First Language Lessons Level 1

[Classically Minded]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. My daughter is 5 (will be 6 next month) and we started her in 1st grade this year. She is more on the Kindergarten side of reading - she knows her letters, sounds but isn't reading yet (except 1 BOB book). I'm doing the Ordinary Parent's Guide to Reading and that is going well.

 

We are also doing First Language Lessons Level 1 (First Grade) for Grammar. I'm wondering - is she supposed to "grasp" the material? I read over and over again in lesson 1 what a noun is and explained in detail. However, she still doesn't 'get it'. :001_unsure: She was really perplexed and after about 10 minutes, I gave up and went on to writing. She knows what a person, place, thing or idea is but she doesn't understand the name of them is a noun. She kept giving that 'huh?' look. :confused:

 

Being our first day, I'm not sure if she is supposed to understand what a noun is, tell me what it is and so forth. Is she just 'absorbing' the material?

 

Any help or advice is appreciated!

[TheCoffeeChick]

I think that 5 or 6 is really young to expect much grammar to stick. This is probably why 60 out of the 100 lessons of the year are about nouns!! ;) But I am quite sure that if you think the lessons are more of a frustration than a help, that no 5 or 6 year old was ever hurt by not learning grammar rules! LOL :D

 

Put it off for a month or 2 or 6 -- or wait till next year. It really is amazing at what your child can pick up after not looking at the material for a while.

 

We do FLL also, but I don't treat it like one of our basic subjects -- meaning that there are other subjects (like phonics, reading, and math) that I want to make sure we are getting done and mastering first. Grammar is nice -- but not one of the 3 R's.

 

BTW, welcome to the boards.

[yslek]

D will also be 6 next month. Here, she would be considered Kindergarten age, so we're calling this year K. She's slowly learning to read (using 100 EZ lessons at the moment) and write her letters. (We are also doing read alouds and will be starting math next week.) I think I remember SWB recommending that FLL not be started until a certain point in OPGTR...don't remember where, but a good ways through. I plan on starting D in FLL next school year. So, I would probably drop it and start it next year, or maybe try again in January. :)

[Classically Minded]

I've done a few years already of homeschooling (preschool & K) before I found "The Well Trained Mind" this Summer. I was originally going to send her to public school for K but found out she was too advanced and they do not move up grades here. She is advanced at Math and we are finding Saxon 1 too easy and may jump a few lessons.

 

With reading, all we concentrated on (per the curriculum we had for K) was knowing the letters, the sounds and writing. She is advanced in writing. Since reading is introduced in 1st grade here, I didn't teach it until the past few months. With the WTM, I see that it should start in K, so we went ahead and started the OPG. However, she does get upset and says Mommy, I already know that! Going through the first 26 lessons are easy but review for her and not challenging. She read a BOB book on her own so we bought more of those.

 

So considering I've already done K, I consider her 1st grade, so I started the WTM suggestions for 1st grade with the Grammar being one of them. Maybe that helps explain things a bit more about where she is at. I don't want to skip the Grammar and I don't want to be a year behind when in other subjects we move on to 2nd grade next year.

 

Thank you for the replies! :D

[siloam]

Honestly I don't start FLL 1 until 2nd grade so I don't have those types of problems.

 

You can just move on, they don't have to get it. You will have a TON of repeat in the book. The biggest point is to memorize the grammar definitions and the child's address/phone number, days of the weeks and months. They don't have to understand it right now.

 

Heather

[kokotg]

I'd put it aside for now and focus on her reading for awhile, and then come back to it and try again when her reading takes off. I personally don't worry if "grade levels" don't match up in different subjects (my oldest is doing FLL 4 but still finishing up Writing with Ease 2), but if you want to stay on track, you can easily do FLL 1 in under a year. It takes a school year or so to finish if you do 3 lessons a week, so you could just do it 5 days a week if you wanted to go through it faster.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I hope you'll take this the way it's meant, not meanly, I promise. But why are you calling a 5yo who is not ready for 1st grade a 1st grader? In almost every school district in the country, she'd be in Kindy and her skills are that of a kindergartener.

 

As for FLL? Yes, my first grader (first grade age and level) is grasping the grammar.

 

That year will make a big difference. Don't push. She'll be more confident as she learns at her level and her pace rather than not being able to learn what you're pushing.

 

Okay, so I scrolled up and saw your reasoning. I still stand by the above. She's Kindergarten age and Kindergarten level. There is no rush.

[Crimson Wife]

I personally wouldn't start FLL until the student is reading. If you really want to do some grammar, try reading aloud picture books about the parts of speech like those by Ruth Heller and Brian Cleary.

[tuckabella]

She is advanced at Math and we are finding Saxon 1 too easy and may jump a few lessons.

 

 

 

FYI: Saxon typically runs a year behind, Saxon 1 = K, Saxon 2 = grade 1

[dcjlkplus3]

:iagree:

with the answers you have gotten ( I would count even a late Sept. 6 year old as a kindergartener.)

Also, I read somewhere (don't remember if it was online or in FLL or OPGTR) that you aren't ready to add grammar until you are close to either lesson 50 (or maybe even 100) in OPGTR.

I have a 6 year old - 1st grader, her reading is a little behind (lesson 50 of OPGTR), but she was easily getting FLL lesson 1 today.

[abbeyej]

If she doesn't understand the material, she's not ready for it. Yes, she should "grasp it". I might give it another couple of days, but if the concept is just beyond her, set the book aside for 6-12 months, then try again.

 

As others have pointed out, a child turning 6 in October would be considered a kindergartner in most states, and even in states with very late cut-offs, a child who is only borderline for readiness would be encouraged to do another year of kindergarten.

[NicA]

I'm not exactly sure where I read this, but I wrote it down when I saw it. It is not recommended to start FLL until you are at least to lesson 140 in OPG. I also had that spelling and writing should start around lesson 115. Hope that helps!

[Classically Minded]

I should have re-read the intro to the FLL before posting the question. I went and re-read it and saw it stressed "exposure" NOT mastery is what we are to concentrate on. That is what I was looking for and then I browsed ahead in future lessons and saw the definition of a noun goes all the way up to the 30th lesson or so, so there is no need that she was supposed to grasp it the first day.

 

What I read from the author of this forum, is that she says and I quote "when we teach to the average, we train our children to be ...average! Instead, we can grow children who exceed the average by exposing them to above-average content." I follow this same path and my daughter loves school.

 

She is not having trouble in any other subject and I only wanted to know about Grammar and Jessie Wise answered that in the Introduction. Thank you for the replies and the welcome.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Nevermind....

Edited September 14, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[NicA]

What I read from the author of this forum, is that she says and I quote "when we teach to the average, we train our children to be ...average! Instead, we can grow children who exceed the average by exposing them to above-average content." I follow this same path and my daughter loves school.

 

 

:iagree:

 

My bf is doing FLL with her daughter who is 5, but also doing 1st grade work. I also plan to do this with my dd. The reason I am homeschooling is so my children won't get just an average education. Good luck and welcome! :001_smile:

[Pamela H in Texas]

nevermind.....

Edited September 14, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Classically Minded]

If it would make others feel better, by all means call her a Kindergartner. ;) To tell me I'm pushy, is just taking it a bit too far. I am not pushing my child, she wants to learn more. I ask that you respect my decision with my daughter and let this be a supportive place.

[Classically Minded]

:iagree:

 

My bf is doing FLL with her daughter who is 5, but also doing 1st grade work. I also plan to do this with my dd. The reason I am homeschooling is so my children won't get just an average education. Good luck and welcome! :001_smile:

 

Thank you! I think you are FIRST person to welcome me lol. :D

[abbeyej]

Yes, FLL gives plenty of time to memorize the definition of a noun. Lots and lots and lots of practice.

 

*But* your concern was not about her ability to memorize -- it sounds like she can do that -- but about her ability to grasp what a noun *is*. Mistakes and confusion along the way are certainly normal and expected, but in order to "do" FLL, she must have the ability to grasp the concepts being taught. Shortly after learning what a noun is, she will be expected to learn the difference between "common" and "proper" nouns, an even more challenging concept. The level of difficulty will increase from there.

 

I certainly applaud your desire to challenge your daughter and have high expectations. But if she isn't developmentally ready for this *particular* material (and there's a great deal of other material out there that she can master at her developmental stage and that will benefit her future study as well), then it won't do either of you much good to work on *this* rather than those other things...

 

I would give FLL a few more days. If she's not retaining the concept (as well as memorizing the words of the definition), then I stand by my original recommendation to set it aside for a period of time.

[Tabrett]

My dd is the same age as your dc. I also call her 1st grade. She is farther along in reading than your dc, but I don't think that would matter. I think your dc might start to understand what a noun is once she gets to the exercises that have your dc understand the difference between a common and proper noun. Ex: Mother made cake. We don't know who's mother: common noun. Classically Minded made cake. Now your dc knows it was you, her mother, who

made the cake: proper noun.

That example made sense to my dc.

 

Your doing great! Don't get discouraged.

[rockermom]

If it would make others feel better, by all means call her a Kindergartner. ;) To tell me I'm pushy, is just taking it a bit too far. I am not pushing my child, she wants to learn more. I ask that you respect my decision with my daughter and let this be a supportive place.

 

What a welcome you've received. You've been insulted and put on the defensive. I'm ashamed and would like to apologize on behalf of the members here who wouldn't have appreciated such a reception (if they don't want me speaking for them, then on behalf of myself).

[Lovedtodeath]

I only read a couple of replies. Welcome to the boards! I am always surprised to see someone already using TWTM without the boards. Listen very carefully: If following the book works for you, stick to it and ignore what everyone else is doing! ;)

 

There is a ton of repetition in FLL because it is made for young children. I think it is perfect for Kindergarten. My DD didn't get it at first either, but after a few lessons it sinks in. I think that is what the repetition is for. Do you have the audio? It is really great to have.

 

We dropped it because I am very unhealthy right now, so I stick only to essential basics, and I didn't see that it was needed. She ended up not liking the repetition, so we are waiting a while before we start a grammar program again. I will probably use it with DS, and I will probably start it in K. ;)

[Doodle]

...

Edited September 17, 2009 by Doodle
...

[Lovedtodeath]

If it would make others feel better, by all means call her a Kindergartner. ;) To tell me I'm pushy, is just taking it a bit too far. I am not pushing my child, she wants to learn more. I ask that you respect my decision with my daughter and let this be a supportive place.

Now that I have read the other responses...

 

My DD started homeschool at 3 years old. She started reading. She could add and subtract. We read a ton of books. She was basically done with K by the time she turned 4. Between 5 and 7 she slowed way down and stopped learning. She stopped enjoying it. She still like to be read to (picture books), and she still liked to write things on her own, but school was so frustrating.

 

Now at 7 years old we are in a good groove for a second grade TWTM style. In most things, she isn't advanced, but right on target for her grade level. I just wanted to share my experience so that you have something to watch out for. :) But, if your DD is enjoying it now, then by all means sieze the day! :thumbup:

[silvermine]

I think you've seen by now there is a *lot* of repetition. Try it a little more and see if she likes it or not. Once you start looking at each type of noun and give examples, it might make more sense.

 

If she doesn't get it, and really doesn't like it, try it again in a few months.

 

We started grammar before my son could read or write very well -- he can understand *very* well, and his reading and writing are totally different activities. It all started with MadLibs. ;) I'd say we started FLL when he was about 6 or so (he's 6.5 now). Of course, I sometimes skip some, or change things a little, and rarely read the script all the way through.

[Pamela H in Texas]

If she doesn't want to take the advise that is her prerogative but I don't think it is insulting to tell her to relax, we do that regularly here. I remember being told that, um, too many years ago.

 

This is where I was coming from also.

 

I also was coming from the point of a mom trying to call my kids a grade level (we didn't use them generally, but in my head) that was different from their ages. An 11 yr old is not a 3rd grader and a 7 yr old is not a high schooler. My situations were much more extreme, but many here have expressed issues with even just a one grade difference. A LOT of us have had the situation of having to re-adjust down the line. It'd just be easier if we went with their age-based grade level from the get-go but give the kids work at the level they needed. Any grade adjusting, imo, should wait til 8th-12th grades as kids will learn in spurts, even out, slow down, finally blossom, speed way up, etc. Kids change SO much.

 

But...I see this every year on these (and other boards). The parents of teens and adults try to tell the parents of littles....one day, those parents of littles will be the parents of teens and adults trying to tell the next group of parents of littles. Except in extreme cases of pushing/holding back, it probably works out okay. We tend to wish we had listened and done differently, but our kids aren't ruined by any stretch.

 

Just a btdt mom....but probably stated myself too strongly trying to make the point. I apologize for that. And Classically, yes, welcome to the group.

[linders]

I didn't start grammar or spelling until they were reading comfortably (Magic Treehouse book level). It is hard to understand the concept of noun when you can just barely read them.

 

Also, FLL1/2 are easily done together in one year if you wait.

[Classically Minded]

probably stated myself too strongly trying to make the point. I apologize for that. And Classically, yes, welcome to the group.

 

I appreciate the apology, thank you for the welcome! :)

[yslek]

I don't think anyone insulted her. :confused: Every month at least there is a post by a new hs mom trying to do too much then mom and kids end up frustrated. We all chime in that she needs to relax and read books and just enjoy her kids. This appeared to be one of those posts. If she doesn't want to take the advise that is her prerogative but I don't think it is insulting to tell her to relax, we do that regularly here. I remember being told that, um, too many years ago. :lol:

 

Thank you. I was certainly not trying to insult anyone...just sharing what I was doing with my similar-aged dd and offering that waiting on FLL is what I would do. I'm sorry that I came across otherwise. :( I guess that's one of the short-comings of online communication; I'd like to think that you'd find me friendly in person. ;)

 

I'm sorry you took my post offensively. I thought you were asking for advise from moms who have done this before you and since I a little further along the road, and have an oldest child who is young for his grade, I was trying to caution you against the mistakes I made. It is so so easy to expect too much from out oldest children. A mom cautioned me when I was at your stage and I didn't listen to her either. Her words do come back to me though (usually when my 7th grader is the most frustrated) and so I try to pass them along when I can.

 

I'm coming from a similar place. My oldest has a Sept. b-day (yesterday, in fact:)) and I considered him K the fall he turned 5. I wasn't pushing him; he learned to read and completed Saxon K that year. I heard all the advice about calling your kids what grade they'd be in PS, but I figured that since he was sooo close to the cutoff and doing well, we were fine. And we were! Where my regrets come in are a few years down the road...around 3rd/4th grade. I've since read that many kids who start out ahead level off around this time, and this was certainly true of B. He just wasn't ready for 4th grade work by the time I was ready to consider him a 4th grader. Well, his reading was way advanced, but that was it. So, we called it 3rd grade again, and I explained to him that this is what grade he would be in in PS, and what he really should be called. It worked out, but I wish I'd listened to the advice of calling your kid whatever grade they'd be age-wise regardless of what kind of work they're doing. :tongue_smilie: (Not everyone's experience will mirror mine, of course...just hop over to the Accelerated Learner board. :D) For me, I'm calling my kids what grade they'd be in PS for now, and will re-evaluate grade level as we approach the high school years.

 

One of the nice things about hsing is that you don't have to work at the same grade-level in every subject. It's not unusual to have a child working years ahead in one subject, be on target in several others, and even behind in some. So, even if your dd is working on all of the WTM 1st-grade recommendations, it's still OK to wait on FLL f it doesn't seem to be clicking. It doesn't even have to put you behind where you want to be. There are only 100 lessons per level, so you could easily begin partway through year 1 (or even start year 1 next year, and do grammar daily to get through years 1 & 2 in one year) and still be finished when you want to be. Just wanted to throw that in there for consideration. If you're happy doing what you're doing, by all means do so! :)

 

Sincerely,

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I was schooled in Australia and I can not for the life of me adjust to the different school year and age/grade here in the States. I was 5 when I started first grade, as was everyone else in my class who hadn't turned 6 before school began in February. I didn't turn six until September. So that made me 4 years and 5 months old at the beginning of what is Kindergarten here and 3 years and 5 months at the start of what is Pre-K here. It gives one an entirely different perspective on these topics.

 

My own son won't be 4 until February but is close to finishing up with Pre-K level work. I only postponed teaching him as long as I did because I was told he wouldn't start Pre-K until September of next year if he was going to do public school but then I realized he already knew most of what children were expected to learn in Pre-K so we've spent the last couple of months reviewing and filling in the gaps. It's been more me trying to catch up to him so I can give him something challenging instead of boring him to death every day rather than me pushing or overloading him. In the last couple of weeks he started writing without me, filling in his name on worksheets. I hadn't even gotten around to teaching him to write his name or formally to write at all, I have merely been exposing him to writing.

 

I share this just to encourage you. I think the passage you quoted from the intro to FLL says enough. Besides that, an American will probably think that a 5yo in 1st grade is either advanced or being pushed too fast while a non-American may very well be wondering why on earth anyone would hold back an average child until they're 6. That being said, it's been pretty common in the past for foreign students entering American universities to be placed up to 2 years ahead of their American peers so make of that what you will.

 

Welcome to the forum, btw :D

[Lovedtodeath]

One problem I have run into with DD is boredom. We started so early, but weren't using a full curriculum. I was afraid she would have gaps now, so we were still stuck in first grade work and now that I ramped her up to second things are going much better. :o

[WiseOwlKnits]

Just wanted to say welcome! I have a (young) 5-year old who is doing 1st grade as well. She isn't having any problems with FLL so I can't be of any help. But you're by far not the only one here who is "pushing" your kid. ;) I'd rather meet DD at her level than listen to her constantly complain that "I'm bored!" or "Teach me something, Mommy!" - both of which happened last year before I gave in and started K with her.

[KrissiK]

I'm doing FLL with my 6 & 5 year old boys. THey're both at the first grade reading level (my 5 year old is doing K math, and his maturity is definitely on the K side of things, but he's doing well reading), but at this age, the only thing I'm really working at toward mastery is reading and math. Everything else is just frosting. Really. I don't know if they grasp the concept of a noun, but we do the lessons as written. They enjoy them. They've memorized the definition of a noun and some day, when they are older, that definition will come in handy, whether they understand it now or not. I think it's important to take advantage of this age from the aspect of memorization, which is that the Grammar Stage is all about. Who cares if they understand it? Memorize it. Then it's there. Forever. And they can take it out again in jr. high and figure out what it means. Now, of course I'm not saying that we shouldn't be teaching kids things they don't understand... but, well, you all know what I mean.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Just wanted to say welcome! I have a (young) 5-year old who is doing 1st grade as well. She isn't having any problems with FLL so I can't be of any help. But you're by far not the only one here who is "pushing" your kid. ;) I'd rather meet DD at her level than listen to her constantly complain that "I'm bored!" or "Teach me something, Mommy!" - both of which happened last year before I gave in and started K with her.

 

I'm thankful to know this too! :D ..and I feel the same way. I've often found myself hesitant to mention at times how old my son is and/or what he's doing in school because I know what some others are likely to presume. With experience and education that's becoming less and less the case though. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm doing FLL with my 6 & 5 year old boys. THey're both at the first grade reading level (my 5 year old is doing K math, and his maturity is definitely on the K side of things, but he's doing well reading), but at this age, the only thing I'm really working at toward mastery is reading and math. Everything else is just frosting. Really. I don't know if they grasp the concept of a noun, but we do the lessons as written. They enjoy them. They've memorized the definition of a noun and some day, when they are older, that definition will come in handy, whether they understand it now or not. I think it's important to take advantage of this age from the aspect of memorization, which is that the Grammar Stage is all about. Who cares if they understand it? Memorize it. Then it's there. Forever. And they can take it out again in jr. high and figure out what it means. Now, of course I'm not saying that we shouldn't be teaching kids things they don't understand... but, well, you all know what I mean.

:iagree:Absolutely! 100% If all are enjoying then go for it.

 

I'm thankful to know this too! :D ..and I feel the same way. I've often found myself hesitant to mention at times how old my son is and/or what he's doing in school because I know what some others are likely to presume. With experience and education that's becoming less and less the case though. :)

Sometimes it is better to leave the age off of the sig and out of the post, huh?;)

[Classically Minded]

Just read through the replies and wanted to say thank you for all those who replied.

 

We did lesson 2 today in FLL and I had only read the poem once (The Caterpillar) and my daughter already knew what she was going to draw - she drew a fuzzy brown caterpillar under a leaf then had him spinning and a spot where she said he died lol. Then she had a butterfly. She is to the level where she can memorize and listen well.

 

We repeated the poem several times and I recorded it on a tape and she is going to listen to it tonight. She already wants to try it by herself but I told her to give it a day and then practice in front of her stuffed animals (like suggested in the FLL).

 

Today's experience was a lot better and hey......if we finish the 1st level of FLL, we could always do it again if I feel she needs to. I think that is the great part of being 'ahead'....we can redo it all over if we want! I'm in no rush, actually I feel like if she gets stuck at something, we can take a week on it if we want because there is no hurry.

 

I also wanted to say that it is fact that some children mature faster than others. Just like at our society today and you will see 20 year old's who are on a maturity level much higher than some of their peers. I'm not sure if height has anything to do with it, but my daughter is 48 inches tall and towers over the other girls/boys her age here. She has normally played with kids 1-2 yrs older than her because that is where she 'fits' in mentally. I go at her pace and her pace is fast right now and if it slows down later.......we will simply slow down. Time is on our side. :thumbup:

So that is why we chose the 1st grade 'level' of curriculum. I guess you could say she is on a K level in reading right now but it might just click soon and she might zoom :auto: through and jump ahead a few levels in no time.

 

Kids are all different and there is no one little box we should fit them into.....after all, that is what public schools do and as homeschoolers, aren't we moving away from that mentality of "one size fits all"? :thumbup1:

 

All that being said, my answer in the beginning was just about Grammar. What I received was a head spinning, :willy_nilly: WHOA! what is going on here discussion about acceleration lol. Everyone calm down, breath :chillpill:.......we can all get along :smash: and support another without pushing our 'ways' on them, right? I respect that others here may differ in their view of how to do things but I also ask that mine be respected. Thank you again and I hope this place can be one I can look forward to coming to and enjoying the interaction with others. :grouphug:

 

Ok I have to confess, I just replied so I could use the smilies hehe. :smilielol5:

[abbeyej]

Wow. I really think you misunderstood what many of us said.

 

I actually have no objections to acceleration or high standards. Both of my kids are accelerated, one pretty significantly.

 

But the story you initially presented was not of a child who was *ready* for the material you were giving her. *That*'s why many of us questioned calling her a first grader -- because she appeared to be struggling with the material, and not developmentally ready for it. It had nothing to do with "public school mentality" or an assumption that 3yos can't learn to read or 9yos do algebra or 10yos read the Gallic Wars in Latin.

 

I'm sorry to have offended you. That was certainly never my intent. On the other hand, you asked for advice from other home schooling parents, and many of us gave it. Certainly the many and varied responses you received should be considered a warm welcome.

[Classically Minded]

No one offended me and I never said they did, sorry you viewed it that way. Actually my most recent reply was a bit lighthearted.

 

She isn't supposed to understand a noun the first time it is read to her - even the book says that and I found that out, so really there is no question whether she is ready. So we can erase that entirely.

 

Thank you and I'm not at all offended, just humored by the responses. ;)

 

Wow. I really think you misunderstood what many of us said.

 

I actually have no objections to acceleration or high standards. Both of my kids are accelerated, one pretty significantly.

 

But the story you initially presented was not of a child who was *ready* for the material you were giving her. *That*'s why many of us questioned calling her a first grader -- because she appeared to be struggling with the material, and not developmentally ready for it. It had nothing to do with "public school mentality" or an assumption that 3yos can't learn to read or 9yos do algebra or 10yos read the Gallic Wars in Latin.

 

I'm sorry to have offended you. That was certainly never my intent. On the other hand, you asked for advice from other home schooling parents, and many of us gave it. Certainly the many and varied responses you received should be considered a warm welcome.

[Lovedtodeath]

I just feel the need to point out that the board goes through this every couple of months. Mom says child is advanced or ready, board says don't do it, Mom gets all bent out of shape for a while, or just decides to ignore the board, then later, decides that the board's advice was correct. See the following:

Originally Posted by mom2denj

I was just curious about why you do not want to use Sonlight again? I was thinking about using HOD until my dd is 6 and then using Sonlight K for 1st grade. I am just collecting opinions about Sonlight.

 

 

 

That's a good question. The reason is that I should have waited and done SL K with my daughter this year or even the following year. Instead, I was using it as a preschool program, and that was a huge mistake. I might very well return to SL when my daughter would be ready for the next level (Sonlight 1? maybe in 2nd grade?). But for now, I've already done what I could in the program with a 4/young 5 year old and it just did not work out for her. The LA was fine, but it was many of the other parts for which she was not entirely ready.

 

HTH! :)

[~Kirsten~]

It does sound like you've answered your own question, so at the risk of continuing a conversation that you no longer want to have and that should just drop, I'll answer anyway. :001_smile:

 

I don't think your daughter needs to grasp what a noun is from the first lesson. There's a lot of repetition built into FLL, and, it seems to me, a big part of the point is to memorize the definitions as hooks for later knowledge. But, and to me this is really a bit "but," SWB does not recommend beginning FLL until you're farther along in OPGTR. So for me, personally (with the disclaimer that you may find something else works for you), I wouldn't focus on FLL until reading was fluent. Again, just to me, I would want to spend that time pounding out the phonics and pushing (and pushing is probably the wrong word, but you get my drift) my daughter to make that leap to fluency.

 

It's working, and I don't think you necessarily need to stop, as evidenced by the fact that your daughter had fun with the poem and the illustration. But (please hear this in a very gentle tone), you don't have to do FLL to have her doing memorization.

 

I know, I know. People have been over and over this ground. But I say this with a 5-year-old who is doing FLL (and spelling, too, which is also unpopular). However, we've finished OPGTR, and I just didn't know what else to do with her for language arts for a year until she's officially 1st grade. Of course, I'm not a big fan of lengthy seat work at this age, so for me, if I had to choose, it would definitely be spent doing just math and phonics until we were done with phonics. All that is just my two cents. Feel free to disregard, and most importantly, enjoy your journey. :001_smile:

[Pamela H in Texas]

JFWIW, I'm obviously not against acceleration or giving a student what they need. There is a reason I knew my 3yo was at a 4th grade level and at a high school level by 7. I'm not against letting them take their time and giving them what they need either. I had a child several years "behind" who didn't catch up til about 13 yrs old, doing just fine. I BELIEVE in giving children what they need. I do not believe in pushing or holding a child back. That has nothing to do with what level they are working, but what experience they are given, imo.

 

I read your situation differently than either of the scenarios above. Maybe you are mis-stating? Maybe I'm mis-reading?

 

It doesn't matter. You'll do as you please with your child and have every right to do so. I hope it works out beautifully for y'all. And I hope you choose to tweak or overhaul if it doesn't.

[chaik76]

Honestly I don't start FLL 1 until 2nd grade so I don't have those types of problems.

 

You can just move on, they don't have to get it. You will have a TON of repeat in the book. The biggest point is to memorize the grammar definitions and the child's address/phone number, days of the weeks and months. They don't have to understand it right now.

 

Heather

This is what I do, too. We are going through the book a bit faster (since my son has a great grasp of nouns and a lot of the lessons ARE on nouns!), but we waited until 2nd grade to start.

[chaik76]

Just a note. Many of the poems in FLL are not the original versions. Many of us choose to use the original instead of the adapted ones in FLL.

We do this too...my son did not like the adapted versions at all.

[~Kirsten~]

Just a note. Many of the poems in FLL are not the original versions. Many of us choose to use the original instead of the adapted ones in FLL.

 

Ooooh, thank you for the reminder! I had heard this before, but I totally forgot. We're still right at the beginning, so it isn't a problem yet, but that would have driven me batty later! :D

 

ETA: Yeah, it's already too late for "The Caterpillar," but I suppose we'll live! I can't believe I didn't realize it right away! Argh!

[Pamela H in Texas]

Thank you for the info about the poems. Too late for us about The Caterpillar also though Goo is now saying he likes the real one better. Well, we probably do have time. Poems don't change til lesson 15. I think we're on 9. He can definitely learn in a poem, esp one he knows most of, in 2 weeks.

[Classically Minded]

Thank you, I had noticed it said adapted. I wonder what her reasoning is as to why she doesn't use the originals? Does anyone here know?

 

Just a note. Many of the poems in FLL are not the original versions. Many of us choose to use the original instead of the adapted ones in FLL.

[Classically Minded]

Thank you for letting me know. I'm not above learning and taking this one day at a time right now. I'm not all bent out of shape and not ignoring the board yet lol. But thanks for the example.

 

I just feel the need to point out that the board goes through this every couple of months. Mom says child is advanced or ready, board says don't do it, Mom gets all bent out of shape for a while, or just decides to ignore the board, then later, decides that the board's advice was correct. See the following:

[Classically Minded]

Thank you for your kind words, I honestly appreciate it. I will most definitely tweak and overhaul if need be. Thanks for sharing your insight.

 

I hope it works out beautifully for y'all. And I hope you choose to tweak or overhaul if it doesn't.

[HSmom25andRN]

I would suggest going at whatever pace your child can comfortably and contently handle at this point. I agree with some others that it is important to know that you may have to slow down later (at least in certain subjects). Also, she won't be "behind" in second grade if she hasn't completed FLL1 because it is not a race! I found that out the hard way also and I thought I was doing something wrong. Now I know that all of my children learned at their own speed which was not a constant speed, but more like a roller coaster. Sometimes we'd be flying through material and other times we would be struggling uphill. That's just how it is (at least with my oldest 3!) Good luck!

[sewinglady]

Hi and welcome! I started my dd on FLL when she was 5 1/2. We did one or two lessons per week. She enjoyed the memory work, (we use the the poems from the book). Now we are cruising along and doing 3-4 lessons per week.

 

Honestly, she could care less about nouns or pronouns . But she will repeat the definitions and do the copywork with ease. I love using FLL. What I like best is that there is built in review at the beginning of most lessons. So if you do take it fast or slow your child is given time to learn and memorize the concepts without a ton of busywork.

 

After over six months my dd can still repeat the poem The Caterpillar (oh and the definition of a noun, too).