diagramming in 3rd grade. 10-Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Many programs are actually teaching diagramming from the opposite direction. I mean they are teaching the student to compose sentences by giving them a sentence patterns to use to build their sentence. Beverly, welcome to the boards! Shurley does this, having them form sentences from a list of parts (art, adj, noun, helping verb, etc.). It's a very good exercise. However it's no replacement for diagramming because it doesn't help kids understand the relationships, what is modifying what. That's the next level of thought, and we always take it there with our discussions in Shurley. Also, I add diagramming to Shurley. Kalanamak-The Mary Daly Complete Book of Diagramming is what I use as a reference. I would suppose the R&S handbook has diagramming in it, don't know. As to what curricula have diagramming, well basically anything not meant for the public schools, seems like, lol. Shurley doesn't, but it's easy peasy to add on. We just do one of the sentences from the section on a whiteboard. Easy, but highly effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk17 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 That should tell you a lot. ;) I have talked about diagramming with many, many people (I recommend R&S English IRL to many people,) and I have found a correlation, with few exceptions, between a homeschool mother's understanding of the English language (and ability to teach it effectively) and whether or not she was taught diagramming in school. I scored a perfect score twice on my ACT in English (I was trying to increase my science score the second time,) and I credit my mean old seventh grade teacher Mrs. Berg, who made us diagram and memorize until we loathed her. Now I would thank her so much. Diagramming shows us that the English language is not some nebulous mystery, but has a definite pattern that can be understood and commanded. It is especially effective for children who are not naturally skilled in language and have not internalized those patterns themselves. Using Rod & Staff will definitely help your son. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekarl2 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Diagraming is also a teaching tool. That's why it was invented. I find it next to impossible to get a student to MASTER the advanced stuff (phrases and clauses) without drawing a picture of all the relationships. That's all a diagram is. If you want to understand that a gerund phrase is acting as the subject of a noun clause that is the direct object of the main sentence (wordy isn't it?), a picture is worth WAY more than a 1,000 words! I always tell people that diagraming is not the goal, it's the means to the end (the end being a mastery-level understanding of English grammar and mechanics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? FLL 3 is great for starters Rod and Staff is excellent! Growing with Grammar has diagramming also. If you want a program that is solely diagramming then The First Whole Book of Diagrams by Mary Daly and Workbook of Sentence Diagramming by Eugene Moutoux. Blessings, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hscherger Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Diagramming shows us that the English language is not some nebulous mystery, but has a definite pattern that can be understood and commanded. It is especially effective for children who are not naturally skilled in language and have not internalized those patterns themselves. Using Rod & Staff will definitely help your son. :iagree: Rod & Staff will do the trick. My daughter actually finds diagramming fun...like a puzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 :iagree: Rod & Staff will do the trick. My daughter actually finds diagramming fun...like a puzzle. :iagree: My dd looks forward to it every day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Not to hijack, but I'm wondering.... if you do diagramming, what curriculum do you use? Junior Analytical Grammar. This is working wonderfully for us this year. And ds actually enjoys the diagramming part. The other day, just for fun, he diagrammed the sentences in the workbook, diagrammed the instructions, and diagrammed a note I had written by hand on top. :tongue_smilie: This from a guy who does NOT volunteer to do one extra thing other than what he absolutely has to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I have found a correlation, with few exceptions, between a homeschool mother's understanding of the English language (and ability to teach it effectively) and whether or not she was taught diagramming in school. I scored a perfect score twice on my ACT in English Okay, since one person said they agree with this, I have to pipe in to say I disagree. Well, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "understanding of the English language." If you mean "knowing the names of the parts of speech and how to diagram," then maybe I don't disagree. But if you mean "knowing how to communicate accurately and effectively," then that's where I'm going to chime in on the other side. I don't remember what my ACT scores were (it probably wasn't even called the ACT or SAT back in the olden days when I graduated), but I graduated from college with honors (magna) and I didn't know what a preposition was, let alone a diagram. My oldest son graduated summa and even worked on the college newspaper a bit, and had almost no formal grammar in his (public) schooling. After homeschooling for over 7 years, I now know all the parts of speech. I'm using MCT with my youngest this year & will be exposed to diagramming along with him, so maybe there's hope for me yet. The best grammarian in my family, my dd, is not a great writer & has never scored well on writing. But she is excellent at grammar. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of grammar knowledge needed for those college tests. There are the "what part of this sentence is incorrect" type of questions, but you don't have to know what a preposition is or how to diagram in order to answer correctly. Knowing her grammar didn't help her achieve college-level writing skills, either, although I'm not saying there's a cause-effect relationship there. So... I just don't want folks to panic if their child is writing well but doesn't know how to diagram. Nothing wrong with diagramming, and it probably helps some folks, but it doesn't necessarily mean failure if you've skipped it, IMHO. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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